Saints 0 Wolves 2 (Carabao Cup)

[sotonjoe]

Well you didn't say that did you, you inferred that real fans are the ones who are posting the OTT reactions thus trying to make me out as some sort of cyber apologist who isn't a real fan. This isn't a contest about who is the bigger fan, you've done this with me before for some reason - it's irrelevant, we all support the same team.

 

I'm not making any obvious excuses for tonight, I've admitted that it was shambolic and shocking. But it's done, it's gone, it's put to bed. The players will put this behind them and we need to forget it as well. I didn't suggest Huddersfield will be an easy win what so ever, I said I'd expect a much better performance. There are reasons and debates to be had as to why we were poor and it could go on and on and on, but I've been to the first two games of this season and I have seen an improvement - the people who sit around me have seen an improvement, I can see positive approaches and changes in what we're trying to do. Tonight seemed quite a distance away from what we've dished up this season to me.

 

Tonight's done, it was horrible. MP isn't a mug and I'm sure he will be ripping into a few of those lads tonight, but they will move onto Saturday as we should.

 

Writers imply. Readers infer.

Get it right, moron.

 

 

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[Give it to Ron]

So its clear we have no cover, Pied shocking tries but no quality. No pace or running so JWP went back to crab football and bottling challenges.

Boufal was trying but just not coming off and crowd dont give him a chance yet Tadic does bugger all but waves his arms and plays 90 every week.

Austin alienated fish out of water no support.

Early days for MOPE but he sits on his arms until its too late needs to up his game.

Should have changed at half time not wait until they score.

Rubbish but not surprised Augsberg showed tge deficiencies tonight underlined them.

No pace or power or quality and not players to play that formation.

 

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[Shroppie]

How many consecutive games has Boufal started for us in the Premier league?

 

I actually don't know the answer. Anyone?

 

Seems few to me. Surely spending big on an attacker and giving up on them before they've started 10-15 games is ridiculous. That's the west ham way.

 

But you can't pick him when he performs like he did tonight.

 

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[Batman]

got to laugh. MP saying he went 3 at the back to match wolves..... At home

 

[ALWAYS_SFC]

In the immediate aftermath of a game you are likely to get people with exaggerated reactions - bad when you lose and good when you win. Everyone knows it. People need a chance to vent. They don't want to be told they are wrong or to calm down. It's a chance to express frustration.

 

I didn't see the game but found it interesting that by my reckoning at some point every starter got a slating bar McQueen and Yoshida. It sounded like the players weren't comfortable with the formation and when that is the case they really do crawl back into their shells playing safe and uninspiring football and this resulted in a bad performance. A lack of leadership in this team tonight meant dragging us to a win was never going to happen.

 

I'm ok with mistakes being made but the secret to success is to learn from them quickly. Please never Boufal and Tadic in the same team (two players who are failing to impress) and hopefully whatever formation it was tonight (3-5-2 or 3-4-3) goes back to being a work in progress and only used when the players are either comfortable with it or better players are plugged into it.

 

I still struggle to see how the balance of the team can be right with the personnel we have. There is a lack of compatibility in many areas of the game and I do genuinely think it is a player issue rather than coaching issue. But I suppose time will tell with that one.

 

Anger and frustration is one thing but some of the reactions are ridiculous and I really believe some relish the chance

to do so.....

[OttawaSaint]

Writing already on the wall for Pellegrino. And maybe Uncle Les this time too

 

You've gotta stop drinking from those Alpine streams. There must be some nasty toxic goat **** in them.

[OttawaSaint]

got to laugh. MP saying he went 3 at the back to match wolves..... At home

 

��

 

Admit it, you are absolutely loving this.

[CB Fry]

got to laugh. MP saying he went 3 at the back to match wolves..... At home

 

In fairness they had made ten changes so we had to try and outsmart their big guns.

[Fitzhugh Fella]

Well you didn't say that did you, you inferred that real fans are the ones who are posting the OTT reactions thus trying to make me out as some sort of cyber apologist who isn't a real fan. This isn't a contest about who is the bigger fan, you've done this with me before for some reason - it's irrelevant, we all support the same team.

 

I'm not making any obvious excuses for tonight, I've admitted that it was shambolic and shocking. But it's done, it's gone, it's put to bed. The players will put this behind them and we need to forget it as well. I didn't suggest Huddersfield will be an easy win what so ever, I said I'd expect a much better performance. There are reasons and debates to be had as to why we were poor and it could go on and on and on, but I've been to the first two games of this season and I have seen an improvement - the people who sit around me have seen an improvement, I can see positive approaches and changes in what we're trying to do. Tonight seemed quite a distance away from what we've dished up this season to me.

 

Tonight's done, it was horrible. MP isn't a mug and I'm sure he will be ripping into a few of those lads tonight, but they will move onto Saturday as we should.

 

Sorry again I have got to disagree. In your heart of hearts have you really been impressed with our displays in our first two games? I have not. Hardly anything has changed or has it, this time last year we were still in 3 cups and now we have just one. You keep looking for positives and yet that is hardly progress. forgive me tonight if I am just a little gloomy that we are being run competently.

[OttawaSaint]

Lightening does not strike twice..... Right?

 

Surely old Leslie hasn't ****ed up another management appointment?

 

Early days still but signs aren't great. Swansea, WHU and tonights performances don't bode well.

 

Another one bursting with glee. Pathetic.

[doddisalegend]

I don't know why people think Boufal is going to make an impact he is just bloody Fabrice Fernandes mk 2

[tobes8]

Why on earth play 3 at the back against a championship side. If you play that you need expansive and pacy wing backs. Pied and McQueen offered very little. Pied not good enough whatsoever. The worrying thing going forwards is that everyone could see it wasn't working and it took till 70 mins before pellegrino did.

Austin had absolutely not service at all, playing and extra player in defence left us woefully short everywhere else.

[Appy]

Yoshida and Stephens are fine I thought?

[Micky]

Writers imply. Readers infer.

Get it right, moron.

 

 

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So he has one word wrong, on a football internet forum post, and because of that you feel the need to label him a moron. Any idea how that makes people perceive you?

 

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[ALWAYS_SFC]

Another one bursting with glee. Pathetic.

 

Thankfully we only have to put up with it 3 times a day for now at least

[tobes8]

Tomorrow get Virgil back training with the first team....forget what's happened because our defence is a liability from set peices and corners.

[Sour Mash]

Why do we prioritise league over cup. I can understand teams right at the top and bottom doing it, but what's the point with us?

[broncoboy]

Anger and frustration is one thing but some of the reactions are ridiculous and I really believe some relish the chance

to do so.....

 

The football has been crap since last December. The inability of Tadic Redmond David JWP to provide a service to the man upfront and their inability to score themselves will put us in the relegation zone. The stats don't lie bugger all goals from open plsy since December. If we don't chsnge the starting lineup it womg chsnge. .Tsdic should be dropped and Redmond and Lomg should leave the club

[Sour Mash]

That's Austin though, always has been. He'll grab a few if attackers around him are playing well and creating but we're a poorer team with him in it. Sounds harsh but there's a reason his QPR side got stuffed most weeks and few teams wanted to sign him, it wasn't all about injuries. He's an old school player and not convinced he fits our style at all.

 

Gabbiadini has so much more ability and movement, just hope he stays fit. Would even start Long before Austin for the movement, especially in away games but god knows if he'll ever find scoring form again.

Agreed. Bizarre people only spotting Austin's short comings now.

[Roger]

He's 23 and he's started 12 Premier League games.

 

If we're writing people off on that then we're screwed.

 

Fernandez was class at times. Would take him ever being that level. Short memories.

[Fitzhugh Fella]

When Saints screw up badly, like they have tonight, would it not be a good idea if all the pious happy clappy club apologists took a few hours off to let the ones that really suffer in the real world to wallow in our collective misery, without being preached to or patronised. Nothing worse than a happy clappy or a fan in denial on a night like this.

[maysie]

When Saints screw up badly, like they have tonight, would it not be a good idea if all the pious happy clappy club apologists took a few hours off to let the ones that really suffer in the real world to wallow in our collective misery, without being preached to or patronised. Nothing worse than a happy clappy or a fan in denial on a night like this.

 

I live in the real world, I'm a club historian. It is gritty, I write my books on a f'in typewriter.

 

And I apologise to no one.

[hackedoff]

When Saints screw up badly, like they have tonight, would it not be a good idea if all the pious happy clappy club apologists took a few hours off to let the ones that really suffer in the real world to wallow in our collective misery, without being preached to or patronised. Nothing worse than a happy clappy or a fan in denial on a night like this.

I think it is just down to them being happy with second best in their lives.

[LGTL]

Poch had an almighty cup nightmare (Sunderland), Koeman had loads, let's just hope MP has got his out of the way quickly.

[broncoboy]

Writing players off. They did that themselves

[SuperSAINT]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2017/08/23/southampton-0-wolves-2mauricio-pellegrino-will-not-panic-saints/

[Give it to Ron]

Tomorrow get Virgil back training with the first team....forget what's happened because our defence is a liability from set peices and corners.

No chance that will happen. Seems we have 1 bid from a club we dont want to sell to.

Rock and a hard place we need better players but what do you do if no-one wants a Gardos, Clasie and maybe Hojberg not even on bench tonight.

 

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[ALWAYS_SFC]

When Saints screw up badly, like they have tonight, would it not be a good idea if all the pious happy clappy club apologists took a few hours off to let the ones that really suffer in the real world to wallow in our collective misery, without being preached to or patronised. Nothing worse than a happy clappy or a fan in denial on a night like this.

 

No one is being happy clappy you idiot just not condoning over reacting like school children

[shurlock]

So was Hoj injured or just dropped?

[saintsmike25]

Writing already on the wall for Pellegrino. And maybe Uncle Les this time too

 

Absolutely stupid comment, we played badly yes, particularly in the first ten minutes and the second half was possibly the worst I've seen us play for a long time. However, the set up was all wrong and our movement was terrible all night and we were far too negative with 3 CB's and by the time it changed in the second half it was too late.

Wolves played very well, they defended well and looked sharp all night and zippy when they decided to attack.

 

Ward-Prowse and Tadic were useless all night with the way they slowed us down.

Boufal had some bright flashes but too many times he was caught making poor decisions and his final ball was off.

Austin - Useless all night and should have been red carded. He looks so off the pace it's untrue.

Romeu - Played well at times but had a useless JWP next to him, so was often left doing the work of two men.

Bedanek - Played okay, wasn't awful just average.

Yoshida - Despite the scoreline he was by far and large our best player, very composed.

Stephens - made some silly decisions, not his best game.

Pied - Fairly poor all night, poor crossing and our right side was VERY weak, Tadic didn't cover him either.

McQueen - Very good first half and made some nice crosses, but needs more confidence, his crossing was good tonight.

Forster - Poor, should have saved the second goal.

 

Subs: Redmond, Gab, Long - didn't do anything of note.

 

The biggest issue was movement, we're far too slow to move the ball and one paced, we let the opposition set up and sit deep and when space opens up no-one has a shot.

 

But it's an isolated poor performance, not one that I will get too fussed about, the team didn't look motivated and were set up wrong, MoPo's experiment failed and a good thing it did because I hope we never go to a back three again if our movement is that poor. Also, it shows you how important Bertrand/Cedric are to how we play.

 

The worst player on the pitch was either Tadic/JWP, Jwp delivered some okay balls but as usual he was offering us nothing on the ball. Tadic looks a faded force, he's no longer the creative flair player that first joint us, he has lost his way and needs to be dropped for his own sake.

[S-Clarke]

So was Hoj injured or just dropped?

 

No word on it to be honest, doesn't seem to be listed as injured anywhere. He was in the U23 game a week or so ago, so it suggests he's around. I've seen him in the training pics too.

 

Bit odd. He's the sort of player I think is crying out for a run of games, would be a shame if he's just cast to the side.

[Shroppie]

Agreed. Bizarre people only spotting Austin's short comings now.

Totally this. If we're getting in an attacking player, it has to be to replace Austin. Not good enough.

 

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[Pedro]

Get MP before the board tomorrow to explain why he selected that team and formation. None of the starting 11 can complain if they are not selected for the first team on Saturday, trying to think if any player scored more that 5 out of 10. Forster must stretch, without jumping, to 8 foot yet him and our 3 centre backs allowed a free header fro a corner. I was really hopeful this manager would push on, let's hope he can improve on the performance pretty quick.

[Saint Jude]

Trying to find some positives for tonight....

 

There were a couple of nice moves between Boufal and McQueen in the last 15 minutes of the first half. Yoshida played solidly. Yep I think that's it.

 

It was like watching England. We look scared of making a mistake, and no movement. I know we played 3 at the back.. but no idea what formation we were playing in front of that...they all looked very confused.

 

Forster looks like he's used botox on his whole body, so that he looks like his whole body can only move in a fixed motion...

 

the whole thing was immensely frustrating. Wolves fans sat in Corporate hospitality laughing their heads off and making rude signals to all the Saints fans around them...

[stug76]

When Saints screw up badly, like they have tonight, would it not be a good idea if all the pious happy clappy club apologists took a few hours off to let the ones that really suffer in the real world to wallow in our collective misery, without being preached to or patronised. Nothing worse than a happy clappy or a fan in denial on a night like this.

This post should get a prize!

 

Just back from the game, strange playing 5/3 at the back, didn't work at all. Having said that if we had Cedric and Bertrand on the pitch i think we win that match. Not many plusses - Bednarek seemed to grow into the game after a shaky start. Yoshida and Stephens were ok but with the full backs hugging the touchline and the widemen being out there too there was nobody as an outlet for the centre mids. We didnt move the ball quickly enough to get the width and when we did we didnt use it well enough.

 

Manager gets the blame for this one, but need to cut him some slack, it's early days yet.

 

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[Give it to Ron]

Absolutely stupid comment, we played badly yes, particularly in the first ten minutes and the second half was possibly the worst I've seen us play for a long time. However, the set up was all wrong and our movement was terrible all night and we were far too negative with 3 CB's and by the time it changed in the second half it was too late.

Wolves played very well, they defended well and looked sharp all night and zippy when they decided to attack.

 

Ward-Prowse and Tadic were useless all night with the way they slowed us down.

Boufal had some bright flashes but too many times he was caught making poor decisions and his final ball was off.

Austin - Useless all night and should have been red carded. He looks so off the pace it's untrue.

Romeu - Played well at times but had a useless JWP next to him, so was often left doing the work of two men.

Bedanek - Played okay, wasn't awful just average.

Yoshida - Despite the scoreline he was by far and large our best player, very composed.

Stephens - made some silly decisions, not his best game.

Pied - Fairly poor all night, poor crossing and our right side was VERY weak, Tadic didn't cover him either.

McQueen - Very good first half and made some nice crosses, but needs more confidence, his crossing was good tonight.

Forster - Poor, should have saved the second goal.

 

Subs: Redmond, Gab, Long - didn't do anything of note.

 

The biggest issue was movement, we're far too slow to move the ball and one paced, we let the opposition set up and sit deep and when space opens up no-one has a shot.

 

But it's an isolated poor performance, not one that I will get too fussed about, the team didn't look motivated and were set up wrong, MoPo's experiment failed and a good thing it did because I hope we never go to a back three again if our movement is that poor. Also, it shows you how important Bertrand/Cedric are to how we play.

 

The worst player on the pitch was either Tadic/JWP, Jwp delivered some okay balls but as usual he was offering us nothing on the ball. Tadic looks a faded force, he's no longer the creative flair player that first joint us, he has lost his way and needs to be dropped for his own sake.

Agree with all of that. Cannot see why we didnt change it sooner.

Whispering Dave spot on Radio Solent.

 

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[Micky]

When Saints screw up badly, like they have tonight, would it not be a good idea if all the pious happy clappy club apologists took a few hours off to let the ones that really suffer in the real world to wallow in our collective misery, without being preached to or patronised. Nothing worse than a happy clappy or a fan in denial on a night like this.

No, it wouldn't be a good idea. We lost, it isn't the first, nor will it be the last time. There's suffering, and then there's total overreaction. We get far too much of the latter on here by the usual suspects. We are all fans, we all feel it, but there really is no need to go over three top 3 games into the new season.

 

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[warsash saint]

When Saints screw up badly, like they have tonight, would it not be a good idea if all the pious happy clappy club apologists took a few hours off to let the ones that really suffer in the real world to wallow in our collective misery, without being preached to or patronised. Nothing worse than a happy clappy or a fan in denial on a night like this.

 

From one of the best posters on here, to a bedwetter reaching Alpine proportions..... Shame!

[sammysaint]

Tonight proved my points I have mentioned so many times on this board, Stephens and McQueen are over rated and not good enough, we need to loan them out asap and let them get better or move on, HOW MANY times does Stephens let us down from marking or following his man, he's terrible at it, McQueen is too slow and gets rinsed at LB.

 

Not saying they were the worse players tonight, but they wasn't the best.

[SaveloyMush]

Well, that's one less thing to worry about.

 

Given the run to Wembley last year, was Puel secretly brought back to coach the Cup teams? After all, no-one seems to know where of his whereabouts...It certainly felt like 2016 at times.

 

What was that formation? 3-6-1? I don't think the players had a clue who was supposed to be doing what.

 

Surely Tadic's appearance tonight was his last-chance interview, prior to being shipped out? He failed, by the way.

 

Romeu his usual one-man midfield machine; just as well, given that he seemed to be playing alone a lot of the time, both in defence and attack.

 

Ward-Prowse should never, ever play in central midfield again. He has bulked up somewhat in the last few years, but now appears too bulky for his frame and is slower than ever.

 

Bednarek looks a long, long way from Premier League quality.

 

McQueen didn't look like much of a defender tonight; he didn't look great as a winger, either. Let's hope he's just rusty, he was far better last season.

 

Pied looked good in pre-season, bar a few half-decent crosses tonight, he was woeful.

 

Austin? There seemed to be an inert, amorphous blob somewhere near the front of the formation, was that him?

 

And Wolves? Fair play to them, they were well drilled, stuck to their plan and had some nifty players offering proper football. If that was their second team, it's a good job Saints weren't up against their First XI...

[saintsmike25]

The fact is, on the night, the better side and more motivated side won. Looking at the issues our players ARE better than Wolves, but collectivily there was lots of poor decisions and most worrying was the movement or lack of.

And WHEN there is movement no players back themselves to make a pass. I hate to say it but when we went direct or tried to get in behind we caused more problems through just following up, when Boufal decided to be positive we looked good.

But these are professional players - by now JWP should be stamping his authority on his games with his so-called technical ability and switching play and hitting 60 yard passes - that's what Morgan did, JWP ALWAYS plays the "easy ball" when others are running off him, for a player that can hit a stunning dead ball for him to lack the ability or confidence to open defences up is a real shame.

 

Now moving on to Charlie Austin, his movement and mobility was poor. Of course he wasn't supplied well either, but he had a mare, their defenders had him in their pocket all game and he struggled to link with anyone. He did manage one good header, but for a Premiership striker, you'd expect him to be a threat even on a bad day - He wasn't.

 

I think Lemina will be a vital buy this season, i'd much rather a box-to-box type with physical presence than a Prowse in the centre of the park. Wolves were a big side and we were bullied far too often today - especially JWP/Tadic - in fairness to Boufal he had a great spell in the first half where he outstrengthed their players he is stronger than he looks.

[St Chalet]

Back from the game. Bizarre decision to play 3-5-2 to match them. I thoughts the CB's did ok. Delivery from Pied and McQueen not to the required standard. Boufal had some decent touches and adds something a bit different, how he got hooked instaead of the woeful Tadic I don't know. Austin didn't get any chances but didn't create anything either. JWP takes all the pace out of attacks and for a dead ball legend doesn't actually deliver goals or assists.

 

Finally Forster, I am sorry just not good enough. The first goal he stood there and the second was so slow off his line. Simply not good enough.

 

Play like that Saturday we'll still be on four points.

[OttawaSaint]

When Saints screw up badly, like they have tonight, would it not be a good idea if all the pious happy clappy club apologists took a few hours off to let the ones that really suffer in the real world to wallow in our collective misery, without being preached to or patronised. Nothing worse than a happy clappy or a fan in denial on a night like this.

 

For a self appointed Saints historian you'd think you'd be a bit more pragmatic.

 

Yes it was dire but it's the least important game of the season and the manager decided to try out a different formation. Poch and Koemsn got pilloried on here for no plan B and here is a manager trying something out that could come in useful against Premier League teams when we need to change things.

 

On to the next one. The sky hasn't fallen!

[Lord Duckhunter]

Has anyone blamed Eric Black yet?

 

 

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[Badger]

 

Finally Forster, I am sorry just not good enough. The first goal he stood there and the second was so slow off his line. Simply not good enough.

 

Play like that Saturday we'll still be on four points.

 

I was surprised and disappointed McCarthy didn't get a run out tonight.

 

Just don't understand how FF retains his place without a challenge, let alone why he was offered a contract extension.

[LGTL]

Still think Clasie is being underused

[Lighthouse]

I was curious as to how that system would work but not with those players. Boufal and Tadic can't play together, Austin has no pace at all, JWP was useless, Pied nowhere near good enough for that role.

 

The overall play was just so static. 5 defenders pinging around with no movement at all in front of them, just a bunch of lemons stood watching Yoshida and expecting him to magically scythe the defence open.

 

Another thing I don't get is why the only time we show any flare or adventure, it's playing 50 yard Hollywood passes, to our LB in his own half. What's he going to do with it there. And defending corners with 11 in our own box... at home... to Wolves... and still conceding... f**k me sideways!!

[Baird of the land]

What a mistake it was to go to that game.

 

Manager has to get the blame for putting out team in completely defensive shape & then sitting on his hands waiting for wolves to score before bothering to change anything.

 

Hard to see any positives in display. McQueen had some bright moments.

Let's just hope pellegrino learns from that debacle.

[Pass the Dutchie]

Wow, I don't know what was worse: the game or reading through this thread.

[Shroppie]

I was surprised and disappointed McCarthy didn't get a run out tonight.

 

Just don't understand how FF retains his place without a challenge, let alone why he was offered a contract extension.

I have to agree. FF's confidence looks completely shot. I'd go so far as to say with McCarthy in goal we could have won.

 

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