How important is our next managerial Appointment?

[Saint Billy]

This has been mentioned a few times on here but i have yet to read any real justification of these claims, can you enlighten me ?

 

You can't handle the truth!

[Pilchards]

Let's be honest, we're not a *much* bigger club than either of those. A bit bigger, sure, but if you're in a stable job at a club who are £95% funded by tv money, just like us, it's hardly a case of 'when Saints come calling...'

 

If I walked into St Mary's and our training campus compared to Bournemouth/Burnley I would see a mega difference.

[the saint in winchester]

So .... are we ready to eat humble pie and ask Claude Puel if he would like his job back (as long as he returns the severance pay)?

[CB Fry]

So .... are we ready to eat humble pie and ask Claude Puel if he would like his job back (as long as he returns the severance pay)?

Three days with a vacancy is long enough to admit defeat, yeah. We've blown it.

[angelman]

CB, you have to admit, we need a manager in place so that he can make some signings to replace all those players that we have sold so far. However are we going to compete otherwise?

[Redslo]

Never hurt Sunderland

 

One could argue that Sunderland's problem was not the changing managers, but the fact that each new manager was allowed (or required) to do everything all over again. There was no continuity from year to year imposed by the upper management or ownership of the club. We don't have that problem.

 

If you get rid of Reed,you lose all those ridiculous restrictions and free the club to get a proper manager in who is allowed to manage. As long as Reed is allowed to do it "HIS" way, we will carry on downhill.

And yes we do have an average squad. Megalomaniac Reed thinks he is the most important person at the club. Kat is and the next one should be the manager.

 

I don't see the restrictions as ridiculous, just realistic and sensible. To suggest that Reed stops managers from managing is nonsense. To suggest that we are on a downhill path is more nonsense. We have had one slightly off year in the past eight. Sure it could be the beginning of a downhill slide, but there is no more reason to think that than to think the drop in temperature in 1999 was the end of global warming. (Ok I am overstating things. The end of global warming is, alas, less likely than a relegation battle for us.)

 

I am truly puzzled by Reed's critics. I simply cannot see what he has done wrong. I don't mean that he has made no mistake but everyone makes mistakes. Overall he had done very well for the club and replacing him would be far harder than replacing a manager. The worst think we could do is turn over recruitment to a new manager and have to get rid of his personal players when, inevitably, he leaves and yet another new manager comes in.

 

Unless someone is really desperate for a managerial job no matter what ala Giggs, no decent manager is going to sign up to the demands, rules and regs of Reed which is probably why we ended up with Puel.

 

Except that we do not need what is normally though of as a decent manager. We provide the recruitment expertise and an in-place quality coaching staff. Our requirements (and actual needs) for a manager are not the same as the requirements at, for example, Everton or Manchester United.

 

Reed is of course the problem, can you imagine top class coaches being interviewed by him? For a start most top coaches are probably twice as bright and canny as him and would probably cringe at the low level of thinking that seems to go on here. As others have said Puel is probably as good as we can expect.

 

Right now what you consider top class coaches would not work here so that doesn't matter. But I doubt anyone if football is really twice as bright as Reed. I am not sure canniness is really a quality you want from a manager unless you mean tactical canniness which is not something we need in Reed. Mainly, this is just more nonsensical criticism of Reed based upon a detachment from reality. (Your detachment, not Reed's.)

 

Many would argue that these restrictions allow us to keep progressing solidly even though managers/players come and go, it means a manager can't come in and completely screw the club over.

 

You only have to look at the multiple signings out there clubs are lumbered with because a certain manager wanted them and then he fcks up leaving them lumbered with a donkey, to see why clubs generally don't let one person make signings or control the club from top to bottom anymore.

 

Even the likes of Conte doesn't have full control over signings.

 

Exactly.

[Dalek2003]

Burnley and Bournemouth is not a sideway step.

We are a much bigger club plus more of an attraction for better players.

 

Nope, they have risen in the footballing world and we have declined. They are near rivals.

[verlaine1979]

If I walked into St Mary's and our training campus compared to Bournemouth/Burnley I would see a mega difference.

 

Like I said, we're a bit bigger and better resourced than those clubs, but would it be enough to make a comfortable and established manager switch to us? I suspect we'd have to sweeten the pot a great deal and that our history and standing would hardly factor into the decision at all.

[SW5 SAINT]

Never hurt Sunderland

 

I think it finally caught up with them..........

[ALWAYS_SFC]

You can't handle the truth!

 

You never post any

[Saint Billy]

You never post any

 

Prove it, or are you too busy rubbishing everyone elses comments on here again?.

 

10,000 post count and hardly one with your own opinion............sad!.

[ALWAYS_SFC]

You can't handle the truth!

 

You never post any

 

Prove it, or are you too busy rubbishing everyone elses comments on here again?.

 

10,000 post count and hardly one with your own opinion............sad!.

 

No real clarification then? thought not......... Just agenda driven bluster

[Saint Billy]

No real clarification then? thought not......... Just agenda driven bluster

 

Did you not read Glasgows link?.

 

This is common knowledge, so if you want to argue the toss do it with your own shadow as I have a life to live.

[Saint Billy]

Just a few little snippets from the past:

 

Saints director Les Reed has taken the unusual step of addressing the media before Mauricio Pochettino's weekly pre-match press match conference to try and quell speculation.

 

Reed, who confirmed he is charge of all football matters at Saints and consults daily with Pochettino, insisted that the club had received no offers for any players, and did not intend a firesale this summer.

 

Another:

 

Southampton FC are certainly not enjoying much luck at the moment, after having just recently confirmed that Ronald Koeman would become the clubs new manager it seems things have turned pear shape already. Unbeknown to many at Southampton Koeman had a clause in his contract allowing him to leave the club if he didn't have full control of the clubs operation. It has come to light through a source within the club that Koeman and Director of Football Les Reed argued on many occasions during meetings. Koeman seemed to believe that Reed was over stepping his boundries and encroaching Koemans role as manager.

 

The source added that in the latest meeting involving some club directors and the clubs current owner Katharina Liebherr both men had to be pulled apart. Again Reed had been overstepping his mark trying to persuade those present which players the club should further attempt to purchase in the Transfer Window. Koeman was less than impressed with the players suggested and blew his lid when the directors and Liebherr did not back him in dismissing Reed's suggestions. Reed seemed to antagonise Koeman and in a childlike manner even smirked as the board seemed to take his suggestions on board. Koeman who has made some signings this Transfer Window felt that he was being undermined by Reed and that he was purposely trying to make things difficult for him.

 

This meeting would prove to be Koemans last as he grabbed his possessions, marched up to Katharina Liebherr's office and terminated his contract with immediate effect stating that promises over control of first team and transfers had not been fulfilled as he had been told that they would be when he joined the club only a matter of weeks ago.

 

 

So things seem to be going from bad to worse for the Saints who have already lost a whole host of personnel recently. Mauricio Pochettino left to join Tottenham Hotspur after a fine season in charge of the Saints guiding them to 8th in the Premier League. Following him to Spurs was the clubs assistant manager Jesús Perez. A whole host of players have left the club too. Club captain and Southampton icon Adam Lallana left for Liverpool along with Dejan Lovren and well loved Rickie Lambert. Callum Chambers left for Arsenal and Luke Shaw departed for Manchester United. Dani Osvaldo left on loan to Inter after becoming a hinderence rather than a positive for the club.

 

Another:

 

When managers are appointed usually they want lots of changes. They want to bring their own staff, they want money to spend. If you go down that route you are putting everything you have built at risk.

 

"Our manager is a coach. The process is, 'are we the right fit for you, are you the right fit for us?' That is why it goes through several stages."

[Crab Lungs]

And that's why he's a helmet.

[ALWAYS_SFC]

S

Did you not read Glasgows link?.

 

This is common knowledge, so if you want to argue the toss do it with your own shadow as I have a life to live.

 

I try to avoid that idiot in regard to this subject as he​ has and agenda regarding Reed too?

[revolution saint]

I'd be interested to hear what answer Les would give to this question. Arguably this is his most important decision if the takeover goes through - he'll be judged on this by people who may not be quite as forgiving as Kat or have the same vision for the club. I wonder if this makes him more risk adverse or less?

[saintmatt]

Most will always think the next appointment is the most important

 

Imo it was more important to get the Koeman one right given the poch/cortese/player exodus

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Fan The Flames]

The anti Les movement is Southamptons own Brexit, people really think we would be so better off without him, when in truth the best we would be is exactly the same. You are all Lincolnshire village idiots who have swallowed the bull**** of the loudest bloke in the pub.

[Saint_Ash]

The anti Les movement is Southamptons own Brexit, people really think we would be so better off without him, when in truth the best we would be is exactly the same. You are all Lincolnshire village idiots who have swallowed the bull**** of the loudest bloke in the pub.

 

true.

[Saint Billy]

I repeat what I said yesterday.

 

"Unless someone is really desperate for a managerial job no matter what ala Giggs, no decent manager is going to sign up to the demands, rules and regs of Reed which is probably why we ended up with Puel".

 

This opinion does not represent an anti Les movement as I believe alot of what he does has value, but just to make it easier for those who are somewhat governed by the belief that everything saints is perfect, We will not get a decent manager under the terms of Les. Either Les relaxes them or we end up with another short term manager. Remember, Reed hired and fired Puel!.

[CB Fry]

I repeat what I said yesterday.

 

"Unless someone is really desperate for a managerial job no matter what ala Giggs, no decent manager is going to sign up to the demands, rules and regs of Reed which is probably why we ended up with Puel".

 

This opinion does not represent an anti Les movement as I believe alot of what he does has value, but just to make it easier for those who are somewhat governed by the belief that everything saints is perfect, We will not get a decent manager under the terms of Les. Either Les relaxes them or we end up with another short term manager. Remember, Reed hired and fired Puel!.

Koeman not a decent manager then?

[angelman]

St Billy, can you humour me and list what these "demands, rules and regs of Reed" actually are? To make the statement that you have that no decent manager is going to sign up to them, I am sort of presuming you know what they are. Or is that hoping for too much?

[Saint Billy]

Koeman not a decent manager then?

 

Great manager.

[Saint Billy]

St Billy, can you humour me and list what these "demands, rules and regs of Reed" actually are? To make the statement that you have that no decent manager is going to sign up to them, I am sort of presuming you know what they are. Or is that hoping for too much?

 

Post 64 as you've obviously missed it.

[shurlock]

Koeman not a decent manager then?

 

That's not necessarily inconsistent with what Saint Billy says.

 

Koeman ultimately had plenty of autonomy and say over signings - far more than the 'Southampton Way' sales pitch would imply. And if reports are to be believed he bristled whenever Uncle Les did try to get involved, notably over playing youngsters.

[angelman]

Post 64 as you've obviously missed it.

 

Nope, all I see in post 64 is the "executive director of football" and one of the four board members having a say in recruitment. Added to that is the hearsay. If anyone is stupid enough to seriously think managers have 100% say on transfers then they better get a reality check. Obviously I am having difficulty with the demands, rules and regs bit, so maybe you could just list them again?

[Saint Billy]

Nope, all I see in post 64 is the "executive director of football" and one of the four board members having a say in recruitment. Added to that is the hearsay. If anyone is stupid enough to seriously think managers have 100% say on transfers then they better get a reality check. Obviously I am having difficulty with the demands, rules and regs bit, so maybe you could just list them again?

 

Wow, did I say managers should have 100% say?.

 

Btw, I noticed your tune changed over the course of the season so don't get all sanctimonious with me.

 

I am not going to go through it again, if you choose to gloss over it taking only the bits you want to hear thats your problem.

[Heisenberg]

Wow, did I say managers should have 100% say?.

 

Btw, I noticed your tune changed over the course of the season so don't get all sanctimonious with me.

 

I am not going to go through it again, if you choose to gloss over it taking only the bits you want to hear thats your problem.

 

Youll be added to his ignore list soon!!

 

Some peeps cannie handle the truth mate.

[CB Fry]

That's not necessarily inconsistent with what Saint Billy says.

 

Koeman ultimately had plenty of autonomy and say over signings - far more than the 'Southampton Way' sales pitch would imply. And if reports are to be believed he bristled whenever Uncle Les did try to get involved, notably over playing youngsters.

 

But Les still employed him and it worked perfectly well (very well) for two years. And we offered him an extension.

 

Koeman not a yes man, Les Reed employed him. But still we get this "Les only wants a yes man" bunch of arse.

 

We will see whether this megalomania and rules and regs and all the rest of it is actually true or just the half-baked projections of people that have never liked him and never want to like him. I expect the next manager will be another one straight out if the quivering, gutless shrinking violet production line like Alan Pardew and Ronald Koeman.

 

Lastly, I think the Venn diagram of "People that despise and want rid of what they see as controlling/singlemindedness/rigid vision of Les Reed" versus "People that swoon over and wish they could have back the controlling/singlemindedness/rigid vision of Nicola Cortese" I reckon Saint Billy and co would be bang on the intersection. Odd, ain't it.

[Heisenberg]

Does annoy me that people say Nicola Cortese was controlling and single-minded and rigid without ANY proof.

 

Just seems very agenda driven to me.

[CB Fry]

Does annoy me that people say Nicola Cortese was controlling and single-minded and rigid without ANY proof.

 

Just seems very agenda driven to me.

I certainly wouldn't ever say that.

 

All I say is he was a fine chairman but he found his level, which was the Championship. The Neil Warnock of football administrators.

[Nordic Saint]

Just a few little snippets from the past:

 

Saints director Les Reed has taken the unusual step of addressing the media before Mauricio Pochettino's weekly pre-match press match conference to try and quell speculation.

 

Reed, who confirmed he is charge of all football matters at Saints and consults daily with Pochettino, insisted that the club had received no offers for any players, and did not intend a firesale this summer.

 

Another:

 

Southampton FC are certainly not enjoying much luck at the moment, after having just recently confirmed that Ronald Koeman would become the clubs new manager it seems things have turned pear shape already. Unbeknown to many at Southampton Koeman had a clause in his contract allowing him to leave the club if he didn't have full control of the clubs operation. It has come to light through a source within the club that Koeman and Director of Football Les Reed argued on many occasions during meetings. Koeman seemed to believe that Reed was over stepping his boundries and encroaching Koemans role as manager.

 

The source added that in the latest meeting involving some club directors and the clubs current owner Katharina Liebherr both men had to be pulled apart. Again Reed had been overstepping his mark trying to persuade those present which players the club should further attempt to purchase in the Transfer Window. Koeman was less than impressed with the players suggested and blew his lid when the directors and Liebherr did not back him in dismissing Reed's suggestions. Reed seemed to antagonise Koeman and in a childlike manner even smirked as the board seemed to take his suggestions on board. Koeman who has made some signings this Transfer Window felt that he was being undermined by Reed and that he was purposely trying to make things difficult for him.

 

This meeting would prove to be Koemans last as he grabbed his possessions, marched up to Katharina Liebherr's office and terminated his contract with immediate effect stating that promises over control of first team and transfers had not been fulfilled as he had been told that they would be when he joined the club only a matter of weeks ago.

 

 

So things seem to be going from bad to worse for the Saints who have already lost a whole host of personnel recently. Mauricio Pochettino left to join Tottenham Hotspur after a fine season in charge of the Saints guiding them to 8th in the Premier League. Following him to Spurs was the clubs assistant manager Jesús Perez. A whole host of players have left the club too. Club captain and Southampton icon Adam Lallana left for Liverpool along with Dejan Lovren and well loved Rickie Lambert. Callum Chambers left for Arsenal and Luke Shaw departed for Manchester United. Dani Osvaldo left on loan to Inter after becoming a hinderence rather than a positive for the club.

 

Another:

 

When managers are appointed usually they want lots of changes. They want to bring their own staff, they want money to spend. If you go down that route you are putting everything you have built at risk.

 

"Our manager is a coach. The process is, 'are we the right fit for you, are you the right fit for us?' That is why it goes through several stages."

 

He really is a very unpleasant old man. No wonder everybody leaves.

[Saint Billy]

Youll be added to his ignore list soon!!

 

Some peeps cannie handle the truth mate.

 

Probably, that's what happens when you oppose the god squad on here.

[Heisenberg]

Im sensing a new Leslie motivational youtube video any day.

 

[Saint in Paradise]

You never post any

 

Ok well as you like to tell everyone that people who post bad things about Les Reed are making it up and

have no proof why can't you supply any proof that in fact they are incorrect????

 

Just because you, and to be fair a couple of others, shout and moan that "the detractors" are wrong will not

alter the fact that you can't prove it.

 

[Saint Billy]

But Les still employed him and it worked perfectly well (very well) for two years. And we offered him an extension.

 

Koeman not a yes man, Les Reed employed him. But still we get this "Les only wants a yes man" bunch of arse.

 

We will see whether this megalomania and rules and regs and all the rest of it is actually true or just the half-baked projections of people that have never liked him and never want to like him. I expect the next manager will be another one straight out if the quivering, gutless shrinking violet production line like Alan Pardew and Ronald Koeman.

 

Lastly, I think the Venn diagram of "People that despise and want rid of what they see as controlling/singlemindedness/rigid vision of Les Reed" versus "People that swoon over and wish they could have back the controlling/singlemindedness/rigid vision of Nicola Cortese" I reckon Saint Billy and co would be bang on the intersection. Odd, ain't it.

 

I don't actually dislike Reed nor did I dislike the Don although he did make some strange gaffs with the media etc. Just because some on here are asking for Reeds head don't tar me with the same brush. What does concern me is that most decent managers will not join saints just as a coach, and from the bits and pieces I've read in the media over the last couple of years or so this is exactly what Reed wants, and frankly, this is one of the reasons why Koeman left.

[Gemmel]

Wow, did I say managers should have 100% say?.

 

Btw, I noticed your tune changed over the course of the season so don't get all sanctimonious with me.

 

I am not going to go through it again, if you choose to gloss over it taking only the bits you want to hear thats your problem.

 

Let's talk about glossing over things.

 

Les Reed has the most successful, Director Of Football CV for a club of our size, probably in the world. You've ignore that statement once - Can we go for a double.

[Saint_Ash]

He really is a very unpleasant old man. No wonder everybody leaves.

 

Have you ever met him? By all accounts from people who have met and worked with him he is really nice. Tell me if the instances he's been very unpleasant.

[angelman]

Wow, did I say managers should have 100% say?.

 

Btw, I noticed your tune changed over the course of the season so don't get all sanctimonious with me.

 

I am not going to go through it again, if you choose to gloss over it taking only the bits you want to hear thats your problem.

 

Yes, post 64 says exactly that (esp the bit about Saints fans not knowing about that clause in his contract where RK was supposedly having full control). That is based on hearsay and actually is stating that a member of the board is having some control on signings. Not sure how that can be construed to be a bad thing. Whether he had too much control on things is a matter of opinion, and if what is in #64 is correct, then it seems that Koeman had a different opinion to Reed. But also, if it is all correct, then Reed has done a pretty good job seeing as his recruits (players and managers) in the past have finished 8/7/6th, wouldn't you say?

 

As for the rest, no idea what you are on about saying I have changed my tune, and the accusations of sanctimony is nothing but straw man.

[Heisenberg]

Have you ever met him? By all accounts from people who have met and worked with him he is really nice. Tell me if the instances he's been very unpleasant.

 

Steven Gerrard loves him

[Gemmel]

 

Apart from Adkins, Poch & koeman :lol::lol:

[Saint Billy]

Let's talk about glossing over things.

 

Les Reed has the most successful, Director Of Football CV for a club of our size, probably in the world. You've ignore that statement once - Can we go for a double.

 

Who made that statement for me to ignore?.

 

I think he's done a good job overall.

[Gemmel]

Who made that statement for me to ignore?.

 

I think he's done a good job overall.

 

My apologies, I thought it was you that ducked that statement last week.

[CB Fry]

I don't actually dislike Reed nor did I dislike the Don although he did make some strange gaffs with the media etc. Just because some on here are asking for Reeds head don't tar me with the same brush. What does concern me is that most decent managers will not join saints just as a coach, and from the bits and pieces I've read in the media over the last couple of years or so this is exactly what Reed wants, and frankly, this is one of the reasons why Koeman left.

Except we have had a very, very consistent run of excellent managerial appointments, so good that 8th place and a cup final is now considered a failure, which history will judge as being perfectly fine.

 

Personally I have no interest in us employing some big name high profile manager who gets to control everything because they won't be here any longer than the "coach" type appointment you seem to object to.

 

We employ Pellegrini or LVG or whoever this "decent" manager you are thinking of and you give them total control of anything and everything they want. Great. They will be gone within two years either through success or failure. Meaning we end up perpetually starting over and over again and each "decent" manager turns everything up and down. Not sure how that is going to deliver better than 8, 7, 6, 8 and two Euro qualifications. Why do you think this would be better, and how much better would this approach be over a five-ten year period, not just the "I wish we'd employ X manager" short-term view.

 

But the bit I don't get is the biggest clubs in the world have "coach" managers embedded in their structures and the biggest managers in the world are very used to working in "coach" situations with layers of directors with huge influence on sporting strategy and player recruitment. And lastly, Southampton have recruited a run of "decent" managers under the very director you say "decent" managers won't work for.

 

All quite odd.

Edited 17 June, 2017 by CB Fry

[angelman]

Well, some good news (if true, which I think we all hope it is)....http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-4614178/Southampton-not-want-Ryan-Giggs-new-manager.html

 

CB ^ this was very much in evidence at Sunderland, new manager bringing in a new squad every 2 seconds, and is one of the reasons that they failed so badly.

Edited 17 June, 2017 by angelman

[Saint Billy]

Well, some good news (if true, which I think we all hope it is)....http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-4614178/Southampton-not-want-Ryan-Giggs-new-manager.html

 

CB ^ this was very much in evidence at Sunderland, new manager bringing in a new squad every 2 seconds, and is one of the reasons that they failed so badly.

 

Well at least we agree on Giggs.

[angelman]

I'll drink to that.

 

He might well turn out to be brilliant, but why he is not looking at the lower leagues is anyone's guess. Maybe the 4 games in charge post LVG has got him thinking he can do it at the top and that clubs will be willing to give him the job. Then again, maybe it is only the papers pushing this angle. Who knows? But if he is serious about management, surely he must get the message soon that PL clubs aren't going to take the chance at this stage of his career.

[Cartman]

This notion that no one good will want to come here to "just" be a head coach subordinate to a DoF is bizarre. Most coaches in continental europe have never known any other way of working and in fact would not welcome the extra responsibility of dealing with things they have never dealt with before, distracting them from what they are truly good at. It makes no sense, you could hire the best coach in the world but if you then give him responsibility over recruitment of players or staff, not only might he not be very good at that but he could be spending that time on actual coaching, planning sessions for the whole team or individual players to improve them, analysis of opponents, any number of things. And european coaches know this and often want nothing to do with what they consider to be a DoF's responsibility.

The "full control over all football matters" british manager is the real anomaly, on the continent it is very rare. American sports also have a General Manager/Head Coach separation of responsibilities with very few exceptions.

[Redslo]

This notion that no one good will want to come here to "just" be a head coach subordinate to a DoF is bizarre. Most coaches in continental europe have never known any other way of working and in fact would not welcome the extra responsibility of dealing with things they have never dealt with before, distracting them from what they are truly good at. It makes no sense, you could hire the best coach in the world but if you then give him responsibility over recruitment of players or staff, not only might he not be very good at that but he could be spending that time on actual coaching, planning sessions for the whole team or individual players to improve them, analysis of opponents, any number of things. And european coaches know this and often want nothing to do with what they consider to be a DoF's responsibility.

The "full control over all football matters" british manager is the real anomaly, on the continent it is very rare. American sports also have a General Manager/Head Coach separation of responsibilities with very few exceptions.

 

I would be surprised if you could name any actually exceptions right now.