CB Fry Posted 16 June, 2017 Share Posted 16 June, 2017 Tragic accident = rioting for ansewers Tragic terrorist attack = candles and "buisness as usual" i dont get this country At least you got the riots you've be willing to happen for weeks. Look at dem Corbynistas rioting. I told ya I told ya I told ya. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonnyboy Posted 16 June, 2017 Share Posted 16 June, 2017 Shame you're not running the Labour Party then Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Political leader in doing their job shocker! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonnyboy Posted 16 June, 2017 Share Posted 16 June, 2017 At least you got the riots you've be willing to happen for weeks. Look at dem Corbynistas rioting. I told ya I told ya I told ya. Because the EDL didn't have a charming march round Manchester recently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonnyboy Posted 16 June, 2017 Share Posted 16 June, 2017 I don't know about you lot, but if my fridge exploded and set fire to my kitchen, my first thought would probably not be to pack a suitcase and bag up my designer gear... We know. You'd be outside ranting and blaming Brown people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitey Grandad Posted 16 June, 2017 Share Posted 16 June, 2017 Shame you're not running the Labour Party then Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk If I were I'd be Prime Minister now ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sour Mash Posted 16 June, 2017 Share Posted 16 June, 2017 Tragic accident = rioting for ansewers Tragic terrorist attack = candles and "buisness as usual" i dont get this country Agreed. The left are a bitter, confused mess at the moment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batman Posted 16 June, 2017 Share Posted 16 June, 2017 Agreed. The left are a bitter, confused mess at the moment. quite weird leftys are making a huge play on this tradegy. egging people on ironically, it appears the European Court of human rights makes it illegal for the government to take control of private dwellings to house other people Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Duckhunter Posted 16 June, 2017 Share Posted 16 June, 2017 Political leader in doing their job shocker! That's not their job in the hours following a disaster. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batman Posted 16 June, 2017 Share Posted 16 June, 2017 imagine if this was said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonnyboy Posted 16 June, 2017 Share Posted 16 June, 2017 quite weird leftys are making a huge play on this tradegy. egging people on ironically, it appears the European Court of human rights makes it illegal for the government to take control of private dwellings to house other people What is it about kippers that makes them love their country so much that they lose the ability to spell the words of their native language? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jawillwill Posted 17 June, 2017 Share Posted 17 June, 2017 Every time I think Batman can't possibly sound like more of a stupid bell-end than he already is, he makes himself sound like an even stupider ****ing bellend with his very next post. It is actually quite impressive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batman Posted 17 June, 2017 Share Posted 17 June, 2017 (edited) Every time I think Batman can't possibly sound like more of a stupid bell-end than he already is, he makes himself sound like an even stupider ****ing bellend with his very next post. It is actually quite impressive. cheers mate xxx http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-4612718/DAILY-MAIL-COMMENT-Shame-playing-politics-tragedy.html Edited 17 June, 2017 by Batman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sour Mash Posted 17 June, 2017 Share Posted 17 June, 2017 What is it about kippers that makes them love their country so much that they lose the ability to spell the words of their native language? Every time I think Batman can't possibly sound like more of a stupid bell-end than he already is, he makes himself sound like an even stupider ****ing bellend with his very next post. It is actually quite impressive. cheers mate xxx http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-4612718/DAILY-MAIL-COMMENT-Shame-playing-politics-tragedy.html It's the way the left works these days. Stumped for an answer? Then just resort to abuse. A clear sign of an argument lost. Richard Suchet's twitter account showing a mob attacking a cameraman, egged on by masked supporters, not 100% clear how reliable he is though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shurlock Posted 17 June, 2017 Share Posted 17 June, 2017 Pretending that in some way that people in London aren't angry over Grenfell Towers - Muddying matters by singling out the role of a handful of professional activists - Claiming that any discussion of the possible causes of the fire is politicising things - Keep up the good work, lads. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buctootim Posted 17 June, 2017 Share Posted 17 June, 2017 Pretending that in some way that people in London aren't angry over Grenfell Towers - Muddying matters by singling out the role of a handful of professional activists - Claiming that any discussion of the possible causes of the fire is politicising things - Keep up the good work, lads. Dont forget GM's original: Its their own fault for being drug dealers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hypochondriac Posted 17 June, 2017 Share Posted 17 June, 2017 Pretending that in some way that people in London aren't angry over Grenfell Towers - [emoji106] Muddying matters by singling out the role of a handful of professional activists - [emoji106] Claiming that any discussion of the possible causes of the fire is politicising things - [emoji106] Keep up the good work, lads. So I guess you haven't seen the likes of Owen Jones tweeting the location of the prime minister and encouraging everyone to go and find her to hurl abuse? (yes I know he used the word peacefully buy he knows exactly what he is doing when he says things like that.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
do i not like fizzy pop Posted 17 June, 2017 Share Posted 17 June, 2017 At the risk of moving away from the political sniping on here and while waiting for my 24hr 3 post embargo to expire the thing that's been troubling me is this figure of £200/£300k that's being bandied around for the cost of retro fitting sprinklers in similar tower blocks. In a previous life I bought sprinkler systems for a large retailer and while the primary design of our systems was the protection of property and asset, for a 40,000m2 store new build the cost was between £550-£600k. This was a build with largely straight unhindered runs, very few wall penetration, would require fewer heads than a tower block of that size and was using fully compliant and certified manufacturers and installers to LPS standards. Also we had to have a huge water tank as you can't rely on mains pressure to feed the system. This has potentially enormous structural considerations to an old building Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ecuk268 Posted 17 June, 2017 Share Posted 17 June, 2017 At the risk of moving away from the political sniping on here and while waiting for my 24hr 3 post embargo to expire the thing that's been troubling me is this figure of £200/£300k that's being bandied around for the cost of retro fitting sprinklers in similar tower blocks. In a previous life I bought sprinkler systems for a large retailer and while the primary design of our systems was the protection of property and asset, for a 40,000m2 store new build the cost was between £550-£600k. This was a build with largely straight unhindered runs, very few wall penetration, would require fewer heads than a tower block of that size and was using fully compliant and certified manufacturers and installers to LPS standards. Also we had to have a huge water tank as you can't rely on mains pressure to feed the system. This has potentially enormous structural considerations to an old building There was a guy on Radio 4 this morning from a company that fits sprinkler systems worldwide. He said that the numbers being bandied about in the press are for the hardware only. When you look at retro fitting them, the cost is very much higher. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Window Cleaner Posted 17 June, 2017 Share Posted 17 June, 2017 There was a guy on Radio 4 this morning from a company that fits sprinkler systems worldwide. He said that the numbers being bandied about in the press are for the hardware only. When you look at retro fitting them, the cost is very much higher. Still why let details like that get in the way of a bit of Council/Government bashing. I have been reading about the couple of Italian Architects who came to Britain to get the sort of salary they couldn't get in Italy, sad isn't it. Still amazes me that they could get a council flat though or have waiting lists just faded away these last years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batman Posted 17 June, 2017 Share Posted 17 June, 2017 (edited) So I guess you haven't seen the likes of Owen Jones tweeting the location of the prime minister and encouraging everyone to go and find her to hurl abuse? (yes I know he used the word peacefully buy he knows exactly what he is doing when he says things like that.) residents have been heard saying people are now hijacking the tradegy to protest and are completely unhelpful. The cartoonish hawking of this horrible tragedy as some anti-tory crusade is pretty poor to be honest. Not going to change the result of the election as Labour still (by some distance) lost Edited 17 June, 2017 by Batman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hutch Posted 17 June, 2017 Share Posted 17 June, 2017 You have to question the wisdom of the likes of the BBC publishing articles claiming that the block could have been fitted with sprinklers for £138,000 without any attempt at proper verification. Consultancy fees alone would be far in excess of that before you bought a single piece of pipe. How much does a certified fire pump cost these days? And the standby pump in case the first one is out of service for maintenance? And the dedicated power supply to the pumps? And the standby power supply in case of a power failure during a fire? Someone already mentioned water storage. And where do you fit sprinkler pipework in flats that don't have purpose built ceiling voids or sufficient headroom to install them? Do they still have to be painted red? Attractive in your lounge. I'm not sure that retrofit sprinklers is practical in these old tower blocks. Proper compartmentation and protected means of escape is a reasonable solution, but it didn't work in this case. The enquiry should focus on why not. The fire that started in a flat should have been contained in that flat, and the corridors and staircase(s) should have been fire and smoke free. Something went wrong and we have to make sure it doesn't happen again. I think alterations will be needed to other blocks after this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shurlock Posted 17 June, 2017 Share Posted 17 June, 2017 Still why let details like that get in the way of a bit of Council/Government bashing. I have been reading about the couple of Italian Architects who came to Britain to get the sort of salary they couldn't get in Italy, sad isn't it. Still amazes me that they could get a council flat though or have waiting lists just faded away these last years. The block isn't just social housing. It is also made up of private homes which are sold or rented out by Kensington and Chelsea Tenant Management Organisation. You can see online ads for rentals - they're pretty pricey. Wouldn't be surprised if some of the cosmetic refurbs were driven by market considerations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
badgerx16 Posted 17 June, 2017 Share Posted 17 June, 2017 The BBC have reported that the DCLG have issued a statement saying that if the cladding had a plastic core then it WOULD NOT meet Building Regs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Window Cleaner Posted 17 June, 2017 Share Posted 17 June, 2017 (edited) The block isn't just social housing. It is also made up of private homes which are sold or rented out by Kensington and Chelsea Tenant Management Organisation. You can see online ads for rentals - they're pretty pricey. Wouldn't be surprised if some of the cosmetic refurbs were driven by market considerations. Ah right, that situation doesn't exist here,(well as far as I know anyway) an HLM block is just that, you can't buy your flat or sublet it (in theory). They can also turf you out if you earn over a certain threshold or no longer meet the requirements for HLM housing.. Edited 17 June, 2017 by Window Cleaner Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
do i not like fizzy pop Posted 17 June, 2017 Share Posted 17 June, 2017 Ah right, that situation doesn't exist here,(well as far as I know anyway) an HLM block is just that, you can't buy your flat or sublet it (in theory). They can also turf you out if you earn over a certain threshold or no longer meet the requirements for HLM housing.. That's 'Right To Buy' for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shurlock Posted 17 June, 2017 Share Posted 17 June, 2017 You have to question the wisdom of the likes of the BBC publishing articles claiming that the block could have been fitted with sprinklers for £138,000 without any attempt at proper verification. Consultancy fees alone would be far in excess of that before you bought a single piece of pipe. How much does a certified fire pump cost these days? And the standby pump in case the first one is out of service for maintenance? And the dedicated power supply to the pumps? And the standby power supply in case of a power failure during a fire? Someone already mentioned water storage. And where do you fit sprinkler pipework in flats that don't have purpose built ceiling voids or sufficient headroom to install them? Do they still have to be painted red? Attractive in your lounge. I'm not sure that retrofit sprinklers is practical in these old tower blocks. Proper compartmentation and protected means of escape is a reasonable solution, but it didn't work in this case. The enquiry should focus on why not. The fire that started in a flat should have been contained in that flat, and the corridors and staircase(s) should have been fire and smoke free. Something went wrong and we have to make sure it doesn't happen again. I think alterations will be needed to other blocks after this. Basically everyone is regurgitating the same Press Association article which contains the British Automatic Fire Sprinkler Association estimate (an example of what Nick Davies would term churnalism). The BBC also ran with it and added its own wrinkle. Seemingly something was lost in translation - not the first time the media has failed to put figures in their proper context (learned from bitter experience). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hutch Posted 17 June, 2017 Share Posted 17 June, 2017 The block isn't just social housing. It is also made up of private homes which are sold or rented out by Kensington and Chelsea Tenant Management Organisation. You can see online ads for rentals - they're pretty pricey. Wouldn't be surprised if some of the cosmetic refurbs were driven by market considerations. I'm not sure that's entirely accurate. KCTMO took over responsibility for entire blocks from RBKC. That included some flats that had been bought by tenants on long leases under the Right to Buy scheme, some of those leases having subsequently been sold on by the original buyers. So KCTMO rents out the social housing on behalf of RBKC and also fulfils the landlord obligations where leasehold have been sold. KCTMO is also responsible for capital works projects. So, broad brush I would say that KCTMO is the responsible party for what happened (although it might be able to lay off some liability to designers supervisors inspectors architects or builders depending on the type of contracts used) RBKC is responsible to sort out the mess and look after the affected, and Theresa May is liable along with every government for the past 40 years for the complete b*ggers muddle that UK housing policy has become. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Window Cleaner Posted 17 June, 2017 Share Posted 17 June, 2017 That's 'Right To Buy' for you. Yep, I was down Hythe way the other week, never seen so many "council houses" with swimming pools in the garden. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
do i not like fizzy pop Posted 17 June, 2017 Share Posted 17 June, 2017 You have to question the wisdom of the likes of the BBC publishing articles claiming that the block could have been fitted with sprinklers for £138,000 without any attempt at proper verification. Consultancy fees alone would be far in excess of that before you bought a single piece of pipe. How much does a certified fire pump cost these days? And the standby pump in case the first one is out of service for maintenance? And the dedicated power supply to the pumps? And the standby power supply in case of a power failure during a fire? Someone already mentioned water storage. And where do you fit sprinkler pipework in flats that don't have purpose built ceiling voids or sufficient headroom to install them? Do they still have to be painted red? Attractive in your lounge. I'm not sure that retrofit sprinklers is practical in these old tower blocks. Proper compartmentation and protected means of escape is a reasonable solution, but it didn't work in this case. The enquiry should focus on why not. The fire that started in a flat should have been contained in that flat, and the corridors and staircase(s) should have been fire and smoke free. Something went wrong and we have to make sure it doesn't happen again. I think alterations will be needed to other blocks after this. In theory (without seeing the building drawings) it can be done. Tyco and others manufacture heads for low ceiling clearance, but as you say fitting these in a flat on a retro fit is problematic - the more likely output would be to cover the communal areas, corridors, stairwells, etc - the areas deemed means of escape- but I'm going to stick my neck out and based on nothing more than back of a fag packet calculation say you are looking at somewhere between £1-£1.5m for a full system. That's if the structure can take the weight of the water tank on roof. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Window Cleaner Posted 17 June, 2017 Share Posted 17 June, 2017 And one or two efficient fire extinguishers for each flat would cost how much ? Including mandatory annual maintainence. Gas supply is of course a problem but I presume it can be shut down. Are fire extinguishers even obligatory in UK dwellings ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jawillwill Posted 17 June, 2017 Share Posted 17 June, 2017 It's the way the left works these days. Stumped for an answer? Then just resort to abuse. A clear sign of an argument lost. Richard Suchet's twitter account showing a mob attacking a cameraman, egged on by masked supporters, not 100% clear how reliable he is though. I was stumped for anything else to say, yes. His tiresome bull**** contributes absolutely nothing worthwhile to any discussion on SWF. "Imagine if he said this...". What a ****tish thing to say on so many levels. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitey Grandad Posted 17 June, 2017 Share Posted 17 June, 2017 And one or two efficient fire extinguishers for each flat would cost how much ? Including mandatory annual maintainence. Gas supply is of course a problem but I presume it can be shut down. Are fire extinguishers even obligatory in UK dwellings ? No, they're not. We have several different types of extinguisher at my industrial unit and they keep changing the colour identification. I have asked many times if there are any training courses on how to use them but there is nothing regular available. I think the general attitude is that they don't want you to hang around and try to tackle the fire, just get somewhere safe and dial 999. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stknowle Posted 17 June, 2017 Share Posted 17 June, 2017 Brick walls have a habit of not allowing fires to rampage up the façades of buildings. **** modern cladding systems, give me brick outer skin, insulated cavity, blockwork inner skin all day long. 50 plus dead people would still be alive if that simple construction had applied at Grenfell House. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonnyboy Posted 17 June, 2017 Share Posted 17 June, 2017 residents have been heard saying people are now hijacking the tradegy to protest and are completely unhelpful. The cartoonish hawking of this horrible tragedy as some anti-tory crusade is pretty poor to be honest. Not going to change the result of the election as Labour still (by some distance) lost Please make your mind up how you spell "tragedy." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Window Cleaner Posted 17 June, 2017 Share Posted 17 June, 2017 (edited) No, they're not. We have several different types of extinguisher at my industrial unit and they keep changing the colour identification. I have asked many times if there are any training courses on how to use them but there is nothing regular available. I think the general attitude is that they don't want you to hang around and try to tackle the fire, just get somewhere safe and dial 999. Oh fire extinguisher training courses are good fun, especially when you do them once a year and they're always the same. People get pretty blasé and usually end up spraying the rest of the class through inattention. Surprised they're not mandatory though. NB. Our fire extinguishers are coded with a little pictogram, then again I guess the French are stupid enough not to remember codes, numbers or colours. It's so simple even fools can use them. Edited 17 June, 2017 by Window Cleaner Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ecuk268 Posted 17 June, 2017 Share Posted 17 June, 2017 Brick walls have a habit of not allowing fires to rampage up the façades of buildings. **** modern cladding systems, give me brick outer skin, insulated cavity, blockwork inner skin all day long. 50 plus dead people would still be alive if that simple construction had applied at Grenfell House. Exactly. If you look at what happened at Shirley Towers, the fire was contained in the flat where the fire started and a few neighbouring ones. They are designed to contain the fire until the fire service can deal with it. Even so, it was fierce enough for 2 firemen to lose their lives. The sheer speed of the spread of the fire on Wednesday night and the fact that it seemed to go up the outside of the building makes it likely that the cladding was one the main factors in this case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pugwash Posted 18 June, 2017 Share Posted 18 June, 2017 They lost their lives because they became entangled in cables that hadn't been properly installed and dropped down when the ceilings collapsed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batman Posted 18 June, 2017 Share Posted 18 June, 2017 interesting to watch John McDonnell telling us we need to keep party politics out of this..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitey Grandad Posted 18 June, 2017 Share Posted 18 June, 2017 Oh fire extinguisher training courses are good fun, especially when you do them once a year and they're always the same. People get pretty blasé and usually end up spraying the rest of the class through inattention. Surprised they're not mandatory though. NB. Our fire extinguishers are coded with a little pictogram, then again I guess the French are stupid enough not to remember codes, numbers or colours. It's so simple even fools can use them. Our extinguishers used to be different colours. As I remember them it was black for CO2 for electrical, pale brown was water for paper or cardboard, red was for general use (foam?). There may also have been some green ones (powder?). Now they're all red and you have to read the labels to decide which one to use. Another point, they are checked annually and sometimes need to be discharged and refilled. My secretary was offered the opportunity of discharging one but she couldn't even break the security tag. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simo Posted 18 June, 2017 Share Posted 18 June, 2017 Brick walls have a habit of not allowing fires to rampage up the façades of buildings. **** modern cladding systems, give me brick outer skin, insulated cavity, blockwork inner skin all day long. 50 plus dead people would still be alive if that simple construction had applied at Grenfell House. Now saying that type of cladding maybe illegal in the US , UK and Eu . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
View From The Top Posted 18 June, 2017 Share Posted 18 June, 2017 "How stupid can you get?" Usually a question. To Batman, a challenge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
do i not like fizzy pop Posted 19 June, 2017 Share Posted 19 June, 2017 Our extinguishers used to be different colours. As I remember them it was black for CO2 for electrical, pale brown was water for paper or cardboard, red was for general use (foam?). There may also have been some green ones (powder?). Now they're all red and you have to read the labels to decide which one to use. Another point, they are checked annually and sometimes need to be discharged and refilled. My secretary was offered the opportunity of discharging one but she couldn't even break the security tag. Fire extinguishers used to be: Red - Water (Combustible materials eg paper, wood fires), Black - CO2 (electrical, flammable liquids eg paint, petrol), Blue - Dry Powder (all fires except high temperature eg deep fat friers) and the Green - Halon (pretty much banned now, except for example on aircraft where there is no suitable alternative). Perversely it was EU legislation in the 1970s that meant the UK had adopt the standard red with colour flashband to identify extinguisher type - though the UK deemed it not an important enough issue to participate in the motion when it joined the EU. There is also now an additional yellow banded fire extinguisher containing a wet chemical for high temperature fires. On a commercial basis extinguishers need to be certified when purchased and inspected and re-certified every year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sour Mash Posted 19 June, 2017 Share Posted 19 June, 2017 If you're a white middle class bloke in a suit, don't show yourself at these kind of places, your help is needed, put socialist placards are http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/06/18/tory-councillor-beaten-grenfell-tower-protesters-revealed-volunteer/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Bognor Posted 19 June, 2017 Share Posted 19 June, 2017 If you're a white middle class bloke in a suit, don't show yourself at these kind of places, your help is needed, put socialist placards are http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/06/18/tory-councillor-beaten-grenfell-tower-protesters-revealed-volunteer/ The extreme left are worse than pompey fans going around lynching peadiatricians... Sent from my SM-G920F using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonnyboy Posted 19 June, 2017 Share Posted 19 June, 2017 The extreme left are worse than pompey fans going around lynching peadiatricians... Sent from my SM-G920F using Tapatalk A "debt manager" (or private bailiff manager? ) got a bump on the head and some water poured on him? Diddums. By the way it's paediatrician. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Bognor Posted 19 June, 2017 Share Posted 19 June, 2017 (edited) A "debt manager" (or private bailiff manager? ) got a bump on the head and some water poured on him? Diddums. By the way it's paediatrician. I'd rather make a spelling mistake than be worse than pompey fan... Stand down knob jockey... if a lefty got smacked and pushed to the ground, you'd be having kittens.. Maybe you missed the bit about him being a volunteer who was helping the victims. I only begrudge paying my taxes when it's wasted on people like you... Edited 19 June, 2017 by Johnny Bognor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonnyboy Posted 19 June, 2017 Share Posted 19 June, 2017 I'd rather make a spelling mistake than be worse than pompey fan... Stand down knob jockey... if a lefty got smacked and pushed to the ground, you'd be having kittens.. Maybe you missed the bit about him being a volunteer who was helping the victims. I only begrudge paying my taxes when it's wasted on people like you... His wife says he was. Maybe he did go down for half an hour one night. I have worse done to me on a night out. I know you'd rather "lefties" received this kind of treatment though, like this poor girl today: http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/virginia-mosque-nabra-hassanen-17-abducted-killed-way-home-a7796941.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shurlock Posted 19 June, 2017 Share Posted 19 June, 2017 (edited) I'd rather make a spelling mistake than be worse than pompey fan... Stand down knob jockey... if a lefty got smacked and pushed to the ground, you'd be having kittens.. Maybe you missed the bit about him being a volunteer who was helping the victims. I only begrudge paying my taxes when it's wasted on people like you... Balders, been out in the sun today? Edited 19 June, 2017 by shurlock Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Bognor Posted 19 June, 2017 Share Posted 19 June, 2017 (edited) Balders, been out in the sun too long? No. Just dont think you can justify attacking anyone unprovoked, however slight the attack... but the extreme left wing would view that as collateral damage. Cant wait to see the great unwashed get served on saturday Edited 19 June, 2017 by Johnny Bognor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sour Mash Posted 19 June, 2017 Share Posted 19 June, 2017 A "debt manager" (or private bailiff manager? ) got a bump on the head and some water poured on him? Diddums. By the way it's paediatrician. What a weird view to have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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