Give it to Ron Posted 25 September, 2017 Share Posted 25 September, 2017 Then I wonder why he dropped Stephens? And before you say anything Stephens was not injured or nursing a groin strain as reported by the Echo who quoted MP. Stephens was 100%. Personally I think he has been shabbily treated.Did you see the West Ham game? Him and Yosh never won a header. Do you think they would have dealt with Lukaku? Wes won quite a few headers on Saturday...I know some think Jack is the new Beckenbaur ....anything to have a pop at the club. Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Give it to Ron Posted 25 September, 2017 Share Posted 25 September, 2017 Why?the manager is picking the best players available to him and that isn't Jack Stephens. What's shabby about doing this? You've got serious issues fella, even using the picking of our best defenders to have a go at the club, maybe it's time for a new hobby?Shabby would have been changing a defence that kept a clean sheet and won at Palace surely? Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Duckhunter Posted 25 September, 2017 Share Posted 25 September, 2017 Did you see the West Ham game? Him and Yosh never won a header. Do you think they would have dealt with Lukaku? Wes won quite a few headers on Saturday...I know some think Jack is the new Beckenbaur ....anything to have a pop at the club. Wes' weak defending cost us the goal Saturday. Not saying Stephens would have done any better, but poster after poster would have taken great pleasure pointing that out had it been Stephens. Anything to have a pop at our homegrown youngsters. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Give it to Ron Posted 26 September, 2017 Share Posted 26 September, 2017 Wes' weak defending cost us the goal Saturday. Not saying Stephens would have done any better, but poster after poster would have taken great pleasure pointing that out had it been Stephens. Anything to have a pop at our homegrown youngsters. Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkWrong the weak defending was not stopping the cross. Had we had Puel Wes wouldn't have been playing anyway as we would have changed 3 of the back 4. Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Duckhunter Posted 26 September, 2017 Share Posted 26 September, 2017 Wrong the weak defending was not stopping the cross. Silly me. I should have realised, when Yoshida or Jack defended poorly from crosses it was their fault, anyone else it's the allowing of the cross. Maybe you should tell the pundits on sky, because their opinion was Wes got out muscled & bullied. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Le God Posted 26 September, 2017 Share Posted 26 September, 2017 Wes' weak defending cost us the goal Saturday. Not saying Stephens would have done any better, but poster after poster would have taken great pleasure pointing that out had it been Stephens. Anything to have a pop at our homegrown youngsters. He was fouled, that isn't being weak. Lukaku cheated by pushing Hoedt, which enabled him to get the ball. It was poor from the ref not to give it as a foul. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dusic Posted 26 September, 2017 Share Posted 26 September, 2017 He was fouled, that isn't being weak. Lukaku cheated by pushing Hoedt, which enabled him to get the ball. It was poor from the ref not to give it as a foul.It wasn't a foul IMO. Just strong forward play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Appy Posted 26 September, 2017 Share Posted 26 September, 2017 He was fouled, that isn't being weak. Lukaku cheated by pushing Hoedt, which enabled him to get the ball. It was poor from the ref not to give it as a foul. He wasn't fouled, don't be so naive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cellone Posted 26 September, 2017 Share Posted 26 September, 2017 He's become so good in two days. Now ranked higher than Maya or Jack by sweb. It'll be interesting to see if this is true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ericofarabia Posted 27 September, 2017 Share Posted 27 September, 2017 It wasn't a foul IMO. Just strong forward play. He wasn't fouled, don't be so naive. Of course it was a foul. It's one thing to use body strength to maintain your position, but it is a foul if you use your hands to push somebody over and gain positional advantage. If it had been the other way round it would have been 100% penalty given and quite rightly so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shroppie Posted 27 September, 2017 Share Posted 27 September, 2017 It wasn't a foul IMO. Just strong forward play.It was a foul. Or, to be more accurate, probably two fouls. Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sour Mash Posted 27 September, 2017 Share Posted 27 September, 2017 He wasn't fouled, don't be so naive. Of course it was a foul. Imagine Hoedt had the ball at his feet and was shoved by Lukaku, then went to ground. Defenders get free kicks for less all the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Globetrotter Posted 27 September, 2017 Share Posted 27 September, 2017 It wasn't a foul, case study being Rickie vs Cahill at 1:35 on this: Sent from my SM-G920F using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ericofarabia Posted 27 September, 2017 Share Posted 27 September, 2017 It wasn't a foul, case study being Rickie vs Cahill at 1:35 on this: Sent from my SM-G920F using Tapatalk That was a foul as well!! Just because the officials got it wrong doesn't mean it wasn't a foul. You might as well use Gabbiadini's ruled out "goal" at Wembley and say that all similar rulings on offside shall follow suit. Incorrect decisions made by the officials doesn't change the fact that SRL and Lukaku both fouled the defenders and Gabbi was onside. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trousers Posted 27 September, 2017 Share Posted 27 September, 2017 Have just watched the highlights for the first time and to me its a pre-meditated clear-cut push rather than the usual 'six of one, half a dozen of the other' tussles that go on in the box week in week out. Therefore, my verdict is that its an obvious foul. What crystalises this in my mind is that if Hoedt had pushed Lukaku in the same clinical fashion, the ref is likely to have given a penalty. (I'm aware that my opinion may be influenced by Saints supporter bias, but I've tried to be as objective as possible in my assessment here) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ErwinK1961 Posted 27 September, 2017 Share Posted 27 September, 2017 Neil Shipperley got done for less in the 96 quarter final. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Duckhunter Posted 27 September, 2017 Share Posted 27 September, 2017 Centre forwards have been doing that for years & getting away with it, it's part & parcel of the game. If you watch Wes actually felt for, and got involved physically with Lukaku first. They analysed it on Goals on Sunday and the consensus was that Wes was naive in his starting position and in engaging Lukaku first. His new to English football, so will learn. Whether it was technically a foul or not is irrelevant to my initial point, which is had Jack Stephens been pushed away like that and we'd conceded , people on here would be giving him pelters. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrfahaji Posted 27 September, 2017 Share Posted 27 September, 2017 Neil Shipperley got done for less in the 96 quarter final. Was that his far post header? I remember running round the house celebrating and when I finally returned my Dad told me it had been disallowed. That happened to me on CM97/98 all the time, but the only time it has ever happened in real life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benjii Posted 27 September, 2017 Share Posted 27 September, 2017 That Shipperley decision was a disgrace! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Give it to Ron Posted 27 September, 2017 Share Posted 27 September, 2017 Centre forwards have been doing that for years & getting away with it, it's part & parcel of the game. If you watch Wes actually felt for, and got involved physically with Lukaku first. They analysed it on Goals on Sunday and the consensus was that Wes was naive in his starting position and in engaging Lukaku first. His new to English football, so will learn. Whether it was technically a foul or not is irrelevant to my initial point, which is had Jack Stephens been pushed away like that and we'd conceded , people on here would be giving him pelters. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Are you Stephens dad...you seem to be clearly upset at him being dropped for 2 international players when he can't get a game for the u23's!! Jack is a good young player.....would Lukaku had bullied him....evidence on past games yes. My point still stands and you have no answer for...if we had blocked the cross like we should have would they have scored if it was Stephens or Wes? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Le God Posted 27 September, 2017 Share Posted 27 September, 2017 It wasn't a foul IMO. Just strong forward play. He wasn't fouled, don't be so naive. If you push someone... it is a foul! Not me being naive, just the ref not applying the rules! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Duckhunter Posted 27 September, 2017 Share Posted 27 September, 2017 (edited) Did you see the West Ham game? Him and Yosh never won a header. Do you think they would have dealt with Lukaku? Wes won quite a few headers on Saturday...I know some think Jack is the new Beckenbaur ....anything to have a pop at the club. Are you Stephens dad...you seem to be clearly upset at him being dropped for 2 international players when he can't get a game for the u23's!! Jack is a good young player.....would Lukaku had bullied him....evidence on past games yes. My point still stands and you have no answer for...if we had blocked the cross like we should have would they have scored if it was Stephens or Wes? Not his Dad, and not upset about him being dropped. Only showing up the inconsistency of your posts. Jack & Yoshida "never won a header" ( pony by the way, but what you wrote). Yet when Wes not winning a header directly contributed to the winning goal, it's not his fault. It's all the fault of the guy who didn't stop the cross. Laughable double standards. He probably would have been bullied by Lakaku, but one thing for sure, you'd have been blaming him, not the failure to stop the crosses. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Edited 27 September, 2017 by Lord Duckhunter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Highfield Saint Posted 27 September, 2017 Share Posted 27 September, 2017 If you push someone... it is a foul! Not me being naive, just the ref not applying the rules! He was fouled but had time to recover his position before the cross came over. He then seemed to slip and this gave Lukaku a free header. Bertrand saw this and tried to react but couldn't get across. So - yes there was a foul but it was Wes's error that conceded the header and goal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Give it to Ron Posted 27 September, 2017 Share Posted 27 September, 2017 (edited) Not his Dad, and not upset about him being dropped. Only showing up the inconsistency of your posts. Jack & Yoshida "never won a header" ( pony by the way, but what you wrote). Yet when Wes not winning a header directly contributed to the winning goal, it's not his fault. It's all the fault of the guy who didn't stop the cross. Laughable double standards. He probably would have been bullied by Lakaku, but one thing for sure, you'd have been blaming him, not the failure to stop the crosses. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Rubbish....I blamed the poor defending for not stopping the cross whether that was Jack or whoever. Are you saying they did win a header versus West Ham...did you watch the game then because it seems you didn't if you think they did? FWIW I wouldn't have played Yosh either and would have put Double VD alongside Wes purely for that reason we constantly got battered last season by strong forwards. However after winning the week before can see why we went same... Edited 27 September, 2017 by Give it to Ron Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shurlock Posted 3 December, 2017 Share Posted 3 December, 2017 Impressions so far? Has has some good moments, some iffy ones, though doesn’t look anywhere near Virgil’s successor. We’re going to have spend big on another CB assuming VVD leaves in the next couple of windows (which perhaps was the plan). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suhari Posted 3 December, 2017 Share Posted 3 December, 2017 New to the league, young. Looks like a good signing.....needs a decent run of games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Le God Posted 3 December, 2017 Share Posted 3 December, 2017 Impressions so far? Has has some good moments, some iffy ones, though doesn’t look anywhere near Virgil’s successor. Is this bump because of his key error today? He messed up badly for the Bournemouth goal today, but apart from that he had a very good game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Garrett Posted 3 December, 2017 Share Posted 3 December, 2017 I think he's a very good player, but hasn't fully settled yet. Certainly doesn't seem to suffer from confidence, but the over confidence today cost us. 3/4 times he tried to cut back onto his right foot, and finally got caught in possession for their goal. Possibly driven by the manager, but if hes being closed down, just get it out into midfield or punt it down the line - don't go onto your weak foot and look to play it to Virg. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lighthouse Posted 3 December, 2017 Share Posted 3 December, 2017 I don't think our continuous rotation of the defence really helps him. Overall, he looks a decent player to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shurlock Posted 3 December, 2017 Share Posted 3 December, 2017 Is this bump because of his key error today? He messed up badly for the Bournemouth goal today, but apart from that he had a very good game. Nope, pal. Just that’s he had a run of games and we haven’t had a real stock take of his progress. FWIW he also lost his marker/matchup a couple of times in the box, one that led to good save from Forster just before their opener and then Ake having a free header with virtually the final touch of the game. Pay attention. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint_clark Posted 3 December, 2017 Share Posted 3 December, 2017 Was very good today other than the one big mistake. Done enough that I wouldn't be overly concerned with Van Dijk leaving and reinvesting the money elsewhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simo Posted 3 December, 2017 Share Posted 3 December, 2017 Not a better defender than Maya imo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint_clark Posted 3 December, 2017 Share Posted 3 December, 2017 Not a better defender than Maya imo Mayas had the benefit of 5 years playing in this country with this team in fairness. Hoedts had less than a dozen games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stknowle Posted 3 December, 2017 Share Posted 3 December, 2017 He's looked alright/good but alright is **** all use with regular lapses of concentration that cost points as one of those lapses did today. That was always the (justified) criticism of Yoshida. As others have said, the one that lead to the goal wasn't the only lapse today. Cut out the mistakes and we have a good player, no doubt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Cat Posted 3 December, 2017 Share Posted 3 December, 2017 Was very good today other than the one big mistake. Done enough that I wouldn't be overly concerned with Van Dijk leaving and reinvesting the money elsewhere. Takes a few risks beating players in front of our box which was his undoing today but other than that he looks very decent. In his slight defence he should never have had the ball to give it away. Davis played a totally unnecessary first time backward pass when he was in acres of space in midfield, could have controlled the ball and driven forward. Before the match when the teams were warming up Hoedt and Van Dijk were smashing 50 yard passes to each other. Hoedt's were so accurate that Van Dijk never had to move. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fitzhugh Fella Posted 3 December, 2017 Share Posted 3 December, 2017 He'll learn from today, he looks a decent player but I feel for Stephens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Posted 3 December, 2017 Share Posted 3 December, 2017 Was very good today other than the one big mistake. Done enough that I wouldn't be overly concerned with Van Dijk leaving and reinvesting the money elsewhere. I never agree with you. Vvd was awesome today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VectisSaint Posted 3 December, 2017 Share Posted 3 December, 2017 Was very good today other than the one big mistake. Done enough that I wouldn't be overly concerned with Van Dijk leaving and reinvesting the money elsewhere. Made other mistakes today. Not impressed, really no better than Yoshida and not really better than Stephens, still should have got a pen for the holding by the Boscombe defender. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Albert Posted 3 December, 2017 Share Posted 3 December, 2017 Was very good today other than the one big mistake. Done enough that I wouldn't be overly concerned with Van Dijk leaving and reinvesting the money elsewhere. JWP did him no favours with that back pass. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Duckhunter Posted 3 December, 2017 Share Posted 3 December, 2017 Not a better defender than Maya imo Not much in it in my opinion. He's a bit stronger and knocks a better ball, whereas Yoshida is quicker and is a tough little bugger. Pleased they're both in the squad. Personally, I think Yoshida's great team ethic keeps him out, he's easier to drop Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shurlock Posted 3 December, 2017 Share Posted 3 December, 2017 JWP did him no favours with that back pass. It was Romeu with the pass. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danjosaint Posted 3 December, 2017 Share Posted 3 December, 2017 Not a better defender than Maya imo Sorry but imo he's far better than yoshi and Stephens, he has barely been here probably only just settling in, 2 seasons ago yoshi would make a mistake nearly every game, 1 mistake today and people are on his back, i think he's an excellent addition Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint_clark Posted 3 December, 2017 Share Posted 3 December, 2017 I never agree with you. Vvd was awesome today. I...never said he wasn't? Just said I would no longer be overly concerned if we did sell him to reinvest the funds elsewhere. I believe our centreback options are more than good enough for a top 10 side pushing for european places even without VVD. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allsa001 Posted 3 December, 2017 Share Posted 3 December, 2017 I think considering he is new, he has been fantastic. No player is going to come into our squad and be totally amazing. I have every faith that he will settle in, and add to our history of great defenders. he mad a mistake today, but it wasn't a mistake like a playing a short ball back to the keeper. It was a mistake that he is so confident on the ball, he got the ball taken of him. It was more of a team mistke, that always play it backwards, and it adds extra pressure to the defenders. I am happy that we have a defender with the skill and confidence to take on players in his first half of the season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kingsland Red Posted 3 December, 2017 Share Posted 3 December, 2017 Hoedt looks a bit leggy to me, he doesn't glide around. I would keep Yoshi involved as long at VVD is at the club. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davefoggy Posted 3 December, 2017 Share Posted 3 December, 2017 I think it's so harsh to drop Yoshida. Would have him in the side every week. I really hate seeing VVD wearing our shirt when he clearly doesn't want to be here and is only playing at 60-70% effort Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batman Posted 3 December, 2017 Share Posted 3 December, 2017 I think it's so harsh to drop Yoshida. Would have him in the side every week. I really hate seeing VVD wearing our shirt when he clearly doesn't want to be here and is only playing at 60-70% effortwhere is this effort jibe. he was very good today, and has been for a number of games If we want top dollar for him, he has to play Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Posted 3 December, 2017 Share Posted 3 December, 2017 Not clear that Hoedt is much better than Yoshida yet although he has been decent enough. Very harsh that Stephens can't even get in the squad as a result of us buying him but I guess it is forward planning for VVD's inevitable sale. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nordic Saint Posted 3 December, 2017 Share Posted 3 December, 2017 I think it's so harsh to drop Yoshida. Would have him in the side every week. I really hate seeing VVD wearing our shirt when he clearly doesn't want to be here and is only playing at 60-70% effort Give van Dijk a break. IMHO, he played much better than Hoedt today. A lot of this cr@p about players giving less than 100% is simply in the imagination of fans who are prejudiced against certain players. I remember hearing the same bullsh!t about Mane and Wanyama. As long as he's with us, he desrves our full support and I'm sure he's giving his full effort to every game. You should see how happy he is when we score a goal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saint-crinny Posted 3 December, 2017 Share Posted 3 December, 2017 Give van Dijk a break. IMHO, he played much better than Hoedt today. A lot of this cr@p about players giving less than 100% is simply in the imagination of fans who are prejudiced against certain players. I remember hearing the same bullsh!t about Mane and Wanyama. As long as he's with us, he desrves our full support and I'm sure he's giving his full effort to every game. You should see how happy he is when we score a goal. Agreed, no issue with VVD today. He was basically the player we've seen since he's been here / classy and comfortable. Him making the game look easy is now being used against him to say he isn't put it on etc. Raging at his behaviour but he's here and easily our best player. He has to play Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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