10 years of the Euro

[bungle]

Hurrah! etc.

 

But will we ever join? In my book, although we should, having a policy of joining the single currency would quite possibly be political suicide for any of the major parties at the moment, and I can't even see the debate starting up again within the next 5 years.

 

Is the biggest question: Will anyone be able to convince the British public that the Euro is good?

[swannymere]

Most of the people who object, object on the grounds of tradition - well in that case why aren't we still using the ****ing Groat? The other reason is National Identity - well we are ****ed if our National Identity is reliant solely on the Pound you Daily Mail reading muppets.

[Thedelldays]

Most of the people who object, object on the grounds of tradition - well in that case why aren't we still using the ****ing Groat? The other reason is National Identity - well we are ****ed if our National Identity is reliant solely on the Pound you Daily Mail reading muppets.

then you must be a daily mail reader if that is what you think is the reason why people dont want it...

[Block 18]

Stuff yer Euro, first step towards a United States of Europe IMO

[bungle]

then you must be a daily mail reader if that is what you think is the reason why people dont want it...

 

http://www.saintsweb.co.uk/forum/showpost.php?p=132833&postcount=37

[Thedelldays]

http://www.saintsweb.co.uk/forum/showpost.php?p=132833&postcount=37

 

 

oh..that is it..the sole reason...

 

lol

[JohnnyFartPants]

I am in favour of keeping Sterling. It is partly tradition and it is partly because I think it enables us to place ourselves in the middle of the U.S Dollar and the Euro, brokering deals in whichever direction currently suits us.

[bungle]

oh..that is it..the sole reason...

 

lol

 

I think, with all due respect, you have been pwn3d on this occasion.

[Thedelldays]

I think, with all due respect, you have been pwn3d on this occasion.

lol

 

err no

 

that is just one reason

 

I will offer my sorrow for not going into a full on politcal analysis for not goin into the euro..

Edited 13 January, 2009 by Thedelldays

[hypochondriac]

I think, with all due respect, you have been pwn3d on this occasion.

 

Not really. Thedelldays highlighted that as one reason but he didn't say it was the ONLY reason. Besides he is correct so it doesn't matter

[bungle]

Not really. Thedelldays highlighted that as one reason but he didn't say it was the ONLY reason. Besides he is correct so it doesn't matter

 

No-one said it was the only reason. Also it is the most mindbendingly stupid reason of all time.

[hypochondriac]

No-one said it was the only reason. Also it is the most mindbendingly stupid reason of all time.

 

Then how exactly is he pwned? Unless I read it wrong? What about the other more valid reasons. I don't want to get into a debate. Suffice to say if you want england to ditch the pound you don't have england's best interests at heart

[Thedelldays]

No-one said it was the only reason. Also it is the most mindbendingly stupid reason of all time.

then how an i Pwn3d..?

[JohnnyFartPants]

then how an i Pwn3d..?

 

The navy own you.

[saintwarwick]

Stuff yer Euro, first step towards a United States of Europe IMO

 

Agreed.

[bridge too far]

One of the arguments against the Euro is the perceived loss of control over any member country's economic situation.

 

Interestingly, today, the Germans have decided, quite independently of any other member state, to introduce a 50bn euro stimulus package.

 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/7825513.stm

 

I'd be delighted if we adopted the euro. Tradition is a non-argument. There are very many traditions in this country that we still keep alive that make us British. There are many more that whose loss haven't made us less British.

 

Anyway, think of the money we'd save by not having to pay commission etc every time we go to Europe.

[JohnnyFartPants]

One of the arguments against the Euro is the perceived loss of control over any member country's economic situation.

 

Interestingly, today, the Germans have decided, quite independently of any other member state, to introduce a 50bn euro stimulus package.

 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/7825513.stm

 

I'd be delighted if we adopted the euro. Tradition is a non-argument. There are very many traditions in this country that we still keep alive that make us British. There are many more that whose loss haven't made us less British.

 

Anyway, think of the money we'd save by not having to pay commission etc every time we go to Europe.

 

Nazi.

[Thedelldays]

One of the arguments against the Euro is the perceived loss of control over any member country's economic situation.

 

Interestingly, today, the Germans have decided, quite independently of any other member state, to introduce a 50bn euro stimulus package.

 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/7825513.stm

 

I'd be delighted if we adopted the euro. Tradition is a non-argument. There are very many traditions in this country that we still keep alive that make us British. There are many more that whose loss haven't made us less British.

 

Anyway, think of the money we'd save by not having to pay commission etc every time we go to Europe.

 

 

brilliant...as that costs a fortune..

[OLYMPIC]

I'm for keeping sterling as on average as a currency it out performs the euro,also listened to some economist on the telly going on about how alot of people don't see the euro making it's 20th birthday.One of the reasons for this was the poor performance of the economies of recent countries that have been allowed to join.

[swannymere]

then you must be a daily mail reader if that is what you think is the reason why people dont want it...

 

oh..that is it..the sole reason...

 

lol

 

Lolage city:rolleyes:

[badgerx16]

Considering 3 factors, the EURO would be a good thing;

 

First, we do more trade with the EU than outside it, so switching would save on working with, and converting between, two differing currencies.

Second, as the pound has fallen fairly consistently against the euro, the sooner we join the better, as we are losing value all the time.

 

Third, it would silence all the 'little Englanders' who think we still amount to anything significant on the world stage. We have far more in common with Europe than any other international grouping, ( other than our historic 'cultural' links with the Commonwealth ), but seem obsessed with the isolationists 3000 miles away on the other side of 'the pond'. As we have seen recently, our economy is tied into a morass of global influences that we can have very little independent influence upon. The euro is now the world's second currency, after the $US, and we can only gain financial stability from unifying with our continental partners.

[Ponty]

Considering 3 factors, the EURO would be a good thing;

 

First, we do more trade with the EU than outside it, so switching would save on working with, and converting between, two differing currencies.

Second, as the pound has fallen fairly consistently against the euro, the sooner we join the better, as we are losing value all the time.

 

Third, it would silence all the 'little Englanders' who think we still amount to anything significant on the world stage. We have far more in common with Europe than any other international grouping, ( other than our historic 'cultural' links with the Commonwealth ), but seem obsessed with the isolationists 3000 miles away on the other side of 'the pond'. As we have seen recently, our economy is tied into a morass of global influences that we can have very little independent influence upon. The euro is now the world's second currency, after the $US, and we can only gain financial stability from unifying with our continental partners.

First. We've managed to trade with Europe for centuries without exploding in a haze of exchange rates.

 

Second. The pound has murdered the Euro in exchange terms for the vast majority of the time, only recently has it started to falter but anything could happen in the future.

 

Third. No one wants the Dollar either, as far as I can make out.

[TopGun]

First. We've managed to trade with Europe for centuries without exploding in a haze of exchange rates.

 

Second. The pound has murdered the Euro in exchange terms for the vast majority of the time, only recently has it started to falter but anything could happen in the future.

 

Third. No one wants the Dollar either, as far as I can make out.

 

The problem with that argument is two-fold.

 

The € has taken 10 years to be implemented and to establish itself as a trading currency for both financial trust and technology based trading reasons but it is pretty much there now.

 

That same period also coincided with an extraordinary good run for the British economy largely based on a lot of now dispelled myths about the strength of the UK banking system.

 

To expect the £ to continue to trade blows equally with the $, €, Yen and possibly the Yuan is like expecting Saints to continue to cut it with higher end Premiership teams. It's fantasy.

 

We can keep the £ as little islanders but, if we do, we will lose out elsewhere longer term.

[hypochondriac]

The problem with that argument is two-fold.

 

The € has taken 10 years to be implemented and to establish itself as a trading currency for both financial trust and technology based trading reasons but it is pretty much there now.

 

That same period also coincided with an extraordinary good run for the British economy largely based on a lot of now dispelled myths about the strength of the UK banking system.

 

To expect the £ to continue to trade blows equally with the $, €, Yen and possibly the Yuan is like expecting Saints to continue to cut it with higher end Premiership teams. It's fantasy.

 

We can keep the £ as little islanders but, if we do, we will lose out elsewhere longer term.

 

TBH you don't know that for sure.

[Mole]

Joining the Euro now would be madness. It'd be as idiotic as selling the nations gold reserves when the price was rock bottom.

[hypochondriac]

Joining the Euro now would be madness. It'd be as idiotic as selling the nations gold reserves when the price was rock bottom.

 

Yep. The main problem of the Euro is the inflexibility. It doesn't take into account the diversity of each country, something which individual currencies do.

[Thedelldays]

why does wanting to keep the pound mean you are a "little englander/islander"

 

does wanting to keep the pound for very legitimate financial/politcal reasons mean you should be looked down on..?

[TopGun]

TBH you don't know that for sure.

 

Quite right, it's just probabilities.

[TopGun]

why does wanting to keep the pound mean you are a "little englander/islander"

 

does wanting to keep the pound for very legitimate financial/politcal reasons mean you should be looked down on..?

 

I don't mean it in a subjective sense TDD, just an economic one. It's like trying to hang on to sailing ships when others have gas turbine powered ships.

[Thedelldays]

I don't mean it in a subjective sense TDD, just an economic one.

 

 

what is little about the sterling..?..a bit of a power house in the world markets for many many years...a tried and trusted bit of money...

[TopGun]

what is little about the sterling..?..a bit of a power house in the world markets for many many years...a tried and trusted bit of money...

 

Yes, but ultimately any currency is based on underlying size and strength of an economy. Now the € is accepted and past its fledgling stage it is going to be more trusted as the Eurozone pumps out far more GDP than the UK.

[Thedelldays]

Yes, but ultimately any currency is based on underlying size and strength of an economy. Now the € is accepted and past its fledgling stage it is going to be more trusted as the Eurozone pumps out far more GDP than the UK.

 

 

you think..there are just as many credible economists who reckon the euro will be lucky to see out another 10 years....due to the huge diversity within the states that have it....

[Mole]

I don't mean it in a subjective sense TDD, just an economic one. It's like trying to hang on to sailing ships when others have gas turbine powered ships.

 

What complete nonsense. The reason the pound is currently weak is because the money markets have judged Gordon Browns management of the UK economy to be terrible.

[TopGun]

you think..there are just as many credible economists who reckon the euro will be lucky to see out another 10 years....due to the huge diversity within the states that have it....

 

It's a possibility that Europe will fragment drastically at some stage but it's unlikely we will see it. I accept the diversity of culture argument but that's not credible when we are discussing economics. If anything, the € ensures that the sum of Eurozone output is bigger than individual parts.

 

Which obviously could lead to political enlargement with a US of Europe that could then cause problems culturally down the line but we are not going to be around that long.

[hypochondriac]

What complete nonsense. The reason the pound is currently weak is because the money markets have judged Gordon Browns management of the UK economy to be terrible.

 

Regardless of the cause, why should we adopt the euro because sterling just happens to be weak compared to the euro? Its not like it's been a long term thing. I don't think the euro will offer stability either. Ask a few of my Italian relatives what the euro has done to their country and they can tell you some interesting stories! Pretty much hated by the public over there.

[hypochondriac]

It's a possibility that Europe will fragment drastically at some stage but it's unlikely we will see it. I accept the diversity of culture argument but that's not credible when we are discussing economics. If anything, the € ensures that the sum of Eurozone output is bigger than individual parts.

 

Which obviously could lead to political enlargement with a US of Europe that could then cause problems culturally down the line but we are not going to be around that long.

 

Why bother recycling and chop down all the trees. We won't be around long enough to feel the effects.

[Mole]

Regardless of the cause, why should we adopt the euro because sterling just happens to be weak compared to the euro? Its not like it's been a long term thing. I don't think the euro will offer stability either. Ask a few of my Italian relatives what the euro has done to their country and they can tell you some interesting stories! Pretty much hated by the public over there.

 

I'm a bit of a closet radio 4 listener (when driving to and from work) and the opinion of an ITK on there is that the £ in currently undervalued and it will strengthen in the next quarter.

[TopGun]

Why bother recycling and chop down all the trees. We won't be around long enough to feel the effects.

 

Well, yes.

 

I suppose what I mean is that in our current timeframe, the € is likely to outpunch the £ so we ourselves will suffer. A future fragmentation of Europe or something similar could obviously alter those facts. I'm just viewing it on the current position.

[TopGun]

I'm a bit of a closet radio 4 listener (when driving to and from work) and the opinion of an ITK on there is that the £ in currently undervalued and it will strengthen in the next quarter.

 

It might do in the same way that Aston Villa are having a good time. But would you expect Aston Villa to seriously challenge Man U, Liverpool and Chelsea [actually Chelsea are a blip cos of Abramovitch] overall apart from blips?

 

Don't get me wrong, the £ could trot along like Everton but will always lose out to the bigger boys in the long term. The dynamics have altered. I'm suggesting that Everton teams up with Liverpool (€) for our term greater benefit.

[Mole]

It might do in the same way that Aston Villa are having a good time. But would you expect Aston Villa to seriously challenge Man U, Liverpool and Chelsea [actually Chelsea are a blip cos of Abramovitch] overall apart from blips?

 

Don't get me wrong, the £ could trot along like Everton but will always lose out to the bigger boys in the long term. The dynamics have altered. I'm suggesting that Everton teams up with Liverpool (€) for our term greater benefit.

 

Nonsense. The GDP of a country per capita is the key factor. The Swiss Franc is a small currency but it's not a weak currency. The pound has traded against the Dollar for donkeys and has been the strong currency until recently. The recent decline is the money markets judging broke Britain after 10 years of a tax and spend Labour government. Nothing more, nothing less. Essentially if you want a strong economy and a strong currency don't vote Labour.

[bridge too far]

Nonsense. The GDP of a country per capita is the key factor. The Swiss Franc is a small currency but it's not a weak currency. The pound has traded against the Dollar for donkeys and has been the strong currency until recently. The recent decline is the money markets judging broke Britain after 10 years of a tax and spend Labour government. Nothing more, nothing less. Essentially if you want a strong economy and a strong currency don't vote Labour.

 

Funny then, that according to this:

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_European_countries_by_GDP_(nominal)_per_capita

 

the UK is significantly stronger than either France or Germany, for example.

 

You might find this easier to read:

 

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/eco_eur_cou_by_gdp_per_cap_gdp_per_cap-european-countries-gdp-per-capita

[badgerx16]

Essentially if you want a strong economy and a strong currency don't vote Labour.

Look up Churchill and the Gold Standard, MacMillan and the 'never had it so good' speech, or 'Black Wednesday' - 16th September 1992. All bl00dy good indications of Conservative fiscal management.

[TopGun]

Nonsense. The GDP of a country per capita is the key factor. The Swiss Franc is a small currency but it's not a weak currency. The pound has traded against the Dollar for donkeys and has been the strong currency until recently. The recent decline is the money markets judging broke Britain after 10 years of a tax and spend Labour government. Nothing more, nothing less. Essentially if you want a strong economy and a strong currency don't vote Labour.

 

It's like trying to debate with Violet Elizabeth Bott. :smt078

[benjii]

The Euro sucks.

 

All the money looks the same.

 

Not for me, no thanks.

[badgerx16]

The recent decline is the money markets judging broke Britain after 10 years of a tax and spend Labour government. Nothing more, nothing less.

Funny, I thought it was more to do with a GLOBAL financial crisis, originating mainly in the US of A, caused largely by extremely questionable lending practices, and leading to multi-national banking organisations losing faith in each other as each successive house of cards collapsed.

In these circumstances, investment runs and hides in what are perceived to be the strongest currencies; historically this has been the $US, purely due to the size of their economy, but now the Euro has reached a position of trust and is tending to usurp the £ in the eyes of the 'players' as it is less dependant on the financial services sector as a proportion of overall GDP.

[Saint George]

Funny then, that according to this:

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_European_countries_by_GDP_(nominal)_per_capita

 

the UK is significantly stronger than either France or Germany, for example.

 

You might find this easier to read:

 

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/eco_eur_cou_by_gdp_per_cap_gdp_per_cap-european-countries-gdp-per-capita

 

Iceland looks to be doing really well on both of those charts....Definitely a good investment area i'd say

[Fuengirola Saint]

Nonsense. The GDP of a country per capita is the key factor. The Swiss Franc is a small currency but it's not a weak currency. The pound has traded against the Dollar for donkeys and has been the strong currency until recently. The recent decline is the money markets judging broke Britain after 10 years of a tax and spend Labour government. Nothing more, nothing less. Essentially if you want a strong economy and a strong currency don't vote Labour.[/QUO

 

Your posts are looking more and more like a Tory election broadcast, Remember the two big recessions and Black Wednesday under that shower of ****e do you?

[Mole]

Your posts are looking more and more like a Tory election broadcast, Remember the two big recessions and Black Wednesday under that shower of ****e do you?

 

I've never voted conservative in my life, i deteste them almost as much as Labour.

[Zurichsaint]

Yep. The main problem of the Euro is the inflexibility. It doesn't take into account the diversity of each country, something which individual currencies do.

 

This is a really frustrating argument. It is right that the Euro interest rate wouldn't be the perfect rate for all the member countries, but as the economies' connections grow, their economic cycles should get in sync with one-another and it should be easier to set a beneficial interest rate.

 

For that matter, do you think that the USD is any more flexible - does the US fed set the best interest rate for New York and Washington, or Michigan and Dakota? The Bank of England controls the pound in the way that best suits London. Stuff the North, South West, Wales or Scotland, that may benefit from different rates.

[badgerx16]

I've never voted conservative in my life,.

At last, something I can agree with