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Mario Lemina - Official: Signs for Nice

Heisenberg

By Heisenberg,
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verlaine1979

verlaine1979

Posted
Posted
Which “2”?

 

4-2-2-2 with our current squad is still tricky. As I understand it, basically all of the 2s need to be pretty mobile, as they regularly switch from central to wide positions depending on where the press is happening etc. As such, I wonder whether either of our obvious deep 2 (Rom and Hoj) actually have the mobility to cover the necessary ground. Playing Lemina as part of the deep 2 would certainly give us more mobility there, but you'd think a spine of Hoj/Lemina - Djenepo/Redmond - Ings/Adams would get picked off pretty easily.

 

Wonder if we might end up defaulting to 4-3-3 just to make the most of who we've got, with Rom sitting, Hoj and Lemina ahead of him, and then a front three of Redmond, Djenepo and Adams.

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Dellman

Dellman

Posted
Posted
4-2-2-2 with our current squad is still tricky. As I understand it, basically all of the 2s need to be pretty mobile, as they regularly switch from central to wide positions depending on where the press is happening etc. As such, I wonder whether either of our obvious deep 2 (Rom and Hoj) actually have the mobility to cover the necessary ground. Playing Lemina as part of the deep 2 would certainly give us more mobility there, but you'd think a spine of Hoj/Lemina - Djenepo/Redmond - Ings/Adams would get picked off pretty easily.

 

Wonder if we might end up defaulting to 4-3-3 just to make the most of who we've got, with Rom sitting, Hoj and Lemina ahead of him, and then a front three of Redmond, Djenepo and Adams.

 

Where's JWP?

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stevy777_x

stevy777_x

Posted
Posted

Sell when the player's value is at its highest, otherwise no need to sell as he can clearly offer us a lot.

Ditto for Boufal, what is the point of selling at 8m when the guy has so much potential.

 

Targett on the other hand, we sold when probably his value was at its highest over his time with us, so that is job well done.

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mrfahaji

mrfahaji

Posted
Posted
Where's JWP?

 

Not there, clearly.

 

If Hasenhuttl thinks JWP should be playing, then that's great. But I think it's a positive that we have a few interchangeable players, none of whom are obvious weaknesses, especially in midfield.

 

If you take verlaine's 4-3-3, with backups in brackets

 

Gunn (McCarthy)

Valery (Ramsay?)

Vestergaard (Bednarek)

Yoshida (Bednarek/Stephens)

Bertrand (Vokins)

Romeu (Hojbjerg?)

Hojbjerg (JWP)

Lemina (JWP)

Redmond (Boufal)

Djenepo (Boufal/Armstrong/Sims)

Adams (Ings)

 

It doesn't look too bad. Big issue for me is obviously centre backs - in that neither of our first choices are great, and that Stephens is not good enough even to be a back up. Then there are a few questions about quality in reserve - mainly at full back and defensive midfield. I'm also not sure Valery is yet at the level across his whole game, but appreciate that he needs the chance to develop and has shown promise of becoming a really good player.

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simo

simo

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Posted
Not there, clearly.

 

If Hasenhuttl thinks JWP should be playing, then that's great. But I think it's a positive that we have a few interchangeable players, none of whom are obvious weaknesses, especially in midfield.

 

If you take verlaine's 4-3-3, with backups in brackets

 

Gunn (McCarthy)

Valery (Ramsay?)

Vestergaard (Bednarek)

Yoshida (Bednarek/Stephens)

Bertrand (Vokins)

Romeu (Hojbjerg?)

Hojbjerg (JWP)

Lemina (JWP)

Redmond (Boufal)

Djenepo (Boufal/Armstrong/Sims)

Adams (Ings)

 

It doesn't look too bad. Big issue for me is obviously centre backs - in that neither of our first choices are great, and that Stephens is not good enough even to be a back up. Then there are a few questions about quality in reserve - mainly at full back and defensive midfield. I'm also not sure Valery is yet at the level across his whole game, but appreciate that he needs the chance to develop and has shown promise of becoming a really good player.

 

Bednarek was our best Cb by far last season why have you got him as a back up ?

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mrfahaji

mrfahaji

Posted
Posted
Bednarek was our best Cb by far last season why have you got him as a back up ?

 

No reason especially, you could swap him for one of the other two. I put Vestergaard and Yoshida together because they are the two opposites - one big guy, one quick guy - whereas Bednarek is more of an all rounder. By the same token you could argue that JWP should be in one of the midfield spots.

 

I wasn't advocating that that SHOULD be our first XI, it was more an assessment of strength in depth.

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Window Cleaner

Window Cleaner

Posted
Posted
Good riddance when he leaves - he could be a real star but does not seem to have the right mindset.

 

One moment looks real class, the next utterly terrible.

 

I cannot see him ever being a Ralph type player.

 

Erratic is what you mean, which is probably why Juventus wanted to sell him.

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Heisenberg

Heisenberg

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^ I agree. Mario has posted about 12 photos to Instagram this past 10 weeks!! Where does he get the time to do this?

 

When will we learn that selling your best players moves the club in one direction!?

 

Regardless of how we try to discredit players and try to convince ourselves otherwise.

 

Selling your best players has left us with 3 miserable years. We have very decent players few left, so I'd suggest keeping the decent players and focusing on dumping the utter crud

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TWar

TWar

Posted
Posted

Probably wants a new start professionally as well as personally due to the break up. Don't blame him to be honest, a fresh start is often good to get life back on track. Also the problem is as a box to box midfielder he is too good to be on the bench for a mid table prem side but also isn't as good as Hoj or jwp. Owing to this, best for all parties would be to sell and replace with a pure DM destroyer to challenge Romeu and play next to Hoj/JWP

 

Sent from my G3311 using Tapatalk

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SKD

SKD

Posted
Posted
Probably wants a new start professionally as well as personally due to the break up. Don't blame him to be honest, a fresh start is often good to get life back on track. Also the problem is as a box to box midfielder he is too good to be on the bench for a mid table prem side but also isn't as good as Hoj or jwp. Owing to this, best for all parties would be to sell and replace with a pure DM destroyer to challenge Romeu and play next to Hoj/JWP

 

Sent from my G3311 using Tapatalk

 

On his day he is much better than PEH and JWP. His problem is fitness and consistency.

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Useful Idiot

Useful Idiot

Posted
Posted

He's a brilliant player on his day, but he's more a direct competitor for PEH's place as I don't think they work well as a pair. Whenever they do both start we look far too open as neither of them is particularly disciplined defensively.

 

I think PEH will pretty much be the first name on the team sheet as he's the team captain, so ML probably won't play that much even though at his best he's probably better then PEH at his best. Problem is he doesn't play at the top of his game all the time.

 

Due to that, I'm not fussed if he goes as long as we get a decent sale value from him.

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Useful Idiot

Useful Idiot

Posted
Posted
Brilliant???????

 

He’s really not.

 

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

I think you might be suffering from bias when making that statement.

 

On his day, he's the best player in our team by a mile, and even when he's not playing brilliantly he is still one of our better players. The problem is that he can't work in combination with Hojbjerg, not that either of them are bad players. In many ways, he is the better player of the two, as well.

 

Statistically, he has the highest pass completion percentage of any of our players (86%) and is up there for tackles and interceptions as well.

 

He's also good at taking players on, he tries it more often than Hojbjerg and succeeds more often.

 

He wins more areal challenges than Hojbjerg.

 

He has fewer poor touches that lead to the ball being lost than Hojbjerg.

 

He is good at striking a football.

 

He is pretty quick.

 

He is strong and very difficult to knock off the ball.

 

Most of the time, he's disappointing because it's obvious that he has the potential to be an incredible player, but for whatever reason it rarely happens and on his good days, he is brilliant.

 

You don't play for Juventus in the Champions League and win a MOTM award unless you're extremely talented.

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Dusic

Dusic

Posted
Posted
I think you might be suffering from bias when making that statement.

 

On his day, he's the best player in our team by a mile, and even when he's not playing brilliantly he is still one of our better players. The problem is that he can't work in combination with Hojbjerg, not that either of them are bad players. In many ways, he is the better player of the two, as well.

 

Statistically, he has the highest pass completion percentage of any of our players (86%) and is up there for tackles and interceptions as well.

 

He's also good at taking players on, he tries it more often than Hojbjerg and succeeds more often.

 

He wins more areal challenges than Hojbjerg.

 

He has fewer poor touches that lead to the ball being lost than Hojbjerg.

 

He is good at striking a football.

 

He is pretty quick.

 

He is strong and very difficult to knock off the ball.

 

Most of the time, he's disappointing because it's obvious that he has the potential to be an incredible player, but for whatever reason it rarely happens and on his good days, he is brilliant.

 

You don't play for Juventus in the Champions League and win a MOTM award unless you're extremely talented.

I agree with most of this. There have been a handful of games, Palace away under Pellegrino, Bournemouth at home under Hughes where has absolutely bossed the game and looked an £80m midfielder.

 

He clearly has the talent and physical attributes to be a really good player.

 

But if he did it often then he would be starting for Juve now.

 

IMO under a decent Manager he could be more consistent so I hope he gets a chance to show it, but once players start talking about leaving its usually better to let them go.

 

I would prefer he went abroad though as feel otherwise he will come back to haunt us and quadruple his value after a good season.

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saint77

saint77

Posted
Posted
I think you might be suffering from bias when making that statement.

 

On his day, he's the best player in our team by a mile, and even when he's not playing brilliantly he is still one of our better players. The problem is that he can't work in combination with Hojbjerg, not that either of them are bad players. In many ways, he is the better player of the two, as well.

 

Statistically, he has the highest pass completion percentage of any of our players (86%) and is up there for tackles and interceptions as well.

 

He's also good at taking players on, he tries it more often than Hojbjerg and succeeds more often.

 

He wins more areal challenges than Hojbjerg.

 

He has fewer poor touches that lead to the ball being lost than Hojbjerg.

 

He is good at striking a football.

 

He is pretty quick.

 

He is strong and very difficult to knock off the ball.

 

Most of the time, he's disappointing because it's obvious that he has the potential to be an incredible player, but for whatever reason it rarely happens and on his good days, he is brilliant.

 

You don't play for Juventus in the Champions League and win a MOTM award unless you're extremely talented.

 

Good man spot on exactly the way I see it

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Badger

Badger

Posted
Posted

 

 

On his day, he's the best player in our team by a mile, and even when he's not playing brilliantly he is still one of our better players. The problem is that he can't work in combination with Hojbjerg, not that either of them are bad players. In many ways, he is the better player of the two, as well.

 

...... but for whatever reason it rarely happens and on his good days, he is brilliant.

 

You don't play for Juventus in the Champions League and win a MOTM award unless you're extremely talented.

 

There just aren't enough of his good days though to count on him.

 

If Ralph could 'unlock' whatever it is in Lemina's head then I agree he is potentially a standout performer and the discussion on here is how we don't want him going to Man U or wherever.

 

Hojberg who you compare him with, gives us 7 or 8 solid/decent if not spectacular performances out of 10 matches, Lemina may give us one outstanding, one okay, and the rest 'can't be arsed' type showings. Which is better to try and develop a team around ?

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Useful Idiot

Useful Idiot

Posted
Posted

Hojbjerg has a better mentality than Lemina and is more able to motivate those around him.

 

Lemina is a more technically talented footballer and a better athlete in terms of agility, power, and pace.

 

At the moment, our team needs Hojbjerg more than it does Lemina, and our formation means we can't play both of them.

 

As I said a few posts before the one you quoted, I don't think it's a bad idea to let Lemina go for the right money.

 

I also think if we regularly played a midfield 3 then Hojbjerg, Romeu, Lemina would be a very strong combination. But we don't, so Lemina is the best one of the three to sell as I don't think we can keep them all happy.

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Useful Idiot

Useful Idiot

Posted
Posted
Why does it need to be Hoj or Lemina? Both are 2 of our better players and we should not be looking to sell either of them.

 

Plenty that should be sold. Not Lemina

 

Squad is not 11 players

 

Because he won't be happy to sit on the bench, Hojbjerg is the first name on the team sheet, and they can't play together as a midfield pair.

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Chewy

Chewy

Posted
Posted

I'd try and keep him, think either him or JWP on the 'right' with Hoj and a DM in the middle. Either Lemina or JWP could swap into the middle to cover when Hoj is inevitably suspended. 3 midfielders into 2 starting places works on a squad level over a season (with slattery as back up).

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Lord Duckhunter

Lord Duckhunter

Posted
Posted
I think you might be suffering from bias when making that statement.

 

On his day, he's the best player in our team by a mile, and even when he's not playing brilliantly he is still one of our better players. The problem is that he can't work in combination with Hojbjerg, not that either of them are bad players. In many ways, he is the better player of the two, as well.

 

Statistically, he has the highest pass completion percentage of any of our players (86%) and is up there for tackles and interceptions as well.

 

He's also good at taking players on, he tries it more often than Hojbjerg and succeeds more often.

 

He wins more areal challenges than Hojbjerg.

 

He has fewer poor touches that lead to the ball being lost than Hojbjerg.

 

He is good at striking a football.

 

He is pretty quick.

 

He is strong and very difficult to knock off the ball.

 

Most of the time, he's disappointing because it's obvious that he has the potential to be an incredible player, but for whatever reason it rarely happens and on his good days, he is brilliant.

 

If you think he’s brilliant, you’ve obviously got lower standards than me. Being the best player in our team doesn’t make a player “brilliant “ as we’re an incredibly average side. He’s nowhere near the top 50 of players I’ve seen play in 40+ years of watching. People throw compliments around too easily nowadays. He’s played well in a few games for an average side, that’s all. Hardly “brilliant “.

 

 

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SKD

SKD

Posted
Posted
If you think he’s brilliant, you’ve obviously got lower standards than me. Being the best player in our team doesn’t make a player “brilliant “ as we’re an incredibly average side. He’s nowhere near the top 50 of players I’ve seen play in 40+ years of watching. People throw compliments around too easily nowadays. He’s played well in a few games for an average side, that’s all. Hardly “brilliant “.

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

Didn’t you once claim that Stephens was better than Maguire... you’ve obviously got a terrible judge of ability.

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SKD

SKD

Posted
Posted
Why does it need to be Hoj or Lemina? Both are 2 of our better players and we should not be looking to sell either of them.

 

Plenty that should be sold. Not Lemina

 

Squad is not 11 players

 

Both would work in a 3 but not a two. Neither have enough defensive discipline, so it depends on the system Ralph wants to play.

 

Personally I’d play them both in a 433 and upgrade on Romeu.

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Dark Munster

Dark Munster

Posted
Posted
If you think he’s brilliant, you’ve obviously got lower standards than me. Being the best player in our team doesn’t make a player “brilliant “ as we’re an incredibly average side. He’s nowhere near the top 50 of players I’ve seen play in 40+ years of watching. People throw compliments around too easily nowadays. He’s played well in a few games for an average side, that’s all. Hardly “brilliant “.

 

 

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You're right, he's not (yet) a brilliant player. But on his day he is brilliant, which I think is the point. Unfortunately "on his day" is extremely rare.

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wild-saint

wild-saint

Posted
Posted

The player is flawed, all about himself and not the team, happy to take risks in poor areas ultimately giving the ball away in dangerous areas. Flatters to deceive going forward and doesn’t really add goals from midfield. Plus side he does look good when he takes on players and gets passed his man.

 

Easy sell for me particularly if we spend the money well.

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DuncanRG

DuncanRG

Posted
Posted

Funny that no one's raging at him for those quotes like they did Lovren and the rest. Why does it only matter when they're an important player?

 

Anyway, it is a shame we couldn't get the best out of him consistently. I wonder if he performs better as a smaller fish in a bigger pond.

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