What a situation

[Saint in Paradise]

I better not post some of my thoughts on this situation except to say that even Saints merging with Portsmouth wouldn't get to me as much.

 

http://metro.co.uk/2017/08/13/trangender-mum-and-pansexual-dad-raising-child-in-britains-first-gender-fluid-family-6848824/

 

.

[StDunko]

I'm always confused as to why some people get angry about how other people choose to live their lives.

Why do you care? Are you directly effected by this somehow?

[Saint in Paradise]

I'm always confused as to why some people get angry about how other people choose to live their lives.

Why do you care? Are you directly effected by this somehow?

 

Yes.

[Smirking_Saint]

As much as I live my life very much in the mould of 'each to their own' I find it a bit strong to use yourchild as some sort of social experiment.

 

The gender neutral arguement does confuse me somewhat however, sex is determined biologically, you dont get a say in it, you of course are under no obligation to adhere to any social stereotypes.

[buctootim]

As much as I live my life very much in the mould of 'each to their own' I find it a bit strong to use yourchild as some sort of social experiment.

 

The gender neutral arguement does confuse me somewhat however, sex is determined biologically, you dont get a say in it, you of course are under no obligation to adhere to any social stereotypes.

 

Bizarre as it sounds part of it is down to the 'me too' culture imo. Its almost fashionable at the moment, like being punk / goth / heavy metal / hipster was, driven by the constant media coverage. My son, who is 14, reckons around 30% of his year claim to be gay, bi sexual, pan sexual or transgender. He rolls his eyes when he talks about them, pointing out that most havent even had their first boyfriend / girlfriend yet

Edited 14 August, 2017 by buctootim

[scotty]

Bizarre as it sounds part of it is down to the 'me too' culture imo. Its almost fashionable at the moment, like being punk / goth / heavy metal / hipster was, driven by the constant media coverage. My son, who is 14, reckons around 30% of his year claim to be gay, bi sexual, pan sexual or transgender. He rolls his eyes when he talks about them, pointing out that most havent even had their first boyfriend / girlfriend yet

 

There is definitely something to this. I've seen it with a nephew, he's in his late twenties and frankly isn't the sharpest tool in the box. He's decided on what appear to be artistic grounds that he wants his cock chopped off and has moved abroad, partly to facilitate this. He was forever quoting idiotic statements about lifestyle choices that really boil down to delusional fantasies about self image and fashion, which I'm convinced are fuelled by the current wave of transgender press overkill. It reminds me slightly of the odd phenomenon a decade or so back when some gay men were actively seeking to become HIV positive as a lifestyle choice/statement. I'd also agree wholeheartedly with smirker that while it might be ok for an adult to do whatever they please, it's wrong on every level to drag a child into it.

[benjii]

There is definitely something to this. I've seen it with a nephew, he's in his late twenties and frankly isn't the sharpest tool in the box. He's decided on what appear to be artistic grounds that he wants his cock chopped off and has moved abroad, partly to facilitate this. He was forever quoting idiotic statements about lifestyle choices that really boil down to delusional fantasies about self image and fashion, which I'm convinced are fuelled by the current wave of transgender press overkill. It reminds me slightly of the odd phenomenon a decade or so back when some gay men were actively seeking to become HIV positive as a lifestyle choice/statement. I'd also agree wholeheartedly with smirker that while it might be ok for an adult to do whatever they please, it's wrong on every level to drag a child into it.

 

I shouldn't but this bit sounds like a script line from a Cohen brothers film or something.

[Window Cleaner]

I better not post some of my thoughts on this situation except to say that even Saints merging with Portsmouth wouldn't get to me as much.

 

http://metro.co.uk/2017/08/13/trangender-mum-and-pansexual-dad-raising-child-in-britains-first-gender-fluid-family-6848824/

 

.

 

Wow, with parents looking like those I'd have done a runner as soon as I'd been able to climb out of the crib. Honestly some just need not to be parents.

[scotty]

I shouldn't but this bit sounds like a script line from a Cohen brothers film or something.

 

Maybe I should pitch it

[buctootim]

Maybe I should pitch it

You'd need to put his knob in wood chipper

[Jonnyboy]

There is definitely something to this. I've seen it with a nephew, he's in his late twenties and frankly isn't the sharpest tool in the box. He's decided on what appear to be artistic grounds that he wants his cock chopped off and has moved abroad, partly to facilitate this. He was forever quoting idiotic statements about lifestyle choices that really boil down to delusional fantasies about self image and fashion, which I'm convinced are fuelled by the current wave of transgender press overkill. It reminds me slightly of the odd phenomenon a decade or so back when some gay men were actively seeking to become HIV positive as a lifestyle choice/statement. I'd also agree wholeheartedly with smirker that while it might be ok for an adult to do whatever they please, it's wrong on every level to drag a child into it.

 

Which country by the way? Asking for a friend.

[scotty]

Which country by the way? Asking for a friend.

 

Germany.

[Ohio Saint]

I'm not sure what to make of this regarding gender, but the world would be a far better place if people used the same method regarding religion.

[Turkish]

and people say gay marriage and adoption is a good idea

 

Classic example of why this sort of thing should never have been legalised, a generation of messed up kids choosing this lifestyle as a fashion statement as the left wing pressurise them into what they think they should be. I wouldn't be surprised if in years to come people have to come out of the closet to being straight!

[scotty]

and people say gay marriage and adoption is a good idea

 

Classic example of why this sort of thing should never have been legalised, a generation of messed up kids choosing this lifestyle as a fashion statement as the left wing pressurise them into what they think they should be. I wouldn't be surprised if in years to come people have to come out of the closet to being straight!

 

You say that as if it's a bad thing turks. I've seen loads of films with lesbians in them and they always seem quite cheerful.

[Manuel]

I've tried and failed to get my head around the transgender thing. For me the only thing that defines me as male is my male body and subtle differences in biology that come with being male, hormones, testosterone etc. There's nothing within my psyche or my personality that is inherently male that I can identify. Ok, I'm attracted to females but sexual orientation doesn't really come into it, if say I had a female body, I could be a gay woman. If you ask yourself what makes you a man (or a woman), it really just comes down to the biology, not the mind. So when someone says they're born as the wrong gender, what is it within their psyche that tells them what gender they should be, and why don't I experience it?

 

So yeah, as much as people should be free to do what they want with their own lives, I'd find it difficult to support bringing up a kid to see its gender as a 'grey area'.

[hypochondriac]

Couldn't disagree more. Whilst clearly sexual characteristics and body type account for a large portion of difference between males and females, numerous studies show that on average there are measurable differences between male and female brains too. Looking at differences in empathy, relationships, spacial awareness and a whole host of other factors shows that there are fundamental differences between men and women that are more than purely physical- again this is on average. It's what the Google memo controversy has been all about with people very quick to scream sexist without actually reading it and critiquing the very reasonable point Damore was making backed up by studies.

 

As for this particular case, it's tantamount to child abuse and should be dealt with by the authorities accordingly.

[Manuel]

Couldn't disagree more. Whilst clearly sexual characteristics and body type account for a large portion of difference between males and females, numerous studies show that on average there are measurable differences between male and female brains too.

I can easily accept that a male brain may well be biologically different to a female one, so men and women probably have different characteristics and personality traits that are definable. But if a man says they identify as a woman, are you suggesting they were born with a biologically more-female brain? A quick google suggests that yeah, perhaps it's true... https://www.newscientist.com/article/dn20032-transsexual-differences-caught-on-brain-scan/

 

Still, as you say, they shouldn't be messing with the kids mind in this way.

[hypochondriac]

I can easily accept that a male brain may well be biologically different to a female one, so men and women probably have different characteristics and personality traits that are definable. But if a man says they identify as a woman, are you suggesting they were born with a biologically more-female brain? A quick google suggests that yeah, perhaps it's true... https://www.newscientist.com/article/dn20032-transsexual-differences-caught-on-brain-scan/

 

Still, as you say, they shouldn't be messing with the kids mind in this way.

Potentially yes assuming we are talking about people with gender dysphoria- a psychological condition that deserves sympathy and treatment rather than brutal surgery or denying biological reality- and not those who call themselves trans because it's a fashionable thing they've heard about on tv. The whole thing about multiple genders is entirely absurd and real trans people will identify as either male or female because they are transitioning from one sex to the other one.

[Bearsy]

my 15yo niece is going round telling ppl she's "Pansexual". Leaving aside the wtf is that, and why do I have to be hearing about it aspects, I'm not buying it. I think she's just Fat & Unhappy.

[StDunko]

I'm always confused as to why some people get angry about how other people choose to live their lives.

Why do you care? Are you directly effected by this somehow?

 

Yes.

 

Care to elaborate?

 

We you raised gender fluid and did it not turn out well?

[Lighthouse]

Strange how often people who identify as some form of alternate sexuality are obese, have bizarre hair styles and random bits of metal stuck through their face. It just seems like some weird hipster, next level fashion statement to me. Or maybe they're just a bit ugly and can't get laid, so they're trying something from left field to distract people from it.

 

Don't get me wrong I'm not particularly interested in how people chose to sexually identify, however it seems to me that the people who don't want to be identified as a gender are in fact the ones who spend the most time talking about their gender. Most 'normal' people don't feel the need to talk about it, as it doesn't particularly bare any relevance to life.

[Batman]

it will not stop, partly because of stupid ideas like this

 

https://www.lgbtpolice.uk/

Edited 15 August, 2017 by Batman

[Patrick Bateman]

my 15yo niece is going round telling ppl she's "Pansexual". Leaving aside the wtf is that, and why do I have to be hearing about it aspects, I'm not buying it. I think she's just Fat & Unhappy.

 

She is bang on trend bruv!

[hypochondriac]

Care to elaborate?

 

We you raised gender fluid and did it not turn out well?

Well your same line of logic could apply to a situation where a child is being overfed to the point they are morbidly obese. In both cases parents are doing somethibg that is damaging their children's health. Should it be live and let live in that circumstance?

[benjii]

I'm afraid these munters are an inevitable fact of living in a modern city.

[benjii]

 

Here's Harrison Ford to act as a counter balance.

[Unbelievable Jeff]

my 15yo niece is going round telling ppl she's "Pansexual". Leaving aside the wtf is that, and why do I have to be hearing about it aspects, I'm not buying it. I think she's just Fat & Unhappy.

 

Never heard of a pan sexual, but whatever it is it sounds painful.

[ericb]

Never heard of a pan sexual, but whatever it is it sounds painful.

 

It basically means you're keeping your options open. Ironically pre 20th century it was the standard for many societies, the greeks and romans would famously sleep with anything with a pulse. I think, i remember the history properly, it was the good old victorians that started to introduce sexual norms as part of their overtly (i suppose you'd say today extremist) christian philosophies.

 

As for the first post i couldn't really give a flying f*ck what adults do, but as with religion or anything else don't impose it on children. They've not formed a strong enough sense of self yet and can be easily influenced, especially by parents.

[Turkish]

My son is growing up to be Panracial, we don't want him to be limited to a middle class, white sterotype, he needs to be free to decided what colour and race he wants to be. This morning he wanted to go to nursery as a black person so we put black boot polish on his face. The bigoted scum at the nursery wouldn't let him in as it might offend the other two black children there and their parents. I was absolutely disgusted that I wrote a strongly worded tweet about it.

[Unbelievable Jeff]

It basically means you're keeping your options open. Ironically pre 20th century it was the standard for many societies, the greeks and romans would famously sleep with anything with a pulse. I think, i remember the history properly, it was the good old victorians that started to introduce sexual norms as part of their overtly (i suppose you'd say today extremist) christian philosophies.

 

As for the first post i couldn't really give a flying f*ck what adults do, but as with religion or anything else don't impose it on children. They've not formed a strong enough sense of self yet and can be easily influenced, especially by parents.

 

Ah, so it's something that ugly/socially inept people can hide behind when they don't get any.

[hypochondriac]

Ah, so it's something that ugly/socially inept people can hide behind when they don't get any.

It's a phenomenon known as the oppression Olympics. By labelling themselves with a condition, they get granted more special oppression points and so their voice automatically carries more weight and they should be afforded more opportunities in life to prevent discrimination and bigotry.

[Ohio Saint]

I just read the article again. In all honesty, all they are saying to the kid seems to be "live your life as you wish" they are hoping this approach will give him future confidence to be who he is. Sure, this will most likely lead to a few beatings for the kid. He will make his mind up pretty darned quick about which aspects of himself are true, false, important or trivial, and is free, with the blessing of both parents to choose a gender or not. He could well turn out to be a better rounded person as a result.

 

Once again, if this method were applied to religion, many or most would applaud this philosophy.

 

Disclaimer, I would not have the balls to experiment with my own kid in the way that these people are.

[Lighthouse]

I just read the article again. In all honesty, all they are saying to the kid seems to be "live your life as you wish" they are hoping this approach will give him future confidence to be who he is. Sure, this will most likely lead to a few beatings for the kid. He will make his mind up pretty darned quick about which aspects of himself are true, false, important or trivial, and is free, with the blessing of both parents to choose a gender or not. He could well turn out to be a better rounded person as a result.

 

Once again, if this method were applied to religion, many or most would applaud this philosophy.

 

Disclaimer, I would not have the balls to experiment with my own kid in the way that these people are.

 

I would suggest from the name 'Star Cloud' that they actively want their child to be bullied.

[hypochondriac]

Here is what little star cloud will become in a few short years:

 

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/lifestyle/news/article.cfm?c_id=6&objectid=11877331

[scotty]

Here is what little star cloud will become in a few short years:

 

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/lifestyle/news/article.cfm?c_id=6&objectid=11877331

 

The paedos must be creaming themselves over that. And if the parents insist that he should be able to do anything he feels like doing, as star clouds heifers seem to be saying, why stop at the toys he plays with and the clothes he wears? That new zealand 8 year old is pretty articulate, what if he rocks up after school in a year or two and declares his love for a teacher? Will they say "be what you want to be" and leave it at that? In fact the more I think about it the more it strikes me as a brilliant way of abdicating responsibility; "well, all we did was let you do whatever you wanted...."

[eurosaint]

Male and female should be defined by how you leave the toilet seat - up or down !

TBF I have yet to come up with a solution for the 'inbetweeners' !

[Golden Balls]

I have no problem allowing someone to reach their own conclusions in life. Fine, let the child decide. But don't force the opposite of what they are on to them. Forcing HIM to wear stereotypical girl clothes to show how free HE is isn't letting HIM be free. It's the parent being an attention seeker trying to validate their terrible parenthood.

Buy him the clothes and toys he asks for, but be ready to be disappointed when he ignores the barbie you forced him to play with in favour of the truck he wants to play with

[hutch]

Gawd help the poor little bugger when it comes time for them to show him where to shove a tampon

[farawaysaint]

To be honest, it's all a mess right now. Kids need space to make their own choices. Having a genderfluid lifestyle forced on them is hardly ideal either.

 

I think there was a recent case of the first time ever a child's birth certificate didn't list their biological sex allowing them the space to determine it at a later stage, will we see this become the norm?

 

At what age are kids considered to be eligible to make the choice to undergo HRT for instance? It is much more effective before the onset of puberty but does a child of 11/12 really know enough about themselves and the world to make that choice?

 

Then you have transgender athletes dominating in their chosen fields, should they be obligated to compete with athletes of their birth sex?

 

Honestly the legislative and ethical concerns behind it all must be a nightmare and I'm glad I don't have to deal with it as the issue is so complex and confusing that I don't think there is an easy solution.

 

(er, forgive all the questions)...

[aintforever]

Live and let live, as long as the kid is happy it's not a problem.

[Winnersaint]

Live and let live, as long as the kid is happy it's not a problem.

 

Couldn't agree more

[Ohio Saint]

Forgive all the questions? In cases like this, questions should be the first response rather than knee jerk reactions.

[hypochondriac]

Live and let live, as long as the kid is happy it's not a problem.

I'm sorry but thats a total misunderstanding of the situation. A number of sipposed transgender children have been given hrt before they reach puberty which has had catastrophic and irreversible effects on their body. It's not just about the "happiness" of the kids, it's about ensuring they dont harm themselves or others. My analogy about morbidly obese children being overfed by their parents is a valid one here- we would expect the authorities to intervene in that case and the same thing applies.

[aintforever]

I'm sorry but thats a total misunderstanding of the situation. A number of sipposed transgender children have been given hrt before they reach puberty which has had catastrophic and irreversible effects on their body. It's not just about the "happiness" of the kids, it's about ensuring they dont harm themselves or others. My analogy about morbidly obese children being overfed by their parents is a valid one here- we would expect the authorities to intervene in that case and the same thing applies.

 

It doesn't say they gave their child hrt - or did I miss that?

[hypochondriac]

It doesn't say they gave their child hrt - or did I miss that?

You said live and let live and as long as the child is happy then it doesn't matter. My point is that that attitude has created situations where hrt has been given to prepubescent children, and I didn't even mention the psychological harm when they are pushed into a certain direction largely against their wil. At what point is it OK to stop saying "as long as the child is happy?" when pronouns become mandatory and they must be referred to as xim and xer unless you fancy prison time? As someone else mentioned, is the male now able to compete against females in sport? As long as the child is happy right? Ever noticed how the gender fluid nutters are always a certain type of parent? It's not a coincidence. Edited 6 September, 2017 by hypochondriac

[thesaint sfc]

and people say gay marriage and adoption is a good idea

 

Classic example of why this sort of thing should never have been legalised, a generation of messed up kids choosing this lifestyle as a fashion statement as the left wing pressurise them into what they think they should be. I wouldn't be surprised if in years to come people have to come out of the closet to being straight!

 

This ****es me off. All potential parents should be vetted in the same way when it comes to adoption. I'm gay - but just a 'normal' person. It annoys me how most of my 'community' rub there personal life in each others faces. I don't attend gay pride, I don't agree with gay marriage (marriage is a religious thing - why can't we just settle for civil partnership? I would argue straight people who aren't religious shouldn't be allowed to get married too), but everyone should be treated equal. These two clearly aren't suitable to be parents but their sexuality shouldn't come into it. They're just useless human beings as are so many.

[Huffton]

As a parent this really boils my ****. Wrong as it is, that poor kid will get bullied to hell when he goes to school. The parents need to grow up and put the kids well being before their views. A society where everyone is tolerated for what they are is a nice fantasy, but unfortunately thats all it is.

[aintforever]

the psychological harm when they are pushed into a certain direction largely against their wil.

 

What like making kids go to church, or dragging a boy to Fratton Park to watch **** football?

 

Children have always been pushed in certain directions, just because those guys are different to you doesn't make them wrong.

[hypochondriac]

What like making kids go to church, or dragging a boy to Fratton Park to watch **** football?

 

Children have always been pushed in certain directions, just because those guys are different to you doesn't make them wrong.

Of course it doesn't but if it causes psychological harm or irreversible changes to the child's biology- which has happened in both cases- the it needs to be challenged. No one has called it wrong because it is "different." you ignored the rest of my post by the way.