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Wesley Hoedt

St Chalet

By St Chalet,
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kwsaint

kwsaint

Posted
Posted
On 29/07/2020 at 18:28, Turkish said:

For starters gone 3-5-2 as struggled for both full back positions 
 

            Forecast

       
       Hoedt   Caulker   Steve Wood 

ripley   Palmer  Hughes Lemina Euell

       Beattie   Austin  

Manager Branfoot 

Would be tempted to put Beattie on the bench and replace him by Tin Man.  Or a pot of yogurt.

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SuperSAINT

SuperSAINT

Posted
Posted
2 minutes ago, S-Clarke said:

I have a feeling Wesley may be the only one we could get a 'potential' fee for, something in the region of 5m would be fine I think. Club need to lose their pride and accept the loss.

Nothing says Wesley Hoedt like him limping back to a league he referred to as Mickey Mouse.

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Turkish

Turkish

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, Nick75Sfc said:

Steve Wood is harsh..

And you have to include Paul Moodie, Lee Sinnott, David Speedie, Kerry Dixon 

Dan Seaborne was a bit of a helmet by all accounts. He should probably be in there ahead of Wood

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  • 2 weeks later...
Dusic

Dusic

Posted
Posted

Another loan, so will end up having Cedric, Clasie, Carillo, Hoedt, Lemina and Forster all likely leaving or having left on free transfers after being big money signings. All after being loaned out for multiple seasons with Saints still paying a solid chunk of their wages.

Best part of £100m wasted and thats without mentioning Vestergaard.

Wee Ross taken by Rangers and Les Reed working in a position of power at The FA. Madness.

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miserableoldgit

miserableoldgit

Posted
Posted
33 minutes ago, Dusic said:

Another loan, so will end up having Cedric, Clasie, Carillo, Hoedt, Lemina and Forster all likely leaving or having left on free transfers after being big money signings. All after being loaned out for multiple seasons with Saints still paying a solid chunk of their wages.

Best part of £100m wasted and thats without mentioning Vestergaard.

Wee Ross taken by Rangers and Les Reed working in a position of power at The FA. Madness.

Elyounoussi?

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Dusic

Dusic

Posted
Posted (edited)
23 minutes ago, miserableoldgit said:

Elyounoussi?

Will end up the same.

All these players are on too much money for teams who would want them to be able to buy and pay the wages so loan til end of contract is the only option.

At least with British players there is usually a market. For example even if Adams hadnt found form at the end of the season we could probably have got most of our money back from a top Champ team or promoted side.

Edited by Dusic
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Saint Pete

Saint Pete

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, Dusic said:

Will end up the same.

All these players are on too much money for teams who would want them to be able to buy and pay the wages so loan til end of contract is the only option.

At least with British players there is usually a market. For example even if Adams hadnt found form at the end of the season we could probably have got most of our money back from a top Champ team or promoted side.

Depends on the level of wages surely rather than whether they are British or otherwise? Presumably, Adams wages are not at such a prohibitively high level that it would put off other English clubs whereas with some of the other contracts we have given out either for new signings or the likes of Forster in contract extensions, they go beyond what other clubs are able or willing to pay for players not performing brilliantly currently. It’s the level of wages we have committed to for these substandard players that is the issue.

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tajjuk

tajjuk

Posted
Posted (edited)
13 hours ago, Dusic said:

Will end up the same.

All these players are on too much money for teams who would want them to be able to buy and pay the wages so loan til end of contract is the only option.

At least with British players there is usually a market. For example even if Adams hadnt found form at the end of the season we could probably have got most of our money back from a top Champ team or promoted side.

It's the double edged sword of being able to offer big wages to attract players, if the transfer doesn't work out (which lets be honest a lot don't its hardly just us) then you will struggle to off load them.

I mean look at people like Sanchez, Smalling, Jones at Utd, Bale and James at Real, Coutinho and others at Barca, all players who those clubs have or are struggling to off load because of wages and clubs not wanting to part with the transfer fees. 

The reason we have been able to get people in the past like Van Dijk, Mane, Forster, or more recent signings like Djenepo and Salisu is because PL wages are a big draw for players, we can offer as a mid level club wages that top clubs in the Dutch, French, Portuguese etc. leagues can't offer and more than mid level clubs in Germany or Spain can offer. 

Of course the advantage that brings becomes a disadvantage when those transfers go wrong and you need to get rid of those players they quite rightly don't want to take a big drop in wages. 

Most of these players were young players doing well and at the time wanted by other clubs, at the time they hardly looked like terrible signings (Carrillo aside) they just haven't worked out. 

They were IMO no different than Salisu or Djnepo that most people were excited about and equally could not work out, its just the way of transfers and the market. Most PL clubs have expensive flops, especially if they aren't top 6 level teams you have to gamble a bit on talents that might provide value for money. 

Hard IMO to be too critical on the club for the general approach, what else are we supposed to do? Sign rejects from the big 6 clubs, sure you might get a Bertrand, but you also might get a Wilshere or a Wellbeck, or god forbid a Lingaard, and we can't financially compete for Europe's top young talents, so you have to look at leagues like the Holland, France, Portugal, Austria, Switzerland, Belgium etc. for players who stand out and might step up. 

I am also not really sure why you put Cedric in there, he cost like £4 million and was a solid right back who then didn't want to sign a contract and we got some money for him at the end.

Hoedt was what like a 23 year old Netherlands International playing for Lazio, no at the time thought he would turn out this bad. 

I bet if you look back more people on here had doubts about Danny Ings than they did about Hoedt or someone like Boufal. 

I also think its important to note that most of these flop signings coincided with some terrible managerial appointments, who knows what players like Boufal or Hoedt might have done coming into a Ralph managed team? That is IMO where the real criticism lies, tranfers are always a gamble in the market we have to operate in but we should have known a lot about likes of Pellegrino or Hughes to know they were not very good. 

Edited by tajjuk
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S-Clarke

S-Clarke

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, tajjuk said:

It's the double edged sword of being able to offer big wages to attract players, if the transfer doesn't work out (which lets be honest a lot don't its hardly just us) then you will struggle to off load them.

I mean look at people like Sanchez, Smalling, Jones at Utd, Bale and James at Real, Coutinho and others at Barca, all players who those clubs have or are struggling to off load because of wages and clubs not wanting to part with the transfer fees. 

The reason we have been able to get people in the past like Van Dijk, Mane, Forster, or more recent signings like Djenepo and Salisu is because PL wages are a big draw for players, we can offer as a mid level club wages that top clubs in the Dutch, French, Portuguese etc. leagues can't offer and more than mid level clubs in Germany or Spain can offer. 

Of course the advantage that brings becomes a disadvantage when those transfers go wrong and you need to get rid of those players they quite rightly don't want to take a big drop in wages. 

Most of these players were young players doing well and at the time wanted by other clubs, at the time they hardly looked like terrible signings (Carrillo aside) they just haven't worked out. 

They were IMO no different than Salisu or Djnepo that most people were excited about and equally could not work out, its just the way of transfers and the market. Most PL clubs have expensive flops, especially if they aren't top 6 level teams you have to gamble a bit on talents that might provide value for money. 

Hard IMO to be too critical on the club for the general approach, what else are we supposed to do? Sign rejects from the big 6 clubs, sure you might get a Bertrand, but you also might get a Wilshere or a Wellbeck, or god forbid a Lingaard, and we can't financially compete for Europe's top young talents, so you have to look at leagues like the Holland, France, Portugal, Austria, Switzerland, Belgium etc. for players who stand out and might step up. 

I am also not really sure why you put Cedric in there, he cost like £4 million and was a solid right back who then didn't want to sign a contract and we got some money for him at the end.

Hoedt was what like a 23 year old Netherlands International playing for Lazio, no at the time thought he would turn out this bad. 

I bet if you look back more people on here had doubts about Danny Ings than they did about Hoedt or someone like Boufal. 

I agree with a lot of what you say, and there are definitely advantages and disadvantages with our approach. But one thing that is absolutely critical to our general approach is scouting, they have to nail that with a fine toothcomb.

For sure, every club has players signed for big money who haven't lived up to the hype, but when you look at our 'flops' then they were all bought within a similar time frame, under the same DoF and technical director and none of them worked out.

Elyonoussi, Hoedt, Carrillo, Lemina, Boufal, Vestergaard - that's around £100m of transfers, every single one has been an absolute failure. I wouldn't begrudge the approach if one or at worse two of that lot didn't work out, but for every one of those big signings to not work out is catastrophic and signifies horrific scouting on multiple levels.

That period over 2/3 transfer windows, when we sat with around £60m from VVD, was a criminal offence in my opinion. What should have been a strong legacy for our football club was flittered away on players for big wages, big money, that now no one wants. Ross Wilson and Les Reed, take a bow.

The general idea of getting good players, offering them a decent amount of money compared to over leagues, is all well and good - but you need your scouting to be top notch, and during those 3 windows it wasn't acceptable. I'm glad we've restructured that area now and hopefully over time we will see an improvement in our approach.

I guess I've been frustrated at the lack of investment, but we're hindered by the poor decisions and poor management of the past. Let's just hope we can get through this bump and eventually Ralph is able to build a team fully in his mould.

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egg

egg

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, skintsaint said:

Luke Shaw? Still a better option than a RB at LB. Had a decent end to the season by all accounts.

I think he's injured, ditto Chilwell, Rose. I don't think the u21`s started with a proper left back either. 

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egg

egg

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, skintsaint said:

Fair enough - even A.Young would have done for these games :)

Ha!! I think you're right. Looking at available English prem league left backs, the choice was Bertrand or Matt Targett. He played a right back instead. 

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S-Clarke

S-Clarke

Posted
Posted (edited)

Just the Carrillo loan to sort out now!

I think it was always pretty inevitable that the unsellables would all go out on loan again. It really does highlight our piss poor we were run between 2017-2019 when the majority of our 'record' signings are all out on loan.

Edited by S-Clarke
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Turkish

Turkish

Posted
Posted
7 minutes ago, S-Clarke said:

Just the Carrillo loan to sort out now!

I think it was always pretty inevitable that the unsellables would all go out on loan again. It really does highlight our piss poor we were run between 2017-2019 when the majority of our 'record' signings are all out on loan.

and Hoedt, Forster and Lemina still have 2 years left on their contracts!

At least Carillo will finally be gone this time next year, Boufal hopefully this year if we can get an offer in.

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SaintsFan86

SaintsFan86

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, Turkish said:

and Hoedt, Forster and Lemina still have 2 years left on their contracts!

At least Carillo will finally be gone this time next year, Boufal hopefully this year if we can get an offer in.

They will all have 1 year left on there contracts this time next year, Lemina could even be sold to Fulham., So it could be okay... Forster could also have a decent season, If and when he plays We may end up getting some coin there too.

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Turkish

Turkish

Posted
Posted
6 minutes ago, SaintsFan86 said:

They will all have 1 year left on there contracts this time next year, Lemina could even be sold to Fulham., So it could be okay... Forster could also have a decent season, If and when he plays We may end up getting some coin there too.

True, hopefully with one year left we can shift them even for a massively knocked down fee. I forgot about Elyanoussi, easily done i know, we're going to be stuck with him a bit longer, he's got 3 years left 🙈

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Badger

Badger

Posted
Posted
17 minutes ago, Turkish said:

and Hoedt, Forster and Lemina still have 2 years left on their contracts!

At least Carillo will finally be gone this time next year, Boufal hopefully this year if we can get an offer in.

Incredible that the buffoon who oversaw the signings holds a role as Technical Director or similar at the FA *, and his apprentice Ross is at Rangers.

*remind me what FA stands for again ?

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Chez

Chez

Posted
Posted
On 06/09/2020 at 11:44, egg said:

Ha!! I think you're right. Looking at available English prem league left backs, the choice was Bertrand or Matt Targett. He played a right back instead. 

Possibly could have picked Brandon Williams or Maitland-Niles. Bertrand is better than both IMO.

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Turkish

Turkish

Posted
Posted
28 minutes ago, Badger said:

Incredible that the buffoon who oversaw the signings holds a role as Technical Director or similar at the FA *, and his apprentice Ross is at Rangers.

*remind me what FA stands for again ?

"Transfer guru Ross Wilson". Still makes me chuckle even now

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david in sweden

david in sweden

Posted
Posted

After the success of the Koeman years, we sold the remainder of our Crown Jewels and let Messers. Reed and Wilson squander the profits on

a string of " less than talented  no-accounts".      It isn't JUST the transfer fees, but the high salary / long contract deals that is the real burden on our finances.

Hopefully the next crop of Academy starlets may save us  more of the £20 million "square pegs" we landed ourselves with ...of whom Hoedt was just one.

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saint1977

saint1977

Posted
Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Badger said:

Incredible that the buffoon who oversaw the signings holds a role as Technical Director or similar at the FA *, and his apprentice Ross is at Rangers.

*remind me what FA stands for again ?

FA = what Les and Ross know about football combined. Clubs' Directors of Football must have been seeing SFC during that period post-Ronald/Poch like ruthless double glazing salespeople visiting the house of a vulnerable/confused pensioner and selling them all sorts of over-priced tat. Shame on Kreuger for not stepping in and nearly killing SFC.

Last night's England display and tactics reminded me of Pellegrino's Saints, only Pickford ruined it by actually saving their two shots on target and Les not being able to spend £20m on a latter day Jon Parkin. You'd hope he has no influence on first team affairs but England have gone rapidly backwards since Les was appointed. Probably a coincidence but no Koeman to prop up him this time.

As for Ross, hit gold with Ianis Hagi but if Celtic make it 10 in a row, he's a lot more disposable than Gerrard.

Don't blame them for Boufal, that was Le Dour's signing as much Pelle was Ronald's. Poor manager but to follow up up with Mr Bean and the Hughesasauras was astounding incompetence. The one saving grace was Gabi's sharp reactions at Swansea which was a Les signing. Shame they wasted a quality player under three appalling managers. He'd have fed off Pelle and Tadic beautifully, think about the link-up with the latter in his early games.

 

Edited by saint1977
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saint1977

saint1977

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, woodsaint1 said:

Seen it mentioned that we're interested in Club Brugge's Nigerian striker Emmanuel Dennis and might look to include him in any deal for Hoedt. Been linked with Leeds/Wolves. Scored two at the Bernabeu for Brugge last year

Yes please, would suit Ralph's system as well. Where did you see that?

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beavis17

beavis17

Posted
Posted
13 minutes ago, SuperSAINT said:

I've heard his name before.  He's a striker, so not sure where he fits in.

Seems to have played on the right so far this season, so potentially a versatile replacement for Boufal/extra striker option? 

Still wonder if we might see Obafemi go out on loan with all these continued attacker links. 

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John Boy Saint

John Boy Saint

Posted
Posted
8 minutes ago, beavis17 said:

Seems to have played on the right so far this season, so potentially a versatile replacement for Boufal/extra striker option? 

Still wonder if we might see Obafemi go out on loan with all these continued attacker links. 

As long as he continues to being receptive of Ralphs advice, I can't see Ralph giving up on a stone he has polished so much already. Young Michael is only 20 and has Premier League experience and goals under his belt (absolute gem Boxing Day), if Danny and Che hit the new season ground running what better drive does Obafemi need to get a slice of that. Be a shame to see him go out on loan at the moment.

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Micky

Micky

Posted
Posted
On 21/09/2020 at 18:44, Dr. Kucho said:

Are we ever going to get rid of him? Or Carillo, Boufal and a goalkeeper? 

Yes we will - when their respective contracts expire.  There are not too many stupid agents or managers out there, unfortunately.

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