mrfahaji Posted 19 July, 2017 Posted 19 July, 2017 That's terrible, too big a gap between the back 6 and front 4. That team is what is known as broken team. https://arsenalcolumn.wordpress.com/2010/08/04/why-are-two-holding-midfielders-so-crucial-in-the-modern-game/ See particularly the part where Finke says the 2 defensive midfielders should be staggered, in this case both Romeu and Stephens would be naturally very deep, which is made worse by the all of the front 4 are really forwards as opposed to midfielders, by which I mean they are all more comfortable playing in the final third of the pitch rather than playmaking from deeper positions. We would therefore have a lot of difficulty constructing moves as we wouldn't have any natural links between defense and attack and would be very dependant on the full backs to provide those links. Yep, and we even tried to play this line up (though not with Stephens) a few times towards the end of the season with largely disastrous consequences. Totally lost control of the midfield as you would expect.
mrfahaji Posted 19 July, 2017 Posted 19 July, 2017 I like this too, or something like it. I want to see us try to use Gabbi and Austin together. This would give us our highest scoring potential. Plus I think they are different players. Austin is more physical, better in the air, and holds things up better. Gabbi is faster, quicker, and can stretch a D better. Agree, it could work. For those that saw him play in Italy, can't Gabbiadini also operate slightly deeper? Not sure how best to use him to a) drop deeper to pick up the ball and also b) play on the shoulder of the defence at the same time, but no reason it can't be mixed up a bit. Especially as Stephens and van Dijk would both be capable of pushing up into the midfield in this set up. Still missing that effective box to box midfielder though...
PeteCampbell Posted 27 July, 2017 Posted 27 July, 2017 I'd like to see Gabiiadini wide: Gabbi Austin Redmond JWP Romeu Davis Bertrand Stephens Bednerek Cedric Forster
Window Cleaner Posted 27 July, 2017 Posted 27 July, 2017 I'd like to see Gabiiadini wide: Gabbi Austin Redmond JWP Romeu Davis Bertrand Stephens Bednerek Cedric Forster How do you know Bednarek is better than Maya then ?
sandwichsaint Posted 27 July, 2017 Posted 27 July, 2017 On current personnel: ............. Forster .......... .... back 3 VVD/Yoshi/Stephens .... Cedric ... Romeu ... PEH (JWP) .... RB ....... Gabbi ....... Redmond ........ .............. Austin ................ Solid back three, our best two holding-mids, two of the best wide options in the league; starting with a combination of goals/mobility/pace/height in the front three. JWP prob should be in there somewhere but he's not really a holding/centre mid type player. Harsh on Tadic and Boufal but neither had particularly good seasons last season and shoving them both into the same line-up never seems to work. Keeper looks the glaring weakness in that line-up.
ALWAYS_SFC Posted 27 July, 2017 Posted 27 July, 2017 How do you know Bednarek is better than Maya then ? Same way people thought Caceres was better than Stephens
SKD Posted 27 July, 2017 Posted 27 July, 2017 Same way people thought Caceres was better than Stephens Completely different... Caceres has played as some of the biggest clubs in the world, Bednarek has played for pretty much no one and looked pretty average in the games I've seen. In honesty, we are still don't know if Caceres is better than Stephens as he had minimum game time with us.
ALWAYS_SFC Posted 27 July, 2017 Posted 27 July, 2017 Completely different... Caceres has played as some of the biggest clubs in the world, Bednarek has played for pretty much no one and looked pretty average in the games I've seen. In honesty, we are still don't know if Caceres is better than Stephens as he had minimum game time with us. Nope, people make their mind up based their gut feeling,prejudices and the players past
PeteCampbell Posted 27 July, 2017 Posted 27 July, 2017 Bednerek or Yoshi, I don't mind... as long as Stephens starts.
Nordic Saint Posted 27 July, 2017 Posted 27 July, 2017 Bednerek or Yoshi, I don't mind... as long as Stephens starts. In the first 19 games last season, in which Stephens played no part, we conceded 19 goals. In the 16 in which he started, we conceded 24. So, we went from conceding 1.0 goals per game without him, when posters on here were saying Fonte was having a poor season, to 1.5 with Stephens. A 50% increase in goals conceded! Obviously, a major cause of that was the absence of van Dijk. But, it just shows how poor our defence will be if we have to rely on Stephens and Yoshida this season.
Lighthouse Posted 27 July, 2017 Posted 27 July, 2017 Bednerek or Yoshi, I don't mind... as long as Stephens starts. He looked alright in a team which was at best 'cautious' last season. I haven't seen enough to be convinced by him and I especially wouldn't want a CB pairing with 17 senior apps between them.
SKD Posted 27 July, 2017 Posted 27 July, 2017 In the first 19 games last season, in which Stephens played no part, we conceded 19 goals. In the 16 in which he started, we conceded 24. So, we went from conceding 1.0 goals per game without him, when posters on here were saying Fonte was having a poor season, to 1.5 with Stephens. A 50% increase in goals conceded! Obviously, a major cause of that was the absence of van Dijk. But, it just shows how poor our defence will be if we have to rely on Stephens and Yoshida this season. I agree - I think Stephens done well when he come in, but he is massively overrated by many on here. I hope he goes on to prove me wrong, but if we don't sign 1 (2 is VvD goes), top level CB's, we will have weakened our defense considerably compared to this point last year.
mrfahaji Posted 27 July, 2017 Posted 27 July, 2017 (edited) In the first 19 games last season, in which Stephens played no part, we conceded 19 goals. In the 16 in which he started, we conceded 24. So, we went from conceding 1.0 goals per game without him, when posters on here were saying Fonte was having a poor season, to 1.5 with Stephens. A 50% increase in goals conceded! Obviously, a major cause of that was the absence of van Dijk. But, it just shows how poor our defence will be if we have to rely on Stephens and Yoshida this season. While I don't dispute the sentiment of your post, this is the trouble with using stats to prove your point. There are so many other variables, the fact that Stephens replaced van Dijk being the most obvious, that you can't rely on them to paint a true picture. I think someone used similar stats (obviously not the same ones!) to show how we weren't any better with VVD in the team than without, which is a quite ludicrous suggestion. Stephens has definitely got something about him which suggests he can cut it, but he doesn't seem very dominant in the air, and gets out of position too often at the moment. Clearly the latter he can learn and improve, harder with the former. He's excellent one-on-one with the ball on the ground though. I think Yoshida is better than him - a bit better in the air, quick, positioning - but he is also prone to being dragged out of position, which tends to happen when he plays alongside the inexperienced Stephens. Edited 27 July, 2017 by mrfahaji
mrfahaji Posted 27 July, 2017 Posted 27 July, 2017 (edited) Bednerek or Yoshi, I don't mind... as long as Stephens starts. Interesting to know your thoughts on why you'd pick him ahead of Yoshida. There's not much in it, but I'd go with Maya. What's more surprising is that while you seem so definite about Stephens' superiority, you also seem indifferent between Yoshida, a loyal (even if that word counts for very little) servant who stepped in excellently last season and arguably ended up playing better than Fonte was before he left, and Bednarek, a youngster who few have seen play yet, and by all accounts on the occasions people have seen him, he's looked a bit suspect! Edited 27 July, 2017 by mrfahaji
SaintTex Posted 27 July, 2017 Posted 27 July, 2017 .................Forster...................... Cedric...VvD...Yoshida...Bertrand. .......Stephens......Romeu............ Redmond.....Boufal........Tadic....... ...............Gabbiadini................. I like the above a lot, but I may be a bit more bullish on Clasie than most on here. .................Forster...................... Cedric...VvD...Stephens...Bertrand .......Clasie......Romeu................. Redmond.....Boufal........Tadic....... ...............Gabbiadini................... oh how I wish JWP could be more consistent on the pitch, as we miss him when he is not on to take set pieces. I would have high hopes that in this formation Tadic and Bertrand can rekindle that spark along the right side. When it is clicking, it is beautiful.
larry12 Posted 28 July, 2017 Posted 28 July, 2017 I like the above a lot, but I may be a bit more bullish on Clasie than most on here. .................Forster...................... Cedric...VvD...Stephens...Bertrand .......Clasie......Romeu................. Redmond.....Boufal........Tadic....... ...............Gabbiadini................... oh how I wish JWP could be more consistent on the pitch, as we miss him when he is not on to take set pieces. I would have high hopes that in this formation Tadic and Bertrand can rekindle that spark along the right side. When it is clicking, it is beautiful. Statisically, as JWP hasn't scored from a direct free kick, eveyone is as good as JWP at free kicks, Also, his corners don't produce assists. His so called free kick stupendioso is just an urban myth. Anyone can gain the same success statisically, as JWP if he is not on the pitch.
doddisalegend Posted 28 July, 2017 Posted 28 July, 2017 Statisically, as JWP hasn't scored from a direct free kick, eveyone is as good as JWP at free kicks, Also, his corners don't produce assists. His so called free kick stupendioso is just an urban myth. Anyone can gain the same success statisically, as JWP if he is not on the pitch. Pretty sure he scored one against WBA two seasons ago but yeah a lot is made of his set pieces when in reality the don't actually produce much. Lambert was far more productive at free kicks.
mrfahaji Posted 28 July, 2017 Posted 28 July, 2017 (edited) Pretty sure he scored one against WBA two seasons ago but yeah a lot is made of his set pieces when in reality the don't actually produce much. Lambert was far more productive at free kicks. His corners aren't bad and he 'whips in' quite a good free kick from wider positions. Another reason we don't score many from set pieces is that we don't have many threats in the air. van Dijk was one, and Austin is decent, but we missed both last season. Yoshida is ok but I see him as more of a secondary threat, someone who might get a chance because everyone is worried about someone else (i.e. VVD). Of course, it then begs the question, if we don't have many players to benefit from a good corner even we manage to deliver one, is the importance of set pieces overrated anyway, and therefore is JWP THAT valuable to us in that department? Edited 28 July, 2017 by mrfahaji
Manuel Posted 28 July, 2017 Posted 28 July, 2017 Of course, it then begs the question, if we don't have many players to benefit from a good corner even we manage to deliver one, is the important of set pieces overrated anyway, and therefore is JWP THAT valuable to us in that department? Was seeing this a lot last season. Cross after cross headed away by defenders. An ineffective strategy with the type, and stature, of players on the pitch.
sammysaint Posted 28 July, 2017 Posted 28 July, 2017 Forster Bertrand VVD Yoshida Cedric Romeu Davis Redmond Boufal Austin Gabba Tadic JWP and Long off the bench and given a lot of starts if players are underperforming in their relevant positions.
Nordic Saint Posted 28 July, 2017 Posted 28 July, 2017 Was seeing this a lot last season. Cross after cross headed away by defenders. An ineffective strategy with the type, and stature, of players on the pitch. JWP is excellent at sending in pinpoint crosses and corners to tall opposition defenders. He's almost as good at that as he is at placing free-kicks a yard high and wide of the goal.
mrfahaji Posted 29 July, 2017 Posted 29 July, 2017 JWP is excellent at sending in pinpoint crosses and corners to tall opposition defenders. He's almost as good at that as he is at placing free-kicks a yard high and wide of the goal. The good thing with having JWP on the pitch is we're guaranteed to nearly score from a free kick.
kjurwi Posted 29 July, 2017 Posted 29 July, 2017 I like the above a lot, but I may be a bit more bullish on Clasie than most on here. .................Forster...................... Cedric...VvD...Stephens...Bertrand .......Clasie......Romeu................. Redmond.....Boufal........Tadic....... ...............Gabbiadini................... oh how I wish JWP could be more consistent on the pitch, as we miss him when he is not on to take set pieces. I would have high hopes that in this formation Tadic and Bertrand can rekindle that spark along the right side. When it is clicking, it is beautiful. Agree. Could possibly swap Tadic for JWP. This is Clasies season to shine.
Causer Posted 29 July, 2017 Posted 29 July, 2017 JWP takes an excellent corner and wide free kick. Unfortunately other than VVD we have few targets for him to aim for, even VVD missed some sitters in the Europa League from JWP deliveries. If we had scored 3 or 4 of the chances JWP had created then everyone would be raving about him on here as one of the best players in the league. As it is people criticise his set piece delivery when really the problem is the finishing and general lack of height in the team. When JWP isn't playing their is a massive drop in quality of set pieces, Tadic normally overhits them and Davis lacks pace on his delivery.
Saint Matty 76 Posted 29 July, 2017 Posted 29 July, 2017 Hope he tries Austin and Gabbiadini together at some point during this pre-season. Pretty sure he played on the right quite often at Napoli so a three behind Austin of Gabbiadini - Boufal - Redmond sounds pretty fun.
bazza Posted 29 July, 2017 Posted 29 July, 2017 Forster Cedric VVD Yoshida Bertrand Romeu Hojbjerg Tadic Davis Redmond Gabbiadini Though Hojbjerg makes me feel queasy - we really need a DM/CM partner for Romeu. My thoughts entirely.
Avenue_Saint Posted 29 July, 2017 Posted 29 July, 2017 .....................Forster...................... Cedric.....VvD....Stephens...Bertrand .............Clasie......Romeu................. Redmond.....Boufal........Tadic..... .................Gabbiadini................... 2 players short. Replace Stephens with Sakho Replace Clasie with Krychowiak or Carvalho That would be some team
Avenue_Saint Posted 29 July, 2017 Posted 29 July, 2017 Agree. Could possibly swap Tadic for JWP. This is Clasies season to shine. Jwp doesn't have same level of talent Tadic has in his left foot.
suewhistle Posted 29 July, 2017 Posted 29 July, 2017 After today's friendly I haven't a clue.. Mind you, I don't think we've any players who will let us down - no, "Oh gawd, it's Lee Todd" moments.
Pilchards Posted 29 July, 2017 Posted 29 July, 2017 (edited) Thoughts so far after 3 per season matches. Austin is not a natural no 10, if only we could buy a class one. Peid pretty good going forward and not as good as Soares in defending. Taggart has done well so far. Boufal and Bertrand work well together. Not sure Clasie and Long will feature much when you only give them 15 minutes to impress today. Finally our defending can be shaky sometimes as they lack organizing and composure. Edited 29 July, 2017 by Pilchards
Son Of Eric The Red 2 Posted 30 July, 2017 Posted 30 July, 2017 My first choice team, Forster Cédric Yoshida van Dijk Bertrand Romeu Ward-Prowse Boufal Austin Redmond Gabbiadini
Batman Posted 30 July, 2017 Posted 30 July, 2017 desperately need a combative, mobile defensive midfielder
striker Posted 30 July, 2017 Posted 30 July, 2017 I think MP wants both Austin and Gabbi on the pitch together. He tried Austin behind Gabbi, now I hope he tries Gabbi behind Austin as the "10". I believe Gabbi has played that before in Italy.
WokingSaint Posted 30 July, 2017 Posted 30 July, 2017 In that formation Tadic & Bertrand are on the LEFT side?
PeteCampbell Posted 31 July, 2017 Posted 31 July, 2017 As I see it after the 3 friendlies so far: Forster Cedric - Stephens - Yoshida - Bertrand Romeu - Davis Redmond - JWP - Boufal Austin
kjurwi Posted 31 July, 2017 Posted 31 July, 2017 Jwp doesn't have same level of talent Tadic has in his left foot. Would swap sides between Redmond and Tadic/JWP.
Sidney Fudpucker the 3rd Posted 31 July, 2017 Posted 31 July, 2017 And here lies the problem. I don't think anybody knows our strongest starting 11 because we have too many average and inconsistent players in some positions. Back 4 pretty much picks itself. Other than Romeu, the rest is just guess work.
salisbury saints1 Posted 1 August, 2017 Posted 1 August, 2017 I like the above a lot, but I may be a bit more bullish on Clasie than most on here. .................Forster...................... Cedric...VvD...Stephens...Bertrand .......Clasie......Romeu................. Redmond.....Boufal........Tadic....... ...............Gabbiadini................... oh how I wish JWP could be more consistent on the pitch, as we miss him when he is not on to take set pieces. I would have high hopes that in this formation Tadic and Bertrand can rekindle that spark along the right side. When it is clicking, it is beautiful. Who takes the pens if JWP and Austin are not on the pitch?
mrfahaji Posted 1 August, 2017 Posted 1 August, 2017 Who takes the pens if JWP and Austin are not on the pitch? Gabbiadini. I'm not prepared to write him off because he missed one. I've just watched it again and it's a pretty good save from Romero. Obviously if he misses any more then we might have to question it. Bertrand has also taken one and scored.
verlaine1979 Posted 1 August, 2017 Posted 1 August, 2017 No point having Hojbjerg if he doesn't get games. There's a very good player in there and I wouldn't write anyone off based on how they played under Puel to be honest. I'd start the season like this: Forster Cedric VVD Stephens Bertrand Romeu Hojbjerg JWP Boufal Redmond Gabbiadini 3 behind Gabbiadini can be pretty flexible and rotate. Tadic can compete with Redmond and Boufal, they'll all get plenty of games. This works for me, though I'd probably swap JWP to the middle of the attacking midfield three. As the most creative player in that lineup, Boufal should be encouraged to play from his position rather than rigidly stick to the wing, much like Hazard does at Chelsea.
mrfahaji Posted 1 August, 2017 Posted 1 August, 2017 This works for me, though I'd probably swap JWP to the middle of the attacking midfield three. As the most creative player in that lineup, Boufal should be encouraged to play from his position rather than rigidly stick to the wing, much like Hazard does at Chelsea. What, you wouldn't have Davis in your starting XI?
austsaint Posted 1 August, 2017 Posted 1 August, 2017 This works for me, though I'd probably swap JWP to the middle of the attacking midfield three. As the most creative player in that lineup, Boufal should be encouraged to play from his position rather than rigidly stick to the wing, much like Hazard does at Chelsea. Verlaine....you've forgotten Davis; surely the first midfielder on your team sheet given the wraps you've given him these last 3-4 seasons. Eventually you'll be proved right of course because age is starting to become a factor. I'm surprised how many people have Ward-Prowse as either the DM partner for Romeu or as the middle of an attacking three - I'd be interested in what they've seen in his game to think he can play in those positions.
SaintTex Posted 5 August, 2017 Posted 5 August, 2017 --------------Forster--------------- Cedric--VVD--Stephens--Bertrand ---------Romeu-----Lemina-------- --Redmond---Boufal-----Tadic----- ---------------Gabbi---------------- get a £20m/£25m rated CB in place of Stephens and that is a pretty strong line-up. i know, living in a dream world.
The Cat Posted 5 August, 2017 Posted 5 August, 2017 --------------Forster--------------- Cedric--VVD--Stephens--Bertrand ---------Romeu-----Lemina-------- --Redmond---Boufal-----Tadic----- ---------------Gabbi---------------- get a £20m/£25m rated CB in place of Stephens and that is a pretty strong line-up. i know, living in a dream world. It looks pretty strong with Stephens. Seems to be a lot of people hoping we buy someone to play instead of him when in fact it's surely better to keep him in the team and keep developing him.
Cartman Posted 5 August, 2017 Posted 5 August, 2017 --------------Forster--------------- Cedric--VVD--Stephens--Bertrand ---------Romeu-----Lemina-------- --Redmond---Boufal-----Tadic----- ---------------Gabbi---------------- get a £20m/£25m rated CB in place of Stephens and that is a pretty strong line-up. i know, living in a dream world. Ward-Prowse over Tadic and into the middle, move Boufal wide. Would look so much better with a new goalkeeper, is it really to much to ask? We seem to have a weird blind spot towards that position, we are the club that thought it was a good idea to go into a premier league season with 90 year old Kelvin and an 9 year old Gazza as our goalkeepers.
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