An article that will divide opinion

[doddisalegend]

Transfers, near misses and a reluctance to splash out: Explaining Southampton's current predicament

 

http://www.bing.com/news/apiclick.aspx?ref=BDIGeneric&aid=C98EA5B0842DBB9405BBF071E1DA7651530FFE51&tid=43AB3080B0E8479FB4DF424E7EA7606D&url=https%3a%2f%2fwww.vavel.com%2fen%2ffootball%2fpremier-league%2fsouthampton%2f813889-dd.html&c=1149613565684242194&mkt=en-gb

[Heisenberg]

Its spot on. People dont like to hear it or read it but its accurate

[doddisalegend]

Its spot on. People dont like to hear it or read it but its accurate

 

 

Lolz if I were a betting man...

[shurlock]

I thought all we needed to do was to replace Puel, according to the forum intellectuals.

[James]

The precedent point is a good one. I do think players come here expecting to be allowed to leave given what has happened before. I'm not clear on how actively we use this as a selling point for new recruits but the club has an image as being a stepping stone club which will be tough to shake (although Les appears to be doing his best this summer).

 

Hard to argue that our pre season has been pretty bad so far. Not all the club's fault but only have ourselves to blame for not bringing in players bar a reserve CB that looks about as far from ready for a PL pitch as Pompey do.

[yellow&blue]

No revelations here.......

[doddisalegend]

I thought all we needed to do was to replace Puel, according to the forum intellectuals.

 

 

I think that was the consensus a super talented team being dragged down by the manger so this season I guess we will find out.

[Heisenberg]

I think that was the consensus a super talented team being dragged down by the manger so this season I guess we will find out.

 

Said literally nobody

[James]

I think that was the consensus a super talented team being dragged down by the manger so this season I guess we will find out.

 

Not sure anyone said they were super talented, more that they were probably capable of scoring at least one goal in the final six home games or whatever it was. By the end of the Puel tenure they were not playing for him, that was relatively clear to a regular attendee at St Mary's. I expect Pellegrino to get more out of the squad than Puel but also acknowledge that it has limitations and that MP has arguably been hung out to dry by the club's lack of transfer activity. People said Puel was not supported by Reed in the market but at least he had some latitude to bring players in whereas MP hasn't had any.

[Pamplemousse]

I prefer our approach to West Ham's, for instance.

 

However, we do need a defender, minimum. I'd also be in favour of shipping Clasie out and bringing in a new defensive midfielder. I don't think we'll bring one in without someone leaving though.

[CB Fry]

What predicament are we in again?

[beatlesaint]

It's a fair article, if we aren't in a predicament yet it certainly signposts the issues

[Secret Site Agent]

Its spot on. People dont like to hear it or read it but its accurate

 

My god, are you always so down? I wouldn't be surprised if your blood group was B Negative.

 

This is a bit early to say, is it not? We finished 8th last year, not 17th.

At least give us a chance to **** up this year before we all start sneering 'I told you so.'

Who knows, perhaps MoPe is right and if he stops the team from playing like a bunch of individuals and plays like a team, and we achieve getting as few in we might surprise and flatter again.

[Wurzel]

predicament

prɪˈdɪkəm(ə)nt/

noun

noun: predicament; plural noun: predicaments

 

1.

a difficult, unpleasant, or embarrassing situation.

 

A club that's firmly established itself in the top half of the "best league in the world" ? Feel free to to keep embarrassing me with these difficult unpleasant situations.

 

Could we have done better (i.e. finished higher) over the period referred to in the article? Probably.

Couldn't every club in the league also have done better ? Almost definitely.

[shurlock]

I think the precedent point is overblown. Good players will always clamour to move if the opportunity arises while we proved we can put our foot down, as with Schneiderlin and Wanyama.

 

A few points:

 

Our Academy will always goes through peaks and troughs - we will never produce a steady, predictable flow of domestic talent that can be sold off to support our business model. It'll be years before we're in a situation where we can sell the equivalents of Shaw, Lallana and Chambers in the same window. 2014 was the exception, not the rule.

 

We were further lucky in 2014 because most of our transfers were successful. In reality, misses are as common as hits. This isn't a criticism of Uncle Les; it's inherent in all transfers and affects all clubs. Because we do not spend beyond what we receive from transfers, it leaves little margin for error. The more players we sell and have to replace at any one time, the greater the likelihood of buying a dud. The good news is that this year we've tried to slow things down, as symbolised by our stance over VVD though the point is always relative (Remember that despite the sales in 2014 we still had a core of established players to fall back on: Schneiderlin, Wanyama, Clyne, Fonte, Davis. Arguably the same cannot be said about this season, even without any departures).

 

We put further pressures on ourselves in that we largely buy players who we think will appreciate in value and can fund future transfers. That biases us towards to certain types of players who typically have great potential but are unproven and carry greater risk. It is sometimes forgotten that games also have to be won in the here and now and that sometimes buying the odd proven player or two is necessary to take some, though not all of the risk out what is a remarkably unpredictable business.

 

I always said that the real test of our business model wouldn't be in 2014 or 2015 but future years after we had gone through several cycles of sales and replacements. It doesn't take many misses to fall out of sync and see a gradual dilution in quality.

Edited 5 August, 2017 by shurlock

[Saintsteve7]

Was this written by a 12 year old? So many flaws in all the points and shows a lack of knowledge of what was going on.

[shurlock]

Said literally nobody

 

[Toadhall Saint]

I think the precedent point is overblown. Good players will always clamour to move if the opportunity arises while we proved we can put our foot down, as with Schneiderlin and Wanyama.

 

A few points:

 

Our Academy will always goes through peaks and troughs - we will never produce a steady, predictable flow of domestic talent that can be sold off to support our business model. It'll be years before we're in a situation where we can sell the equivalents of Shaw, Lallana and Chambers in the same window. 2014 was the exception, not the rule.

 

We were further lucky in 2014 because most of our transfers were successful. In reality, misses are as common as hits. This isn't a criticism of Uncle Les; it's inherent in all transfers and affects all clubs. Because we do not spend beyond what we receive from transfers, it leaves little margin for error. The more players we sell and have to replace at any one time, the greater the likelihood of buying a dud. The good news is that this year we've tried to slow things down, as symbolised by our stance over VVD though the point is always relative (Remember that despite the sales in 2014 we still had a core of established players to fall back on: Schneiderlin, Wanyama, Clyne, Fonte, Davis. Arguably the same cannot be said about this season, even without any departures).

 

We put further pressures on ourselves in that we largely buy players who we think will appreciate in value and can fund future transfers. That biases us towards to certain types of players who typically have great potential but are unproven and carry greater risk. It is sometimes forgotten that games also have to be won in the here and now and that sometimes buying the odd proven player or two is necessary to take some, though not of the risk our of a remarkably unpredictable business.

 

I always said that the real test of our business model wouldn't be in 2014 or 2015 but future years after we had gone through several cycles of sales and replacements. It doesn't take many misses to fall out of sync and see a gradual dilution in quality.

 

You'll get shot on here for a reasoned post like that. Good post imho

[pluto]

The Koeman stuff is wrong, yes we could have matched his big Everton wages. But the most important factor on him leaving was that he thought (and hes probably right) that he couldnt take the club any higher. He had broken records and with more players wanting to leave, he didnt want to damage his managerial CV. His Everton CV now wont look good unless they win something as hes unlikely to better Moyes league finishes.

 

Players going is one thing, its the replacements that clearly must be 'like for like' and i dont think over the last couple of seasons thats happened.

[Whitey Grandad]

So we had a bad season last year?

 

I blame Puel

[hutch]

Who?

[Saint_clark]

However, ever since the historic sixth place finish that was secured in May 2016, things have only gone downhill.

 

Shock horror, maintaining or improving on our highest ever Premier League finish proved to be incredibly difficult.

I would have been in disbelief of the reality around me if we'd managed to improve our league position yet again.

As for this:

and new manager Mauricio Pellegrino's tenure has not begun ideally.

 

I can't be the only person who thinks his tenure hasn't even begun? Pre-season means nothing, league form is what it's all about.

Edited 5 August, 2017 by Saint_clark

[OttawaSaint]

I thought all we needed to do was to replace Puel, according to the forum intellectuals.

 

Yep. Heisenberg and has band of whining trolls stated this. All down to Puel, rotation and boring tactics. 4-3 defeats are acceptable as long as it's exciting. MoPe will get the exciting football we need.

[diggers]

Reading thay the conclusion I came up with was that we just can't win. Big sales every summer, wrong, hold onto all players in summer, wrong!

[Heisenberg]

Shock horror, maintaining or improving on our highest ever Premier League finish proved to be incredibly difficult.

I would have been in disbelief of the reality around me if we'd managed to improve our league position yet again.

As for this:

 

 

Equally you wouldn't expect us to drop 17 points, 22 goals and fail to be any of the top 6 in the league all season.

 

A marginal drop yes, we dropped right off in terms of performances, points and goals.

[Saint_clark]

Equally you wouldn't expect us to drop 17 points, 22 goals and fail to be any of the top 6 in the league all season.

 

A marginal drop yes, we dropped right off in terms of performances, points and goals.

 

Last season was a disappointment in general for me as well, but i'm not panicking thinking there's some big slide on the way. We've been progressing non-stop for 7 years, we were bound to have a setback at some point - it's how we respond that's important. And to be fair we have responded pretty well in my book, replacing the manager with a more attack minded one and putting our foot down with player sales at last.

[Nolan]

Transfers, near misses and a reluctance to splash out: Explaining Southampton's current predicament

 

http://www.bing.com/news/apiclick.aspx?ref=BDIGeneric&aid=C98EA5B0842DBB9405BBF071E1DA7651530FFE51&tid=43AB3080B0E8479FB4DF424E7EA7606D&url=https%3a%2f%2fwww.vavel.com%2fen%2ffootball%2fpremier-league%2fsouthampton%2f813889-dd.html&c=1149613565684242194&mkt=en-gb

An article pretending there is a predicament that doesn't exist.

 

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk

[ALWAYS_SFC]

Yet more drivel but why does anyone care what they say apart from the mega troll Heisenbore

[buctootim]

Kit Shepard is no more authorative than any poster here. He's just a saints fan writing only about saints on internet sports site.

[Maggie May]

It's an opinion piece - not an article. And don't trust anything you read that nicks Getty images without paying.

[Suhari]

What predicament are we in again?

 

This.

 

Are we mired in the relegation places with games running out?

[aintforever]

I'm pretty sure Koeman's main motivation for leaving was so he could sign players like Rooney and Schneiderlin, not wages. So in that respect the whole article is pointless.

[Forester]

I have just seen us beat Seville, and we have finished in the top eight for four consecutive seasons, qualified for Europe twice and enjoyed a cup final. Feeling pretty relaxed personally. Shambkes, what shambles? Feels like an article written by someone approaching puberty....

[Charlie Wayman]

Transfers, near misses and a reluctance to splash out: Explaining Southampton's current predicament

 

http://www.bing.com/news/apiclick.aspx?ref=BDIGeneric&aid=C98EA5B0842DBB9405BBF071E1DA7651530FFE51&tid=43AB3080B0E8479FB4DF424E7EA7606D&url=https%3a%2f%2fwww.vavel.com%2fen%2ffootball%2fpremier-league%2fsouthampton%2f813889-dd.html&c=1149613565684242194&mkt=en-gb

 

Nothing in there that we do not know already. Wonderful how valuable hindsight can be!

[SaintTex]

What predicament are we in again?

exactly.

 

woe is us. 4 straight Top 8 finishes. I am trying to figure out what exactly Southampton is doing wrong.

[Shroppie]

Was this written by a 12 year old? So many flaws in all the points and shows a lack of knowledge of what was going on.

That was my reaction. I can only describe it as ridiculous, inaccurate garbage. Probably based on snippets from the gutter press and well-known negative trolls. Shows a complete lack of any intelligence or understanding.

 

Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk

[CB Fry]

That was my reaction. I can only describe it as ridiculous, inaccurate garbage. Probably based on snippets from the gutter press and well-known negative trolls. Shows a complete lack of any intelligence or understanding.

 

Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk

It read like a dinlow special from this forum. Explains why the dins lapped it up.

[a1ex2001]

About as one sided as a fight betteeen me and Lennox Lewis!

[Unbelievable Jeff]

I think the precedent point is overblown. Good players will always clamour to move if the opportunity arises while we proved we can put our foot down, as with Schneiderlin and Wanyama.

 

A few points:

 

Our Academy will always goes through peaks and troughs - we will never produce a steady, predictable flow of domestic talent that can be sold off to support our business model. It'll be years before we're in a situation where we can sell the equivalents of Shaw, Lallana and Chambers in the same window. 2014 was the exception, not the rule.

 

We were further lucky in 2014 because most of our transfers were successful. In reality, misses are as common as hits. This isn't a criticism of Uncle Les; it's inherent in all transfers and affects all clubs. Because we do not spend beyond what we receive from transfers, it leaves little margin for error. The more players we sell and have to replace at any one time, the greater the likelihood of buying a dud. The good news is that this year we've tried to slow things down, as symbolised by our stance over VVD though the point is always relative (Remember that despite the sales in 2014 we still had a core of established players to fall back on: Schneiderlin, Wanyama, Clyne, Fonte, Davis. Arguably the same cannot be said about this season, even without any departures).

 

We put further pressures on ourselves in that we largely buy players who we think will appreciate in value and can fund future transfers. That biases us towards to certain types of players who typically have great potential but are unproven and carry greater risk. It is sometimes forgotten that games also have to be won in the here and now and that sometimes buying the odd proven player or two is necessary to take some, though not all of the risk out what is a remarkably unpredictable business.

 

I always said that the real test of our business model wouldn't be in 2014 or 2015 but future years after we had gone through several cycles of sales and replacements. It doesn't take many misses to fall out of sync and see a gradual dilution in quality.

 

100% this. Good post.

[Fan The Flames]

Just buy someone, anyone - that phrase sums it up for me. Summer used to be about going on holiday and watching/playing cricket and the only thing you did football wise was pop out your league ladders and copy out the fixture list from the paper. Now it's all about friendlies in Asia and summer signings, people are demanding excitement all year round. They want prestige games against West Brom in HK, despite the fact it might not be good pre season preparation and they need signings, anyone. They don't care if a player is good enough or wanted they just want a signing. Of course if the preseason game is **** or the signing is classed as average, the high is short lived and 'we're doomed' cries get louder. More, more, more, me, me, me.

[Shroppie]

Just buy someone, anyone - that phrase sums it up for me. Summer used to be about going on holiday and watching/playing cricket and the only thing you did football wise was pop out your league ladders and copy out the fixture list from the paper. Now it's all about friendlies in Asia and summer signings, people are demanding excitement all year round. They want prestige games against West Brom in HK, despite the fact it might not be good pre season preparation and they need signings, anyone. They don't care if a player is good enough or wanted they just want a signing. Of course if the preseason game is **** or the signing is classed as average, the high is short lived and 'we're doomed' cries get louder. More, more, more, me, me, me.

This. Good post.

 

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[doddisalegend]

Just buy someone, anyone - that phrase sums it up for me. Summer used to be about going on holiday and watching/playing cricket and the only thing you did football wise was pop out your league ladders and copy out the fixture list from the paper. Now it's all about friendlies in Asia and summer signings, people are demanding excitement all year round. They want prestige games against West Brom in HK, despite the fact it might not be good pre season preparation and they need signings, anyone. They don't care if a player is good enough or wanted they just want a signing. Of course if the preseason game is **** or the signing is classed as average, the high is short lived and 'we're doomed' cries get louder. More, more, more, me, me, me.

 

I'm sure there is an element of that but at the same time plenty of saints fans can see there were weaknesses in the squad, last season, that we hoped would be addressed before the new season started. Not many fans are calling for new signings at any cost in any position.

[Fan The Flames]

I'm sure there is an element of that but at the same time plenty of saints fans can see there were weaknesses in the squad, last season, that we hoped would be addressed before the new season started. Not many fans are calling for new signings at any cost in any position.

 

The measured approach is fine. But there are loads of over demanding football fans nowadays.

[shurlock]

Just buy someone, anyone - that phrase sums it up for me. Summer used to be about going on holiday and watching/playing cricket and the only thing you did football wise was pop out your league ladders and copy out the fixture list from the paper. Now it's all about friendlies in Asia and summer signings, people are demanding excitement all year round. They want prestige games against West Brom in HK, despite the fact it might not be good pre season preparation and they need signings, anyone. They don't care if a player is good enough or wanted they just want a signing. Of course if the preseason game is **** or the signing is classed as average, the high is short lived and 'we're doomed' cries get louder. More, more, more, me, me, me.

 

I'm sure there's an audience for your cod sociology and things-arent-what-they-used-to-be platitudes just as there's an audience for your conspiratorial, quasi-racist ramblings in The Lounge.

 

But do explain why the club is on the verge of signing the type of player (less than a week before the start of the season) that almost the entire fanbase has been calling for - perhaps that fanbase has simply identified a legitimate area of need and weakness? Perhaps it isn't so fickle or irrational pal.

[Batman]

The measured approach is fine. But there are loads of over demanding football fans nowadays.

 

what saints fans have been over-demanding this summer?

all the vast majority appear to want is a DM/CM and probably a CB. Bother of starting quality.

 

apart from the odd post, that is clearly what the vast majority want.

[Shroppie]

what saints fans have been over-demanding this summer?

all the vast majority appear to want is a DM/CM and probably a CB. Bother of starting quality.

 

apart from the odd post, that is clearly what the vast majority want.

A significant number of posters spend their time screaming for marquee signings.

 

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[Batman]

A significant number of posters spend their time screaming for marquee signings.

 

Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk

 

like what and who?

[SaintSteve]

Just buy someone, anyone - that phrase sums it up for me. Summer used to be about going on holiday and watching/playing cricket and the only thing you did football wise was pop out your league ladders and copy out the fixture list from the paper. Now it's all about friendlies in Asia and summer signings, people are demanding excitement all year round. They want prestige games against West Brom in HK, despite the fact it might not be good pre season preparation and they need signings, anyone. They don't care if a player is good enough or wanted they just want a signing. Of course if the preseason game is **** or the signing is classed as average, the high is short lived and 'we're doomed' cries get louder. More, more, more, me, me, me.

 

Not sure what this drivel has to do with the original post..the article simply puts an alternate approach that could have been taken..high risk but with all the players mentioned we could/should have been in the Champions League and perhaps the rewards would have outweighed the expenditure.

[Secret Site Agent]

Just buy someone, anyone - that phrase sums it up for me. Summer used to be about going on holiday and watching/playing cricket and the only thing you did football wise was pop out your league ladders and copy out the fixture list from the paper. Now it's all about friendlies in Asia and summer signings, people are demanding excitement all year round. They want prestige games against West Brom in HK, despite the fact it might not be good pre season preparation and they need signings, anyone. They don't care if a player is good enough or wanted they just want a signing. Of course if the preseason game is **** or the signing is classed as average, the high is short lived and 'we're doomed' cries get louder. More, more, more, me, me, me.

 

Couldn't agree more.

[Heisenberg]

like what and who?

 

Like none. Or they would be quoting and gloating

 

Like you say the request has been for reasonable investment and for obvious squad gaps to be filled.

 

The club should offload some of the fringe players if squad is too bloated.

 

Quality not quantity is the request