Southampton vs. Watford build up

[sandwichsaint]

 

Bench:

 

McCarthy

Stephens

Ward-Prowse

Davis

Long

Austin

 

 

That first eleven with that strong bench (plus plenty more options in Hoijberg, Yoshida, Targett, Pied, McQueen and Sims) is capable of pushing top 6 IMO.

 

If only football was played on paper eh?

[PeteCampbell]

Tadic absolutely has to be benched for either Ward-Prowse or Boufal.

[verlaine1979]

Not saying it'll necessarily make a difference, but the Tadic/Boufal/Redmond experiments were all previously done with Romeu and Davis at CM/DM rather than Romeu and Lemina. Having more of a presence behind that three might make us harder to play through and more able to regain possession.

[Disco Stu]

If only football was played on paper eh?

 

I think that team can play brilliant on the pitch!

[mrfahaji]

Tadic absolutely has to be benched for either Ward-Prowse or Boufal.

 

What about Tadic and Redmond benched for JWP and Boufal? That's probably what I'd do. Although I'd hope that Tadic regained his place eventually on merit, as at his best he is much better than Ward-Prowse. Perhaps JWP can replace Davis.

[syd_barrett_saint]

Tadic has everything in his locker, bar consistency (and a good penalty!). If we're honest, that's why he plays for us and not a top European club.

 

That said, he is one of my favourite players in the current squad.

 

Everything in his locker, except for consistency, penalties... shooting in general, pace, moving the ball on quickly when required, a good temperament, and honest play (he dives too often).

 

I'm not saying he isn't a very talented player, who in the right position and system can be a great creative hub. BUT... he is far from having everything in his locker.

[Dusic]

Wouldn't say JWP has done anything either versus Wolves or as a sub in the other games to say he should come back into the starting XI.

[Bad Wolf]

I never know what to expect from Watford because they have such a high player, manager and system turnover. Has anyone watched them this season? Are they similar to Hull at the back end of last?

 

When I was growing up, they were our bogey team.

[Avenue_Saint]

[ATTACH=CONFIG]2527[/ATTACH]

 

Bench:

 

McCarthy

Stephens

Ward-Prowse

Davis

Long

Austin

 

 

That first eleven with that strong bench (plus plenty more options in Hoijberg, Yoshida, Targett, Pied, McQueen and Sims) is capable of pushing top 6 IMO.

 

Swap Tadic and boufal, give it a couple of games and I genuinely feel this could really work for us. May not have been as effective before but now we have Lemina partnering Romeu and that in opinion will make a significant difference

[Saint_clark]

Tadic is not a bad player, and has been a great signing for us, especially when he had Pelle up there with him. I do feel sometimes he needs someone a bit more physical in front of him.

 

I think he just needs more than one option to go to. Gabbiadini makes good forward runs, but when he is the ONLY forward player doing so it's easy to defend against no matter how good the pass is. Which is why we either need to play Austin up top instead to hold the ball up and bring others into play, or play him or Long alongside Gabbiadini.

[Saint_clark]

Swap Tadic and boufal, give it a couple of games and I genuinely feel this could really work for us. May not have been as effective before but now we have Lemina partnering Romeu and that in opinion will make a significant difference

 

Trouble is Davis won't be dropped and nothing we've seen in the past suggests that Redmond, Boufal and Tadic together works. None of those 3 get into goalscoring positions enough.

[Dusic]

Tadic still our best creator. Play him into form.

[Bobbyboy]

Trouble is Davis won't be dropped and nothing we've seen in the past suggests that Redmond, Boufal and Tadic together works. None of those 3 get into goalscoring positions enough.

 

Davis, conversely, does manage to get into those positions occasionally and then whacks it into row Z. My seven-year-old daughter actually thinks he is called 'Steven Davis Goal Machine' thanks to my sarcastic outbursts. BUT maybe MP has some ideas about how to get this midfield-forward thing to work... some weird combination we haven't tried yet.

 

I'd continue to try Boufal just because of the talent, but let him know it's a limited-time run. I'd also either drop Tadic or at least tell him he's not allowed to even THINK about taking any more penalties.

[captainchris]

Do you see any evidence that he does? Do you have any evidence? No, probably not. Probably more to do with the fact that most managers now seem to be identikit and all do the same thing. Ferguson probably wouldn't. He'd probably have the team that won the most things too. As to the decisions we make, this isn't American football: the players are meant to actually be able to do things without a huddle every 30 seconds in order to be told what to do.

 

As to the post you replied to. I do hope they're not suggesting using Redmond in the middle as a number 10. Much rather have Boufal there. Bring Redmond off the bench if we're going to persist with Tadic which I wouldn't.

Fair enough too ....

[woodsaint]

Can see Lemina starting on the bench on saturday. Still not quite 100% fit and clocked up plenty of airmiles the last few days. Would like to see Hojbjerg given a chance but hasnt even made the squad recently. Stephens to play DM again?

[Bad Wolf]

Tadic still our best creator. Play him into form.

 

Yes, when things are going well anyway. Tadic is someone you can rely on at 2-0 up to make it 4-0. We need someone at 0-0 you can rely on to make it 1-0.

[Pamplemousse]

Tadic still our best creator. Play him into form.

 

Yeh, all of those great chances he created against Huddersfield...

 

He's had his chance, time for someone else to get an opportunity.

[shurlock]

I'd go with side that so acquitted itself so well in the league cup final (and the run of games around it). Only changes would be Lemina for Davis and VVD/Hoedt for Stephens. Play JWP on the right to take advantage of his delivery and play Tadic in the hole where he began to strike up a good understanding with Gabbi when the two played closer together.

[Dangermouth]

When he was put through vs Huddersfield he majorly slowed up and then tried a turn. Every video of training that I've seen this season they're practicing being put through on goal while under pressure from a defender. Clearly shows how our midfield bottle chances and try to shift responsibility.

 

JWP should come into the team when VVD and Hoedt play. No ones gonna get on the end of his crosses, with the exception of Yoshida.

 

I desperately want JWP to do well, like I do with any player that wears our shirt.

 

And then made a weak appeal for a pen when it was obviously not one. I'm a bit surprised the defender hadn't sussed that he offered no threat and all he had to do was stand him up, but ....

 

We have to give Boufal playing time or we'll probably just lose him soonish without knowing if he actually can do more than pirouette (which we know he can, but we'd like to see more from him). I think he might link quite well with Lemina.

[mrfahaji]

I'd go with side that so acquitted itself so well in the league cup final (and the run of games around it). Only changes would be Lemina for Davis and VVD/Hoedt for Stephens. Play JWP on the right to take advantage of his delivery and play Tadic in the hole where he began to strike up a good understanding with Gabbi when the two played closer together.

 

Yep, same! (although Tadic was poor in the cup final)

[mrfahaji]

Do you see any evidence that he does? Do you have any evidence? No, probably not. Probably more to do with the fact that most managers now seem to be identikit and all do the same thing. Ferguson probably wouldn't. He'd probably have the team that won the most things too. As to the decisions we make, this isn't American football: the players are meant to actually be able to do things without a huddle every 30 seconds in order to be told what to do.

 

As to the post you replied to. I do hope they're not suggesting using Redmond in the middle as a number 10. Much rather have Boufal there. Bring Redmond off the bench if we're going to persist with Tadic which I wouldn't.

 

Do you watch/follow American Football? Is this comment a criticism of it, or just an observation how the two sports are different?

[farawaysaint]

Do you watch/follow American Football? Is this comment a criticism of it, or just an observation how the two sports are different?

 

I tried once or twice and it is unbearable Seems so slow paced.

[mrfahaji]

I tried once or twice and it is unbearable Seems so slow paced.

 

It's pretty hard just to watch a game, pick up what's happening and understand the intracacies of it. While there are unquestionably a few annoying aspects of it, a lot of criticism is usually from people who have never bothered to learn about it - things like "it's so stop-start" are just lazy observations and completely miss the point of the game. The reason I picked up Dangermouth's comment was because plays in American Football are so extensive and complicated, and because the game doesn't flow it makes sense for the players to discuss the next move (a bit like if Saints got 3 free kicks in a row, you'd expect the players to discuss what was happening with each one), rather than just 'make runs and hope for the best'. The players still have to memorise entire playbooks and routines, something far more complicated that any team in assocation football ever tries to implement.

[JibMcdo]

Forster

 

Cedric Stephens Hoedt Bertrand

 

Romeu Lemina

 

Gabbiadini Davis Tadic

 

Austin

 

McCarthy, Yoshida, Pied, JWP, Redmond, Boufal, Long

 

Gabbi and Austin both playing would be nice, they are the only 2 players who are capable of scoring. Gabbi coming in from the right on his left foot making central runs for Tadic and Davis to find, Austin will run channels, open the space up and pop up with a goal. Tadic can reunite with Bertrand down the left and you've still got a solid central 3 in midfield. Yoshi, admirable as he is, can finally be dropped. Oh, and Redmond, too.

[Pamplemousse]

2008 was the last time we lost to Watford. We've been a bit of a bogey team for them, although records are there to be broken...

[mrfahaji]

Forster

 

Cedric Stephens Hoedt Bertrand

 

Romeu Lemina

 

Gabbiadini Davis Tadic

 

Austin

 

McCarthy, Yoshida, Pied, JWP, Redmond, Boufal, Long

 

Gabbi and Austin both playing would be nice, they are the only 2 players who are capable of scoring. Gabbi coming in from the right on his left foot making central runs for Tadic and Davis to find, Austin will run channels, open the space up and pop up with a goal. Tadic can reunite with Bertrand down the left and you've still got a solid central 3 in midfield. Yoshi, admirable as he is, can finally be dropped. Oh, and Redmond, too.

 

Yoshida, admirable as he is, has also regularly been better than Stephens, has more pace (which might be needed alongside Hoedt) and isn't a total liability in the air.

Edited 7 September, 2017 by mrfahaji

[trousers]

...

Edited 7 September, 2017 by trousers
Probably better in the VvD thread

[Saint Garrett]

Forster

Cedric Yoshida Hoedt Bertrand

Lemina Romeu

JWP Tadic Redmond

Gabbiadini

[mrfahaji]

Forster

Cedric Yoshida Hoedt Bertrand

Lemina Romeu

JWP Davis* Boufal

Gabbiadini

 

* Would consider swapping Davis for Tadic, or putting Tadic left and Boufal central.

[iansums]

2008 was the last time we lost to Watford. We've been a bit of a bogey team for them, although records are there to be broken...

 

Yes, but they did present us with one of the biggest bogey's ever seen.

[igsey]

Did anybody catch the presser? All that was reported on the BBC ticker was that VvD is back in training and MP saying that Watford are a good team.

[Matthew Le God]

Did anybody catch the presser? All that was reported on the BBC ticker was that VvD is back in training and MP saying that Watford are a good team.

 

You can watch Part 1 with the TV journalists here or on Facebook...

 

https://southamptonfc.com/news/2017-09-07/press-conference-part-one-pellegrino-southampton-watford

 

Part 2 with newspaper journalists is always embargoed until 22:30

[benjii]

Yoshia, admirable as he is, has also regularly been better than Stephens, has more pace (which might be needed alongside Hoedt) and isn't a total liability in the air.

 

Indeed. Absolutely mental that some people think Stephens is better than Yoshida.

[trousers]

I'm sticking with this...

 

It won't be this but I'd go with..

 

Forster

Cedric

VvD

Yoshida

Bertrand

Romeu

Davis ©

Lemina

Boufal

Redmond

Gabbiadini

 

Subs: McCarthy, McQueen, Hoedt, JWP, Tadic, Long, Austin

 

Harsh on Stephens but...

[the saint in winchester]

15:57

 

 

'VAN DIJK NOT READY TO RETURN'

Southampton boss Mauricio Pellegrino says Virgil van Dijk needs to build up his fitness before he is considered for selection.

 

"[Van Dijk] is training with the team again," confirmed Pellegrino. "How long before we see him in a first-team match? It depends on the player.

"We know he is coming from a long period of time without playing a game. He needs to train and play games. I will decide in the future.

"As a player you have to show on the pitch how ready you are but for us and Virgil everything is now normal."

[trousers]

15:57

 

 

'VAN DIJK NOT READY TO RETURN'

Southampton boss Mauricio Pellegrino says Virgil van Dijk needs to build up his fitness before he is considered for selection.

 

"[Van Dijk] is training with the team again," confirmed Pellegrino. "How long before we see him in a first-team match? It depends on the player.

"We know he is coming from a long period of time without playing a game. He needs to train and play games. I will decide in the future.

"As a player you have to show on the pitch how ready you are but for us and Virgil everything is now normal."

 

How on Earth do Sky come up with a definitive headline like that from such a non-definitive statement from Pellegrino?

[DT]

Wonder how they'll manage his appearance at the ground. Just business as usual? Don't boo him, chaps. Would do absolutely nothing for anyone

[SFC-TID!]

I took from the managers interview he is line for a start and he certainly looks ready for action in the training videos. For me, an 80% V is better than a 100% Maya or Jack. Bench minimum.

[benjii]

I can confirm this is true. Unless it isn't. In which case it was true at the time.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Only joking.

[Appy]

Forster (unfortunately)

Cedric

VVD

Hoedt

Bertrand

Lemina

Romeu

JWP

Boufal

Redmond

Gabbiadini

 

Unlikely but hopeful.

[derry]

Looking at the same non goal scorers being endlessly recycled with the expectation they might fluke a goal between them is depressing. Unless Gabbiadini pulls a rabbit out of the hat, the referee intervenes or a defender scores I fear the cow's arse yet again will escape punishment. Sooner or later unless the incumbents suddenly find their shooting boots, Pellegrino is going to have to explore different tactics.

[Shroppie]

[ATTACH=CONFIG]2527[/ATTACH]

 

Bench:

 

McCarthy

Stephens

Ward-Prowse

Davis

Long

Austin

 

 

That first eleven with that strong bench (plus plenty more options in Hoijberg, Yoshida, Targett, Pied, McQueen and Sims) is capable of pushing top 6 IMO.

You obviously haven't seen Boufal, Tadic, Redmond together. It doesn't work, as none of them can link play, hold the ball and find a pass and be available to do the simple things. They need a Davis or JWP to provide for them.

 

 

 

Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk

[Professor]

Not a suggestion as what I, or any individual fan thinks is immaterial, but a guess at what Pellegrino might do for Saturday:

Forster

Cedric; Yoshida; Hoedt; Bertrand

Romeu; Lemina

Redmond; Davis; Tadic

Gabbiadini

 

Bench:

McCarthy

Targett

Stephens

Ward-Prowse

Boufal

Long

Austin

[Dusic]

Looking at the same non goal scorers being endlessly recycled with the expectation they might fluke a goal between them is depressing. Unless Gabbiadini pulls a rabbit out of the hat, the referee intervenes or a defender scores I fear the cow's arse yet again will escape punishment. Sooner or later unless the incumbents suddenly find their shooting boots, Pellegrino is going to have to explore different tactics.

Keep it on the clipboard to paste in next week, Nipper.

[Dusic]

Sounded from the embargoed section like a similar lineup to recent games as he mentioned liking Redmond on the left as another player (Tadic) was on the right. Possible question mark over Lemina as wasn't training with the team today after Intl duty.

 

VVD definitely not in the squad.

 

Pellegrino does come across well. I have trust that he will get it right, hopefully sooner rather than later given our ludicrously fortunate start fixture wise.

[Disco Stu]

You obviously haven't seen Boufal, Tadic, Redmond together. It doesn't work, as none of them can link play, hold the ball and find a pass and be available to do the simple things. They need a Davis or JWP to provide for them.

 

 

 

Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk

 

I understand they're all inconsistant. They are still our best players in those positions.

[JibMcdo]

Indeed. Absolutely mental that some people think Stephens is better than Yoshida.

 

Personally over the last five years I feel it's been proved Yoshida is nothing more than capable back up. I would like to see Stephens play alongside someone other than Yoshida and see how he improves. Centre back is a position that needs games, and Stephens has potential. He's very comfortable on the ball, reads the game quite well, and if he can improve in the air and in one one one situations, he could turn out to be very good. Either way, I'd like to see what happens rather than stagnating on the bench and progress being halted, like JWP.

[Shroppie]

I understand they're all inconsistant. They are still our best players in those positions.

But it's a team game and it's not just a question of putting in the theoretically best player in each position.

 

Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk

[fanimal]

We will clearly need a big tall CB who can head the ball against Watford for sure. I honestly don't know what our best 11 is and I don't think MoPo does yet or Clueless ever did. That is our fundamental underlying issue, in the team situation we are still forming, not even norming or performing, let alone storming!

[mrfahaji]

Personally over the last five years I feel it's been proved Yoshida is nothing more than capable back up. I would like to see Stephens play alongside someone other than Yoshida and see how he improves. Centre back is a position that needs games, and Stephens has potential. He's very comfortable on the ball, reads the game quite well, and if he can improve in the air and in one one one situations, he could turn out to be very good. Either way, I'd like to see what happens rather than stagnating on the bench and progress being halted, like JWP.

 

So you're taking 'the last 5 years' to assess Yoshida - who joined as a 24 year old and over recent seasons only managed the occasional game, sometimes not even at CB, while at the same time acknolwedging the argument that CBs need games... haven't you just explained why Yoshida struggled before but is now looking like a decent player?

 

I'm not saying there isn't merit in the argument to give Stephens game time, especially alongside someone else, but for the last year, Yoshida has demonstrated that he is more than a capable back up (several MoM performances as well), and to ignore that in favour of his occasional appearances in prior years seems odd.