Window Cleaner Posted 2 September, 2017 Share Posted 2 September, 2017 As we saw with Jordy Clasie, being a Dutch international nowadays is about as much of a recommendation as being capped for Romania so that in itself doesn't mean much. Lack of pace is a fatal flaw in the Premier League, and some of the lightning fast PL strikers will ruthlessly exploit it. If he is indeed that slow, maybe he can at least replace the hapless Gardos and Bednarek when we play lower league sides in cup games? Let's hope he isn't that slow. We'll have to wait and see and hope for the best. Won't be many more cup games against lower league sides this season though, one or two perhaps in January. Then again, knowing our luck we'll probably draw Utd away in the 3rd round. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saint-crinny Posted 2 September, 2017 Share Posted 2 September, 2017 VVD has had some stinkers in that Dutch side as well. I'm reserving judgement until he's played a good few games for us. Appreciate that is a bit out there but what can I say, I don't play by the rules Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ziggee Posted 2 September, 2017 Share Posted 2 September, 2017 One for the coaches. How do you coach someone who e.g. always goes to the right to go to the left, right, stay back, go forward, etc all depending on circumstances and ensure they always make the right decision, they're in the right place, they can always process everything that's going on around them and can always concentrate fully on their task (which changes slightly depending on the above)? I presume to an extent it is done as that's what academies are for, but at what point do you say: X doesn't get it, can't improve; possibly because their instincts are too ingrained or Y doesn't get it because he's just not sharp enough (in footballing terms, which still comes down to instincts to a extent - if it does)? There’s not a lot wrong with Jacks reading of the game and positional sense, though it will doubtless improve with experience. I was talking specifically about high balls into the box, which is all about being correctly positioned in relation to the attacker. This can be coached. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
egg Posted 2 September, 2017 Share Posted 2 September, 2017 What have "you seen" then that the rest of us have not? He hasn't played for us yet!!! You judge players on their merits? Wow! This is so derisible you couldn't make it up. An unhatched Egg for sure. I've commented on how he's played when I've seen him play, most recently against France where he was slow, ponderous, positional wise weak (at times) and poor in the air. I wish I could say that moved across the ground like a whippet, was commanding in the air and in the right position all the time, but he wasn't. Sure, when he plays for us the positioning may improve, but I doubt he'll suddenly be able to move quicker or jump higher. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
egg Posted 2 September, 2017 Share Posted 2 September, 2017 Oh! you have realised that, have you. According to you, he was a nailed on certainty to be sold, and here you are, running down a new signing, that none of us have seen play in the team yet. Your sort, the club can do without. Yep, I was sure he would leave and some time soon he will. Whether we get a committed player who doesn't disrupt the dressing room in the meantime, let's wait and see. See post above re Hoedt. You don't have to watch a player in your own team to assess a player. Martina was bang average for us and will be bang average for Everton, for example. He won't suddenly go up there and become the world's best right back will he. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
van Hanegem Posted 2 September, 2017 Share Posted 2 September, 2017 (edited) They were all disastrously bad because the team is bad, no point in trying to settle individual blame on any one player for any one event. Dutch football is a mess because all of their promising young players are sold off to bg clubs, where they don't play, at very early ages. Dutch football is a mess at this moment because there are no successors to Sneijder, van Persie and Robben and there's still pressure from outside to play "The Dutch way" (A silly name for playing 4-3-3 with an attacking midfielder right behind the central forward). As there will be no Bergkamp, van Basten, Gullit or even a van Nistelrooy in the near future the Dutch should play in a more realistic way when playing opponents like France or Germany. There are defenders and midfielders who do have more talent than Clasie, Wijnaldum, Strootman, van Dijk and Hoedt for example but they need a couple of years and enough play time (which they will get as they are good enough). The trouble is upfront with an idiot like Memphis Depay, the hard working but not very talented Vincent Janssen and someone like Quincy Promes who only scores in the Russian competition (he even got player of the year over there!) so it would be better when the Dutch adept to a 4-4-2 system to gain more control in midfield. Apparently Dickie Advocaat is not convinced that Hoedt is ready for the Dutch team as there is rumour he will be replaced for tomorrow's game against Bulgaria by Martins Indi who shouldn't even be selected in my opinion. Let's hope Hoedt will do better with the Saints! Edited 3 September, 2017 by van Hanegem Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trousers Posted 3 September, 2017 Share Posted 3 September, 2017 Hoedt in the starting 11 for today's game Vs Bulgaria Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eelpie Posted 3 September, 2017 Share Posted 3 September, 2017 Hoedt in the starting 11 for today's game Vs Bulgaria Let's hope he doesn't get injured otherwise all those with doubts will never know how good he could be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nordic Saint Posted 3 September, 2017 Share Posted 3 September, 2017 One for the coaches. How do you coach someone who e.g. always goes to the right to go to the left, right, stay back, go forward, etc all depending on circumstances and ensure they always make the right decision, they're in the right place, they can always process everything that's going on around them and can always concentrate fully on their task (which changes slightly depending on the above)? I presume to an extent it is done as that's what academies are for, but at what point do you say: X doesn't get it, can't improve; possibly because their instincts are too ingrained or Y doesn't get it because he's just not sharp enough (in footballing terms, which still comes down to instincts to a extent - if it does)? I guess you mean our first team coach, Eric Black. He should know all the answers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dusic Posted 3 September, 2017 Share Posted 3 September, 2017 Watched the game the other day and first half of NL's match today. Hoedt solid if unspectacular. Tidy on the ball, wins headers. His movement and mannerisms are quite similar to Jos Hooiveld actually. Nice weight of pass on his left foot. He does look slow and quite stiff but few 6'4 CBs are much different which is what makes VVD a freak. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angelman Posted 3 September, 2017 Share Posted 3 September, 2017 My Sky Go is utter rubbish, so have gone on to a stream. Is Hoedt the one in white boots? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cellone Posted 3 September, 2017 Share Posted 3 September, 2017 Watched the game the other day and first half of NL's match today. Hoedt solid if unspectacular. Tidy on the ball, wins headers. His movement and mannerisms are quite similar to Jos Hooiveld actually. Nice weight of pass on his left foot. He does look slow and quite stiff but few 6'4 CBs are much different which is what makes VVD a freak. Thanks for the report Dusic. I suppose we can only really start getting a true idea of him when he has played for Saint's a few times, but he sounds okay so far. Maybe a Tai-Chi coach could teach him and others a bit of fluidity and movement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dusic Posted 3 September, 2017 Share Posted 3 September, 2017 Thanks for the report Dusic. I suppose we can only really start getting a true idea of him when he has played for Saint's a few times, but he sounds okay so far. Maybe a Tai-Chi coach could teach him and others a bit of fluidity and movement. Intl football is so slow it is quite hard to judge how he would do in the pace of a PL game but you wouldn't really want him being dragged into wide areas. Can't really think of a current PL defender he reminds me of, a better version of Hooiveld is all I can think of: lanky, languid style, long legs and nice left foot. Tonny Vilhena who we nearly bought for about £1m a few years back from Feyenoord looks very good. Similar to a Lemina type. Would have been a bargain had we got him for virtually nothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pass the Dutchie Posted 3 September, 2017 Share Posted 3 September, 2017 The guy on Dutch tv commenting how Hoedt's first 3 games with the national team had been great and very promising, but that this week's performances were very disappointing, and that it was probably because of lack of rhythm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batman Posted 3 September, 2017 Share Posted 3 September, 2017 at least he will be 'match fit' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
van Hanegem Posted 3 September, 2017 Share Posted 3 September, 2017 Hoedt in the starting 11 for today's game Vs Bulgaria Yup, rumours about Martins Indi taking over were false. Hoedt wasn't really tested but didn't make much of an impression, it was a rather unremarkable game for him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevy777_x Posted 3 September, 2017 Share Posted 3 September, 2017 Yup, rumours about Martins Indi taking over were false. Hoedt wasn't really tested but didn't make much of an impression, it was a rather unremarkable game for him. Thought he was solid and played the ball out well out of the back often starting good attacking moves for the dutch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Give it to Ron Posted 3 September, 2017 Share Posted 3 September, 2017 Thought he was solid and played the ball out well out of the back often starting good attacking moves for the dutch.Agree he seemed to read it well and always available. Picked a pass well. My one concern was he wasnt under pressure so not sure how he would cope with high intensive attacks. Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
van Hanegem Posted 3 September, 2017 Share Posted 3 September, 2017 Thought he was solid and played the ball out well out of the back often starting good attacking moves for the dutch. It's not difficult to look solid when you're not really tested. In the first half he didn't do much to start any attacking move while the Bulgarians stayed near their own goal. It was a little better in the second half, maybe someone woke him up during the break. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danjosaint Posted 3 September, 2017 Share Posted 3 September, 2017 Intl football is so slow it is quite hard to judge how he would do in the pace of a PL game but you wouldn't really want him being dragged into wide areas. Can't really think of a current PL defender he reminds me of, a better version of Hooiveld is all I can think of: lanky, languid style, long legs and nice left foot. Tonny Vilhena who we nearly bought for about £1m a few years back from Feyenoord looks very good. Similar to a Lemina type. Would have been a bargain had we got him for virtually nothing. Also have to say i was impressed with vilhena Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
van Hanegem Posted 3 September, 2017 Share Posted 3 September, 2017 Also have to say i was impressed with vilhena Tonny Vilhena is making progress at Feyenoord but I don't believe he'll ever be ready for the PL. He's got more stamina than Clasie and eventually he could be the kind of player Edgar Davids once was but just like Clasie he's too small and lightweight to win duels week in week out in the PL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doddisalegend Posted 9 September, 2017 Share Posted 9 September, 2017 Thought he did alright today. I don't think either of our CBs can be blamed for the goals today and they coped pretty well considering the almost total lack of cover from the midfield. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M271 Posted 13 September, 2017 Share Posted 13 September, 2017 From today's Daily Echo article / interview with Hoedt "......I think that Southampton is the best club to start at in the Premier League.” Um..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pancake Posted 13 September, 2017 Share Posted 13 September, 2017 From today's Daily Echo article / interview with Hoedt "......I think that Southampton is the best club to start at in the Premier League.” Um..... 1. could be a simple miss use of words, he could mean a club at which he can get a starting place. 2. Or he sees us as a stepping stone. And if so, so ****ing what. We sell players. We buy em cheap and young and sell them when they can make us money. Nothing new here! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pass the Dutchie Posted 13 September, 2017 Share Posted 13 September, 2017 Why lie about it? This club is nobody's ultimate top goal, except maybe for the very few special exceptions of kids who grew up a fan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eddie Posted 13 September, 2017 Share Posted 13 September, 2017 From today's Daily Echo article / interview with Hoedt "......I think that Southampton is the best club to start at in the Premier League.” Um..... This is literally just true. Two things: The fact we are recruiting more and more overseas (look at the number of nationalities in our squad...) means we're getting more and more players who only grew up supporting one of Arsenal, Liverpool, Man U and maybe Chelsea. The kind of player who would turn down a big move and choose to stay at Saints is: - a player who isn't good enough to start at new Club and knows it - a local boy who's dream is to play for Saints Those are the only remote people we have any chance of keeping next season. All the others, maybe Hoedt is one, wouldn't turn the chance to move to a big club they have heard of since they were a kid. A local recruitment strategy or enormous wage budget are the only ways to keep people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toadhall Saint Posted 13 September, 2017 Share Posted 13 September, 2017 Why lie about it? This club is nobody's ultimate top goal, except maybe for the very few special exceptions of kids who grew up a fan. This Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SW5 SAINT Posted 13 September, 2017 Share Posted 13 September, 2017 Why the surprise, he's a Dutchman, why would anyone imagine he would be spending the rest of his playing career at Saints. He's not one of theses kids who grew up in the Rio shanty towns with dreams of one day playing for Pompey............ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pass the Dutchie Posted 16 September, 2017 Share Posted 16 September, 2017 Played with Stephens, looked decent. Played with Yoshida, looked great. Can't wait to see him playing with Van Dijk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toadhall Saint Posted 16 September, 2017 Share Posted 16 September, 2017 Played with Stephens, looked decent. Played with Yoshida, looked great. Can't wait to see him playing with Van Dijk. Does look decent- his distribution impressed me today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danjosaint Posted 16 September, 2017 Share Posted 16 September, 2017 Agreed, about 3 40yd crossfield ball's all bang on the money Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Globetrotter Posted 17 September, 2017 Share Posted 17 September, 2017 UNIT Sent from my SM-G920F using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rooney Posted 17 September, 2017 Share Posted 17 September, 2017 Agreed, about 3 40yd crossfield ball's all bang on the money Schneiderlinesqe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benjii Posted 17 September, 2017 Share Posted 17 September, 2017 Schneiderlinesqe. Better, I would say. Schneiderlin used to take an age telegraphing cross field balls and would often float them over very high. Hoedt hits them quicker and with shorter preparation. To be clear, I'm not saying he is a better player, just that he plays that pass more effectively (based on a sample of two matches). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ericb Posted 18 September, 2017 Share Posted 18 September, 2017 Wonder if this would work as a song for him, (to the tune of Bowie's starman which everyone should know) He's our dutch man, Playing center back. His name is Wesley Hoedt, and he ****s up your attack. *repeat till you get bored. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doddisalegend Posted 23 September, 2017 Share Posted 23 September, 2017 Looks like another good signing I Thought he played really well again today, Lukuka didn't get much change out of him today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrfahaji Posted 23 September, 2017 Share Posted 23 September, 2017 Looks like another good signing I Thought he played really well again today, Lukuka didn't get much change out of him today. Apart from the goal that won the game (I am being a little facetious here, as agree he played well and there was one, possibly two fouls by Lukaku leading up to the goal) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Albert Posted 23 September, 2017 Share Posted 23 September, 2017 Apart from the goal that won the game (I am being a little facetious here, as agree he played well and there was one, possibly two fouls by Lukaku leading up to the goal) I'm caught in two minds about the goal. He shoved Hoedt twice before his header: once with two hands to the chest, which gave him space, and then a second with a shove in the back as Hoedt attempted to recover and meet the cross, knocking him off balance. Part of me thinks the second shove was a foul. Part of me thinks Hoedt should have been stronger. Hoedt is carrying an injury to his knee. Makes me wonder if VVD will be coming back for the next game- Hoedt was slow to get up after a couple of challenges in the second half. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Cat Posted 23 September, 2017 Share Posted 23 September, 2017 No surprise that a foul wasn't given before the goal. There were loads of shoves in the box that went unpunished. Long pulled Jones's shirt then pushed him before getting a (weak) header in at one point in the second half. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shurlock Posted 23 September, 2017 Share Posted 23 September, 2017 (edited) Was steady not great. Apart from the goal, got dragged out of position and towards Bertrand a number of times but it’s only his second game. Edited 23 September, 2017 by shurlock Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simo Posted 24 September, 2017 Share Posted 24 September, 2017 Maya's post match interview said a lot imo not sure he sees Hoedt as better than Stephens yet ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doddisalegend Posted 24 September, 2017 Share Posted 24 September, 2017 Maya's post match interview said a lot imo not sure he sees Hoedt as better than Stephens yet ! What did he say? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simo Posted 24 September, 2017 Share Posted 24 September, 2017 What did he say? https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=1700693249943888&id=220396037973624 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Duckhunter Posted 24 September, 2017 Share Posted 24 September, 2017 One thing for sure, had Stephens defended like that for the goal, he'd have got a lot more clog on here than Wes is getting Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fitzhugh Fella Posted 24 September, 2017 Share Posted 24 September, 2017 Maya's post match interview said a lot imo not sure he sees Hoedt as better than Stephens yet ! Then I wonder why he dropped Stephens? And before you say anything Stephens was not injured or nursing a groin strain as reported by the Echo who quoted MP. Stephens was 100%. Personally I think he has been shabbily treated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperSAINT Posted 24 September, 2017 Share Posted 24 September, 2017 Then I wonder why he dropped Stephens? And before you say anything Stephens was not injured or nursing a groin strain as reported by the Echo who quoted MP. Stephens was 100%. Personally I think he has been shabbily treated. I suppose with Hoedt joining & VvD staying (for now) one of them was always going to get shafted. 3 at the back would probably see him potentially get more game time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toomer Posted 24 September, 2017 Share Posted 24 September, 2017 Then I wonder why he dropped Stephens? And before you say anything Stephens was not injured or nursing a groin strain as reported by the Echo who quoted MP. Stephens was 100%. Personally I think he has been shabbily treated. Neither Stephens or Maya have done anything wrong but I think MP sees VVD and Hoedt (as long as they are with us) as his first choice pairing and Stephens and the Polish lad the future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simo Posted 24 September, 2017 Share Posted 24 September, 2017 Then I wonder why he dropped Stephens? And before you say anything Stephens was not injured or nursing a groin strain as reported by the Echo who quoted MP. Stephens was 100%. Personally I think he has been shabbily treated. Maya never dropped Stephens ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 25 September, 2017 Share Posted 25 September, 2017 Then I wonder why he dropped Stephens? And before you say anything Stephens was not injured or nursing a groin strain as reported by the Echo who quoted MP. Stephens was 100%. Personally I think he has been shabbily treated. Why?the manager is picking the best players available to him and that isn't Jack Stephens. What's shabby about doing this? You've got serious issues fella, even using the picking of our best defenders to have a go at the club, maybe it's time for a new hobby? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avenue_Saint Posted 25 September, 2017 Share Posted 25 September, 2017 Class player. Stephens is not in his league. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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