Our half-witted fans don't know how lucky they are

[mcbendy]

I spend a lot of time on Saints Web during the transfer window in the hope of getting a sniff of what's going on behind the scenes at the club. This season, more that usual, I have a sense that no-one on here has a clue. The forum is a painful read.

 

One thing that is very clear though (and this is probably true of all football clubs) is that a lot of our fans aren't the brightest. Honestly, some of the rubbish you read on here:

 

- I'd take a punt on [hugely expensive mediocre high salary player past his market value peak]

- The club don't reinvest the funds from player sales [despite the published financial accounts in the public domain clearly showing that we do - http://www.dailyecho.co.uk/news/15155581.Saints_invest___94m_in_squad/]

- [high salary 1st team player] should be made to train with the kids, as if that makes a grain of sense either financially or for morale around the club

- The black box isn't working [while simultaneously moaning about much-loved recent signings being tapped up or signed by bigger clubs]

- The most laughable of all, which I saw today, is that the club isn't being run in a sustainable way! This despite the (relative) financial prudence of the club, and also the very obvious indications from our performance and growth since league 1, which has been the epitome of sustainable growth.

 

Yes, expensive signings are 'exciting', but they often don't make good business sense. We've had our fair share of flops (Gaston, Osvaldo etc), but our policy of buying younger players at least gives some chance for improvement and resale value. Would fans really like us to carry on like West Ham, Pompey of a few years back, or QPR? Maybe we should get 'arry back to attract some near-retirement big names to drain our bank balance and send us back into the Championship?

 

Personally I love the way that the club operate. I understand that if a player is proven in the Prem, is in his late 20's or early 30's, is a fringe player for a 'big' club and/or is on a high salary then it's highly unlikely that we will sign him and I'm grateful for that. I also fully expect that when it becomes clear that we *are* about to sign a player it will be someone that I know almost nothing about and I'll have to frantically Google. I accept that there is a risk that these players will not develop in the way that the club hope that they will, but for every flop there is a Virgil, Victor or Mane. The 'buy low sell high' model generates revenue or at least reduces losses and, along with a policy of developing our own talent, makes sound business sense.

 

Is it too much to ask that our fans would 'get this' and would be grateful that our club is - in my opinion- one of the best run clubs in the Premier League?

[Lallana's Left Peg]

I don't think many fans would disagree with you. I think the acid question - and one you've not answered - is whether or not our business model provides us with a realistic crack at qualifying for Europe every year and even getting close to threatening the top 4? Surely at some point we accumulate enough money to take the 'next step' (whatever that may be)? How can we make players stay?

[Micky]

Couldn't agree more - but you have to accept that this is just a message board, most of what you read will be opinion and therefore much will be pure bollux. Most of the so called ITK posts are nothing of the kind, most are cryptic rubbish at best, others are look at me - I know something, which usually transpires to be nothing of substance at all. Then you have the trolls - we all know who they are, but we kind of tolerate them, they unfortunately need this place to exist in life - feel sorry for them.

 

But ultimately - it's as i said - just a message board. I enjoy some of the more informed stuff (Chez springs to mind, I enjoy some of the humour), so Ill check it out most days. But, I do agree - some of the stuff is just pure rubbish (a lot of things make me wonder what the age of the poster is!). So while I agree with you - I also think you have to take most of the stuff here with a very LARGE pinch of salt.

[ALWAYS_SFC]

I spend a lot of time on Saints Web during the transfer window in the hope of getting a sniff of what's going on behind the scenes at the club. This season, more that usual, I have a sense that no-one on here has a clue. The forum is a painful read.

 

One thing that is very clear though (and this is probably true of all football clubs) is that a lot of our fans aren't the brightest. Honestly, some of the rubbish you read on here:

 

- I'd take a punt on [hugely expensive mediocre high salary player past his market value peak]

- The club don't reinvest the funds from player sales [despite the published financial accounts in the public domain clearly showing that we do - http://www.dailyecho.co.uk/news/15155581.Saints_invest___94m_in_squad/]

- [high salary 1st team player] should be made to train with the kids, as if that makes a grain of sense either financially or for morale around the club

- The black box isn't working [while simultaneously moaning about much-loved recent signings being tapped up or signed by bigger clubs]

- The most laughable of all, which I saw today, is that the club isn't being run in a sustainable way! This despite the (relative) financial prudence of the club, and also the very obvious indications from our performance and growth since league 1, which has been the epitome of sustainable growth.

 

Yes, expensive signings are 'exciting', but they often don't make good business sense. We've had our fair share of flops (Gaston, Osvaldo etc), but our policy of buying younger players at least gives some chance for improvement and resale value. Would fans really like us to carry on like West Ham, Pompey of a few years back, or QPR? Maybe we should get 'arry back to attract some near-retirement big names to drain our bank balance and send us back into the Championship?

 

Personally I love the way that the club operate. I understand that if a player is proven in the Prem, is in his late 20's or early 30's, is a fringe player for a 'big' club and/or is on a high salary then it's highly unlikely that we will sign him and I'm grateful for that. I also fully expect that when it becomes clear that we *are* about to sign a player it will be someone that I know almost nothing about and I'll have to frantically Google. I accept that there is a risk that these players will not develop in the way that the club hope that they will, but for every flop there is a Virgil, Victor or Mane. The 'buy low sell high' model generates revenue or at least reduces losses and, along with a policy of developing our own talent, makes sound business sense.

 

Is it too much to ask that our fans would 'get this' and would be grateful that our club is - in my opinion- one of the best run clubs in the Premier League?

 

 

A fair few of us do mate but are often drowned out by the "not so bright ones" who just don`t want to

[Window Cleaner]

I don't think many fans would disagree with you. I think the acid question - and one you've not answered - is whether or not our business model provides us with a realistic crack at qualifying for Europe every year and even getting close to threatening the top 4? Surely at some point we accumulate enough money to take the 'next step' (whatever that may be)? How can we make players stay?

 

Accumulate money ? We seem to spend roughly what we receive and our owner doesn't have enough to give us any more.

The fans always want us to keep our top players and yet spend the kind of sum we would in theory receive for them. As I said yesterday we are what we are, 8th in the PL. We made 6th because we had a pretty good season and Chelsea and Liverpool screwed up completely. In today's football to make the very top your owner needs a lot of money and the will to spend it on the club. When we get that we'll be top 6 candidates, until then............ We could have made Europe by winning the League Cup but we came up against a top, top side in the final and didn't quite make it.

[beancounter saint]

I spend a lot of time on Saints Web during the transfer window in the hope of getting a sniff of what's going on behind the scenes at the club. This season, more that usual, I have a sense that no-one on here has a clue. The forum is a painful read.

 

One thing that is very clear though (and this is probably true of all football clubs) is that a lot of our fans aren't the brightest. Honestly, some of the rubbish you read on here:

 

- I'd take a punt on [hugely expensive mediocre high salary player past his market value peak]

- The club don't reinvest the funds from player sales [despite the published financial accounts in the public domain clearly showing that we do - http://www.dailyecho.co.uk/news/15155581.Saints_invest___94m_in_squad/]

- [high salary 1st team player] should be made to train with the kids, as if that makes a grain of sense either financially or for morale around the club

- The black box isn't working [while simultaneously moaning about much-loved recent signings being tapped up or signed by bigger clubs]

- The most laughable of all, which I saw today, is that the club isn't being run in a sustainable way! This despite the (relative) financial prudence of the club, and also the very obvious indications from our performance and growth since league 1, which has been the epitome of sustainable growth.

 

Yes, expensive signings are 'exciting', but they often don't make good business sense. We've had our fair share of flops (Gaston, Osvaldo etc), but our policy of buying younger players at least gives some chance for improvement and resale value. Would fans really like us to carry on like West Ham, Pompey of a few years back, or QPR? Maybe we should get 'arry back to attract some near-retirement big names to drain our bank balance and send us back into the Championship?

 

Personally I love the way that the club operate. I understand that if a player is proven in the Prem, is in his late 20's or early 30's, is a fringe player for a 'big' club and/or is on a high salary then it's highly unlikely that we will sign him and I'm grateful for that. I also fully expect that when it becomes clear that we *are* about to sign a player it will be someone that I know almost nothing about and I'll have to frantically Google. I accept that there is a risk that these players will not develop in the way that the club hope that they will, but for every flop there is a Virgil, Victor or Mane. The 'buy low sell high' model generates revenue or at least reduces losses and, along with a policy of developing our own talent, makes sound business sense.

 

Is it too much to ask that our fans would 'get this' and would be grateful that our club is - in my opinion- one of the best run clubs in the Premier League?

 

Agree in pretty much every respect but, to be fair, if everyone shared our opinions, there wouldn't be a lot to read on here!!

[mcbendy]

I don't think many fans would disagree with you. I think the acid question - and one you've not answered - is whether or not our business model provides us with a realistic crack at qualifying for Europe every year and even getting close to threatening the top 4? Surely at some point we accumulate enough money to take the 'next step' (whatever that may be)? How can we make players stay?

 

Good question. If the choice was to build the club up gradually so we are steady in ~6th place versus 'taking a punt' and risking boom and bust then I know what I'd prefer. If we can remain stable in 6-8th then there is always the chance of a few factors combining with a bit of luck and resulting in a top 4 finish. I still think that's pretty unlikely though. Is it realistic that we will break into the top 4 consistently? I would say no - all sorts of factors combine to make this unlikely. Not least history, population size of cities, the fact that we are based on the coast which limits our catchment area etc. Indeed I think the fact that we are as high as 6-8th shows exceptional management of the club, capitalising (not wasting) the Liebherr investment.

 

I actually think that being a stable top-half Prem club with a good philosophy and structure, with a tilt at a cup from time to time, is a pretty good place to be. Compare that to the League 1 days!

[Kingsland Red]

I spend a lot of time on Saints Web during the transfer window in the hope of getting a sniff of what's going on behind the scenes at the club. This season, more that usual, I have a sense that no-one on here has a clue. The forum is a painful read.

 

One thing that is very clear though (and this is probably true of all football clubs) is that a lot of our fans aren't the brightest. Honestly, some of the rubbish you read on here:

 

- I'd take a punt on [hugely expensive mediocre high salary player past his market value peak]

- The club don't reinvest the funds from player sales [despite the published financial accounts in the public domain clearly showing that we do - http://www.dailyecho.co.uk/news/15155581.Saints_invest___94m_in_squad/]

- [high salary 1st team player] should be made to train with the kids, as if that makes a grain of sense either financially or for morale around the club

- The black box isn't working [while simultaneously moaning about much-loved recent signings being tapped up or signed by bigger clubs]

- The most laughable of all, which I saw today, is that the club isn't being run in a sustainable way! This despite the (relative) financial prudence of the club, and also the very obvious indications from our performance and growth since league 1, which has been the epitome of sustainable growth.

 

Yes, expensive signings are 'exciting', but they often don't make good business sense. We've had our fair share of flops (Gaston, Osvaldo etc), but our policy of buying younger players at least gives some chance for improvement and resale value. Would fans really like us to carry on like West Ham, Pompey of a few years back, or QPR? Maybe we should get 'arry back to attract some near-retirement big names to drain our bank balance and send us back into the Championship?

 

Personally I love the way that the club operate. I understand that if a player is proven in the Prem, is in his late 20's or early 30's, is a fringe player for a 'big' club and/or is on a high salary then it's highly unlikely that we will sign him and I'm grateful for that. I also fully expect that when it becomes clear that we *are* about to sign a player it will be someone that I know almost nothing about and I'll have to frantically Google. I accept that there is a risk that these players will not develop in the way that the club hope that they will, but for every flop there is a Virgil, Victor or Mane. The 'buy low sell high' model generates revenue or at least reduces losses and, along with a policy of developing our own talent, makes sound business sense.

 

Is it too much to ask that our fans would 'get this' and would be grateful that our club is - in my opinion- one of the best run clubs in the Premier League?

 

Far too sensible for this forum.

Probably why many no longer bother to read the threads / post, albeit nothing ever happens between the end of the season and about now anyway.

[Saint Garrett]

Completely agree with the OP.

 

We're not going to sign a Chris Smalling, or a Sigurdsson, or an Arnautovic etc, it's just not how the club works. (Which I am absolutely fine with). The only one I can think of that sits in a similar bracket is Austin, but given his contract situation at QPR, he was available on the cheap.

 

Obviously the frustrating thing is that we never get to see the best of these players, as as soon as they get to a decent level, they're off, which is why we always seem to have this issue of keeping players for one more year.

 

I'm quite happy with us being a sustainable model, play decent attractive football and cause a few upsets throughout the season, hoping that our close knit under rated team play above their level as they're all wanting the next step in their careers. Much rather that than, signing the aged expensive players who won't have a very big impact on our season.

[Spoonman]

In comparison to the Echo and the UI this place is a bastion of sense and wisdom.

[suewhistle]

I think we're in about the right place. Gradually the infrastructure has been improved, and I feel it's a bit like having a mortgage; the debt goes down and the equity goes up and you can start feeling more confident about spending.

 

What can we achieve? Can we 'do a Leicester', who knows. When you see the actions of some of the big clubs (e.g. Chelsea) it does seem that certain signings are not so much for players for your team but to deny them to others. Perhaps a bit more awareness on the part of players not to look at short term gain might help, but that's a very optimistic hope, although Romeu and Bertrand are good examples to point out to others.

[Saint_clark]

I don't think many fans would disagree with you. I think the acid question - and one you've not answered - is whether or not our business model provides us with a realistic crack at qualifying for Europe every year and even getting close to threatening the top 4? Surely at some point we accumulate enough money to take the 'next step' (whatever that may be)? How can we make players stay?

 

The next step is the biggest. We're around about where Spurs were around 2008-2010 in terms of league positions. Not impossible to keep improving, it's just that the rate of it will slow down.

[Micky]

Good question. If the choice was to build the club up gradually so we are steady in ~6th place versus 'taking a punt' and risking boom and bust then I know what I'd prefer. If we can remain stable in 6-8th then there is always the chance of a few factors combining with a bit of luck and resulting in a top 4 finish. I still think that's pretty unlikely though. Is it realistic that we will break into the top 4 consistently? I would say no - all sorts of factors combine to make this unlikely. Not least history, population size of cities, the fact that we are based on the coast which limits our catchment area etc. Indeed I think the fact that we are as high as 6-8th shows exceptional management of the club, capitalising (not wasting) the Liebherr investment.

 

I actually think that being a stable top-half Prem club with a good philosophy and structure, with a tilt at a cup from time to time, is a pretty good place to be. Compare that to the League 1 days!

 

Again, absolutely agree. We are what we are and we are where we are.

 

Whether you like it or not there is a footballing pyramid and we are pretty much where we should be. Yes the club will talk about CL ambitions, but reality is they are things that we can strive for, but achieving them is very, very difficult. Taking the pyramid as a whole - I'm more than happy with our position in it. (Leeds Utd, Sheffield Utd, Wolverhampton Wanderers, Birmingham City, Aston Villa, etc).

[Heisenberg]

Seems there are three types of people on here.

 

The smart ones: who are largely content to make up the numbers, float between 8-17

 

The dinlows: that want to see there favourite club actually win something and keep better players.

 

The wannabe mods no opinions either way, just here to post and moan about other posters.

[Pamplemousse]

McBendy is one hundred percent correct - they need to go read some history books. We could spend spend spend and end up like the skates.

 

Some of those to whom he is referring aren't "half-witted" but just like to provoke a reaction from people. Twitter I think contains more of our idiot fans.

[ALWAYS_SFC]

Seems there are three types of people on here.

 

The smart ones: who are largely content to make up the numbers, float between 8-17

 

The dinlows: that want to see there favourite club actually win something and keep better players.

 

The wannabe mods no opinions either way, just here to post and moan about other posters.

 

Four types ...

 

Those that just post with the sole intention to wind up and troll, but to be fair one or two are very successful at it

[ant]

Pragmatism isn't common in football fans. Indeed, I'm sure many would argue it's a mutually exclusive trait.

 

I'm not so sure; isn't it perfectly plausible to be both passionate and realistic? In the 2-or-so hours a week that we're playing, all I'm focused on is Saints getting a result - but it's how the club is run the rest of the time that facilitates that. I'd rather we go about business the right way than attempt to force the issue, as so many other clubs have done.

 

Recently, every time I've visited one of Saints' accounts on Twitter or Facebook (or to an extent, here), I've left thinking 'thank Le God the fans aren't running the club'.

[baggytrousers]

I spend a lot of time on Saints Web during the transfer window in the hope of getting a sniff of what's going on behind the scenes at the club. This season, more that usual, I have a sense that no-one on here has a clue. The forum is a painful read.

 

One thing that is very clear though (and this is probably true of all football clubs) is that a lot of our fans aren't the brightest. Honestly, some of the rubbish you read on here:

 

- I'd take a punt on [hugely expensive mediocre high salary player past his market value peak]

- The club don't reinvest the funds from player sales [despite the published financial accounts in the public domain clearly showing that we do - http://www.dailyecho.co.uk/news/15155581.Saints_invest___94m_in_squad/]

- [high salary 1st team player] should be made to train with the kids, as if that makes a grain of sense either financially or for morale around the club

- The black box isn't working [while simultaneously moaning about much-loved recent signings being tapped up or signed by bigger clubs]

- The most laughable of all, which I saw today, is that the club isn't being run in a sustainable way! This despite the (relative) financial prudence of the club, and also the very obvious indications from our performance and growth since league 1, which has been the epitome of sustainable growth.

 

Yes, expensive signings are 'exciting', but they often don't make good business sense. We've had our fair share of flops (Gaston, Osvaldo etc), but our policy of buying younger players at least gives some chance for improvement and resale value. Would fans really like us to carry on like West Ham, Pompey of a few years back, or QPR? Maybe we should get 'arry back to attract some near-retirement big names to drain our bank balance and send us back into the Championship?

 

Personally I love the way that the club operate. I understand that if a player is proven in the Prem, is in his late 20's or early 30's, is a fringe player for a 'big' club and/or is on a high salary then it's highly unlikely that we will sign him and I'm grateful for that. I also fully expect that when it becomes clear that we *are* about to sign a player it will be someone that I know almost nothing about and I'll have to frantically Google. I accept that there is a risk that these players will not develop in the way that the club hope that they will, but for every flop there is a Virgil, Victor or Mane. The 'buy low sell high' model generates revenue or at least reduces losses and, along with a policy of developing our own talent, makes sound business sense.

 

Is it too much to ask that our fans would 'get this' and would be grateful that our club is - in my opinion- one of the best run clubs in the Premier League?

 

Agree with most of what you say but I think calling it the 'buy low, sell high' model doesn't fully do it justice as I think we are trying to move beyond that. We have used the funds generated from this strategy to upgrade Staplewood, strengthen our squad and offer longer term improved contracts to our key players. I believe we have entered a new phase where we are trying not to sell at all unless it's on our terms (e.g. JayRod who left with our blessing).

 

So I believe the new model is better described as "buy young and low, improve, make a key part of the squad, only sell if we have to" with a view to having a critical mass of good young talent establishing themselves at the same time to put us in a good enough position to mount a serious challenge to the mega rich clubs in a season where it all comes together.

[SonicBoom]

I would just add this to the OP, (and to cover a point made by Saint Garrett) players dont get to a "decent level" then they're off. The vast majority of the players that we rue leaving us, got to the very top level and then were off.

We don't lose players to West Ham, Stoke etc, we lose players to United, Liverpool, Spurs and other top 6 clubs.

 

Are we therefore a selling club or are we a club that for whatever reason have unearthed incredible players? Everton, West Ham, Stoke, Watford, Swansea, etc etc all of them have the odd jem that the big clubs sometimes want. It is a testament to our recruitment and development that we have produced so many.

Had any of the clubs around us produced those players, I don't believe it would have been any different. Top players want to go to the top clubs.

I'm convinced we would rather keep them than sell, but unfortunately what the club wants and what happens are not the same thing.

[mrfahaji]

Good question. If the choice was to build the club up gradually so we are steady in ~6th place versus 'taking a punt' and risking boom and bust then I know what I'd prefer. If we can remain stable in 6-8th then there is always the chance of a few factors combining with a bit of luck and resulting in a top 4 finish. I still think that's pretty unlikely though. Is it realistic that we will break into the top 4 consistently? I would say no - all sorts of factors combine to make this unlikely. Not least history, population size of cities, the fact that we are based on the coast which limits our catchment area etc. Indeed I think the fact that we are as high as 6-8th shows exceptional management of the club, capitalising (not wasting) the Liebherr investment.

 

I actually think that being a stable top-half Prem club with a good philosophy and structure, with a tilt at a cup from time to time, is a pretty good place to be. Compare that to the League 1 days!

 

Good points, as is your OP. Don't think it's unreasonable to want the club to take a step forward each season though, rather than patting itself on the back.

 

Objectively I am delighted with our standing on and off the pitch, but there have been moments in the past (Alderweireld, Fonte, strikers last summer, AM for about 4 years) which have left me wondering if the club is quite such a well oiled machine as it likes to portray, as well as being a bit complacent at times. If, for example, we go into next season having not made any steps to strengthen our midfield, I would view that as a mistake and further evidence of complacency. This isn't the transfer window to start going all out, but it would be nice for us to get a little bit better every year, even if all we do is slightly improve on, or just maintain our position in the table.

[Lord Duckhunter]

Villa should be an example to us of what can go wrong. A foreign owner that got fed up trying to push on. As Everton are going to find this season, it's a massive massive step to actually get into the top four & you have to spend silly money year in year out. Leicester was a once in a generation story, a freak season. I'm happy with top 10 & decent cup runs season in season out, and personally believe we'll only get that with a sustainable club where the owner doesn't need to chuck massive sums around each year. I bet there's 85 ish football club supporters wishing they were run like Southampton

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Supersubpuckett]

God forbid anyone should have an opinion that is different to the OP and want the club to achieve a little more than simply being recognised as 'well run'. I quite enjoy the diversity of views, no matter how extreme or mis-guided some might seem - makes life interesting.

[Turkish]

I spend a lot of time on Saints Web during the transfer window in the hope of getting a sniff of what's going on behind the scenes at the club. This season, more that usual, I have a sense that no-one on here has a clue. The forum is a painful read.

 

One thing that is very clear though (and this is probably true of all football clubs) is that a lot of our fans aren't the brightest. Honestly, some of the rubbish you read on here:

 

- I'd take a punt on [hugely expensive mediocre high salary player past his market value peak]

- The club don't reinvest the funds from player sales [despite the published financial accounts in the public domain clearly showing that we do - http://www.dailyecho.co.uk/news/15155581.Saints_invest___94m_in_squad/]

- [high salary 1st team player] should be made to train with the kids, as if that makes a grain of sense either financially or for morale around the club

- The black box isn't working [while simultaneously moaning about much-loved recent signings being tapped up or signed by bigger clubs]

- The most laughable of all, which I saw today, is that the club isn't being run in a sustainable way! This despite the (relative) financial prudence of the club, and also the very obvious indications from our performance and growth since league 1, which has been the epitome of sustainable growth.

 

Yes, expensive signings are 'exciting', but they often don't make good business sense. We've had our fair share of flops (Gaston, Osvaldo etc), but our policy of buying younger players at least gives some chance for improvement and resale value. Would fans really like us to carry on like West Ham, Pompey of a few years back, or QPR? Maybe we should get 'arry back to attract some near-retirement big names to drain our bank balance and send us back into the Championship?

 

Personally I love the way that the club operate. I understand that if a player is proven in the Prem, is in his late 20's or early 30's, is a fringe player for a 'big' club and/or is on a high salary then it's highly unlikely that we will sign him and I'm grateful for that. I also fully expect that when it becomes clear that we *are* about to sign a player it will be someone that I know almost nothing about and I'll have to frantically Google. I accept that there is a risk that these players will not develop in the way that the club hope that they will, but for every flop there is a Virgil, Victor or Mane. The 'buy low sell high' model generates revenue or at least reduces losses and, along with a policy of developing our own talent, makes sound business sense.

 

Is it too much to ask that our fans would 'get this' and would be grateful that our club is - in my opinion- one of the best run clubs in the Premier League?

 

You forgot the one about that bumbling, incompetent fool Les Reed, who despite overseeing a rise from league one to a top 8 premier league finish four years in a row, European football and a major cup final, clearly doesnt have a clue what he is doing.

[Oldeuboi]

You forgot the one about that bumbling, incompetent fool Les Reed, who despite overseeing a rise from league one to a top 8 premier league finish four years in a row, European football and a major cup final, clearly doesnt have a clue what he is doing.

 

He was sacked from Charlton you know? Should be shipped out with bumbling Black ASAP. They've been conspiring against our club for too long.

[East Kent Saint]

We have to remember that Southampton is not the place that attracts people to live in the UK . SFC is a good mid table club BUT can never offer £10M salaries or be " the place where everyone wants to go".

Sky are already having to mark down their sports packages so I can see (as with F1) that the golden goose is for the chop and we will have to get back to local football clubs and start again . I will always remember matches at the Dell and Ron Davis/Terry Paine etc as the reason I support The Saints !!

[Dalek2003]

If we stay up, we are successful. Anything above 17th is a bonus.

[mrfahaji]

We have to remember that Southampton is not the place that attracts people to live in the UK . SFC is a good mid table club BUT can never offer £10M salaries or be " the place where everyone wants to go".

Sky are already having to mark down their sports packages so I can see (as with F1) that the golden goose is for the chop and we will have to get back to local football clubs and start again . I will always remember matches at the Dell and Ron Davis/Terry Paine etc as the reason I support The Saints !!

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-38351138

 

I know this probably isn't quite the point you were making, but the South Coast is quite an attrative place to live, in fact probably one of the most attractive places to live after London.

[mcbendy]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-38351138

 

I know this probably isn't quite the point you were making, but the South Coast is quite an attrative place to live, in fact probably one of the most attractive places to live after London.

 

Yes, for folk of a certain demographic! I don't think footballers have Winchester and all of its charms high on their radars! Nor Soton for that matter. The south coast is a lovely place to retire to and for some of us of working age a fantastic place to live but if you're a 20-something multi-millionaire footballer looking for the bright lights then.... not so much...

[mrfahaji]

Yes, for folk of a certain demographic! I don't think footballers have Winchester and all of its charms high on their radars! Nor Soton for that matter. The south coast is a lovely place to retire to and for some of us of working age a fantastic place to live but if you're a 20-something multi-millionaire footballer looking for the bright lights then.... not so much...

 

I suppose so, I tend to forget that footballers in their 20s are after good nightlife...! But quite a few of those 20-something footballers also have young families.

[Tom & Gerry]

I spend a lot of time on Saints Web during the transfer window in the hope of getting a sniff of what's going on behind the scenes at the club. This season, more that usual, I have a sense that no-one on here has a clue. The forum is a painful read.

 

One thing that is very clear though (and this is probably true of all football clubs) is that a lot of our fans aren't the brightest. Honestly, some of the rubbish you read on here:

 

- I'd take a punt on [hugely expensive mediocre high salary player past his market value peak]

- The club don't reinvest the funds from player sales [despite the published financial accounts in the public domain clearly showing that we do - http://www.dailyecho.co.uk/news/15155581.Saints_invest___94m_in_squad/]

- [high salary 1st team player] should be made to train with the kids, as if that makes a grain of sense either financially or for morale around the club

- The black box isn't working [while simultaneously moaning about much-loved recent signings being tapped up or signed by bigger clubs]

- The most laughable of all, which I saw today, is that the club isn't being run in a sustainable way! This despite the (relative) financial prudence of the club, and also the very obvious indications from our performance and growth since league 1, which has been the epitome of sustainable growth.

 

Yes, expensive signings are 'exciting', but they often don't make good business sense. We've had our fair share of flops (Gaston, Osvaldo etc), but our policy of buying younger players at least gives some chance for improvement and resale value. Would fans really like us to carry on like West Ham, Pompey of a few years back, or QPR? Maybe we should get 'arry back to attract some near-retirement big names to drain our bank balance and send us back into the Championship?

 

Personally I love the way that the club operate. I understand that if a player is proven in the Prem, is in his late 20's or early 30's, is a fringe player for a 'big' club and/or is on a high salary then it's highly unlikely that we will sign him and I'm grateful for that. I also fully expect that when it becomes clear that we *are* about to sign a player it will be someone that I know almost nothing about and I'll have to frantically Google. I accept that there is a risk that these players will not develop in the way that the club hope that they will, but for every flop there is a Virgil, Victor or Mane. The 'buy low sell high' model generates revenue or at least reduces losses and, along with a policy of developing our own talent, makes sound business sense.

 

Is it too much to ask that our fans would 'get this' and would be grateful that our club is - in my opinion- one of the best run clubs in the Premier League?

Yes we are very lucky and I agree with what you say but football is a passionate game and everyone has the right to express the frustration we all feel at times and to say things that if we are honest we have all thought and then maybe dismissed as daft and to challange the accepted thinking.

Most of my frustration is not with Saints but with the game itself. If I sell my house I expect to buy another property of similar value with the proceeds. Saints have sold over a complete team in recent years to improve Liverpool, Arsenal, Spurs and Man U so by rights we should now have purchased a team as good as those teams. For all the reasons you have stated it is not a fair league and it hasn't happened, but it should be and then young players who show a semblance of ability would be proud to play for us and not wish they were elsewhere.

[Saint-Fred]

If we go down this year...are we still the best run club?

[Pamplemousse]

If we go down this year...are we still the best run club?

 

We will be nearer the top 4 than the bottom 3.

[Saint-Fred]

We will be nearer the top 4 than the bottom 3.

 

Yeah I think so..it's just a question.. If what we do works we are "well run"...does it make a difference if we have a bad season and go down..are we still, in that case, well run?

[The9]

I spend a lot of time on Saints Web during the transfer window in the hope of getting a sniff of what's going on behind the scenes at the club. This season, more that usual, I have a sense that no-one on here has a clue. The forum is a painful read.

 

One thing that is very clear though (and this is probably true of all football clubs) is that a lot of our fans aren't the brightest. Honestly, some of the rubbish you read on here:

 

- I'd take a punt on [hugely expensive mediocre high salary player past his market value peak]

- The club don't reinvest the funds from player sales [despite the published financial accounts in the public domain clearly showing that we do - http://www.dailyecho.co.uk/news/15155581.Saints_invest___94m_in_squad/]

- [high salary 1st team player] should be made to train with the kids, as if that makes a grain of sense either financially or for morale around the club

- The black box isn't working [while simultaneously moaning about much-loved recent signings being tapped up or signed by bigger clubs]

- The most laughable of all, which I saw today, is that the club isn't being run in a sustainable way! This despite the (relative) financial prudence of the club, and also the very obvious indications from our performance and growth since league 1, which has been the epitome of sustainable growth.

 

Yes, expensive signings are 'exciting', but they often don't make good business sense. We've had our fair share of flops (Gaston, Osvaldo etc), but our policy of buying younger players at least gives some chance for improvement and resale value. Would fans really like us to carry on like West Ham, Pompey of a few years back, or QPR? Maybe we should get 'arry back to attract some near-retirement big names to drain our bank balance and send us back into the Championship?

 

Personally I love the way that the club operate. I understand that if a player is proven in the Prem, is in his late 20's or early 30's, is a fringe player for a 'big' club and/or is on a high salary then it's highly unlikely that we will sign him and I'm grateful for that. I also fully expect that when it becomes clear that we *are* about to sign a player it will be someone that I know almost nothing about and I'll have to frantically Google. I accept that there is a risk that these players will not develop in the way that the club hope that they will, but for every flop there is a Virgil, Victor or Mane. The 'buy low sell high' model generates revenue or at least reduces losses and, along with a policy of developing our own talent, makes sound business sense.

 

Is it too much to ask that our fans would 'get this' and would be grateful that our club is - in my opinion- one of the best run clubs in the Premier League?

 

Excellent, rational, reasonable, sensible post. Good use of the right "there/their/they're", too.

[The9]

it would be nice for us to get a little bit better every year, even if all we do is slightly improve on, or just maintain our position in the table.

 

Just keeping the developing players along with the established ones *is* progress.

[CB Fry]

You forgot the one about that bumbling, incompetent fool Les Reed, who despite overseeing a rise from league one to a top 8 premier league finish four years in a row, European football and a major cup final, clearly doesnt have a clue what he is doing.

BISHOPS STORTFORD FFS. BISHOPS STORTFORD.

[Nordic Saint]

A footbll club is the fans. Anyone who hates the fans might as well support another club although he'd probably hate their fans too. These types usally hate footballers as well. I'm not sure it's just a football thing though. Some people are just misanthropes and don't really like anyone apart from themselves.

[shurlock]

Exquisite strawman by the OP.

[krissyboy31]

A footbll club is the fans. Anyone who hates the fans might as well support another club although he'd probably hate their fans too. These types usally hate footballers as well. I'm not sure it's just a football thing though. Some people are just misanthropes and don't really like anyone apart from themselves.

 

[SaintSeb]

A footbll club is the fans. Anyone who hates the fans might as well support another club although he'd probably hate their fans too. These types usally hate footballers as well. I'm not sure it's just a football thing though. Some people are just misanthropes and don't really like anyone apart from themselves.

 

Aren't you the bloke who threatened to fight someone on here? Where does that leave you in your logic...?

[Charlie Wayman]

A footbll club is the fans. Anyone who hates the fans might as well support another club although he'd probably hate their fans too. These types usally hate footballers as well. I'm not sure it's just a football thing though. Some people are just misanthropes and don't really like anyone apart from themselves.

 

Gobble-de-gook? It doesn't even make sense.

[ally_uk]

I like the way we do things, Sure we could go and spunk £60 million on some Carlos Kick A ball's but would that guarantee success? I like the idea of signing up the unknown younger talent with obvious potential getting them to gradually bed in over a season or two. I think the way we go about things is smart, I think our main priority is to start this new season with all of the strength of the squad intact essentially build a spine of a team and improve it gradually. The way I see it we do not need to make loads of signings.... The positives are:

 

Players such as Clasie, Hoijberg, Boufal becoming more adjusted to the premier league and style of football.

Starting the season with both Gabba and Austin up top = more firepower than we had at the start of last season...

Sam Gallagher could offer us another dimension / option.

No European football which will improve fitness levels.....

A Manager who likes to play a pressing style who actually has a bit of charisma about himself......

 

Honestly if we don't sign anyone else and keep what we currently half I wouldn't p*ss the mattress.....

[Saint Billy]

I spend a lot of time on Saints Web during the transfer window in the hope of getting a sniff of what's going on behind the scenes at the club. This season, more that usual, I have a sense that no-one on here has a clue. The forum is a painful read.

 

One thing that is very clear though (and this is probably true of all football clubs) is that a lot of our fans aren't the brightest. Honestly, some of the rubbish you read on here:

 

- I'd take a punt on [hugely expensive mediocre high salary player past his market value peak]

- The club don't reinvest the funds from player sales [despite the published financial accounts in the public domain clearly showing that we do - http://www.dailyecho.co.uk/news/15155581.Saints_invest___94m_in_squad/]

- [high salary 1st team player] should be made to train with the kids, as if that makes a grain of sense either financially or for morale around the club

- The black box isn't working [while simultaneously moaning about much-loved recent signings being tapped up or signed by bigger clubs]

- The most laughable of all, which I saw today, is that the club isn't being run in a sustainable way! This despite the (relative) financial prudence of the club, and also the very obvious indications from our performance and growth since league 1, which has been the epitome of sustainable growth.

 

Yes, expensive signings are 'exciting', but they often don't make good business sense. We've had our fair share of flops (Gaston, Osvaldo etc), but our policy of buying younger players at least gives some chance for improvement and resale value. Would fans really like us to carry on like West Ham, Pompey of a few years back, or QPR? Maybe we should get 'arry back to attract some near-retirement big names to drain our bank balance and send us back into the Championship?

 

Personally I love the way that the club operate. I understand that if a player is proven in the Prem, is in his late 20's or early 30's, is a fringe player for a 'big' club and/or is on a high salary then it's highly unlikely that we will sign him and I'm grateful for that. I also fully expect that when it becomes clear that we *are* about to sign a player it will be someone that I know almost nothing about and I'll have to frantically Google. I accept that there is a risk that these players will not develop in the way that the club hope that they will, but for every flop there is a Virgil, Victor or Mane. The 'buy low sell high' model generates revenue or at least reduces losses and, along with a policy of developing our own talent, makes sound business sense.

 

Is it too much to ask that our fans would 'get this' and would be grateful that our club is - in my opinion- one of the best run clubs in the Premier League?

 

Half witted!, not a good start.

 

Are you aware that this forum is in existence for us mere mortals to voice our own opinions whether you or someone else agree's with them or not.

 

As our dear club is not as transparent as it claimed it would be, we have to sometimes guess at its plans for the future on and off the field.

 

With regard to the future, is our well run and sustainable club up for sale or not?. Will the possible take over by Chinese ownership still be able to maintain the so called Southampton way and run the club prudently?.

 

Yes we are lucky, very lucky we are still in existence, but unless you support one of the top 6 sides your glass ia always going to be half full, your best players will always leave along with the better managers and both will always want to be part of a club that offers more than what Southampton FC does. This is bound to have a negative affect on the fans eventually, especially Saints fans to which it happens almost annually.

 

This is not just a Southampton FC problem but a modern day problem with football in general, even Arsenal fans throw their toys out of the pram regularily.

 

The game is dying in my book mainly due to the gross amounts of money in the game and unless the playing field is evened up in some way so that more clubs have a chance of being more competitive fans will start deserting the game, plus we will see more negative games where the minnow clubs will just shut shop and play 10 men in defence as this is the only way to get a possible result against a team of elite footballers.

 

Rant concluded.

[corky morris]

I think plenty of us do get it.

That doesn't mean we shouldn't have aspirations to sign players who improve. Inheacho is a classic example of that IMHO. I think he is the right age & would represent a good investment.

That said, I would rather play Stephens than spend £20m on Abe.

I don't think there is any doubt that if we lost VVD we would be a weaker side & we would need to buy a new centre back. Someone like Indi Martins. Yes he is a similar age to VVD, but could potentially play for us for 5 years. I would add Smalling to that too, but he will always earn more at WHU or Everton. He's 27 & at £12m would be an ideal replacement for Fonte.

I genuinely hope we get to see more of Sims, Stephens, McQueen, Jones, Hesketh & Valery this season. If the only way we can do that is by not splashing unnecessary money on overpriced players then that's cool with me.

As long as we play attacking entertaining football.

FWIW, I also think we are waiting for other teams to spend over the odds on players & then pick up some bargains toward the end of the window.

As it stands, the top 7 from last season are getting further away from us. We wont spend the money Everton have. Don't forget they spent £30m on Bolasie last summer too. If they sell Barkley & with the Lukaku money they will still be in profit (probably).

[baggytrousers]

I think plenty of us do get it.

That doesn't mean we shouldn't have aspirations to sign players who improve. Inheacho is a classic example of that IMHO. I think he is the right age & would represent a good investment.

That said, I would rather play Stephens than spend £20m on Abe.

I don't think there is any doubt that if we lost VVD we would be a weaker side & we would need to buy a new centre back. Someone like Indi Martins. Yes he is a similar age to VVD, but could potentially play for us for 5 years. I would add Smalling to that too, but he will always earn more at WHU or Everton. He's 27 & at £12m would be an ideal replacement for Fonte.

I genuinely hope we get to see more of Sims, Stephens, McQueen, Jones, Hesketh & Valery this season. If the only way we can do that is by not splashing unnecessary money on overpriced players then that's cool with me.

As long as we play attacking entertaining football.

FWIW, I also think we are waiting for other teams to spend over the odds on players & then pick up some bargains toward the end of the window.

As it stands, the top 7 from last season are getting further away from us. We wont spend the money Everton have. Don't forget they spent £30m on Bolasie last summer too. If they sell Barkley & with the Lukaku money they will still be in profit (probably).

 

Signing young players who will improve is exactly what we've been doing. Our 3 major signings last summer were 20, 22 and 22 years old and our only signing this summer is 21. Yet people see them as downgrades on the likes of Pelle and Mane without taking their age and obvious potential into account at all.

 

At the same time they see Jack Stephens who is actually older than 3 out of the 4 players we signed (and only a couple of months younger than Boufal) as an up and coming young academy prospect. Same goes for Sam McQueen. There's a section of fans who seem to give these players a lot more latitude, because of their age, to make mistakes as they learn the game in the Premiership but the youngsters we buy in are expected to be seasoned pros from the moment we sign them.

[Donatello]

Largely agree with the original post, but this thread is just a circlejerk :thunmbup:

[ScepticalStan]

I suppose so, I tend to forget that footballers in their 20s are after good nightlife...! But quite a few of those 20-something footballers also have young families.

 

Hmm... not sure about that.

 

A standard football contract severely restricts your ability to hit the town and make the most of the nightlife (and from other things like skiiing, bungee-jumping, riding a motorbike and any other activity where you could put yourself at risk of injury). You're regularly tested for things like alcohol or substance abuse and often given a strict diet to go with your training programme - Redknapp had a straight-up blanket-ban on alcohol when he was at Spurs.

 

This is part of the reason why footballers get married and have kids so early on - they aren't able to make the most of hitting the town every night and banging women left, right and centre.

 

Anyway. London is obviously an attractive place to be, but I don't think location is too big a deal for most footballers and certainly not in England. I'd say that Newcastle and Sunderland are probably the only clubs that have felt any sort of slight impact in terms of geography.

[ScepticalStan]

Half witted!, not a good start.

 

Are you aware that this forum is in existence for us mere mortals to voice our own opinions whether you or someone else agree's with them or not.

 

As our dear club is not as transparent as it claimed it would be, we have to sometimes guess at its plans for the future on and off the field.

 

With regard to the future, is our well run and sustainable club up for sale or not?. Will the possible take over by Chinese ownership still be able to maintain the so called Southampton way and run the club prudently?.

 

Yes we are lucky, very lucky we are still in existence, but unless you support one of the top 6 sides your glass ia always going to be half full, your best players will always leave along with the better managers and both will always want to be part of a club that offers more than what Southampton FC does. This is bound to have a negative affect on the fans eventually, especially Saints fans to which it happens almost annually.

 

This is not just a Southampton FC problem but a modern day problem with football in general, even Arsenal fans throw their toys out of the pram regularily.

 

The game is dying in my book mainly due to the gross amounts of money in the game and unless the playing field is evened up in some way so that more clubs have a chance of being more competitive fans will start deserting the game, plus we will see more negative games where the minnow clubs will just shut shop and play 10 men in defence as this is the only way to get a possible result against a team of elite footballers.

 

Rant concluded.

 

I think there's a lot I agree with on both sides of this argument.

 

On the one hand, yes, things could absolutely be worse, and that's not only compared to the recent basket-cases like Sunderland, Villa, Pompey and so on, as you only have to cast your eyes down to the lower leagues and see the Ipswiches, Coventrys, Forests, Leeds-es and Derbys and think "****, we could absolutely still be down there now."

 

The club is well-run, its sustainable, its created an identity for itself and is generally admired by most football fans. We're doing OK in general and are certainly doing well for our size.

 

However, I do think there's a bit of a masochistic tendency at Saints to really seem to 'turn on their own' when it comes to anyone showing a shred of ambition. When you look at the team we had in 14/15 and the players we had available - we absolutely should have finished higher than the 7th place we did. That isn't delusion, its simply an assessment of just how good the players we had at our disposal were. If you look at 15/16, we finished 3 points off the Champions League spots despite a horrendous run in the Winter. Our record against the Big Six was 6 wins 2 draws and 4 defeats - that's a hell of a record and certainly shows no sign whatsoever of a permanent glass ceiling.

 

With football being as globalised as it has been, coupled with the money available for even a club of our size thanks to the Premier League, there's a real opportunity there for clubs like us to sign players (like Mane, Toby, VVD and so on), who might not necessarily command the huge prices that the very top players go for, but simply aren't that far off their ability at all (and in some cases most definitely are at the same level, but just haven't been proven yet).

 

Similarly, football is still a team sport, and even with the money available, its impossible to guarantee that City or Chelsea's next bunch of star-signings will prove to gel and be a success. From time to time it'll all go wrong. Big-money flops are becoming more and more common whilst scouting networks permeate every corner of the globe - finding Kantes and Mahrezes for 500k before the market suddenly decides they're worth 60 times that as soon as they're proven.

 

Long story short - all it takes is for the stars to align one season and the likes of stable, well-run clubs like Saints really can and should at least hold on to the ambition to snap up a Europa League spot in the rare-but-eventual certainty that one or two of the Big 6 have a bad season.

 

It isn't too much to ask that we finish top half of the table, and win more than we lose. That's an achievable target for Saints. And there's nothing wrong with wanting the club to be in a position where, with a fair wind, we can actually snap up the league positions of bigger clubs over the course of one or two somewhat freakish seasons. Its just a matter of making sure we're ready to be there.

[whelk]

Signing young players who will improve is exactly what we've been doing. Our 3 major signings last summer were 20, 22 and 22 years old and our only signing this summer is 21. Yet people see them as downgrades on the likes of Pelle and Mane without taking their age and obvious potential into account at all.

 

At the same time they see Jack Stephens who is actually older than 3 out of the 4 players we signed (and only a couple of months younger than Boufal) as an up and coming young academy prospect. Same goes for Sam McQueen. There's a section of fans who seem to give these players a lot more latitude, because of their age, to make mistakes as they learn the game in the Premiership but the youngsters we buy in are expected to be seasoned pros from the moment we sign them.

 

Well said.

[whelk]

A footbll club is the fans. Anyone who hates the fans might as well support another club although he'd probably hate their fans too. These types usally hate footballers as well. I'm not sure it's just a football thing though. Some people are just misanthropes and don't really like anyone apart from themselves.

 

This is funny. Did you just want to use 'misanthropes'?

Free Love Freeway

Edited 19 July, 2017 by whelk