Poor strikers

[Nordic Saint]

Obviously, selling our 2 top goal scorers, Mane and Pelle, in the same summer wasn't a wise move. But this video sums up just how poor our current strikers are at converting goalscoring chances. My solution would be to sell Long ( I know this won't be popular with some posters who regards him as something of a folk hero because he runs about a lot) and replace him with a better goal scorer.

 

 

www.umaxit.com/index.php/videos/by-the-numbers-where-did-southampton-go-wrong-last-season

[benjii]

There are ways to pick holes in the analysis but I don't think anyone can argue that failing to convert field position and possession into goals was our main problem.

 

I wouldn't just blame "strikers" though - most of the midfielders are culpable too.

[striker]

Austin's injury had a lot to do with this, we had no depth. Until Gabbi came we had no one else out there who really could score dependably.

[Chez]

There are ways to pick holes in the analysis but I don't think anyone can argue that failing to convert field position and possession into goals was our main problem.

 

I wouldn't just blame "strikers" though - most of the midfielders are culpable too.

 

not sure how many of those `chances' were guilt edge though. Lots of half chances and shots, but how many `seriously, he should have scored that chance'?

 

I don't blame the midfield for that. I'd put our problems down to a lack of quality throughout.

 

Defensively we were only good enough when our midfield provided the right kind of protection. They did this, but it prevented us from getting bodies into the box to help score goals. When we pushed men forward, we left big gaps. Getting the balance between attack and defence is critical, but without the quality of player in the middle it is very very difficult to do both. I don't think we had that quality of player and as a result they couldn't do both tasks.

 

A lack of quality also led to the ball being given away a lot, lots of energy used trying to get it back and not enough energy used making runs and stretching teams the other way. We also didn't have individuals that could unlock doors fully. Lots of decent passing, but very little Cryuff turn before finding an unmarked man arriving late into the box.

 

We also didn't have individual that could get us out of jail defensively when hit on the break. The number of times we used to be caught out from our own corners but Morgan would race back and extinguish an attack. Without him we got hurt on the break a lot. What does that matter in this conversation, well, conceding goals and going behind just makes scoring even harder as teams sit back and close off the space leaving us with half chances.

 

A lack of quality could be seen by the number of poor first touches, passes not perfectly placed or weighted, headers not won...the list goes on. Lots and lots of small things that add up to us not dominating and not creating guilt edge chances - just shooting opportunities.

 

Maybe I have over complicated things...but I have seen a gradual erosion of quality in recent years that was covered up by the brilliance of Mane. Take that out and we became largely average, not terrible, not without good points, but overall average. The solution - better players!

[Nordic Saint]

not sure how many of those `chances' were guilt edge though. Lots of half chances and shots, but how many `seriously, he should have scored that chance'?

 

I don't blame the midfield for that. I'd put our problems down to a lack of quality throughout.

 

Defensively we were only good enough when our midfield provided the right kind of protection. They did this, but it prevented us from getting bodies into the box to help score goals. When we pushed men forward, we left big gaps. Getting the balance between attack and defence is critical, but without the quality of player in the middle it is very very difficult to do both. I don't think we had that quality of player and as a result they couldn't do both tasks.

 

A lack of quality also led to the ball being given away a lot, lots of energy used trying to get it back and not enough energy used making runs and stretching teams the other way. We also didn't have individuals that could unlock doors fully. Lots of decent passing, but very little Cryuff turn before finding an unmarked man arriving late into the box.

 

We also didn't have individual that could get us out of jail defensively when hit on the break. The number of times we used to be caught out from our own corners but Morgan would race back and extinguish an attack. Without him we got hurt on the break a lot. What does that matter in this conversation, well, conceding goals and going behind just makes scoring even harder as teams sit back and close off the space leaving us with half chances.

 

A lack of quality could be seen by the number of poor first touches, passes not perfectly placed or weighted, headers not won...the list goes on. Lots and lots of small things that add up to us not dominating and not creating guilt edge chances - just shooting opportunities.

 

Maybe I have over complicated things...but I have seen a gradual erosion of quality in recent years that was covered up by the brilliance of Mane. Take that out and we became largely average, not terrible, not without good points, but overall average. The solution - better players!

 

The days when we sold players and replaced them with better ones ended when our head of recruitment, Paul Black Box Mitchell went to Spurs. We need his 'Black Box' brain back. He is a very talented man and would be the ideal replacement for Old Les, who reaches retirement age this year. I sometimes wonder if Les is just a cuckoo in the nest who has got rid of nearly all of our talented administrators, managers, coaches, scouts, players and staff and whether it would be a happier more stable ship with somebody new at the helm.

[SKD]

The days when we sold players and replaced them with better ones ended when our head of recruitment, Paul Black Box Mitchell went to Spurs. We need his 'Black Box' brain back. He is a very talented man and would be the ideal replacement for Old Les, who reaches retirement age this year. I sometimes wonder if Les is just a cuckoo in the nest who has got rid of nearly all of our talented administrators, managers, coaches, scouts, players and staff and whether it would be a happier more stable ship with somebody new at the helm.

 

100% Agree. If/When Les retires (I can't see that anytime soon though!) I'd get Mitchell back and combine Les and Ross Wilson's role into 1.

[benjii]

not sure how many of those `chances' were guilt edge though. Lots of half chances and shots, but how many `seriously, he should have scored that chance'?

 

I don't blame the midfield for that. I'd put our problems down to a lack of quality throughout.

 

Defensively we were only good enough when our midfield provided the right kind of protection. They did this, but it prevented us from getting bodies into the box to help score goals. When we pushed men forward, we left big gaps. Getting the balance between attack and defence is critical, but without the quality of player in the middle it is very very difficult to do both. I don't think we had that quality of player and as a result they couldn't do both tasks.

 

A lack of quality also led to the ball being given away a lot, lots of energy used trying to get it back and not enough energy used making runs and stretching teams the other way. We also didn't have individuals that could unlock doors fully. Lots of decent passing, but very little Cryuff turn before finding an unmarked man arriving late into the box.

 

We also didn't have individual that could get us out of jail defensively when hit on the break. The number of times we used to be caught out from our own corners but Morgan would race back and extinguish an attack. Without him we got hurt on the break a lot. What does that matter in this conversation, well, conceding goals and going behind just makes scoring even harder as teams sit back and close off the space leaving us with half chances.

 

A lack of quality could be seen by the number of poor first touches, passes not perfectly placed or weighted, headers not won...the list goes on. Lots and lots of small things that add up to us not dominating and not creating guilt edge chances - just shooting opportunities.

 

Maybe I have over complicated things...but I have seen a gradual erosion of quality in recent years that was covered up by the brilliance of Mane. Take that out and we became largely average, not terrible, not without good points, but overall average. The solution - better players!

 

Yeah, I agree with most of that.

[baggytrousers]

The days when we sold players and replaced them with better ones ended when our head of recruitment, Paul Black Box Mitchell went to Spurs. We need his 'Black Box' brain back. He is a very talented man and would be the ideal replacement for Old Les, who reaches retirement age this year. I sometimes wonder if Les is just a cuckoo in the nest who has got rid of nearly all of our talented administrators, managers, coaches, scouts, players and staff and whether it would be a happier more stable ship with somebody new at the helm.

 

 

This is a complete myth. Are you really saying that VVD, Cedric, Romeu and Gabbiadini are all bad signings ?

 

What has changed in our recruitment strategy is that we are getting our players younger so they need more time to come to fruition.

 

As I recall many people on here were slagging off Mane during his first season with us before he got acclimatised to the Premier League. He obviously did come good but he was older and more experienced than Cedric, Redmond, Hojbjerg and Bouffal so the time taken to do this would be less.

 

I think there is also a tendency to romanticise those players we lost. Mane in my opinion was our biggest loss of all but even he was inconsistent. As for Pelle he used to drive me mad at times with his ill-judged flicks and poor touch but was OK in the eyes of a lot of fans because he had the lucky knack of coming up with goals at important times. Let's not forget that at the time we sold him Shane Long had replaced him as our first-choice centre forward and in our present squad the same Shlong is now very much third choice.

 

I would agree that we haven't yet adequately replaced Mane (although I do believe Bouffal has got it in his locker to be just as good given time) but as for the rest :

 

VVD is better than Toby

Cedric is now about the same as Clyne

Romeu is about the same as Wanyama (not quite as good defensively but a much better passer)

Gabbiadini looks a far better player than Pelle from what I've seen so far.

 

So, basically it's our inability to instantly replace Mane that has hurt us (coupled with an uninspiring coach last year).

 

However, what we have undoubtedly done is increased the depth of the squad (we have two decent options in every position now) and done it with mostly younger players who have plenty of potential upside.

 

Personally, I don't think that's too shabby on the recruitment side myself but understand that we live in a world that demands instant gratification and that a more patient view where we buy talented youngsters and help them realise their potential won't suit some fans.

 

As for these madcap theories about Les Reed somehow being responsible for everything that doesn't instantly come good but not having any hand whatsoever in any of our positives, I'm going to treat them with the disdain they deserve.

[eurosaint]

It really doesn't take a genius or a long-winded statistical analysis to explain why we didn't score enough goals last season !

We made shed loads of chances but just didn't take them ! This was down to a combination of bad luck and bad finishing !

In fairness, Austin only played half a season, as did Gabbiadini but even so we should (and could) have scored more !

I am hoping that Pellegrino instills a bit more confidence and positivity into our strikers because I don't feel that we are so very far away at all !

Less rotation is inevitable (no Europa league) so, given a good run in the side, I feel sure that our strikers will score more than last time and maybe, just maybe, we'll get a better return from the midfield area !

There is zero chance of buying an established, top class striker at £50 mil plus so we need to get the best out of what we have and IMHO Austin, Gabbi, Shane and Gallagher have the ability, they just need the platform to express themselves !

The new manager is pretty much the key to this, so I wish him well and hope that all comes good !

[mrfahaji]

Yeah, I agree with most of that.

 

Same, except the 'guilt' instead of 'gilt' bit.

[mrfahaji]

It really doesn't take a genius or a long-winded statistical analysis to explain why we didn't score enough goals last season !

We made shed loads of chances but just didn't take them ! This was down to a combination of bad luck and bad finishing !

In fairness, Austin only played half a season, as did Gabbiadini but even so we should (and could) have scored more !

I am hoping that Pellegrino instills a bit more confidence and positivity into our strikers because I don't feel that we are so very far away at all !

Less rotation is inevitable (no Europa league) so, given a good run in the side, I feel sure that our strikers will score more than last time and maybe, just maybe, we'll get a better return from the midfield area !

There is zero chance of buying an established, top class striker at £50 mil plus so we need to get the best out of what we have and IMHO Austin, Gabbi, Shane and Gallagher have the ability, they just need the platform to express themselves !

The new manager is pretty much the key to this, so I wish him well and hope that all comes good !

 

You could give some thoughtful analysis like Chez has above, or you could just lump it into one generic sentence !

I don't know which one to believe !

Perhaps the answer lies in whoever can exclaim their points the most !

[Dangermouth]

not sure how many of those `chances' were guilt edge though. Lots of half chances and shots, but how many `seriously, he should have scored that chance'?

 

I don't blame the midfield for that. I'd put our problems down to a lack of quality throughout.

 

Defensively we were only good enough when our midfield provided the right kind of protection. They did this, but it prevented us from getting bodies into the box to help score goals. When we pushed men forward, we left big gaps. Getting the balance between attack and defence is critical, but without the quality of player in the middle it is very very difficult to do both. I don't think we had that quality of player and as a result they couldn't do both tasks.

 

A lack of quality also led to the ball being given away a lot, lots of energy used trying to get it back and not enough energy used making runs and stretching teams the other way. We also didn't have individuals that could unlock doors fully. Lots of decent passing, but very little Cryuff turn before finding an unmarked man arriving late into the box.

 

We also didn't have individual that could get us out of jail defensively when hit on the break. The number of times we used to be caught out from our own corners but Morgan would race back and extinguish an attack. Without him we got hurt on the break a lot. What does that matter in this conversation, well, conceding goals and going behind just makes scoring even harder as teams sit back and close off the space leaving us with half chances.

 

A lack of quality could be seen by the number of poor first touches, passes not perfectly placed or weighted, headers not won...the list goes on. Lots and lots of small things that add up to us not dominating and not creating guilt edge chances - just shooting opportunities.

 

Maybe I have over complicated things...but I have seen a gradual erosion of quality in recent years that was covered up by the brilliance of Mane. Take that out and we became largely average, not terrible, not without good points, but overall average. The solution - better players!

 

Yep. We have a number of, at best, journeymen. Much as I like him Davis is one. He works well at what he does but is somewhat limited and requires better players around him. It's why I like Sims: I think he's an intelligent and skilful (and knackered, unfortunately) player who can/will grow into a damn good player. The opposite of the one I no longer have time for who I won't mention as it's obvious as he's now in his what, 5th season with us. I do think the change of manager might help as anyone who encourages players to play early, intelligent, forward balls should/must help us as we do have a forward line that could do a lot of damage (Austin in and around the box, Gabbiadini a little behind him). I think that part of the reason that wasn't alluded to was that we were so slow and intransigent in our play that we were always facing a packed, in place defence who were set to keep us out whereas the likes of Chelsea and Arsenal were and are good at getting at teams so they couldn't or wouldn't do this e.g. Hazard running at players and beating them draws a defence out of shape as does the quick passing game of Arsenal (or any top team).

[eelpie]

The days when we sold players and replaced them with better ones ended when our head of recruitment, Paul Black Box Mitchell went to Spurs. We need his 'Black Box' brain back. He is a very talented man and would be the ideal replacement for Old Les, who reaches retirement age this year. I sometimes wonder if Les is just a cuckoo in the nest who has got rid of nearly all of our talented administrators, managers, coaches, scouts, players and staff and whether it would be a happier more stable ship with somebody new at the helm.

 

What's happened to Paul Mitchell? Doesn't he have a problem with Spurs now? Wasn't he put on gardening leave? Perhaps we should try to get him back.

[Window Cleaner]

What's happened to Paul Mitchell? Doesn't he have a problem with Spurs now? Wasn't he put on gardening leave? Perhaps we should try to get him back.

 

Think he was looking to get a managers job. Spurs were making him work out his notice, don't know if they still are, a year on.

[Oldeuboi]

https://www.saintsweb.co.uk/showthread.php?58300-StatsBomb-What-has-happened-to-Southampton#.WXon3NMrLVo

[Dr. Kucho]

Obviously, selling our 2 top goal scorers, Mane and Pelle, in the same summer wasn't a wise move. But this video sums up just how poor our current strikers are at converting goalscoring chances. My solution would be to sell Long ( I know this won't be popular with some posters who regards him as something of a folk hero because he runs about a lot) and replace him with a better goal scorer.

 

 

www.umaxit.com/index.php/videos/by-the-numbers-where-did-southampton-go-wrong-last-season

 

If the club could sell Long and replace him with a better goal scorer I'm sure they would. Problem is you first need a buyer for Long and when you see the amount of what players like Lukaku go for, you know we would have to spend big.

[eurosaint]

You could give some thoughtful analysis like Chez has above, or you could just lump it into one generic sentence !

I don't know which one to believe !

Perhaps the answer lies in whoever can exclaim their points the most !

 

I much prefer it this way, keeps my ageing braincells from festering

[Baird of the land]

We have natural poachers in the likes of Austin/gabbi.

I think both Gallagher and long offer something different to that. I'm happy we've got someone like long in the squad with great stamina and pace who 2 seasons ago was among our top goal scorers. Last season his confidence got shot and we weren't playing in a way that suited his game particularly either.

 

Last season I felt the approach was really stilted. We may have had territory and shots but rarely watching did you think those were gilt edged. Hoping Pellegrino's approach with greater pressure will result in a much better quality of chance being created.

[NorthamSteve]

I think what this video points out was pretty obvious for all to see for much of the season. We were crying out for a decent striker, Gabbi came along and we started to get a few more decent results, for a while.

 

Now we have two decent goalscorers I expect a few more goals this season. - I wonder if the system will enable us to have Gabbi and Austin on the field at the same time.....

[Roo1976]

What's happened to Paul Mitchell? Doesn't he have a problem with Spurs now? Wasn't he put on gardening leave? Perhaps we should try to get him back.

 

Thats what i thought also .