Where is the ambition?

[doddisalegend]

If we'd had a not for sale stance last summer and had kept Mane and Wanyama, that would have shown real ambition. I think they were less keen to leae than van Dijk appears to be now and we wouldn't have needed to spend anything on new players. The Club could have afforded to keep our best players then. IF van Dijk is sold, our squad is going to look a hell of a lot weaker than it did 2 years ago. That is not progreess. It isn't even standing still. It's decline.

 

 

If we had forced Wanyama to stay another season he would have gone to spurs for free this summer. We had been offering him a new contract for ages but he refused to sign a new one so our hands were tied unless letting him go for nothing is consider a sign of ambition?

[Toadhall Saint]

If we had forced Wanyama to stay another season he would have gone to spurs for free this summer. We had been offering him a new contract for ages but he refused to sign a new one so our hands were tied unless letting him go for nothing is consider a sign of ambition?

 

He knows all that. NS that is

[COMEONYOUREDS]

Glad you wrote it. I dread to think of the reaction if I did.

 

We are back in the deepest darkest days of Lowe. And the result will be the same.

 

[Jimbo]

Glad you wrote it. I dread to think of the reaction if I did.

 

We are back in the deepest darkest days of Lowe. And the result will be the same.

 

We really aren't.

[angelman]

If we'd had a not for sale stance last summer and had kept Mane and Wanyama, that would have shown real ambition. I think they were less keen to leae than van Dijk appears to be now and we wouldn't have needed to spend anything on new players. The Club could have afforded to keep our best players then. IF van Dijk is sold, our squad is going to look a hell of a lot weaker than it did 2 years ago. That is not progreess. It isn't even standing still. It's decline.

 

Why bring Wanyama into it?? He was in the last year of his contract and was not going to sign a new one. So as far as I can see it there were 3 options you could take.....

 

1) Were you going to hold a gun to his head and make him stay against his will,

2) Let his contract run out so that he could leave on a free when it expired

3) Knowing that he wasn't going to renew, sell him to recoup as per the generally accepted way of doing things.

 

The club chose the generally accepted way of doing things, which you seem to be whinging about.

[Window Cleaner]

I think this is the general feeling for most fans. How can we expect our best players to commit when the last few years have seen mass exodus. The only way to keep hold of van dijk is to show the intent to push on. Spend decent money on a couple of crucial first team players such as gylfi and van dijk may well be swayed, even if only for another season.

 

Come on les ffs!

 

 

Some need to get their heads around the fact that with no European Competition this season we aren't playing at a level sufficient to attract players like Sigurdsson. Not to mention the fact that we don't have a spare 45 million £ either.

Look at the other non-European sides, are any of them attracting 40 million + players ? I don't think so.

Edited 24 July, 2017 by Window Cleaner

[Micky]

Some need to get their hea

 

More, more, more...!!!

[red&white56]

Confuscious says:-

He who keeps looking backwards can never see where he is going...

 

He's been dead for ages, why hasn't he been replaced with a quality philosopher??

[Lighthouse]

Some need to get their heads around the fact that with no European Competition this season we aren't playing at a level sufficient to attract players like Sigurdsson. Not to mention the fact that we don't have a spare 45 million £ either.

Look at the other non-European sides, are any of them attracting 40 million + players ? I don't think so.

 

Like that's got anything to do with it. Players don't give the tiniest sh*t about the Europa League, it's all about money and the Champions League.

 

Even if we did stump up £45m for a 28 year old (which Saints are blatantly not going to do) he'd only come here if we offered him a huge pay rise, Europa League or otherwise.

[dronskisaint]

Glad you wrote it. I dread to think of the reaction if I did.

 

We are back in the deepest darkest days of Lowe. And the result will be the same.

 

And this is why your opinion would be treated with derision.

[Gingeletiss]

He's been dead for ages, why hasn't he been replaced with a quality philosopher??

 

Melikey ^

[Smirking_Saint]

The squad needs some work, I it find hard to believe anyone would be that happy if we go into next season having bought in one defender for the future.

 

We have a few players who could definitely be upgraded that's not spending money for the sake of it that's improving the team something we should all want.

 

If we really are serious about not selling our best players then this is the ideal summer to get in a couple of quality players to strengthen the side rather than just replacing the usual summer exodus.

 

Having said that just spending big money for the sake of it to show ambition is pointless the money needs to be spent right.

 

This is pretty much where my head is at, and I think it needs to start with putting our foot bown over VVD, itll hurt, but that is the real statement of intent here.

 

Id of said this was likely the season to improve the squad, keeping our better talents and adding to the squad in the form of one or two well placed individuals makes sense. And we clearly have money to spend, if needed. I however wouldnt want to see us spending money unnecessarily however.

 

Thats the problem this window, prices are inflated due to the TV deals, but id suggest we need to get used to that, within reason.

 

For instance;

 

24m for Arnautovic probably is a good deal in this window

 

50m for Sigurdsson, as useful as he is, is over the top.

 

If we keep VVD id suggest signing a CM and AM of sufficient quality will be enough for most reasonable fans to be happy with.

 

No ambition is not always summed up by the monetary value of transfers but its an obvious pointer as to the direction the board wishes to drive them club. Ambition is however, from a sporting perspective determined by a clubs resolve over keeping the better players and adding and improving quality.

 

In short, we need to stand firm over VVD and Bertrand etc for all but the most outrageous of offers. And, if the opportunity arises add value to the squad by improving the first 11.

 

This of course, isnt paying over the odds for an average CB (smalling/Maguire) or an ageing and greedy ST (Defoe).

[Heisenberg]

Until Kat and Les move on we are going to be stuck in the 8-17 fun zone.

 

They seem very content to make up the numbers and we cant do anything about that.

 

Until they move on we will need to look for the positives and with a new manager and some exciting young players we have plenty too be cheerful about.

 

The whole club just needs a few red bulls as it seems to be coasting through the motions.

[St Marco]

The correlation between showing ambition and spending lots and lots and lots of money is flawed. Ambition can be shown in many other ways. I'd say the works done at Staplewood show an enormous amount of ambition, more so than a £30m signing would show me.

 

Seems like fans these days need to be appeased by ££££, and it's just wrong. It shouldn't be what it's about.The fact you've suggested Defoe says it all for me.

 

Mostly agree with you. Spending money for the sake of spending money isn't ambition, its stupidity. How many £20m+ players have been bought by PL teams in recent seasons and turned out to be average at best. Too many. Lazio did that over here for years and they got nowhere, as did AC.

That being said if we look at last season and figure out what our weaknesses are we should be trying to improve on them. Einstein said some **** about insanity being if you do the same thing over again and expect different results. If we go into next season with the squad as it is we will struggle imo. You mention Defoe but I don't see a problem with the guy. He scores lots of goals, always has. Just because he is now down the coast from us doesn't mean I will forget that. He scored more goals last season then our strikers combined. Bompey last season already scored more than us, do I think we will score more than them this season? As things stand probably not.

 

We have some decent players here, but we also have some really average ones. Mixed in with some youngsters who are not at the PL level just yet. Classie/Hojberg/Boufal have been poor last season. Long, Davis and Tadic seem to have gone backwards. Maybe that was down to Puel and the new guy can get them playing again. Either way with the millions we have (especially now from selling Jay) we should be able to find someone better than those who were poor last season. Add to that seeing as VVD doesn't look like he will be here we need a top class CB. As much praise as Yoshi and Stephens get we still shipped a lot of goals with those two as our CBs.

 

So I don't want the club to spend money for the sake of spending money. But on the flip side I know that a lot of teams are getting stronger this season where as we seem to be getting weaker.

[mattyd]

I raised this subject a couple of months ago. We have a split fanbase. Some fans think we can buck the trend and just bring youth through and others think we need to invest in the market. Ambition is about improvement and growing. A youth system cannot do this alone as only a very few players make the grade at Premier level. No side thrives without transfer spending and we are no exception. We finished 8th but only a few points more than 16th and we sacked the manager. In my view therefore, there is plenty of room for external talent to join and help us grow. Wanting mediocrity after tasting 6th is a lack of ambition and some of our fans prefer this. Without investment we struggle as we did the year we went down. Pure and simple!

[Tom & Gerry]

I thought the ambition was to have a team of academy graduates or has that changed since Cortese left?

[dellboysaint]

I think this is the general feeling for most fans. How can we expect our best players to commit when the last few years have seen mass exodus. The only way to keep hold of van dijk is to show the intent to push on. Spend decent money on a couple of crucial first team players such as gylfi and van dijk may well be swayed, even if only for another season.

 

Come on les ffs!

 

I agree. All squads need an intake of quality. To start the season with much the same squad as last season is complacency not ambition. Our summers are dominated by certain players looking to move on and it is all very predictable. They eventually move and we haven't the transfer window time or bottle to spend the money.

[mattyd]

A team of academy graduates would get relegated. The Under 23 side contains some good prospects but only a few make the elite grade. Remember when Mr Lowe believed youth would be our saviour? The aim was always to have a 50/50 split between youth and acquired talent. With all the extra revenue coming in we should not be standing still but at least be looking at a strategic acquisition at CEB and midfield in my view.

 

Or is ambition lining the wallets of the owner when everybody else looks to kick on?

[Lighthouse]

I thought the ambition was to have a team of academy graduates or has that changed since Cortese left?

 

That wasn't Cortese's ambition either, it was just a soundbite.

[itchen]

Until Kat and Les move on we are going to be stuck in the 8-17 fun zone.

 

They seem very content to make up the numbers and we cant do anything about that.

 

Until they move on we will need to look for the positives and with a new manager and some exciting young players we have plenty too be cheerful about.

 

The whole club just needs a few red bulls as it seems to be coasting through the motions.

 

So we need an owner willing to spend their money (on top of the income the club gets from tickets, media and merchandising, because we break even at the moment)?

 

As we have seen from the club down the road, that may work for a couple of seasons. We could sign top, top players, good lads all of them. And it may be sustainable if we're really, really lucky. Or the owner may lose interest, or be caught in some sort of financial wrongdoing.

 

And of course the FFP rules also make it difficult to spend vastly more than you earn.

 

Frankly, I'm happy supporting a club living within its means and trying to grow sustainably. It may be frustrating at times but I'm an adult. I can cope.

[Saint Billy]

Perhaps someone could enlighten me as to what is the clubs ambition atm?, as it's very difficult to correlate ambition with the club being up for sale.

Edited 24 July, 2017 by Saint Billy

[Window Cleaner]

Perhaps someone could enlighten me as to what is the clubs ambition atm?, as it's very difficult to correlate ambition with the club being up for sale.

 

A very good point.

[Pamplemousse]

Glad you wrote it. I dread to think of the reaction if I did.

 

We are back in the deepest darkest days of Lowe. And the result will be the same.

 

Even you don't believe that is true.

[Delmary]

I'd like to know what was on the end of that?

 

A skate?

[Delmary]

I suspect that the potential takeover is delaying any major investments in the team. We're second from bottom on the net spend league for this window. Huddersfield and Bournemouth have already spent over £30M.

[hutch]

I wish we were like Huddersfield and Bournemouth

[Window Cleaner]

I suspect that the potential takeover is delaying any major investments in the team. We're second from bottom on the net spend league for this window. Huddersfield and Bournemouth have already spent over £30M.

 

then again they have room for fairly accessible improvement don't they.

[Julian H. Cope]

I think this whole thread stands as proof that we have finally reached Peak Mong.

 

Well done everyone.

 

Is he the new Chinese lad? Can he play up front?

[OldNick]

I wish we were like Huddersfield and Bournemouth

what about Leicester? I always in the past thought that we were on par or even bigger than Leicester but whilst they have yo-yo'd they have won far more than us in the last 20odd years. We could/should have done far more with the resources and players we had, let alone the finance backing us. We are content in being 7th -16th in the PL and feel that is some kind of medal.

Then we get to a cup final and we sack the manager who got there. It really is a nonsense situation. Go into the league to win not just to be a bit part player.

Our moment is gone now as the weakened top 6 have got their act together and oir window of opportunity has been lost as we wanted money in rather than actually go for it

[Lighthouse]

what about Leicester? I always in the past thought that we were on par or even bigger than Leicester but whilst they have yo-yo'd they have won far more than us in the last 20odd years. We could/should have done far more with the resources and players we had, let alone the finance backing us. We are content in being 7th -16th in the PL and feel that is some kind of medal.

Then we get to a cup final and we sack the manager who got there. It really is a nonsense situation. Go into the league to win not just to be a bit part player.

Our moment is gone now as the weakened top 6 have got their act together and oir window of opportunity has been lost as we wanted money in rather than actually go for it

 

What are you suggesting? We should have kept Puel, we should try and sign Kante, what is it they're doing we should be trying to replicate?

[Window Cleaner]

what about Leicester? I always in the past thought that we were on par or even bigger than Leicester but whilst they have yo-yo'd they have won far more than us in the last 20odd years. We could/should have done far more with the resources and players we had, let alone the finance backing us. We are content in being 7th -16th in the PL and feel that is some kind of medal.

Then we get to a cup final and we sack the manager who got there. It really is a nonsense situation. Go into the league to win not just to be a bit part player.

Our moment is gone now as the weakened top 6 have got their act together and oir window of opportunity has been lost as we wanted money in rather than actually go for it

 

 

Leicester's owner has far more money than ours. He also runs a highly successful company which has no doubt proposed vast sums for stadium naming rights and shirt sponsorship. This is how you do it. It's nothing to do with FFP. Our problem is that our owner is a relative pauper compared to about half of the other PL clubs and all of the clubs above us. Her aunts, uncles and cousins have a lot of money, they could shirt sponsor us but seem to have no inkling to do so.

Edited 24 July, 2017 by Window Cleaner

[Window Cleaner]

What are you suggesting? We should have kept Puel, we should try and sign Kante, what is it they're doing we should be trying to replicate?

 

Kanté from Caen would have been doable but I think we bought Clasie instead.

[Pamplemousse]

In the past two seasons, we've finished above the team who had won the league the season previous.

[Window Cleaner]

In the past two seasons, we've finished above the team who had won the league the season previous.

 

Both of whom sacked their manager midway through the following season and then got a bit better..

[edprice1984]

I understand why many share the feelings of the OP. However, with the exception of VVD, it appears we are not going to be offloading 3 of 4 of our best players this year (unless someone bids silly money). If you look at the contracts being signed by players, they are 4/5 or 6 years - we are doing our best to hold on to talent. In respect to signings, I think the new money is a double edge sword. It allows us to attract better players, certainly when you compare the wages and fees to what the more traditional 'big' clubs of Europe can offer. But the selling club knows that they can drive up the price too. The club know where the limitations in the squad are, but throwing money at the problem is never a good solution. West Ham, Sunderland, Palace all spent big over the previous seasons and they haven't improved. Gradually clubs and chairmen are operating in a similar way to how Saints have been. A long term strategy which super cedes individual managers and coaches.

 

I hope we do sign a couple of extra players, a creative midfielder (Sigurddson would fit the bill); A defensive midfielder and depending on VVD, one more Centre Back, or if he stays another fullback.

[hutch]

what about Leicester? I always in the past thought that we were on par or even bigger than Leicester but whilst they have yo-yo'd they have won far more than us in the last 20odd years. We could/should have done far more with the resources and players we had, let alone the finance backing us. We are content in being 7th -16th in the PL and feel that is some kind of medal.

Then we get to a cup final and we sack the manager who got there. It really is a nonsense situation. Go into the league to win not just to be a bit part player.

Our moment is gone now as the weakened top 6 have got their act together and oir window of opportunity has been lost as we wanted money in rather than actually go for it

Yeah them too. I wish we were like Huddersfield and Bournemouth and Leicester.

[John B]

Yeah them too. I wish we were like Huddersfield and Bournemouth and Leicester.

 

I wish we were like Liverpool

 

 

First Division

Winners (18): 1900–01, 1905–06, 1921–22, 1922–23, 1946–47, 1963–64, 1965–66, 1972–73, 1975–76, 1976–77, 1978–79, 1979–80, 1981–82, 1982–83, 1983–84, 1985–86, 1987–88, 1989–90

Second Division

Winners (4): 1893–94, 1895–96, 1904–05, 1961–62

Lancashire League

Winners (1): 1892–93

Cups

FA Cup

Winners (7): 1964–65, 1973–74, 1985–86, 1988–89, 1991–92, 2000–01, 2005–06

Football League Cup

Winners (: 1980–81, 1981–82, 1982–83, 1983–84, 1994–95, 2000–01, 2002–03, 2011–12 (record)

FA Charity / Community Shield

Winners (15): 1964*, 1965*, 1966, 1974*, 1976, 1977*, 1979, 1980, 1982, 1986*, 1988, 1989, 1990*, 2001, 2006

[trousers]

Finally!

 

Now that Alps has completely written us off for the season it'll be fine from here on in.

 

Phew.

 

This is always a tense time of year for me. I can never relax until dear ol' Alps proclaims that we're doomed

 

Edited 24 July, 2017 by trousers

[adrian lord]

I wish we were like Southampton.

[Miltonaggro]

I wish we were like Liverpool

 

 

First Division

Winners (18): 1900–01, 1905–06, 1921–22, 1922–23, 1946–47, 1963–64, 1965–66, 1972–73, 1975–76, 1976–77, 1978–79, 1979–80, 1981–82, 1982–83, 1983–84, 1985–86, 1987–88, 1989–90

Second Division

Winners (4): 1893–94, 1895–96, 1904–05, 1961–62

Lancashire League

Winners (1): 1892–93

Cups

FA Cup

Winners (7): 1964–65, 1973–74, 1985–86, 1988–89, 1991–92, 2000–01, 2005–06

Football League Cup

Winners (: 1980–81, 1981–82, 1982–83, 1983–84, 1994–95, 2000–01, 2002–03, 2011–12 (record)

FA Charity / Community Shield

Winners (15): 1964*, 1965*, 1966, 1974*, 1976, 1977*, 1979, 1980, 1982, 1986*, 1988, 1989, 1990*, 2001, 2006

 

Over the last decade we are, apart that they won their League Cup final.

[Window Cleaner]

I wish we were like Liverpool

 

 

First Division

Winners (18): 1900–01, 1905–06, 1921–22, 1922–23, 1946–47, 1963–64, 1965–66, 1972–73, 1975–76, 1976–77, 1978–79, 1979–80, 1981–82, 1982–83, 1983–84, 1985–86, 1987–88, 1989–90

Second Division

Winners (4): 1893–94, 1895–96, 1904–05, 1961–62

Lancashire League

Winners (1): 1892–93

Cups

FA Cup

Winners (7): 1964–65, 1973–74, 1985–86, 1988–89, 1991–92, 2000–01, 2005–06

Football League Cup

Winners (: 1980–81, 1981–82, 1982–83, 1983–84, 1994–95, 2000–01, 2002–03, 2011–12 (record)

FA Charity / Community Shield

Winners (15): 1964*, 1965*, 1966, 1974*, 1976, 1977*, 1979, 1980, 1982, 1986*, 1988, 1989, 1990*, 2001, 2006

 

 

Not to mention 5 Champions League wins (or equivalent when it was called something else) and a few Europa League (idem) wins and a final in 2016.

 

Anyone comparing us with them is just well, deluded.

[trousers]

I'm just going to leave this here: http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/eng_div_2/8186241.stm

 

Confuscious says:-

He who keeps looking backwards can never see where he is going...

 

I wish we were like Liverpool

 

 

First Division

Winners (18): 1900–01, 1905–06, 1921–22, 1922–23, 1946–47, 1963–64, 1965–66, 1972–73, 1975–76, 1976–77, 1978–79, 1979–80, 1981–82, 1982–83, 1983–84, 1985–86, 1987–88, 1989–90

Second Division

Winners (4): 1893–94, 1895–96, 1904–05, 1961–62

Lancashire League

Winners (1): 1892–93

Cups

FA Cup

Winners (7): 1964–65, 1973–74, 1985–86, 1988–89, 1991–92, 2000–01, 2005–06

Football League Cup

Winners (: 1980–81, 1981–82, 1982–83, 1983–84, 1994–95, 2000–01, 2002–03, 2011–12 (record)

FA Charity / Community Shield

Winners (15): 1964*, 1965*, 1966, 1974*, 1976, 1977*, 1979, 1980, 1982, 1986*, 1988, 1989, 1990*, 2001, 2006

 

Now I'm confused.... is looking backwards a positive or negative thing to do?

[Wes Tender]

Leicester's owner has far more money than ours. He also runs a highly successful company which has no doubt proposed vast sums for stadium naming rights and shirt sponsorship. .

He doesn't have far more money than our owner. More, granted, but not substantially more. And his wealth is precarious, being as how it relies on the typical chicanery and skulduggery of the Thai methods of how to accumulate wealth and how to retain it. The main source of his wealth, the duty free shops, is due to be ended by 2020 by the Thai Military Junta government. I certainly wouldn't want owners like that here and I wonder how he got past the fit and proper persons criteria to take over Leicester anyway.

[John B]

He doesn't have far more money than our owner. More, granted, but not substantially more. And his wealth is precarious, being as how it relies on the typical chicanery and skulduggery of the Thai methods of how to accumulate wealth and how to retain it. The main source of his wealth, the duty free shops, is due to be ended by 2020 by the Thai Military Junta government. I certainly wouldn't want owners like that here and I wonder how he got past the fit and proper persons criteria to take over Leicester anyway.

 

You may well be right but I have never found out the wealth of Markhus and Katharine despite searching the internet I doubt they were/ are billionaires because I have never found them in a very rich list but of course I may well be wrong.

 

Where do you get your figures from

[Window Cleaner]

He doesn't have far more money than our owner. More, granted, but not substantially more. And his wealth is precarious, being as how it relies on the typical chicanery and skulduggery of the Thai methods of how to accumulate wealth and how to retain it. The main source of his wealth, the duty free shops, is due to be ended by 2020 by the Thai Military Junta government. I certainly wouldn't want owners like that here and I wonder how he got past the fit and proper persons criteria to take over Leicester anyway.

 

Our owner has about 300 million all up by most recent accounts, that bloke has about 4 billion. How is that not substantially more then ? Or are you still clinging on to the old 3.6 billion chestnut ?

 

here you go;

 

Leicester City owner Vichai Srivaddhanaprabha has seen his fortune grow to more than $4.7billion (£3.66bn), according to the latest figures.

The influential international business magazine Forbes has just released details of the 50 richest people in Vichai's homeland of Thailand.

Those figures show that his King Power business empire has grown by $1.45bn in the past 12 months from $3.25bn in 2016.

The growth is put down to Thailand's tourism boom that.

 

Show me the same for KL.

Edited 24 July, 2017 by Window Cleaner

[Ohio Saint]

Buying players is not our problem, it's holding on to our best bargains. Over spending on star names will not help keep our better players here. They don't look at the players around them and see a club going places, they just look at the big clubs and their even bigger wages and they are off. It will take years of being a consistently over-acheiving club for us to be able to hang on to our best aquisotions.

[Window Cleaner]

Buying players is not our problem, it's holding on to our best bargains. Over spending on star names will not help keep our better players here. They don't look at the players around them and see a club going places, they just look at the big clubs and their even bigger wages and they are off. It will take years of being a consistently over-acheiving club for us to be able to hang on to our best aquisotions.

 

We can't keep our best bargains because we don't have enough success to make them want to stay, therein lies the rub.

For more success we need more quality players, do you think Steve Davis and JWP would get anywhere near the City or Chelsea first team?

[John B]

We can't keep our best bargains because we don't have enough success to make them want to stay, therein lies the rub.

For more success we need more quality players, do you think Steve Davis and JWP would get anywhere near the City or Chelsea first team?

 

Not sure many of our players would get into a top 6 team and play regularly do you.

 

We are a provincial club which is performing the best it has in the 55 years or so since I started following them despite not having that many top class players who I saw when I was younger.

 

Like Terry Paine Ron Davies Martin Chivers Peter Osgood Kevin Keegan Dave Watson Mark Wright Alan Ball Alan Shearer MLT .

[Ohio Saint]

We can't keep our best bargains because we don't have enough success to make them want to stay, therein lies the rub.

For more success we need more quality players, do you think Steve Davis and JWP would get anywhere near the City or Chelsea first team?

 

No, they would not, but the point is that we need to grow. Growing takes time and careful planning. Last season was a bit of a step back in some ways, and they addressed the perceived setback quickly by sacking Puel. We didn't lose too much ground, and overall, I think we are still on an even keel regarding league positions. The rest will hopefully follow in time. The club seem to see it as a stability marathon rather than a smash and grab Sprint. I'm happy with that, set backs and all

[Convict Colony]

I wish we were like Huddersfield and Bournemouth