Saints 0 Watford 2 - Match & Meltdown

[redder freak]

I think it's our fault. Getting the manager sacked. Dissing the players. Karma!

[Donatello]

Wasn't there, but read about some booing. That needs to stop. You can't vent frustrations you had from a previous regime on a new one (5 games). Booing a manager 5 games in is ridiculous, and far from helpful. Anyway.

 

Any reason why Lemina didn't start yesterday? Was it covered in a press conference? I'm guessing MP decided to play more 'attacking' players (Davis/JWP) in the hope of scoring, which makes sense to a point, but I've also read that we were completely overrun in midfield - which is likely always going to be the case if you play one of Davis/JWP in a two man central midfield. Hopefully he'll have realised how apparent it is that a Romeu-Lemina is a necessity. I've also read that Rom had a poor game, as he had in the previous game, which is concerning given how consistent he was last year...so if he hasn't already done so, he needs to shave his head.

[tajjuk]

Seems to be a good idea to stay away from here for a few weeks, the over reactions going on are retarded. If we are still putting out these sort of performances in November then I'll worry but reactions and writing of our players after 4 games, especially after an international break is just silly.

[whelk]

Can’t remember leaving game thinking so hopeless. I wasn’t as depressed as others last season but that was dire. Can’t think of one positive. Ok maybe Hoedt looked ok.

How many touches did Gabbi have?

[Lighthouse]

I think it's our fault. Getting the manager sacked. Dissing the players. Karma!

 

You have an odd outlook on the situation.

[doddisalegend]

Seems to be a good idea to stay away from here for a few weeks, the over reactions going on are retarded. If we are still putting out these sort of performances in November then I'll worry but reactions and writing of our players after 4 games, especially after an international break is just silly.

 

 

It's not four games though. These kind of performances (well maybe not quite as bad yesterday) were a feature of the end of last season, pre season and our cup run (of one whole game). If yesterday was a one off it would be an over reaction but these sort of performances have become the normal now.

[hypochondriac]

Seems to be a good idea to stay away from here for a few weeks, the over reactions going on are retarded. If we are still putting out these sort of performances in November then I'll worry but reactions and writing of our players after 4 games, especially after an international break is just silly.

It's hardly an overreaction when you look at how many few goals we have scored at home this year. It's a real problem.

[Micky]

Having had time to sleep on it without posting or venting, and being a happy clapper, I'm going to put this one down to a bad day at the office. We were dire from start to finish and Watford deservedly won - not that it was much of a contest though. Our midfield was absolutely shocking for the full 90 minutes and Watford had the freedom of St Marys, we hardly won a tackle - they were much bigger and much more physical and wiped the floor with us.

 

I'm a JWP fan, but yesterday he was a passenger and really never got going at all and just seemed to cut a frustrated figure, it was no surprise that he never reappeared for the second half. That said though, what on earth is Boufal meant to be bringing to the game, he can't track, can't tackle and can't block - my granny would walk straight through him. He is meant to bring skill and creativity - but it's all too sporadic - absolute waste of a shirt. As for Redmond and Tadic - again all to lightweight, which is ok if you can deliver consistent telling passes or balls into the box, which I don't think we did all afternoon. Thought Davis and Romelu tried hard but neither had good games - why oh why was Lemina left out, had he been out there it's arguable that we may have covered both the shots that led to goals and come away with a point and much undeserved home draw.

 

Gabbi tried to work hard up front but really just isn't getting any service and fair play to him that he keeps going. Oh for the days when we had Pelle who was great at holding up, or laying it off, or more crucially scoring. Long tried hard when he came on, chased down lost causes and tried to stretch them but by then it was pretty much game over. As for Austin, I'm sorry but I just don't get it - he maybe a great finisher, but we don't have the players to serve him. Outside of that he looks cumbersome, slow and awkward - looked awful yesterday.

 

Fraser - doesn't inspire confidence at all in any way shape or form, needs to be rested / dropped.

 

I personally didn't hear any booing during the game (there was at the end), but the players hopefully noted the sarcastic cheers, when on 92 minutes we eventually managed a strike on goal - (which the goalkeeper easily saved tbf), but that will have told them what the majority thought of that performance.

 

As I said - being a happy clapper - I'm going for a bad day at the office (more in hope than anything else), because if that's the level of performance that we are going to produce over the course of the season, we will be down by Christmas. It's no good saying we should have bought this player or that player, we have what we have, and it's up to the manager to sort it out and get this squad performing.

 

Oh and while we're on the 'fans mileage meter' - 392 miles round trip for that. Not happy.

[beatlesaint]

Booing a performance rather than individuals.....what's wrong with that ? Don't buy this "oh no, you can't boo, it's wrong, you should support the team" is ******** when you have sat through 90 mins - 180 mins if you were at the Wolves game - of the most turgid, clueless load of crap from professional footballers.

 

The booing when MP took off Gabby at 2-0 down instead of giving him help was correct as well. MP got that wrong without question.

[Heisenberg]

Seems to be a good idea to stay away from here for a few weeks, the over reactions going on are retarded. If we are still putting out these sort of performances in November then I'll worry but reactions and writing of our players after 4 games, especially after an international break is just silly.

 

Is that a copy paste from the Puel out thread or when people quite quickly doubted the ability of Ramirez, Classie, Redmond, Hojberg or Boufal?

 

It amazes me how you can tell nothing from 5-6 games but incredibly we seem to have a knack of calling it time n time again.

 

#spooky

[Badger]

Wasn't there, but read about some booing. That needs to stop. You can't vent frustrations you had from a previous regime on a new one (5 games). Booing a manager 5 games in is ridiculous, and far from helpful. Anyway.

 

.

 

Seem to recall similar being written whilst we laboured under Steve Wigley from September through to end November in 2004.

[Shroppie]

Did Lemina do a lot of traveling last week? Maybe why he was rested.

 

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[Shroppie]

Having had time to sleep on it without posting or venting, and being a happy clapper, I'm going to put this one down to a bad day at the office. We were dire from start to finish and Watford deservedly won - not that it was much of a contest though. Our midfield was absolutely shocking for the full 90 minutes and Watford had the freedom of St Marys, we hardly won a tackle - they were much bigger and much more physical and wiped the floor with us.

 

I'm a JWP fan, but yesterday he was a passenger and really never got going at all and just seemed to cut a frustrated figure, it was no surprise that he never reappeared for the second half. That said though, what on earth is Boufal meant to be bringing to the game, he can't track, can't tackle and can't block - my granny would walk straight through him. He is meant to bring skill and creativity - but it's all too sporadic - absolute waste of a shirt. As for Redmond and Tadic - again all to lightweight, which is ok if you can deliver consistent telling passes or balls into the box, which I don't think we did all afternoon. Thought Davis and Romelu tried hard but neither had good games - why oh why was Lemina left out, had he been out there it's arguable that we may have covered both the shots that led to goals and come away with a point and much undeserved home draw.

 

Gabbi tried to work hard up front but really just isn't getting any service and fair play to him that he keeps going. Oh for the days when we had Pelle who was great at holding up, or laying it off, or more crucially scoring. Long tried hard when he came on, chased down lost causes and tried to stretch them but by then it was pretty much game over. As for Austin, I'm sorry but I just don't get it - he maybe a great finisher, but we don't have the players to serve him. Outside of that he looks cumbersome, slow and awkward - looked awful yesterday.

 

Fraser - doesn't inspire confidence at all in any way shape or form, needs to be rested / dropped.

 

I personally didn't hear any booing during the game (there was at the end), but the players hopefully noted the sarcastic cheers, when on 92 minutes we eventually managed a strike on goal - (which the goalkeeper easily saved tbf), but that will have told them what the majority thought of that performance.

 

As I said - being a happy clapper - I'm going for a bad day at the office (more in hope than anything else), because if that's the level of performance that we are going to produce over the course of the season, we will be down by Christmas. It's no good saying we should have bought this player or that player, we have what we have, and it's up to the manager to sort it out and get this squad performing.

 

Oh and while we're on the 'fans mileage meter' - 392 miles round trip for that. Not happy.

Agree almost entirely. In fact I posted pretty well the same a couple of pages back and glad to see another reasoned post agreeing.

 

And I'll see your 392 miles and raise you to 408. [emoji6]

 

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[tobes8]

Pellegrino on borrowed time and under serious pressure now to show he has the ability to bring anything new to the team to reverse the regression under Puel. His failure to change the system and play at least 2 up front is the first worry. The second is that the players seem to have even less idea of how to play in Claude's system than they did last year. Because it IS still Claude's system. Pellegrino needs to change it - at the moment he is showing signs of being as stubborn as Puel. Good luck with that.

 

Reed should be on borrowed time....

[stknowle]

Didn't post last night as was drowning sorrows.

 

In the cold, sober, light of day.....

 

Firstly, Watford were good. Stronger than us, sharper than us, better organised than us, more committed than us. They deserved it. And it asks a lot of questions of MP.

 

On our individual performances:

 

Forster - hesitant, taking no pressure off the defence, probably should have saved at least the second. He now seems even more reluctant to come for high balls. Time for him to be rested.

 

I thought the back four all had decent games. Good start for Hoedt, didn't do much wrong. Stephens made some important tackles and interceptions and I wonder if he can convert to DM. Cedric and Bertrand got forward, with little support inside.

 

Romeu - not his greatest game, but it was hard work for him as Davis looked tired and ineffective and provided little support. Neither of them were close to getting in a block for either goal - in fact JWP was closest to getting in the way of the first. They struggled against a strong midfield to get hold of the ball and retain it, let alone distribute effectively. Hopefully Lemina will improve things - I was hoping he'd come on at half time.

 

JWP also was largely anonymous. I'm normally prepared to defend him, bit without supply he didn't work to get the ball.

 

But the huge problems were Boufal and Redmond. They both seem to be playing for their own glory, not the team. Boufal in particular runs into dead ends, doesn't get his head up to look for a pass. His teammates noticeably don't seem able to anticipate what he's going to do, and look like they're not expecting a pass. His one good moment, when he got to the byline was spoilt when he then blindly cut the ball back too deep, behind Gabbiadini. He was also very weak in challenges. When Hoedt headed the ball out just before their second goal, when it dropped, Boufal was brushed out of the way like he didn't exist, then made no effort to recover. And I'm not convinced game time will improve him.

 

Much of that also applies to Redmond, except that he has less skill. He frequently lost the ball and when the deflected shot fell to him near the end he blasted it into the side netting when Tadic and Gabbiadini were both unmarked six yards out. He just didn't look. He is a very average player who for some reason keeps getting picked.

 

Gabbiadini looks very dispirited, and I'm not surprised. No service and he's not a natural target man, so that won't work, especially with no movement around him. In his early games he looked sharp, with really good movement pulling defenders all over the place. I'm worried that he now looks slow and disinterested.

 

Of the subs, Tadic improved things, but he still has awful moments. For example, ignoring a chance to shoot, turning hopeless circles then falling down embarrassingly. Sorry, but I don't think Austin added any threat. Long, on the other hand, immediately brought some energy and a different problem, epitomised by chasing down a lost cause and winning a free kick. I accept his finishing frailty, but he brings pace.

 

One major problem is that we have Cedric and Bertrand getting forward on the wings, but Redmond and Boufal are mainly trying to occupy that same space, but less effectively. We have zero threat through the middle.

 

Whether the solution is a change of formation, for example to 3-5-2 or 3-4-3, or a fundamental change in the personnel, what is clear is you can't just keep on doing the same things and hoping that, miraculously, it'll start working.

 

I'd like to see a front four of Tadic, Davis, Long and Gabbiadini next week, but that will no doubt be ridiculed. But Boufal and Redmond need to know they need to make far more of a team contribution.

 

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Good summary, especially the bit about Redmond and Boufal both being sh!t.

[Lord Duckhunter]

I wasn't convinced he was the answer, but on yesterday's showing he certainly had a team set up, and players knowing their role and performing efficiently as a team. Compared to our shambles.

 

If you were a Boscombe supporter or West Ham you'd have said the same after their home games against Puel's side last season.

 

 

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[VectisSaint]

Did Lemina do a lot of traveling last week? Maybe why he was rested.

 

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Played 90 minutes in Gabon last Saturday and 76 minutes in the Ivory Coast on Tuesday. Don't know much about flights to/from Gabon to the UK, but he didn't get back until Friday, so expect they were not direct flights. At least there would not have been much jet lag with both countries on similar time zones to the UK (+1 hour for Gabon). Probably had to fly via France. Clocked up a fair few air miles, though not as many as Yoshida, who was also rested of course.

[Dalek2003]

No we haven't. Like him or loath him, Puels side played with a style. They were coached properly, there was a pattern to the play even if you didn't like the particular pattern. Puel sent his side out to play in a certain way & they played that way. Today was just a mess, no pattern, no structure. It was as if the manager picked the positions and players just went out and played in them. There was absolutely no coherent pattern at all. Shocking

 

 

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Agreed.

[Saint Billy]

Seems to be a good idea to stay away from here for a few weeks, the over reactions going on are retarded. If we are still putting out these sort of performances in November then I'll worry but reactions and writing of our players after 4 games, especially after an international break is just silly.

 

This all started last season so its nothing new.

[LGTL]

Lemina played for Gabon during the week which was why he didn't start. He'll clearly be first choice usually. Jesus, I'd be first choice in that midfield.

[Disco Stu]

https://mobile.twitter.com/FootyHumour/status/850311334323519488/video/1

 

Saw this in the Watford forum. Just goes to show these pundits are clueless (excluding Le Tissier who actually spoke sense). They couldn't even give more than one English manager's name.

[derry]

so don't play most of the midfield, play three strikers and a load of CBs and DMs seems balanced..

 

Yes, try something different. What we are doing, recycling three or four of those five week after week isn't working and won't work. We didn't have any blend or balance. What we have got is a lot of midfielders with no goals, no pace, no strength, easily bullied and incapable of winning matches. Nine games out of the last eleven failed to score and don't look like scoring.

 

Lemina has been put forward by the manager as a box to box midfielder whilst Hojbjerg hasn't been given a chance. As for a load of centre backs and holding midfielders, VVD and Hoedt who Reed says has been bought to play alongside VVD are the only two centre backs mentioned and Romeu is the only specialist holding midfielder.

 

If we don't come up with regular goals and playing four of those five won't get them, we are going to lose a lot of games against any team that manages to score against us unless we get our goal scorers onto the pitch together. It's no good throwing Long and Austin on in desperation and taking Gabbiadini off and expecting them to save or win the game with fifteen minutes left.

[Micky]

Agree almost entirely. In fact I posted pretty well the same a couple of pages back and glad to see another reasoned post agreeing.

 

And I'll see your 392 miles and raise you to 408. [emoji6]

 

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Well in that case somebody's 'Fans Mile O'meter' is knackered because I live 9 miles north of Wem - so either way I win...!!!

[Shroppie]

Well in that case somebody's 'Fans Mile O'meter' is knackered because I live 9 miles north of Wem - so either way I win...!!!

I went the long way round. [emoji6] (And I confess, by train)

 

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[OldNick]

It must have been you that wrote the summary of the pre-match GK ritual last season drawing attention to Watson's constant preening of his locks.

 

Most telling thing is probably who Koeman didn't want to take with him, Dave Watson, FF, & JWP. Christ, he even signed Martina again.

 

Strange how Steklenburg looked an inspired GK last season at the Everton.

Yes it was me. IMO none of our keepers have improved under his watch.

FF is a monster and surely he should have been coached to dominate his area.

Again as I posted earlier he sets himself a few feet from his line, he should be coached to stand a few feet further out to increase the arc of his reach covered

[tajjuk]

Is that a copy paste from the Puel out thread or when people quite quickly doubted the ability of Ramirez, Classie, Redmond, Hojberg or Boufal?

 

It amazes me how you can tell nothing from 5-6 games but incredibly we seem to have a knack of calling it time n time again.

 

#spooky

 

You couldn't call bingo numbers. Please don't pretend like you have some sort ability to read stuff or actual knowledge of what you are talking about. Stick to being the troll you are, you are actually good at that.

 

It's not four games though. These kind of performances (well maybe not quite as bad yesterday) were a feature of the end of last season, pre season and our cup run (of one whole game). If yesterday was a one off it would be an over reaction but these sort of performances have become the normal now.

 

It's hardly an overreaction when you look at how many few goals we have scored at home this year. It's a real problem.

 

No sorry it's an over reaction, it's a new manager, we have some new players, he needs time. Yesterday was not great but the panic and doom n gloom here is completely over the top, we were good first game of the season but missed a load of chances. Good against West Ham in patches, average but solid against Huddersfield and poor here.

 

Exactly what I'd expect from a team under a new manager, inconsistency.

 

We also have 1 point more than Everton, 1 less than Arsenal, 2 less than Spurs and Liverpool. It's the start of the season, too early to tell anything yet. People were predicting we would go down when we had that terrible run under Koeman, things can change very quickly.

Edited 10 September, 2017 by tajjuk

[Rory Peepa]

Is it just me or does he never even make it to the posts? He seems to just fall to the side rather than push off towards the bottom corners. It's not even a case of him not making it in time because he doesn't even make the distance to stop it if its aimed in the bottom corner. I just don't get it...

 

To be fair I thought he could've done better on first one but to seeing back from proper angle they were just two outstanding strikes. Agree he seems hesitant but I don't think he needs blaming again. Was a woeful performance from the front 6 players especially. We are ripe for being bullied against the bigger, more athletic teams. I fear for the Man U game.

 

 

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[Lord Duckhunter]

You couldn't call bingo numbers. Please don't pretend like you have some sort ability to read stuff or actual knowledge of what you are talking about. Stick to being the troll you are, you are actually good at that.

 

 

 

 

 

No sorry it's an over reaction, it's a new manager, we have some new players, he needs time. Yesterday was not great but the panic and doom n gloom here is completely over the top, we were good first game of the season but missed a load of chances. Good against West Ham in patches, average but solid against Huddersfield and poor here.

 

Exactly what I'd expect from a team under a new manager, inconsistency.

 

We also have 1 point more than Everton, 1 less than Arsenal, 2 less than Spurs and Liverpool. It's the start of the season, too early to tell anything yet. People were predicting we would go down when we had that terrible run under Koeman, things can change very quickly.

 

We've played games against Swansea,West Ham, Wolves reserves, Huddersfield & Watford, 4 of which we were at home. We've scored against 11 men once , and won our only game by an injury time peno. We have had by far and away the easiest start of any team in the league. The sides you've listed have played other top sides, had Spurs Liverpool, Everton or Arsenal had the fixtures we'd had they'd be sitting top of the league.

 

 

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[Rory Peepa]

Wasn't there, but read about some booing. That needs to stop. You can't vent frustrations you had from a previous regime on a new one (5 games). Booing a manager 5 games in is ridiculous, and far from helpful. Anyway.

 

Any reason why Lemina didn't start yesterday? Was it covered in a press conference? I'm guessing MP decided to play more 'attacking' players (Davis/JWP) in the hope of scoring, which makes sense to a point, but I've also read that we were completely overrun in midfield - which is likely always going to be the case if you play one of Davis/JWP in a two man central midfield. Hopefully he'll have realised how apparent it is that a Romeu-Lemina is a necessity. I've also read that Rom had a poor game, as he had in the previous game, which is concerning given how consistent he was last year...so if he hasn't already done so, he needs to shave his head.

 

Plus 1. Booing your own team is an utter disgrace and is embarrassing. It's partly a lack of confidence (e.g. Romeu's air shot) and booing ain't going to help one bit. Morons.

 

 

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[doddisalegend]

 

No sorry it's an over reaction, it's a new manager, we have some new players, he needs time. Yesterday was not great but the panic and doom n gloom here is completely over the top, we were good first game of the season but missed a load of chances. Good against West Ham in patches, average but solid against Huddersfield and poor here.

 

Exactly what I'd expect from a team under a new manager, inconsistency.

 

.

 

I think we've been pretty consistent so far 1 goal from open play in 5 games is pretty consistent.

[saint1977]

Having had time to sleep on it without posting or venting, and being a happy clapper, I'm going to put this one down to a bad day at the office. We were dire from start to finish and Watford deservedly won - not that it was much of a contest though. Our midfield was absolutely shocking for the full 90 minutes and Watford had the freedom of St Marys, we hardly won a tackle - they were much bigger and much more physical and wiped the floor with us.

 

I'm a JWP fan, but yesterday he was a passenger and really never got going at all and just seemed to cut a frustrated figure, it was no surprise that he never reappeared for the second half. That said though, what on earth is Boufal meant to be bringing to the game, he can't track, can't tackle and can't block - my granny would walk straight through him. He is meant to bring skill and creativity - but it's all too sporadic - absolute waste of a shirt. As for Redmond and Tadic - again all to lightweight, which is ok if you can deliver consistent telling passes or balls into the box, which I don't think we did all afternoon. Thought Davis and Romelu tried hard but neither had good games - why oh why was Lemina left out, had he been out there it's arguable that we may have covered both the shots that led to goals and come away with a point and much undeserved home draw.

 

Gabbi tried to work hard up front but really just isn't getting any service and fair play to him that he keeps going. Oh for the days when we had Pelle who was great at holding up, or laying it off, or more crucially scoring. Long tried hard when he came on, chased down lost causes and tried to stretch them but by then it was pretty much game over. As for Austin, I'm sorry but I just don't get it - he maybe a great finisher, but we don't have the players to serve him. Outside of that he looks cumbersome, slow and awkward - looked awful yesterday.

 

Fraser - doesn't inspire confidence at all in any way shape or form, needs to be rested / dropped.

 

I personally didn't hear any booing during the game (there was at the end), but the players hopefully noted the sarcastic cheers, when on 92 minutes we eventually managed a strike on goal - (which the goalkeeper easily saved tbf), but that will have told them what the majority thought of that performance.

 

As I said - being a happy clapper - I'm going for a bad day at the office (more in hope than anything else), because if that's the level of performance that we are going to produce over the course of the season, we will be down by Christmas. It's no good saying we should have bought this player or that player, we have what we have, and it's up to the manager to sort it out and get this squad performing.

 

Oh and while we're on the 'fans mileage meter' - 392 miles round trip for that. Not happy.

 

Can't quite match yours or Shroppie's mileage but travelled from South Devon and was a long enough trip.

 

Would very much agree with your summary overall. Re: Boufal wasn't great but did at least commit players a couple of times. I'm not sure if Reed and Wilson peed £16m up the wall or whether he's being played well out of position. Would have thought if MP is going to play him he needs a free central role in behind the strikers. Tadic isn't suited to that role so has to be worth a try if MP won't play 2 strikers.

 

It summed the display up when Boufal skied his shot and the Northam sang 'we've had a shot!'. Need a very busy Jan window with 4 or 5 players - especially the midfield deadwood - being sold/loaned out to make room for a a couple of quality AMC/Rs. What has PEH done? His face will be on milk cartons soon and if he's in worse form than JWP he ought to retire to find something he's good at.

 

My ratings:

 

Forster 5: Thought some of the criticism was harsh for the second goal which Janmaat nailed and right into the corner. First one was partially obscured by someone getting up for an early HT pie but looked a touch slow to get down but again, strike was in the corner.

Cedric 7 - Along with Jack, our best player. Defended well and one of the few players to actually make runs and make Watford work

Bertrand 6 - Faded last 30 but decent hour

Stephens 7 - The best along with Cedric. Lost my rag in the first half when Jack must have carried the ball 40-50 yards and only Gabi was moving. Redmond was just watching.

Hoedt 6 - Hard to judge - didn't do anything obviously wrong but would have liked more presence in the air

Romeu 4 - Mr Reliable had an off day

Davis 4 - Lacked his usual spark and internationals took it out of him

JWP 2 - MP didn't help James with his tactics but at least try and compete eh? Running and working would be a start. Needs a couple of seasons on loan in the Championship (or sell him) - lacks the game knowledge and robustness of someone like Jack who was player of the season at Swindon. MLG will post his usual tripe about JWP having played 100+ games in the PL but he's so wrong. How many of those games has he actually influenced/run? That's what counts.

Boufal 4 - Is he just terrible or terribly out of position? You decide.

Redmond 2 - Almost forgot to include him as he made so little impact. Doesn't use his only asset - pace - by continually cutting in and I've seen players for Exeter and Torquay with more awareness. Doesn't move or give options to his team-mates - can understand why Bertrand was sick of him.

Gabi 6 - What can you do with that lack of service? MP got deserved stick for taking him off and a Puel-like refusal to change a system whoch doesn't work.

 

Tadic 5 - 10 bright minutes when played on the LEFT and then faded into fake injuries and not giving a toss like most of the others

Austin 4 - Didn't look fit and needs service which we refuse to give our strikers

Long 6 - At least made runs and space for others. With Shane you know you are getting 100% at least, despite his limitations. Shane is many things but not lazy, wish his work-rate would spread.

 

The person sitting next to me said before KO we'd get mullered as their squad was so much stronger and mobile-looking than ours. Lemina will improve matters when he comes back and Hoedt should do OK but the previous 3 windows were such a disaster they will take another 3 to repair.

 

JWP - bulk up, hone your dead balls or go. Redmond - another to sell to free up space unless he suddenly develops a hint of a football brain. PEH - play or sell. Boufal - play as 10 behind striker or sell/loan. Tadic - sell.

[captainchris]

Let's get one thing straight.

Everything is very suspiciously almost exactly the same as was under Puel.

Tadic still taking pens - who on earth would continue with that knowing he is totally useless at them? Literally everyone knows Tadic cannot play on the right but that still persists? Foster is at least due to be benched - plays crap yet still answers to nobody it seems etc etc etc.....

Only Black could have influenced a continuance of this rediculous repeating of exactly the same mysterious decisions....

We have problems but Crikey why keep on doing the same things that do not work and we knew didn't work last year...

Black has a lot to answer for and should walk !

[saint1977]

Let's get one thing straight.

Everything is very suspiciously almost exactly the same as was under Puel.

Tadic still taking pens - who on earth would continue with that knowing he is totally useless at them? Literally everyone knows Tadic cannot play on the right but that still persists? Foster is at least due to be benched - plays crap yet still answers to nobody it seems etc etc etc.....

Only Black could have influenced a continuance of this rediculous repeating of exactly the same mysterious decisions....

We have problems but Crikey why keep on doing the same things that do not work and we knew didn't work last year...

Black has a lot to answer for and should walk !

 

Is it Eric or further up though? JWP should have been loaned out to the Championship 2 years ago - 3 managers have played and dropped him. You have to ask why. Where is PEH?

[Dangermouth]

I see no reason to expect inconsistency at any time apart from with a younger player learning the game at the top level or when starting out professionally. I do expect to beat the poor teams that we've faced with the exception of Huddersfield as anyone who watched them last season would know they play at a very high speed, etc and that levels the playing field somewhat.

 

Much as I like Pellegrino the things that are of concern are that he seems somewhat like a rabbit in headlights, he seems to have the knack of swapping player for player rather than doing this to change the setup, there is an over-reliance on Football Manager tactics (from everyone) in that people seem to think 4231>433 without taking into account personnel, etc, he continues to play Redmond and Tadic, he does need to keep a settled team or they themselves with play like they don't have a clue, there is some concern about Black because his record at clubs is worrying: they never seem to do well and he's the only obvious common denominator, the team have been quite woeful in many aspects and if we continue to play as we have done while I think we'll scrape 15-17th this season next season we're in the crapper if the new managing owners and board and coaches and everyone else don't pull their finger out. I think they'll either remain complacent or start to panic and make bad decisions in either case and it was probably not a good idea to promote the people that have been promoted e.g. LR rather than looking sensibly at how to put something in place to reinvigorate the club.

 

So our concern is not like it was when we first came up and it was a case of we nearly beat Man U but lost to a Van Persie special but that we are now established, aspirational and look like the footballing equivalent of all those people who watched the meteors fall the night before in The Day of the Triffids and with little to no sign that anything actually is coming together. As for the mighty Swansea, how did they do against a team widely regarded as a lower-league standard of team today?

[StrangelyBrown]

Plus 1. Booing your own team is an utter disgrace and is embarrassing. It's partly a lack of confidence (e.g. Romeu's air shot) and booing ain't going to help one bit. Morons.

 

 

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I agree re booing, but clapping the players who came over to the stands after the final whistle is a mystery to me. I saw very little yesterday that deserved that applause.

[niceandfriendly]

Is it Eric or further up though? JWP should have been loaned out to the Championship 2 years ago - 3 managers have played and dropped him. You have to ask why. Where is PEH?

 

Championship? That's extremely optimistic.

[HKsaint]

We suffered 0-2 by two long range shots. Certainly, every team know "just shoot, whatever on target would be a goal". Our midfields was overrun by the opponent because we had only one DM. If Lemina was not available, we still have Hojbjerg. Why he was even not on the bench? Is he injured? Hojbjery could at least block one goal if he was there. Davis and JWP were at all pedestrains, could not tackle and could win the balls. The opponents had the freedom in the midfield to pass and shoot.

 

We have too many strikers who cannot shoot. Remond, Boufal and Tadic all believed that they are strikers and never passed the balls to Gabb or Austin, the real strikers. That is why all out shots were off target. OR they just pursued their own goals (to get pick up by big 6) at the expense of the team.

[Pilchards]

We suffered 0-2 by two long range shots. Certainly, every team know "just shoot, whatever on target would be a goal". Our midfields was overrun by the opponent because we had only one DM. If Lemina was not available, we still have Hojbjerg. Why he was even not on the bench? Is he injured? Hojbjery could at least block one goal if he was there. Davis and JWP were at all pedestrains, could not tackle and could win the balls. The opponents had the freedom in the midfield to pass and shoot.

 

We have too many strikers who cannot shoot. Remond, Boufal and Tadic all believed that they are strikers and never passed the balls to Gabb or Austin, the real strikers. That is why all out shots were off target. OR they just pursued their own goals (to get pick up by big 6) at the expense of the team.

 

 

You're right, we have too many bad eggs together that is killing the half decent ones that can play.

Are the management staff able to improve them on the training ground?

That lies the problem because I dont think they do.

[fanimal]

Monday morning still reeling at how inept that first half was, terrible, relegation fare. Davis is no good as a DM end of, so play round pegs in round holes Lemina or PEH. Then we must have two up front, give Long a chance he looks fit and mobile not like donkey Austin. Drop Redmond and Boufal just play anyone who is at least 5'11 tall as we were brushed aside Saturday, it was frightening.

[Dan Johnson]

Extremely disappointing display.

 

The manager stated that Watford were “fresher” it’s hard to argue with that assumption because of how lethargic we looked, Watford were everything we weren’t!

 

In possession, Watford moved the ball fast and broke quickly, in stark contrast to our dawdling stride. JWP, Davies & Romeu all guilty of taking multiple touches to move the ball forward (when on the rare occasions we actually played through the middle)

 

Too often defenders looked long, such was Watford dominance in midfield.

Last season we complained that the team was built in Puels mould “uninspiring, apathetic” just like his interviews, I think now we are seeing that it is deeper rooted. For me, Saturday highlighted why it was so important that we kept Van Dijk.

 

We’re lacking leaders on the pitch, we’re missing a player to push us forward, take the game by the scruff of the neck, give players who aren’t performing a bollocking. We’re too nice, weak, we need an edge which I think Van Dijk will give us.

 

Ratings:

 

Forster 5: Probably could have done better with the goals but you could say the same about the defenders\midfielders not running the Watford players down.

Cedric 6 – Didn’t do allot wrong, was pinned back by Watfords pressing most of the game, so didnt offer as much going forward as normal.

Bertrand 6 – Same as Cedric

Stephens 7 – Our best Player, defended well, guilty of over playing once or twice though.

Hoedt 6 – Average performance, not bad, not good.

Romeu 4 – Completely out played in the middle, diving in too often.

Davis 3 – looked knackered from the outset, was dominated in midfield.

JWP 3 – looks half the player that he did last season, so pedestrian in possession, takes excessive touches, needs to move the ball quicker.

Boufal 3 – On one or two occasions faced up to defenders got to the by line and looked dangerous, work rate is terrible though, looks to draw fouls and throw himself on the floor too often.

Redmond 3 – Played one or two good balls but lost the ball more times than I can count, trys to beat his man EVERYTIME, nearly every time he gets disposed! Like a rabbit in the headlights with possession and just runs aimlessly, needs to be dropped

Gabi 2 – Two maybe harsh, but he was in the game as much as I was!!! Not his fault, didn’t play to his strengths. He was made to run in behind after long balls, was not in the game AT ALL. Never ever looked dangerous.

 

Tadic 5 – Looked ok, then started to draw fouls and throw himself on the floor.

Austin 2 – Same as Gabi, chasing long balls, not in the game, not playing to his strengths.

Long 6 – Looked lively when he came on, with Watfords high pushing and our insistence on playing balls over the top because we couldn’t play through the middle, the game suited him with the space to run into. Would start him against Palace.

[mrfahaji]

After having the weekend to let the dust settle on this defeat, I'm still struggling to find any positives. Even at 2-0 down, if you nick a goal there's always a good chance of a frantic finish, but I said to my friend that I simply had no optimism of us getting a goal, we were that utterly awful.

 

Watford did a job on us. They were excellent and executed their gameplan to perfection. However, they didn't actually create that many chances. I can remember a goal mouth scramble in the second half, and when they hit on the break at 0-2, but it's telling that Watford were so much better than us yet somehow our defenders played "ok" - Hoedt and Stephens weren't obviously brilliant with heroic blocks, last ditch challenges and towering headers, but yet they also didn't do a lot wrong. Because Watford controlled the game without being all over us.

 

That's why it's so disappointing that we were so inept. When you lose 2-0 at home to Chelsea because, despite playing quite well, you're just not as good, you can accept it. Even last year against West Ham, when we lost 3-1, I remember people getting angry at the performance, yet we still created chances, played decently at times, always felt in with a chance, and were undone by a couple of long range shots. That wasn't the case against Watford. We had a 15 spell at the start of the second half when we improved, but then Silva changed it again and it went back to normal.

 

It feels pointless giving individual ratings. Although certain players were conspicuous by their absence, when your front SIX players all play badly (even Romeu), it suggests there's something worse afoot than just individuals having an off day. It's easy to criticise the attacking players because we don't score, and while I found Redmond's decision to shoot from an impossible angle rather than playing it across goal infuriating, I can't remember too many times where our attackers had the ball, had good options, and yet still did nothing with it. It didn't really surprise me that Boufal didn't play well, and that dropping Tadic didn't solve all our problems like many thought it would, because we could play Ronaldo up front and still wouldn't score. Persisting with Davis as DM is a strange one admittedly, and we've seen before that Davis and JWP rarely works as 2 of the 3 in the middle.

 

I don't think Shane Long should be our starting striker, and if he was a permanent fixture in our team all season I'd be concerned, but when we are struggling he at the very least puts defenders under pressure and can turn nothing into something with his pace. Taking off Gabbiadini may not have been a sound decision, but bringing on Long was.

 

As Lord Duckhunter alluded to earlier, Puel's side may have been boring to watch, but they stuck to a style of play. We don't even keep the ball well now. Too often we seemed to 'dink' it forward, around chest/head height to our forward line. It's not incisive, but it's not safe either. Gabbiadini, Boufal, Redmond, JWP, Tadic - one thing they have in common is that they can't hold the ball up for toffee, and aren't going to win 50-50 balls. So what do we do? Chip balls up to them at awkward heights to fight for. We also have no movement - Watford constantly sent two defenders to shut the man down, and yet we couldn't take advantage of the extra man/space behind them.

 

One final mention - I said earlier that you can't single out individuals after such an inept team performance, but once again we lost a game on account of two long range strikes that Forster couldn't get down to. They were decent hits, but Forster doesn't move his feet, and/or doesn't 'push off' his feet to get any distance. He basically falls down and reaches, he doesn't dive. I think Gomes would have saved both of those shots. For all our ineptitude outpitch, if we don't concede those goals so easily the game still could have worked out differently.

 

This was easily our worst performance of the season so far, but you can only write it off as a 'bad day at the office' if it was a significant drop off from other games. We haven't exactly been scintillating so far.

 

I was sat quite near the Northam, so maybe I just had a skewed perspective, but I actually thought the atmosphere in the first half was decent. Although I agree with the argument of the supporters 'lifting' the team, that insipid performance really drained the energy yesterday - I don't recall many games where at (only) 2-0 down I felt devoid of any hope. That's a problem.

[S-Clarke]

Great write up mrfahaji - can't disagree with any of that. It was certainly a worrying display. Can't remember the last time we played that badly, with absolutely no idea what we were doing. (Oh, maybe Wolves...)

[doddisalegend]

After having the weekend to let the dust settle on this defeat, I'm still struggling to find any positives. Even at 2-0 down, if you nick a goal there's always a good chance of a frantic finish, but I said to my friend that I simply had no optimism of us getting a goal, we were that utterly awful.

 

Watford did a job on us. They were excellent and executed their gameplan to perfection. However, they didn't actually create that many chances. I can remember a goal mouth scramble in the second half, and when they hit on the break at 0-2, but it's telling that Watford were so much better than us yet somehow our defenders played "ok" - Hoedt and Stephens weren't obviously brilliant with heroic blocks, last ditch challenges and towering headers, but yet they also didn't do a lot wrong. Because Watford controlled the game without being all over us.

 

That's why it's so disappointing that we were so inept. When you lose 2-0 at home to Chelsea because, despite playing quite well, you're just not as good, you can accept it. Even last year against West Ham, when we lost 3-1, I remember people getting angry at the performance, yet we still created chances, played decently at times, always felt in with a chance, and were undone by a couple of long range shots. That wasn't the case against Watford. We had a 15 spell at the start of the second half when we improved, but then Silva changed it again and it went back to normal.

 

It feels pointless giving individual ratings. Although certain players were conspicuous by their absence, when your front SIX players all play badly (even Romeu), it suggests there's something worse afoot than just individuals having an off day. It's easy to criticise the attacking players because we don't score, and while I found Redmond's decision to shoot from an impossible angle rather than playing it across goal infuriating, I can't remember too many times where our attackers had the ball, had good options, and yet still did nothing with it. It didn't really surprise me that Boufal didn't play well, and that dropping Tadic didn't solve all our problems like many thought it would, because we could play Ronaldo up front and still wouldn't score. Persisting with Davis as DM is a strange one admittedly, and we've seen before that Davis and JWP rarely works as 2 of the 3 in the middle.

 

I don't think Shane Long should be our starting striker, and if he was a permanent fixture in our team all season I'd be concerned, but when we are struggling he at the very least puts defenders under pressure and can turn nothing into something with his pace. Taking off Gabbiadini may not have been a sound decision, but bringing on Long was.

 

As Lord Duckhunter alluded to earlier, Puel's side may have been boring to watch, but they stuck to a style of play. We don't even keep the ball well now. Too often we seemed to 'dink' it forward, around chest/head height to our forward line. It's not incisive, but it's not safe either. Gabbiadini, Boufal, Redmond, JWP, Tadic - one thing they have in common is that they can't hold the ball up for toffee, and aren't going to win 50-50 balls. So what do we do? Chip balls up to them at awkward heights to fight for. We also have no movement - Watford constantly sent two defenders to shut the man down, and yet we couldn't take advantage of the extra man/space behind them.

One final mention - I said earlier that you can't single out individuals after such an inept team performance, but once again we lost a game on account of two long range strikes that Forster couldn't get down to. They were decent hits, but Forster doesn't move his feet, and/or doesn't 'push off' his feet to get any distance. He basically falls down and reaches, he doesn't dive. I think Gomes would have saved both of those shots. For all our ineptitude outpitch, if we don't concede those goals so easily the game still could have worked out differently.

 

This was easily our worst performance of the season so far, but you can only write it off as a 'bad day at the office' if it was a significant drop off from other games. We haven't exactly been scintillating so far.

 

I was sat quite near the Northam, so maybe I just had a skewed perspective, but I actually thought the atmosphere in the first half was decent. Although I agree with the argument of the supporters 'lifting' the team, that insipid performance really drained the energy yesterday - I don't recall many games where at (only) 2-0 down I felt devoid of any hope. That's a problem.

 

This bit is spot on it was doing my head in. We have a team of light weight, midgets whose best asset is (allegedly anyway) they are quite good technically so why the hell we aren't getting the ball down, playing it on the deck and playing to our strengths? its the same in the final third when we work the ball out wide and then just send in high crosses like we've got a several units in the box.

[Charlie Wayman]

Gentlemen, we lost a game of football, we lose games of football most seasons even when finishing 8,7,6,8 in consecutive seasons. It is not something new.

[captainchris]

I damn well hope the players were in on Sunday!

They are getting a very soft ride it seems to me. Training is too relaxed, too funny ha ha....

So we were too worn out were we!

These guys need to get in the real world and fast.... That includes the bl. dy manager.....!

Does anyone have a decent sized garden because Black needs to be put on gardening leave pronto...... Brings Zero, give him a potting shed and some seeds somewhere else !

[Forester]

Gentlemen, we lost a game of football, we lose games of football most seasons even when finishing 8,7,6,8 in consecutive seasons. It is not something new.

Have you watched the five games so far? And reflected on patter of play, progress made through the five games and quality of opponents?

[Micky]

Gentlemen, we lost a game of football, we lose games of football most seasons even when finishing 8,7,6,8 in consecutive seasons. It is not something new.

 

Losing wasn't the issue.

[Rory Peepa]

We get outmuscled by the bigger teams and let's be honest: that's most of them these days. Palace are a big side. Will we cope there? Then the better technical sides will cut through us. 14-16 we've had a decent blend of pace (Mane Long) power (Virgil Wanyama Pelle etc) and skill (Tadic lallana etc.) We have no plan B. Yes the football can be tidy but do we score thumping headers from free kicks or corners? Do we power through the middle with big runners? Do we score from outside the box? Rarely to all of those. We don't even shoot quickly enough FFS. We have become the most predictable side in the league and need more variation and options. And quick. I think Pelle as the target man and Ricky before him is the difference. Gabbi can't play that way. He's a fox in the box. He needs help and and Austin or Long aren't going to hold the ball up either.

 

 

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[SaveloyMush]

Watching Match Of The Day, nearly all goals are scored one of 3 ways: from a quick ball in from the wing being met by a striker moving at the right time; by a threaded 20 or 30 yard pass from midfield, picking up a clever run from a forward; or from a set-piece. No other team tries to pass it into net, having left the opposition dizzy with the number of touches all over the pitch, like Spain of the last decade.

 

Saints' macramé football does not work, it allows too much time for the opposition to make a cup of tea, have a siesta and get back into defensive position. The worry is that the current squad can't play any other way; certainly they don't seem adept at scoring by any of the means of the other Premier League teams. As I wrote in a previous post, the squad won't be changing anytime soon. I am beginning to think that van Dijk playing up front isn't as daft as it sounds...

[Lets B Avenue]

We get outmuscled by the bigger teams and let's be honest: that's most of them these days. Palace are a big side. Will we cope there? Then the better technical sides will cut through us. 14-16 we've had a decent blend of pace (Mane Long) power (Virgil Wanyama Pelle etc) and skill (Tadic lallana etc.) We have no plan B. Yes the football can be tidy but do we score thumping headers from free kicks or corners? Do we power through the middle with big runners? Do we score from outside the box? Rarely to all of those. We don't even shoot quickly enough FFS. We have become the most predictable side in the league and need more variation and options. And quick. I think Pelle as the target man and Ricky before him is the difference. Gabbi can't play that way. He's a fox in the box. He needs help and and Austin or Long aren't going to hold the ball up either.

 

 

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After 10 mins watching Watford dominate the ball and win every tackle and header, my friends and I were shuddering at the thought of playing ManU in 2 weeks time.

They make Watford look small.

 

Can't get VVD back soon enough.