Fraser Forster is he at the level we require?

[Mr X]

Seems to be able to pull of the odd good save every now & then but why is he so horrendous at the simple stuff? Dealing with crosses, dealing with weaker shots, commanding his area & actually communicating with the defense, kicking a ball not out of play or straight to opposition etc

 

Do you think we should be looking for a new keeper or is the best still yet to come from Fraser? Are there any better options even available?

 

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[Dazza82]

This is a boring debate now. Yes he is good enough for us. Bet you think he was at fault for the goals at the weekend

 

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[Mr X]

This is a boring debate now. Yes he is good enough for us. Bet you think he was at fault for the goals at the weekend

 

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Not all of them but he could certainly have done better with one of them

 

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[Smirking_Saint]

Hard to blame him for any of the goals at the weekend really, the first wasnt the best parry but he saw it late and his defence let him down badly. Other than that he had a good game.

 

He is our best option for now, without spending rediculous money.

 

He really isnt horrendous at the simple stuff, he looked a lot better thanhis englis counterpart for me this weekend, were you there ?

 

Posting inflammatory threads/posts and massive knee jerks negatively against our players seems to be your go to thing

[niceandfriendly]

Of course he's not, it's not worth pretending that he is just to avoid bashing the club. But he's the best we've got at the moment so we need to get behind him.

[lloydie]

He isn't good enough. But, I also cannot see us signing anyone better. Would be interesting to see what McCarthy is like at some point.

[tajjuk]

I don't get the criticism of him, he made a really good save in the first half, his block for the header he tipped onto the bar was stunning and he was unlucky the rebound went straight to Hernandez.

 

As for the goal he seems to being criticised for, well for a start it came through some bodies but also watch it again, it deflect's off Cedric's heal so for him to save it full stop was pretty good and most of the criticism IMO should be directed at Romeu for being turned by Antonio so easily and Bertrand for being asleep and not getting to the rebound. He'd clearly switched off.

 

What also impressed me was after that parry he was very quickly up again to try to block Hernandez's shot (again reacted way more quickly than Bertrand did), which sadly he didn't, but I thought last year he wasn't doing that as much so they seem to have worked on his speed a bit, I think he was probably not fit last year and was carrying a bit too much muscle mass which made him a bit ponderous at times and less agile.

 

Like someone above said, he was better than Joe Hart was, he looks a better keeper to me than the one Man City have just signed for £35 million.

 

Let's be honest we are not going to get a Czech or De Gea or Lloris (who has been making more errors of late) at the club, but from the rest of the premier league keepers who is honestly better? Butland would be the only clear one and there is no way we are getting him, they will sell him for £40-50 million I reckon. Pickford? cost £30 million and IMO is still very raw.

 

Then you have people like Mignolet, Hart, Ederson, Schmeichel, Foster etc. He's certainly not worse than that lot and IMO better.

 

Find the whole thing weird IMO, he didn't have a great season last year but he's a very good GK and we wouldn't get better without spending £40-50 million or taking the risk on someone unproven.

[Batman]

I think he is pretty decent.

Not perfect but very decent

 

 

Butland (imo) is the best English keeper at the moment.

Can see him at united/Arsenal within 2 years

[DT]

I think he does that 'standing still because there's nothing he can do about such a worldie' far too often, when someone with less of a problem on mobility might actually try and get to the ball. I think he's not great at coming off his line. Also fairly poor at distribution. And catching. Apart from that he's brilliant.

[Miltonaggro]

Would like to see McCarthy get games at some point as he certainly has the pedigree to be competition for Forster, but it would be a case of whether the manager has the bottle to make that decision - the bumper contract suggests Reed and Co. see him very much as our number one. I think FF is the epitome of a confidence player, so if we can get Hoedt and Van Dijk in front of him and perhaps a new attacking option to provide some consistency and cohesion in the final third we can forget the frailties for a while.

[Tom & Gerry]

I think some are being incredibly harsh on Fraser. With the first goal he had a fraction of a second to deal with a hard shot with a light ball at full stretch. Try to turn it round the post and there is a danger you will get too weak a hand on it and it will end up in the net, get too strong a hand on it and it can go back to the opposition, it's really down to luck and every goalkeeper can and does get it wrong sometimes.

[Harry_SFC]

He's probably lower half premier league level. It's definitely a position that can be improved upon however I can't see that happening any time soon.

[Ultimatt]

He's started this season much better. Would still like to see him come off his line for crosses more but we probably need to accept he'll never do that. Hopefully he can keep his shot stopping form up as he'll definitely be tested more this season than last.

[vectraman]

The reason we conceded two goals at the weekend was not because our keeper is poor.

It is because our defending was poor.

Lets not make up facts so we can blame the keeper again.

Lets ignore his excellent save into his chest from a close range first half header, the fact that we allowed Antonio to turn and shoot far too easily in our box, the fact it deflected before getting to a (I'm fairly sure) unsighted Forster who would have seen it late, and lets ignore that our defenders were nowhere to be seen to get to the rebound first. Lets also ignore the excellent save from the unmarked by our defenders Sakho which he was unlucky to see come off of the bar straight to Hernandez, who to give him credit was sharp.

 

So, if it fits that you want to blame the keeper, carry on. On Saturday, I don't see how he was to blame. Last season, yes, he had some terrible games, Saturday was not one.

I would like to see him be a bit more like Joe Hart with balls into the box - Hart I thought made some good punches clear that I know Fraser wouldn't have come for, but culpability for the goals conceded, no way!!

[spyinthesky]

I think some are being incredibly harsh on Fraser. With the first goal he had a fraction of a second to deal with a hard shot with a light ball at full stretch. Try to turn it round the post and there is a danger you will get too weak a hand on it and it will end up in the net, get too strong a hand on it and it can go back to the opposition, it's really down to luck and every goalkeeper can and does get it wrong sometimes.

 

I agree with this

 

To my mind Forster has been harshly treated by some posters on here.

 

Keepers are always prone to mistakes.

 

Lloris at Spurs has been consistently good but was criticised for Chelsea's second goal yesterday and I am sure Forster would also have been taken to task by some on here for letting in Chelsea's first if he had been on the pitch.

 

Forster is by no means perfect, his distribution is sometime wayward and he doesn't command his box too well (but there again which keepers do in the modern game?) and he is not quick on his feet.

 

However I would rather spend money on strengthening our defence and midfield than splash the cash on a replacement keeper

 

I have seen many Saints keepers in my time (going back to the 50's) and Forster, in my opinion, rates in the top 5 only behind the likes of Shilton, Niemi and Flowers and possibly Jones

 

Collectively we have form as Saints supporters criticising keepers.

 

Boruc and Kelvin Davis in recent years spring to mind and there have been others in years past.

[captainchris]

Two things have stood out player wise over the last year.

FF is not good enough and Tadic should be nowhere near a penalty.....

[Marsdinho]

If I was given the choice of keeping Forster or spending 20+m on a replacement, id rather keep the 20+m...as he is fine for our level.

 

However, I would put him in that group of players such as Jack Wilshere and Luke Shaw, where their natural ability can only get them so far. They lack the intelligence to take on what is being asked of them by their coaches / manager.

[angelman]

7) Forster and Hart do themselves few favours

Fraser Forster and Joe Hart could end up doing Jack Butland’s work for him at this rate, ahead of the World Cup in Russia next year, with neither goalkeeper covering themselves in glory at St Mary’s. West Ham’s porous defence hardly helped Hart, now beaten seven times in just two matches, but he again looked a shadow of his former dominating self. Forster was oddly rewarded with a shiny new five-year deal in July despite a shaky time last term. In fairness to Forster, he made a superb save to deny Diafra Sakho before Javier Hernández swept home his second goal and credit must go to the West Ham striker for reacting quickest inside the box. But there is no doubt that the giant 6ft 7in goalkeeper is not quite at his formidable best. The Everton goalkeeper Jordan Pickford, another option for England, could also jump in front of the pair in the pecking order. Ben Fisher

https://www.theguardian.com/football/blog/2017/aug/21/premier-league-10-talking-points-weekends-action

 

Can't disagree with this, although I think it a little harsh to wonder why he was given a 5 year extension.

[Tom & Gerry]

There's only one position on the pitch where arguably we could not do better and unfortunately he doesn't want to play for us at present.

[Baird of the land]

Pretty happy with both our keepers to be honest.

Hoping Mccarthy gets a run in the cups to show what he can do & stays clear of injuries this year. Rated him a lot when he was at reading.

Fraser is a good keeper for a club of our level. Last season he played well below his previous standards whether due to injury or form but with mccarthy injured our options were limited. Fraser made some good saves at the weekend. I blame the defence more for not covering the deflected shot parry.

[Appy]

No better than Boruc for me, seems to make the easy things look difficult, like catching the ball and making routine saves.

[John B]

Since he has just signed a five year contract I think the club are happy with him.

 

Just another whingeing thread moaning about our players

[Manuel]

There were times last season when he was very poor and struggled to save anything. Anything low was in, and some very odd and costly set piece decisions. I do wonder if he was nursing an injury and if so, hopefully all that's in the past.

[saint1977]

The reason we conceded two goals at the weekend was not because our keeper is poor.

It is because our defending was poor.

Lets not make up facts so we can blame the keeper again.

Lets ignore his excellent save into his chest from a close range first half header, the fact that we allowed Antonio to turn and shoot far too easily in our box, the fact it deflected before getting to a (I'm fairly sure) unsighted Forster who would have seen it late, and lets ignore that our defenders were nowhere to be seen to get to the rebound first. Lets also ignore the excellent save from the unmarked by our defenders Sakho which he was unlucky to see come off of the bar straight to Hernandez, who to give him credit was sharp.

 

So, if it fits that you want to blame the keeper, carry on. On Saturday, I don't see how he was to blame. Last season, yes, he had some terrible games, Saturday was not one.

I would like to see him be a bit more like Joe Hart with balls into the box - Hart I thought made some good punches clear that I know Fraser wouldn't have come for, but culpability for the goals conceded, no way!!

 

I agree, as well as the poor defending leading up to the first goal, the shot took a deflection off Cedric which would have made the spin and very difficult to control. Don't get me wrong, FF had some stinkers last season but I didn't see obvious mistakes on Sat bar not being stronger off his line. Thought he played better than Hart - although Hart had some rubbish in front of him - and both played better than Lloris who capped a shaky game with an appalling mistake at the end v Alonso and he wasn't all that last term either. If FF had let that in all hell would have broken loose on here. Bertrand was sleeping also (possibly not fully fit post-Swansea) and Hernandez was much quicker in his reactions.

 

Second goal was entirely down to centre halves letting the ball travel too far (should the ball have come in so easily?) and not for the first time in the game. Fortunate that Andy Carroll was injured. FF actually made a marvellous save from Sahko but Hernandez reacted whilst our defenders were thinking.

 

Defending is a team art - we wanted a more expansive game than Puel so some short-term issues to deal with in enabling this whilst MP gets us organised how he wants.

[angelman]

Pretty happy with both our keepers to be honest.

Hoping Mccarthy gets a run in the cups to show what he can do & stays clear of injuries this year. Rated him a lot when he was at reading.

Fraser is a good keeper for a club of our level. Last season he played well below his previous standards whether due to injury or form but with mccarthy injured our options were limited. Fraser made some good saves at the weekend. I blame the defence more for not covering the deflected shot parry.

 

The only question really is whether McCarthy is better than Forster.

[saint1977]

The only question really is whether McCarthy is better than Forster.

 

If he's ever fit for any length of time, we might find out! Pretty sure he'd have got a run at some point last season.

[simo]

On his day

[IFHP]

Is it not a catch 22?

 

No team in the top 6 or 7 are going to come in for him, the reason - he's not good enough for them. If he was he wouldnt still be here.

 

He's good enough for a team who are going to finsh below 7th .

[simo]

What frustrates me is that for a giant of his size he doesn't really command his area , he lacks some agression Imo!

[tajjuk]

If you don't get the criticism, you aren't paying enough attention. This isn't a scapegoat or an unpopular player, he seems a nice guy and everyone wants him to do well. But there's little point pretending it's poor form. He's been very consistent since he joined us. The odd good save, but ultimately the vast majority of clean sheets coming due to zero or very few shots on target from the opposition. The moment Schneiderlin and Wanyama were gone it became more difficult, and now without VVD clean sheets will probably rely on a poor opposition attack.

 

Forster is just painfully slow. From day 1, he can't get down to shots quick enough, can't move his feet to get around the goal or readjust, so most his saves involve stretching from standing position rather than quick feet. These things won't improve. What should be worked on, is his decision making and confidence coming off his line. With his height he should be dominating the box and coming to claim everything. Then he'd take the pressure off more.

 

But the club have clearly committed to him so we're sticking with him for a few years yet.

 

As for not being worse than Ederson....have you seen him? Bizarre label so quickly. Forster is not as good as Schmeichel, nowhere near, and Mignolet makes a lot more saves. Hart is probably same level now. Used to be far far better than Forster but he's really lost it it seems.

 

I hope he has a good season but I don't think I'd put Forster in the division's top 12. IMO Cech, Mignolet, Courtois, Begovic, Butland, De Gea, Romero, Ederson, Heaton, Lloris, Pickford and Schmeichel are all better. Foster probably is too really. Forster is similar level to Fabianski and Gomes ie. they'll do, they won't be the reason you go down or anything, but they'll cost you some points.

 

No I'm paying enough attention I just think you know very little about goalkeeping.

 

As for Ederson I've seen him a few times before and didn't impress there, looks very much like another Bravo to me (albeit much younger with potential) in that he's being valued for his footballing ability over his actual ability to be a goalkeeper and he's been far from convincing in his first few games nor pre-season when I saw him. If we'd paid £35 million for him I'd be dissapointed, certainly would not swap him for Forster.

 

Your first comment is utter nonsense 'the odd good save' pah. As for the speed thing, as I said above he was very quick in getting back up to try to block Hernanddez's shot, WAY quicker than our supposedly top class left back, so again your comments have very little to back them up.

 

Not better than Schmeichel? Did you watch him last year under Ranieiri? Let's be honest Huth and Morgan having excellent seasons the year before where they basically cleared everything anywhere near him, coupled with some lenient refereeing that allowed them to get away with some gamemanship, made it pretty easy for Schmiechel, last year he got exposed more and was shown to be what he is, a good shot stopper but nothing special.

 

I mean there is a reason he has bounced around the lower leagues for most of his career. He's not a top class keeper, he's a good one.

 

And then your other list? Mignolet is better? Romero? Seriously what are you smoking.

 

We have a good keeper, not a world class one but a consistently good one that makes most saves required of him and makes very few mistakes. I'll tell you now that Liverpool would be having far less problems with Forster in goal than Mignolet or Karius.

 

I think it highglights exactly how clueless most people are about goalkeeping that he got criticism for the weekend, when the guy made some excellent saves and was not at fault for any of the goals, but clueless people like you still criticise him.

 

 

 

The reason we conceded two goals at the weekend was not because our keeper is poor.

It is because our defending was poor.

Lets not make up facts so we can blame the keeper again.

Lets ignore his excellent save into his chest from a close range first half header, the fact that we allowed Antonio to turn and shoot far too easily in our box, the fact it deflected before getting to a (I'm fairly sure) unsighted Forster who would have seen it late, and lets ignore that our defenders were nowhere to be seen to get to the rebound first. Lets also ignore the excellent save from the unmarked by our defenders Sakho which he was unlucky to see come off of the bar straight to Hernandez, who to give him credit was sharp.

 

So, if it fits that you want to blame the keeper, carry on. On Saturday, I don't see how he was to blame. Last season, yes, he had some terrible games, Saturday was not one.

I would like to see him be a bit more like Joe Hart with balls into the box - Hart I thought made some good punches clear that I know Fraser wouldn't have come for, but culpability for the goals conceded, no way!!

 

 

This basically.

 

The criticism full stop is unfounded, but to criticise him after that game is frankly bizarre.

[Appy]

Is it not a catch 22?

 

No team in the top 6 or 7 are going to come in for him, the reason - he's not good enough for them. If he was he wouldnt still be here.

 

He's good enough for a team who are going to finsh below 7th .

 

Probably be a drop 22 with him.

[LaptopSaint]

If the point blank save from Sakho had gone over the bar rather than clipping it everyone would have said it was a worldie.

 

Wish he came off his line a bit more though.

[Dangermouth]

Wasn't it the case that Forster didn't play football at all until he was 14? Then he turned up and got put in goal because Newcastle were short and made a career of it. He can make reaction saves that are chest-high and above well; he doesn't look/act like a keeper i.e. he's not a flexible, fit, gymnastic type like Butland (who is our best keeper); etc. I had thought McCarthy would replace him because he was (at least early on in his career at Reading) a natural goalie and one who was very good. I agree with the assessment that he'll do enough to keep his job and make a few headlines, but he's not a goalkeeper at the top of his game (I think even Foster at WBA is better) and it is and has been our defensive organisation (thanks Ronald) which has helped with the clean sheets more than any brilliance on his part.

[Lord Duckhunter]

He's average.

 

 

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[saint97]

Simple answer.. No.

[rooney]

No Anti Niemi, more Paul Jones.

[tajjuk]

Our defence is poor but that can't take away from Forster softly palming a very average shot straight into the danger area. If a keeper can't hold a shot like that, the priority is getting it clear of danger. He completely failed with that.

 

It's fine to think he's good enough, but let's not gloss over clear errors. He won't have been happy with that goal, the coaches won't have been happy with that goal, and it changed the game.

 

But then you are creating an error that never happened, not really sure what game you are watching but I'd suggest getting your eyes checked.

 

Go watch it again, there are players in front of him, the shot is low and hard, gets a late deflection off Cedric and he still gets a full hand to it, at that point it's a good save and the team should have done better to help him out, specifically Betrand. I very much hope he wasn't happy with it because it shows he has very high standards and wants to keep improving.

 

But the claim it as an 'error' is plain stupidity or just biased agenda lacking objectivity.

[ALWAYS_SFC]

But then you are creating an error that never happened, not really sure what game you are watching but I'd suggest getting your eyes checked.

 

Go watch it again, there are players in front of him, the shot is low and hard, gets a late deflection off Cedric and he still gets a full hand to it, at that point it's a good save and the team should have done better to help him out, specifically Betrand. I very much hope he wasn't happy with it because it shows he has very high standards and wants to keep improving.

 

But the claim it as an 'error' is plain stupidity or just biased agenda lacking objectivity.

 

Good try Tajjuk in trying to educate but some have made up there mind regarding Forster and no amount of explanation or visual evidence will alter it, they have an agenda and will stick with it...

[pangy]

I can't ever remember seeing a keeper rooted to the spot as much as him,there is occasions in every match a ball will come in and he is like a statue,don't get me wrong he has pulled off some world class saves,but you remember the ones he doesn't save as opposed to the ones he does.

The sunday league to world class in 1 second at Anfield for the semi last season would pretty much sum him up all over for me

[Saint_clark]

Bizarrely timed thread given that so far this season he looks to have slimmed down a lot to aid mobility, has come out for crosses/through balls more and has improved his quick distribution with kicks/throwing.

[Lord Duckhunter]

Wouldn't be surprised if he's left out of the England squad Thursday. If that happens perhaps some on here will wake up and smell the coffee.

 

 

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[View From The Top]

He's just signed a massive new contract so only an utter idiot thinks we are going to sign a "better" keeper but it's nice to see the forum wa_nk stains have found a new boo boy for this season, that is until Boufal fu_cks up as it would appear people are itching to boo him too.

 

FWIW he's an average keeper IMHO but they way some people prattle on you'd think he was the worse keeper in the history of football.

[benjii]

Bizarrely timed thread given that so far this season he looks to have slimmed down a lot to aid mobility, has come out for crosses/through balls more and has improved his quick distribution with kicks/throwing.

 

His quick kicks are utter ****e.

 

I agree with the general gist though... he looks sharper so far this season.

[BARCELONASAINT]

The constant bashing of Forster really irritates me. He certainly IS good enough for us and was not at fault for either goal on Saturday. The first was entirely our defence fault. He saw it late and still made a smart save, unfortunately it fell to a goal poacher. The second was a fantastic reaction save onto the bar and again so unlucky the poacher was there again.

I wonder how many of you the criticise Forster have ever been goalkeepers? I can tell you from experience and still playing in that position at 52 that it is the most loneliest position on the pitch.

One mistake and you have cost your team a goal and possibly the match. All the outfield players can make mistake after mistake and still have 10 of their team mates to clear up...not so for the poor goalkeeper.

 

If Forster is anything like me he probably beats himself up about every goal he concedes thinking he could have done better. It is a massive confidence position....just take Joe Hart for a moment....he's certainly not lacking in ability but you can see his confidence is shot.

 

Forster is OUR keeper. Encourage him and cheer him.....save your criticism for someone that has no loyalty!!!

[striker]

I really don't understand how some can blame him for the 2 WHU goals. He made tough saves on each shot, no way he could control where the ball went. I blame the backs more for not being there to clear it.

[Forester]

I think he is pretty decent.

Not perfect but very decent

 

 

Butland (imo) is the best English keeper at the moment.

Can see him at united/Arsenal within 2 years

I agree with all of this. I think Fraser has started the season well looking fitter and more proactive. Did well Saturday and very unlucky that they were quicker to react to second ball than our defenders

[Pass the Dutchie]

7) Forster and Hart do themselves few favours

 

Fraser Forster and Joe Hart could end up doing Jack Butland’s work for him at this rate, ahead of the World Cup in Russia next year, with neither goalkeeper covering themselves in glory at St Mary’s. West Ham’s porous defence hardly helped Hart, now beaten seven times in just two matches, but he again looked a shadow of his former dominating self. Forster was oddly rewarded with a shiny new five-year deal in July despite a shaky time last term. In fairness to Forster, he made a superb save to deny Diafra Sakho before Javier Hernández swept home his second goal and credit must go to the West Ham striker for reacting quickest inside the box. But there is no doubt that the giant 6ft 7in goalkeeper is not quite at his formidable best. The Everton goalkeeper Jordan Pickford, another option for England, could also jump in front of the pair in the pecking order. Ben Fisher

 

https://www.theguardian.com/football/blog/2017/aug/21/premier-league-10-talking-points-weekends-action

[stknowle]

I really don't understand how some can blame him for the 2 WHU goals. He made tough saves on each shot, no way he could control where the ball went. I blame the backs more for not being there to clear it.

 

While the first was in no way an horrendous howler a real top level keeper pushes it wide and away from danger. 2nd he did well to save. Agree defenders didn't help on either.

It shouldn't be forgotten that he went 6 consecutive games without conceding when he first came back from injury the season before last, he was outstanding against Arsenal during that run, so he obviously has it in him. If we can get that Fraser back on a consistent basis then fine, and he does look leaner and possibly a bit more mobile so far this season. Regardless though a keeper of his size's biggest strength should be dominating his area and claiming crosses comfortably but, if anything, that's his biggest weakness.

[danjosaint]

I remember about a thread possibly last year where somebody in the no (can't remember if it was scout/coach) said it was done to he has poor footwork, this has stemmed from Newcastle days and something happened by chance that he got the Newcastle job. The poor footwork is the root cause for not only getting down for low shots (positioning of feet)but for coming and dominating box. The saves that look great are just when he spreads his frame and generally just hit him, atnautivic header, arsenal couple seasons ago etc. I sort of agree with most 'he's ok' could we do better? Probably but the club after the new deal won't pursue that, hopefully McCarthy can stay fit and push Fraser on

[DT]

Clean sheets are not a very good indicator of a keeper's ability. A stick of rhubarb would keep a clean sheet behind a brilliant defence and midfield playing a poor attack.

 

 

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