Southampton vs. Watford build up

[derry]

A couple of observations:

 

 

1. Who's going to create chances for them -neither Long nor Austin can create chances for themselves? They're technically limited. With combo of Davis, Lemina and Romeu behind them, our side is painfully short of creativity.

 

2. Shoehorning Austin and Gabbi as wingers/insider forwards requires them to play slightly deeper. The risk is that Long is still isolated in this setup unless you're prepared to leave Austin and Gabbi up top. That in turn creates a massive gap between our midfield and forwards when developing attacks while leaving our midfield exposed when out of possession.

 

Never mind that nothing in Austin's locker suggests he can play in such a position (Puel initially experimented with him in a similar position and the experiment was short-lived). Gabbi could play there, though his main strength is playing on the shoulder of the last defender and finding space behind defences, not off other strikers.

 

So we continue to play the once in a blue moon scorers. No thank you.

[doddisalegend]

Do you not realise that Ward-Prowse is one of the best crossers of the ball in the PL

 

Which is not much use considering we have very little presence in the air from our front line. I don't want to see endless crosses into an opposition box containing one (two if you are lucky) saints players and half a dozen opposition players. We are much better when we play to feet or get to the byline and put in low cutbacks.

[lloydie]

I'm clearly no manager, so this will probably be dismissed as b0llocks which is fair enough. But I've noticed in most games this year, that Tadic and Redmond really struggle to link play up with Gabbi up top on his own, which essentially leaves him out of the game for very long spells and also means we get 0 goals most games.

 

Wouldn't playing two up top help things out a bit more?

[mrfahaji]

I'm clearly no manager, so this will probably be dismissed as b0llocks which is fair enough. But I've noticed in most games this year, that Tadic and Redmond really struggle to link play up with Gabbi up top on his own, which essentially leaves him out of the game for very long spells and also means we get 0 goals most games.

 

Wouldn't playing two up top help things out a bit more?

 

But how? If the problem is not getting the ball to the forwards, on that logic if we play 2 up top then that will be 2 players instead of 1 that don't get the ball...!

[vectraman]

Which is not much use considering we have very little presence in the air from our front line. I don't want to see endless crosses into an opposition box containing one (two if you are lucky) saints players and half a dozen opposition players. We are much better when we play to feet or get to the byline and put in low cutbacks.

 

Totally agree.

I think a big part of the problem is playing Redmond and Tadic on the wrong wings - a lefty on the right and a righty on the left will always result in the tedious pass the ball from one side of the opponents box to the other, as our wingers come inside onto their stronger foot and the defenders have a simple time ushering them inside knowing full well their shooting from distance is, umm, less than great!

We need the AM's to take the full backs on, beat them and cut the ball back low across the box, hugely unlikely when on the wrong wing, and I struggle to remember Redmond actually ever taking a full back on in a foot race, outpacing him, and getting a ball in from the bye line.

High crosses into the box are a waste of time, we have no one of sufficient height to get on the end of it anyway, when outnumbered by defenders it makes the likelihood even less...

So for all JWP's best crossing in the premier league attributes, it doesn't help our team score. How many assists did he get last year with his amazing crosses...

[AK]

Totally agree.

I think a big part of the problem is playing Redmond and Tadic on the wrong wings - a lefty on the right and a righty on the left will always result in the tedious pass the ball from one side of the opponents box to the other, as our wingers come inside onto their stronger foot and the defenders have a simple time ushering them inside knowing full well their shooting from distance is, umm, less than great!

We need the AM's to take the full backs on, beat them and cut the ball back low across the box, hugely unlikely when on the wrong wing, and I struggle to remember Redmond actually ever taking a full back on in a foot race, outpacing him, and getting a ball in from the bye line.

High crosses into the box are a waste of time, we have no one of sufficient height to get on the end of it anyway, when outnumbered by defenders it makes the likelihood even less...

So for all JWP's best crossing in the premier league attributes, it doesn't help our team score. How many assists did he get last year with his amazing crosses...

 

This is exactly how I see it.

[shurlock]

Totally agree.

I think a big part of the problem is playing Redmond and Tadic on the wrong wings - a lefty on the right and a righty on the left will always result in the tedious pass the ball from one side of the opponents box to the other, as our wingers come inside onto their stronger foot and the defenders have a simple time ushering them inside knowing full well their shooting from distance is, umm, less than great!

We need the AM's to take the full backs on, beat them and cut the ball back low across the box, hugely unlikely when on the wrong wing, and I struggle to remember Redmond actually ever taking a full back on in a foot race, outpacing him, and getting a ball in from the bye line.

High crosses into the box are a waste of time, we have no one of sufficient height to get on the end of it anyway, when outnumbered by defenders it makes the likelihood even less...

So for all JWP's best crossing in the premier league attributes, it doesn't help our team score. How many assists did he get last year with his amazing crosses...

 

This ignores the fact that our fullbacks provide much of that width. By coming inside and pulling opposing fullbacks out of position, Tadic and Redmond actually free up Cedric and Bertrand to get behind defences (as they do) while themselves getting into shooting positions. My issue is that besides the fullbacks (who are first and foremost defenders), there is no other movement around Tadic and Redmond nor is there anyone from midfield who can consistently play them in.

[DuncanRG]

This ignores the fact that our fullbacks provide much of that width. By coming inside and pulling opposing fullbacks out of position, Tadic and Redmond actually free up Cedric and Bertrand to get behind defences (as they do) while themselves getting into shooting positions. My issue is that besides the fullbacks (who are first and foremost defenders), there is no other movement around Tadic and Redmond nor is there anyone from midfield who can consistently play them in.

 

Agree with this. Watch Tadic and Cedric against Swansea for an idea of how it's supposed to work.

[AK]

This ignores the fact that our fullbacks provide much of that width. By coming inside and pulling opposing fullbacks out of position, Tadic and Redmond actually free up Cedric and Bertrand to get behind defences (as they do) while themselves getting into shooting positions. My issue is that besides the fullbacks (who are first and foremost defenders), there is no other movement around Tadic and Redmond nor is there anyone from midfield who can consistently play them in.

 

Yes that's a fair point and is obviously part of the plan but it rarely happens effectively, the wide players should swap every now then so they can attack their fullback on the outside this would also prevent the full backs having to continually make 100 metre sprints only never to receive the ball. Sometimes I think Redmond ignores Bertrand on purpose.

[iansums]

I'd drop Tadic and Redmond and play Boufal just behind Gabbi with JWP and Davis on either side. Boufal IMO deserves a run of games, let's face it he can't do any less than Tadic at the moment.

[niceandfriendly]

McCarthy

Cedric Hoedt Yoshida Bertrand

------Romeu ---- Lemina

Redmond ------------- Boufal

--------Austin Gabbi

 

subs: Forster, Stephens, McQueen, Pied, Tadic, Davis, Long

 

We can't keep rewarding horrendously poor footballers with places in Premier League starting line ups and match day squads. We're not a charity. It's noble to want to support local youngsters by giving them a chance to be a professional football player, but if they can't play football then we can't continue with the experiment. We must be the only club in the land who prioritise being a "nice lad" over having ability.

Edited 30 August, 2017 by niceandfriendly

[suewhistle]

I think a big part of the problem is playing Redmond and Tadic on the wrong wings -

 

I really find all this curious that professional players can't use their weaker foot. I made a grand total of two assists last year, one a cross with my left and the other with my stronger, usual right, purely based on need and where I happened to be on the pitch at the time. It frustrates me that this doesn't happen more, and if it did it would keep the defenders on their toes as they can't assume what the attacker will do.

 

As for the lack of assists from JWP's crosses - I wouldn't use that as a criticism of the crosses themselves...

[Whitey Grandad]

I really find all this curious that professional players can't use their weaker foot. I made a grand total of two assists last year, one a cross with my left and the other with my stronger, usual right, purely based on need and where I happened to be on the pitch at the time. It frustrates me that this doesn't happen more, and if it did it would keep the defenders on their toes as they can't assume what the attacker will do.

 

As for the lack of assists from JWP's crosses - I wouldn't use that as a criticism of the crosses themselves...

 

For a bet George Best once played a whole game using only his left foot. And he scored with it.

[John Boy Saint]

Just to stir the muddy puddle some more, I don't think the 3 at the back v Wolves was an experiment, we are going to go all Chelsea with Jack, Wesley, Maya at the back. giving Bertrand and Cedric more licence up the wings.

[ecuk268]

For a bet George Best once played a whole game using only his left foot. And he scored with it.

 

When he first came to Man U, he was very right-footed but Matt Busby told him that, to be a great player, you had to be comfortable with both feet.

 

He then spent hours kicking a ball against a wall using only his left foot and eventually considered it to be his stronger side.

[vectraman]

Has anyone crying for 2 up top seen it actually happen, for us or others?

 

I can't think of a quicker route to losing games. We would get stuffed, and we'd have 2 strikers strolling around never getting the ball.

 

Sure have. Saints v Arsenal, Boxing Day - handed their arses to them on a plate 4-0 Saints. Cuco's amazing strike, but Long and Mané played in a 4-4-2. Brilliant stuff. Best performance from us at home in a very long time

There two big central defenders didn't know what to do. Ball played on the deck through the middle with pace running onto it. If that's the result of 4-4-2 I'm all for it. Gets my vote

[SaveloyMush]

Just to stir the muddy puddle some more, I don't think the 3 at the back v Wolves was an experiment, we are going to go all Chelsea with Jack, Wesley, Maya at the back. giving Bertrand and Cedric more licence up the wings.

 

I think this is correct. I don't expect Bertrand to be around come February and McQueen and Targett are both better wing-backs than full-backs. I also imagine that Cedric will be gone this time next year, Pied is a converted winger anyway and, at a push and for the die-hards, Ward-Prowse could play right wing-back too. If it's 3-5-2, then the Højbjerg who looked so good in pre-season 2016 could play a role alongside Romeu and Lemina. I don't see another full-on striker coming anytime soon, I still believe that 2 from our current 3 (or even all 3 in a 3-4-3...) would work.

[Manuel]

Forster

Cedric Yoshida VVD Bertrand

Lemina Romeu

Tadic JWP Redmond

Gabbi

[redder freak]

Forster

Cedric Yoshida VVD Bertrand

Lemina Romeu

Tadic JWP Redmond

Gabbi

 

Don't think we'll drop Davis. And Ward-Prowse is better on the wing putting in crosses.

[trousers]

I'd throw VvD straight back into the starting 11. Coutinho played for Brazil last night despite being 'injured' and not match fit. VvD strikes me as one of those athletes that wouldn't need to spend as much time 'getting up to match speed' as other players.

 

And the longer we leave him out the longer any discord will fester.

[GarrettIvo]

I'd throw VvD straight back into the starting 11. Coutinho played for Brazil last night despite being 'injured' and not match fit. VvD strikes me as one of those athletes that wouldn't need to spend as much time 'getting up to match speed' as other players.

 

And the longer we leave him out the longer any discord will fester.

 

I would have thought bringing him right back in wouldn't do much for team harmony. Especially if Hoedt plays as well. A bloke in his first game next to a bloke who hasn't played in seven months and spent most of that time pushing for a move out.

Not the sort of defensive structure I want.

[Simon3737]

I can't see VvD playing this match. He hasn't trained with the first team all year and needs to learn what Pellegrino's tactics are etc.

 

I hope he gets back training with the first team pretty soon and has a good media strategist to advise him how to publicly apologise effectively. Maybe pretend he can barely read and blame it all on his pet dog

 

It will damage the morale of the whole team if he gets picked, but gets booed.

[Minsk]

Has anyone crying for 2 up top seen it actually happen, for us or others?

 

I can't think of a quicker route to losing games. We would get stuffed, and we'd have 2 strikers strolling around never getting the ball.

 

Nope, in 45+ years of watching football I have never, ever, seen a team play with 2 strikers up top - never, ever, ever. I am sure you are right and that team who is ever stupid enough to try such a thing will get absolutely hammered.

 

:mcinnes:

 

Just to stir the muddy puddle some more, I don't think the 3 at the back v Wolves was an experiment, we are going to go all Chelsea with Jack, Wesley, Maya at the back. giving Bertrand and Cedric more licence up the wings.

 

I don't think the plan is to go 'full on Chelsea' but, most certainly, I expect to see us play that formation on a number of occasions this season. I am pretty sure that I read Pellegrino often changed formations and tactics last season, and that he used 3 CBs when playing against the top sides last season. Therefore, I wouldn't be surprised to see us employ a 5-3-2/3-4-1-2 when playing the (so called) big 6, especially away from home.

 

As for the striker situation, the most incisive I have seen us in attack since Pellegrino arrived was in the Seville match for the brief period when Long and Gabbiadini were on the pitch together. Long stretches defences; Gabbiadini makes clever runs, finding space. I would very much like to see them play together from the start. FWIW, I don't think a Gabbi/Austin partnership will work very well, unfortunately.

 

For those matches against the top teams I wouldn't be surprised to see, and would actually like to see, something like:

 

---------------------Forster------------------------

 

---------Maya-------VvD--------Hoedt------------

 

Cedric----Lemina-------Romeu---------Bertrand

 

-------------------Davis-------------------------

 

-----------Long------------Gabbi---------------

 

With Boufal replacing Davis as the game goes on/when needed for a bit more craft/creativity

 

As for the Watford match, something like this:

 

-------------------Forster-------------------

 

Cedric-----Maya---------Hoedt-----Bertrand

 

-------------------Romeu---------------------

 

--------Lemina---------------Davis-----------

 

-------------------Boufal----------------------

 

-------Long------------------Gabbi-----------

[syd_barrett_saint]

As for the striker situation, the most incisive I have seen us in attack since Pellegrino arrived was in the Seville match for the brief period when Long and Gabbiadini were on the pitch together. Long stretches defences; Gabbiadini makes clever runs, finding space. I would very much like to see them play together from the start. FWIW, I don't think a Gabbi/Austin partnership will work very well, unfortunately.

 

Agreed, although I would still stick to having Long as part of the 3 behind Gabbi as the sole striker. I know you like 2 up front but I don't think it's going to happen.

 

For me, against Watford we should play:

 

Forster

Cedric Yoshida Hoedt Bertrand

Lemina Romeu

Long Davis Redmond

Gabbiadini

 

Although unless Redmond improves in this game, I would give Boufal at least half an hour instead of him in the 2nd half. But, being Watford, hopefully Redmond will improve... he scored in both games against them last season :-)

[striker]

Getting more scoring is job #1, so I would try this:

Forster

Cedric Maya Hoedt Bertrand

Boufal Romeu Tadic Redmond

Gabbi Austin

 

We have to try having the two best scorers out there. I think we saw them together what once, for 30 minutes in one preseason match?

[Lighthouse]

I'd go with:

 

Forster

 

Cedders - Yoshi - Hoot - Bertrand

 

Romeu - Lemon

 

Redmond - JWP - Tadic

 

Gabbi

[Batman]

we could try a 433 with redmond at the tip of the attack. Maybe Austin wide left?

[shurlock]

we could try a 433 with redmond at the tip of the attack. Maybe Austin wide left?

 

You'll be calling for Puel to return next...

[Suhari]

we could try a 433 with redmond at the tip of the attack. Maybe Austin wide left?

 

Do we have the right players to shuttle now?

 

#bringbackthediamond

[shurlock]

Do we have the right players to shuttle now?

 

#bringbackthediamond

 

Lemina seems a born shuttler.

[Batman]

Do we have the right players to shuttle now?

 

#bringbackthediamond

 

if we could re-sign frazer Richardson, we would be in business

[shurlock]

if we could re-sign frazer Richardson, we would be in business

 

He could be your base of the diamond/forward sweeper hybrid.

 

That way, you can fit Longy, Austin and Gabbi up top and ping the ball to the backpost and bully the fullbacks.

 

Remember football's about scoring goals and not conceding them.

[fanimal]

Shane Long has to be given a chance as we are at home as does Boufal to try and score some goals…all we are saying, is give us a goal!!

[Lighthouse]

Shane Long has to be given a chance as we are at home as does Boufal to try and score some goals…all we are saying, is give us a goal!!

 

-

[larry12]

He could be your base of the diamond/forward sweeper hybrid.

 

That way, you can fit Longy, Austin and Gabbi up top and ping the ball to the backpost and bully the fullbacks.

 

Remember football's about scoring goals and not conceding them.

 

none of these tossers can combine to score! Get f*cking real. Reed did not help. Nobody in to help to score. Reed is a sh*it failure in addressing the scoring problem. Nobody will suddenly start to score. Stop trying to b*ll**** yourselves. The reality is Les Reed has let you tossers fosus on VVD and move away from the reality that he never intended to better the shiite that is already here, because he SERIOUSLY thinks that our midfield is sh*t hot. He is a deluded wa*nker. Wake the f*uck up.

[The9]

Will be interested to see if we play Yoshida alongside Hoedt, fairly sure they're both left sided CBs, we've been there before...

[The9]

Shane Long has to be given a chance as we are at home as does Boufal to try and score some goals…all we are saying, is give us a goal!!

 

Long had the worst finishing rate of all our strikers last season and mostly tends to play when we need a counterattacking threat out wide who can defend. However, in 2014/15 and 2015/16 he outranked his xG so maybe he does just need a few games, as he was cack last season when playing sporadically.

 

Would you play Boufal in the hole behind?

[Simon3737]

Will be interested to see if we play Yoshida alongside Hoedt, fairly sure they're both left sided CBs, we've been there before...

 

All our centre-halves except Hoedt are right-footed according to Pellegrino. When we signed Hoedt, he mentioned we have very few left footers in the whole squad.

 

I checked on Transfermarkt.co.uk and that suggests we only have 6 left-footed players, the 3 left backs plus Hoedt, Tadic and Gabbi. I don't know if this is 100% accurate, but interesting I thought.

 

Apparently Long is the only "bi-footed" player. The rest hop everywhere I assume!

[whelk]

I long for a stress free game where everything we hit goes in and we're 2 or 3 - 0 up at HT. Is it too much to ask?? Soon we're going to batter someone. Hoping it's Watford.

 

West Ham should’ve been stress free. 2-0 up against 10men.

Although the stress feeds the joy.

[Shance]

I'll lose the plot if Pellegrino starts Tadic. He needs benching to at the very least, give him a kick up the ass. He has been crap so far. Give Boufal a chance, we can't do any worse and at least he can pick out a decent through ball. The three behind Gabbi really need to start looking up and watching his runs. His off ball movement is excellent yet they just blindly ignore him. It must be so frustrating for him.

[Roger]

Forster

Cedric vvd hoedt Bertrand

Lemina Romeo

Davis boufal Redmond

Gabba

 

Or

Forster

Yoshi hoedt vvd

Cedric Bertrand

Romeo lemina

Boufal

Austin gabba.

[benjii]

Will be interested to see if we play Yoshida alongside Hoedt, fairly sure they're both left sided CBs, we've been there before...

 

Yoshida is right footed. He's just good enough to play left back as well.

[benjii]

All our centre-halves except Hoedt are right-footed according to Pellegrino. When we signed Hoedt, he mentioned we have very few left footers in the whole squad.

 

I checked on Transfermarkt.co.uk and that suggests we only have 6 left-footed players, the 3 left backs plus Hoedt, Tadic and Gabbi. I don't know if this is 100% accurate, but interesting I thought.

 

Apparently Long is the only "bi-footed" player. The rest hop everywhere I assume!

 

Long?

 

Yoshida is very bi-footed (although prefers right foot) as illustrated by The9s wrongful impression of him being a leftie.

[doddisalegend]

I'll lose the plot if Pellegrino starts Tadic. He needs benching to at the very least, give him a kick up the ass. He has been crap so far. Give Boufal a chance, we can't do any worse and at least he can pick out a decent through ball. The three behind Gabbi really need to start looking up and watching his runs. His off ball movement is excellent yet they just blindly ignore him. It must be so frustrating for him.

 

I think he needs to be played our best hope is that Tadic and Gabbi get the sort of partnership going that Tadic had with Pelle that only comes with consistent game time.

[LeBizzier69]

Whatever combination we play, I expect to see us tapping it around the final third for 30 seconds before a high, wide and handsome strike. Gabbi must be pulling his hair out at the lack of vision behind him.

[alehouseboys]

I think he needs to be played our best hope is that Tadic and Gabbi get the sort of partnership going that Tadic had with Pelle that only comes with consistent game time.

 

"They're magic, you'll seeeeeeeeee,

Tadic and Gab'adiniiiiiiiiii"

 

Nice thought, got me doubts - one of 3 similar talented but frustrating players we have.

 

Watford, decent side, another draw on the cards.

[benjii]

I think he needs to be played our best hope is that Tadic and Gabbi get the sort of partnership going that Tadic had with Pelle that only comes with consistent game time.

 

Gabbi and Pelle are very different players. Gabbi needs the ball released more quickly.

[doddisalegend]

Gabbi and Pelle are very different players. Gabbi needs the ball released more quickly.

 

I'm not saying Gabbi is the same as Pelle (although Pelle got his fair share of goals from well timed through balls he wasn't all headers at the back post) but I still maintain we get the best out of Tadic and Gabbi if those two can get an understanding of each others game. Of all the players we have in the team I still reckon Tadic is the most likely to supply the right ammo for Gabbi. What ever we need to cut out the endless crap crosses into the box to get the best out of forward line.

[Graffito]

Gabbiadini wants the ball early. I've seen it in every match. He moves but doesn't get the ball. I posted a while back something which struck me as excellent advice. Guardiola advised Romeo, always look long first. If you look long you'll see the long ball and the short ball. If you look short you see only the short ball. It's advice our team would do well to follow in any circumstances but especially if we are to play to Gabbiadin's strengths.

[shurlock]

I'm not saying Gabbi is the same as Pelle (although Pelle got his fair share of goals from well timed through balls he wasn't all headers at the back post) but I still maintain we get the best out of Tadic and Gabbi if those two can get an understanding of each others game. Of all the players we have in the team I still reckon Tadic is the most likely to supply the right ammo for Gabbi. What ever we need to cut out the endless crap crosses into the box to get the best out of forward line.

 

They seemed to click when they played close to each other -Gabbi's goal run coincided with Tadic playing in the no.10 role (and JWP moving to the right). Tadic is a mystery: at times he looks like he could flourish in that position; at others, indeed often, he looks like a complete fish out of water there.