Les Reed...mistakes made in VVD situation...and moving on

[patred44]

First Les, congratulations on standing up to VD and forcing him to put in a transfer request.

 

But let's look how we arrived at this impossible position. You had the player tied into a long contract, as you have others. Normally you would think we would be safe from any vultures covetting our players for the length of their contracts.

That was a mistake! thinking that, you could trust other clubs to stick to the rules, and act honorably. You also trusted the overseers of those rules, the FA, to act in a fair manner and intercede if they didn't. Another mistake as it turned out.

You also accepted Liverpool's apologise and promise to withdrawal from any other activity to unsettle him, A mistake, you should have pushed the complaint with the FA.

 

You trusted the player and his agents to honor the contract, particularly as he had only just signed it. Mistake

 

The first alarm bell should have been when this player changed agents, to the aggressive Wasserman Group. You should have known that they would have wanted an early payday. Mistake.

 

Now there has been talk that things were not right between yourself and the player back in March. It was also said that the club wanted to test the waters with the value of the player. I don't care if you did, that doesn't matter if you 'informally' asked other likely buyers how much they were likely to pay for him. Another mistake,

nothing is informal dealing with transfer valuations. Whilst some clubs would understand we are not making the player available, others would see it as a green light. Besides an unscrupilous agent would be in touch with them, telling them different. Trusting interested clubs and trusting agents, bad mistake. Especially if one of those clubs has 'form' and the agent concerned is Wassermans, the very same agents who had burned our fingers the previous season over our manager Ronald Koeman.

 

You were let down by the player and let down by Liverpool FC, and that is disrespectful. Both parties, I would imagine thought you and the club weren't serious about wanting to keep the player a long time. They most likely based that on past experience, the player had seen other players go to Liverpool almost at will, and Liverpool thought we had some sort of special relationship that provided them with players they wanted. That perception will need to be changed, and to be fair, you have tried changing that in this case. But it will take time to lose the selling club label. But you are right it has to be changed if we are to progress.

 

All this is water under the bridge now, we may as well write off our chances of keeping the player. Although it doesn't necessarily mean he has to go to Liverpool FC. Fortunately, there are some top teams interested.

 

We need to move on which means this player will have to be replaced as soon as possible. Certainly, before the window closes. Other players in the squad may have been disaffected by the situation and by showing that we still have ambitions by replacing him with quality, may stop them trying to follow his route out of the club. Southampton FC's needs must come first, in future, and this should be made abundantly clear to all.

 

You should be thinking of curtailing the access to the club by agents, some clubs insist that they only visit the club by appointment or invitation. It almost seems as if our club is a fertile recruiting ground for agents. Players access to the social media has to be looked at, and discouraged. This last crisis was played out almost at will on Twitter or similar outlets.

 

And Les, no more Mr. Nice guy with Liverpool or the FA. Provide the FA with all the evidence concerning this case, and insist they take disciplinary action to protect clubs like us, from those who think they have divine right to first choice of any players.

[Heisenberg]

If the tone and strategy of the club has changed then great - might however have been better to make an example of someone not worth £60-80m

 

The price tag on VVD makes this one extra tricky

[darren2]

Have you thought of applying for the job when Les goes?

[Smirking_Saint]

Im not even going to bother reading that, but Id suggest Les has done a pretty sterling job so far against a player holding a gun to his head

 

If he manages to get our asking price or more I literally cant see how he can come out of this with much, if any criticism

[ALWAYS_SFC]

Have you thought of applying for the job when Les goes?

 

Good god!! can you imagine it

[OttawaSaint]

Good god!! can you imagine it

 

Would be interesting to see what stance he (gla$gow) would take:

 

He was spamming this board about us selling so easily and not standing firm (Mane etc.).

 

and now

 

He is spamming the board for not selling VVD and scaring away others from the stepping stone approach.

 

If you thought that Lowe was nuts...

[Turkish]

Im not even going to bother reading that, but Id suggest Les has done a pretty sterling job so far against a player holding a gun to his head

 

If he manages to get our asking price or more I literally cant see how he can come out of this with much, if any criticism

 

Patred will find a way, he always does

 

Remember This is a guy who once invented a football match so he could have a pop at Les Reed over the signing of Jos Hooliveld, providing a detailed match report and assessment of Hoolivleds performance in a match that never took place.

[patred44]

Im not even going to bother reading that, but Id suggest Les has done a pretty sterling job so far against a player holding a gun to his head

 

If he manages to get our asking price or more I literally cant see how he can come out of this with much, if any criticism

 

by ignoring the mistakes made will only lead to them happening again. And, the only critcism of Les in that is for being too trusting

[COMEONYOUREDS]

Cringe

[Unbelievable Jeff]

First Les, congratulations on standing up to VD and forcing him to put in a transfer request.

 

But let's look how we arrived at this impossible position. You had the player tied into a long contract, as you have others. Normally you would think we would be safe from any vultures covetting our players for the length of their contracts.

That was a mistake! thinking that, you could trust other clubs to stick to the rules, and act honorably. You also trusted the overseers of those rules, the FA, to act in a fair manner and intercede if they didn't. Another mistake as it turned out.

You also accepted Liverpool's apologise and promise to withdrawal from any other activity to unsettle him, A mistake, you should have pushed the complaint with the FA.

 

You trusted the player and his agents to honor the contract, particularly as he had only just signed it. Mistake

 

The first alarm bell should have been when this player changed agents, to the aggressive Wasserman Group. You should have known that they would have wanted an early payday. Mistake.

 

Now there has been talk that things were not right between yourself and the player back in March. It was also said that the club wanted to test the waters with the value of the player. I don't care if you did, that doesn't matter if you 'informally' asked other likely buyers how much they were likely to pay for him. Another mistake,

nothing is informal dealing with transfer valuations. Whilst some clubs would understand we are not making the player available, others would see it as a green light. Besides an unscrupilous agent would be in touch with them, telling them different. Trusting interested clubs and trusting agents, bad mistake. Especially if one of those clubs has 'form' and the agent concerned is Wassermans, the very same agents who had burned our fingers the previous season over our manager Ronald Koeman.

 

You were let down by the player and let down by Liverpool FC, and that is disrespectful. Both parties, I would imagine thought you and the club weren't serious about wanting to keep the player a long time. They most likely based that on past experience, the player had seen other players go to Liverpool almost at will, and Liverpool thought we had some sort of special relationship that provided them with players they wanted. That perception will need to be changed, and to be fair, you have tried changing that in this case. But it will take time to lose the selling club label. But you are right it has to be changed if we are to progress.

 

All this is water under the bridge now, we may as well write off our chances of keeping the player. Although it doesn't necessarily mean he has to go to Liverpool FC. Fortunately, there are some top teams interested.

 

We need to move on which means this player will have to be replaced as soon as possible. Certainly, before the window closes. Other players in the squad may have been disaffected by the situation and by showing that we still have ambitions by replacing him with quality, may stop them trying to follow his route out of the club. Southampton FC's needs must come first, in future, and this should be made abundantly clear to all.

 

You should be thinking of curtailing the access to the club by agents, some clubs insist that they only visit the club by appointment or invitation. It almost seems as if our club is a fertile recruiting ground for agents. Players access to the social media has to be looked at, and discouraged. This last crisis was played out almost at will on Twitter or similar outlets.

 

And Les, no more Mr. Nice guy with Liverpool or the FA. Provide the FA with all the evidence concerning this case, and insist they take disciplinary action to protect clubs like us, from those who think they have divine right to first choice of any players.

 

It's odd reading something that is full of so many strawman arguments being treated as fact.

[patred44]

Patred will find a way, he always does

 

Remember This is a guy who once invented a football match so he could have a pop at Les Reed over the signing of Jos Hooliveld, providing a detailed match report and assessment of Hoolivleds performance in a match that never took place.

 

god 10 years ago, and it was nothing like you claim...in any case there is no criticism of Les Reed in that above other than he was to trusting dealing with unscrupulous characters in the form of LFC, Wassermans, and the player himself. I doubt if you read it.

[Wes Tender]

Although there is the appearance given that there were a lot of assumptions made by the OP, and much conjecture about how the Virgil situation came about, it is indeed reassuring that right here on this very fans' forum, we have somebody who not only is well versed in the thought processes off the management, but also eminently qualified to offer expert advice about how we should be prepared to proceed the next time. Even more astounding, is that it seems to be the case that this expert advice is offered gratis.

 

We are truly blessed to have this degree of managerial expertise so freely given.

[SKD]

Im not even going to bother reading that, but Id suggest Les has done a pretty sterling job so far against a player holding a gun to his head

 

If he manages to get our asking price or more I literally cant see how he can come out of this with much, if any criticism

 

Spot on - the only criticism will be if we sell to Liverpool, no matter the fee.

 

Deep down we may have wanted to sell all along, but i'd say the board have done a pretty fantastic job in this whole saga, so far.

[angelman]

I got to "The first alarm bell should have been when this player changed agents, to the aggressive Wasserman Group. You should have known that they would have wanted an early payday. Mistake." and gave up. What complete and utter bull crap. Do you seriously believe this, that the player appoints Jansen as his agent and Reed has no idea what is going to happen. That he signs a 6 year contract and then changes agent, and doesn't know what is going to happen. **** me some of our so called supporters. You obviously think that Reed is a complete and utter moron.

[Micky]

Watch where you step.

[Guan 2.0]

If you gear people ask the club why they don't partake in a fan's forum anymore, this is why.

[S-Clarke]

I'm not sure what mistakes he has made. What you suggest in terms of agents is out of the clubs control - and any club to be honest. Players are free to go with whoever they want, unless there is a law coming in that I don't know of, this won't change.

[Guan 2.0]

Hear* Fans'*

[Greenridge]

If you gear people ask the club why they don't partake in a fan's forum anymore, this is why.

 

In case a customer dare offer a critique? It's not North Korea.

[hypochondriac]

In case a customer dare offer a critique? It's not North Korea.

No because dins think they know something blindingly obvious that those who run the club in their mind do not know.

[Greenridge]

No because dins think they know something blindingly obvious that those who run the club in their mind do not know.

 

Well that's a different matter. Dins will be dins

[danjosaint]

Well that's a different matter. Dins will be dins

 

Mistake he did make tho is not signing a cb when fonte left made even worse now knowing he knew Virgil wanted out

[danjosaint]

Sorry didn't mean to quote that, damn phone

[brmbrm]

Im not even going to bother reading that, but Id suggest Les has done a pretty sterling job so far against a player holding a gun to his head

 

If he manages to get our asking price or more I literally cant see how he can come out of this with much, if any criticism

 

Well I wasted a few minutes in actuallt reading it, and almost all of the thing Patred calls "mistake" is total ********! Lol out loud at the "tie them to a long contract = mistake"

[Golac's Cunning Stunts]

Patred will find a way, he always does

 

Remember This is a guy who once invented a football match so he could have a pop at Les Reed over the signing of Jos Hooliveld, providing a detailed match report and assessment of Hoolivleds performance in a match that never took place.

 

LMFAO did he really...don't remember that :-)

[a1ex2001]

Mistake he did make tho is not signing a cb when fonte left made even worse now knowing he knew Virgil wanted out

 

Stephens is fonte's replacementvare fair play to the lad he has stepped up and taken the opportunity. If VVD goes we will need another experienced cb but I think the club are going to give him the Morgan's treatment which worked well enough!

[Fan The Flames]

by ignoring the mistakes made will only lead to them happening again. And, the only critcism of Les in that is for being too trusting

 

OP a lot of effort for a load of ********.

[eurosaint]

Given that Les signed the guy for £13mil and who is now worth circa £70 mil, given that he has stood firm against an illegal approach and given that he is not allowing the arrogant git to take the p!ss, then I reckon that he has done a pretty good job !

It's certainly not his fault that many agents are complete and utter reptiles, it's just unfortunate that he sometimes has to deal with them !

[View From The Top]

What an absolute pile of sh_it from another Class A dinlo.

[Turkish]

LMFAO did he really...don't remember that :-)

 

He certainly did. When we signed Jos he claimed he had seen him play for Celtic in a scottish cup match v Inverness a few weeks earlier. He gave a detailed account of Jos's woeful performance in which he gave away a penalty and got sent off. It was quiet soon after pointed out that there hadn't been a scottish cup tie between the two teams so he changed his story to a preseason friendly. Again it was pointed out there there was no record of the game on either clubs preseason friendly results or anywhere else he claimed it was actually a behind closed doors friendly, presumably which he somehow got in to see and is the only person on the planet who knew it ever happened.

[whelk]

He certainly did. When we signed Jos he claimed he had seen him play for Celtic in a scottish cup match v Inverness a few weeks earlier. He gave a detailed account of Jos's woeful performance in which he gave away a penalty and got sent off. It was quiet soon after pointed out that there hadn't been a scottish cup tie between the two teams so he changed his story to a preseason friendly. Again it was pointed out there there was no record of the game on either clubs preseason friendly results or anywhere else he claimed it was actually a behind closed doors friendly, presumably which he somehow got in to see and is the only person on the planet who knew it ever happened.

 

I was at that game. Jos played a blinder

[OttawaSaint]

I was at that game. Jos played a blinder

 

It was the Glasgow Saint banning memorial match. Jos was wonderful. Glasgow's mate Robbie Williams played for both teams.

Edited 8 August, 2017 by OttawaSaint

[Dusic]

Think Reed has got the key things right this summer so far.

 

- Right to sack Puel

- Pellegrino looks a promising appointment

- Big signing in our most needed area

- Holding off bigger, richer clubs who are interested in our players. When VVD goes I think it will be the right call as his situation is untenable.

 

Only issue for me would be the handling of the CB position from the point Fonte was allowed to leave. Plus not clearing deadwood like Gardos, Clasie and Long but thats not so easy.

[egg]

I got as far as it's Les's fault that he tied our best player to a long contract and that Liverpool then acted like ****s. Bad man Les, should have seen that coming. Ffs.

[St Jim]

He certainly did. When we signed Jos he claimed he had seen him play for Celtic in a scottish cup match v Inverness a few weeks earlier. He gave a detailed account of Jos's woeful performance in which he gave away a penalty and got sent off. It was quiet soon after pointed out that there hadn't been a scottish cup tie between the two teams so he changed his story to a preseason friendly. Again it was pointed out there there was no record of the game on either clubs preseason friendly results or anywhere else he claimed it was actually a behind closed doors friendly, presumably which he somehow got in to see and is the only person on the planet who knew it ever happened.

 

that is gold!

[alpine_saint]

mistakes, BIG mistakes, have been made over the past 3 years leading SFC to have the reputation of being a selling club again. Back in the Paul Mitchell days, it seemed we had a Midas-like ability to pull a rabbit out of the hat to replace the sales, so it didnt matter. But that ability seems to have waned, whilst we are still seen as an easy touch.

 

Hopefully Uncle Les has woken up to the danger of being seen as a persistently easier and easier touch, and is finally making a stand.

 

Just as likely we will wake up tomorrow to find we've accepted 45m from liverpool...

[Rory Peepa]

What a load of tosh! Do you really think that a man who's paid to do that role doesn't know all that. Les is clearly restrained from above and gets littke say in transfer policy. I think originally VVD was going to be happy to give us one more season but then he got injured, the team's form stayed pretty indifferent while he was out and with the WC coming up that has made his mind up. Forgive me if I'm wrong but I don't recall ever hearing what exactly that ankle injury was? Maybe that has spooked him.

 

Regardless it is time for him to go now. Let's say we got 50M - I'd be delighted if that money was properly invested in the team on say a CB and a no10 but we all know it won't be. I still think we have gone backwards while everyone else pretty much has stepped up. It's so competitive now that fine margins are the difference between 8 th and being in a dogfight.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[saint-crinny]

You've obviously given this plenty of thought but it's based on a load of assumptions that you have know idea if they are correct or not. Do you believe that Les felt the six year contract was the end of any issues? Or that all the big boys would be "honourable" because he is so naïve? A guy who has worked in football all his life and yet some on here seem to act as though we have plucked him out of an admin role at a nursery.

 

On this one, I don't particularly feel we've made any mistakes - we're just a victim of our success in terms of player recruitment. Who else, as a team of our size has picked out a world class player that the big boys aren't prepared to buy and turned them into one of the most coveted players around and then not sold them?

 

This summer, look at the transfers that are happening/will happen - Lukaku gone despite Everton throwing money at him. Sigurdsson set to go too. Unfortunately, as Carragher and Redknapp so distastefully articulated it the other night, there is an order in football and there are teams above us that if our players are good enough, will always want to play for. And they will ultimately get what they want in almost every case.

 

Would we rather keep signing these top players in waiting, knowing we will lose them, or just be a West Brom type - sign players no one in the top four would ever be interested but they hopefully do a job and keep us up?

 

I'd rather we get to see these players for a few years to be honest, as much as I hate having to go through this saga with them almost every time. the only time we wont be facing this kind of thing is if we start signing average players - you could argue this has already started as some recent signings haven't taken off and people are kicking off about that too.

[OttawaSaint]

mistakes, BIG mistakes, have been made over the past 3 years leading SFC to have the reputation of being a selling club again. Back in the Paul Mitchell days, it seemed we had a Midas-like ability to pull a rabbit out of the hat to replace the sales, so it didnt matter. But that ability seems to have waned, whilst we are still seen as an easy touch.

 

Hopefully Uncle Les has woken up to the danger of being seen as a persistently easier and easier touch, and is finally making a stand.

 

Just as likely we will wake up tomorrow to find we've accepted 45m from liverpool...

 

What utter tosh!

[inoffthepost]

If you think about recent history then I believe this to be the evolution of 'The Southampton Way' and what I think we should rename as 'Shot in the foot'! A long contract is no guarantee of a player staying it just protects Saints assets.

VVD needs to go now, BUT not Liverpool, and we need to re-invest in at least one proven, premier league experienced, centre back. We haven't replaced Jose yet!

MoPe needs to be given a fair crack and it'll take one injury to Jack Stephens or Maya Yoshida and we'll be in the cack.

[Chez]

First Les, congratulations on standing up to VD and forcing him to put in a transfer request.

 

But let's look how we arrived at this impossible position. You had the player tied into a long contract, as you have others. Normally you would think we would be safe from any vultures covetting our players for the length of their contracts.

That was a mistake! thinking that, you could trust other clubs to stick to the rules, and act honorably. You also trusted the overseers of those rules, the FA, to act in a fair manner and intercede if they didn't. Another mistake as it turned out.

You also accepted Liverpool's apologise and promise to withdrawal from any other activity to unsettle him, A mistake, you should have pushed the complaint with the FA.

 

You trusted the player and his agents to honor the contract, particularly as he had only just signed it. Mistake

 

The first alarm bell should have been when this player changed agents, to the aggressive Wasserman Group. You should have known that they would have wanted an early payday. Mistake.

 

Now there has been talk that things were not right between yourself and the player back in March. It was also said that the club wanted to test the waters with the value of the player. I don't care if you did, that doesn't matter if you 'informally' asked other likely buyers how much they were likely to pay for him. Another mistake,

nothing is informal dealing with transfer valuations. Whilst some clubs would understand we are not making the player available, others would see it as a green light. Besides an unscrupilous agent would be in touch with them, telling them different. Trusting interested clubs and trusting agents, bad mistake. Especially if one of those clubs has 'form' and the agent concerned is Wassermans, the very same agents who had burned our fingers the previous season over our manager Ronald Koeman.

 

You were let down by the player and let down by Liverpool FC, and that is disrespectful. Both parties, I would imagine thought you and the club weren't serious about wanting to keep the player a long time. They most likely based that on past experience, the player had seen other players go to Liverpool almost at will, and Liverpool thought we had some sort of special relationship that provided them with players they wanted. That perception will need to be changed, and to be fair, you have tried changing that in this case. But it will take time to lose the selling club label. But you are right it has to be changed if we are to progress.

 

All this is water under the bridge now, we may as well write off our chances of keeping the player. Although it doesn't necessarily mean he has to go to Liverpool FC. Fortunately, there are some top teams interested.

 

We need to move on which means this player will have to be replaced as soon as possible. Certainly, before the window closes. Other players in the squad may have been disaffected by the situation and by showing that we still have ambitions by replacing him with quality, may stop them trying to follow his route out of the club. Southampton FC's needs must come first, in future, and this should be made abundantly clear to all.

 

You should be thinking of curtailing the access to the club by agents, some clubs insist that they only visit the club by appointment or invitation. It almost seems as if our club is a fertile recruiting ground for agents. Players access to the social media has to be looked at, and discouraged. This last crisis was played out almost at will on Twitter or similar outlets.

 

And Les, no more Mr. Nice guy with Liverpool or the FA. Provide the FA with all the evidence concerning this case, and insist they take disciplinary action to protect clubs like us, from those who think they have divine right to first choice of any players.

 

Using my valuable time to read this post. Mistake.

[S-Clarke]

If there is one thing you could have guaranteed from this post is that Alpine would be in full agreement with it.

 

Job done.

[East Kent Saint]

To be fair Guan this forum is fairly tame compared with some I've read . Keyboard warriors are a modern pheonenom , it seems no one , however eminent in their speciality , are shouted down / abused / subject to death theats / from the great internet , mainly ignorant , using public .