Puel Sacked? - As Reported by Crook of Sh*t

[DT]

Yep - you're right - 8th in the Premier League - but a total shambles. Just imagine what the 80 odd clubs behind us are like...!!!

 

It's not all about league position, as you well know

[Saint Albert]

Can I ask what you are basing this on? What exactly have the Club said to Puel and what arrangement is in place? I mean more than what a couple of articles in a paper say, as not everything in the papers is true!!!!

 

Wilson is generally regarded as an authoritative source.

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2017/06/07/claude-puel-faces-sack-southampton-have-found-replacement/

Edited 7 June, 2017 by Saint Albert
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[angelman]

we finished 8th and so those below us did worse against the others. Next season lets hope we still can say the same.

 

I don't consider that Bournemouth did worse than us (although some will say that their worst GD means that they did - but at least they saw some goals being scored by their team!)

[Lighthouse]

Never said they were the same thing...

 

You stated that we sit back and don't look like we're having a go. I.e. that we are playing 'negative' football as has been said elsewhere.

 

I'm saying that I really do think we have had a go in several games, and show attacking intent.

 

Having possession against Arsenal wasn't just about holding the ball, but that we really had a go at them, got into the penalty box etc.

 

Absolutely not saying that is what defines Puel's first season.

 

But at least to give credit that I don't think the problem has been lack of any attacking intent. I think the problem has more been around the team not responding well to going down, loosing energy in the second half, not having a plan B, many other reasons besides that need fixing.

 

but sure, the posession football isn't to be lauded.

 

We had a decent first half against Arsenal but that's about as good as you can say. We didn't score and lost all impetus in the second half, then ended up losing without any goals - again.

 

There has absolutely been a lack of attacking intent on many occasions. Be'er Sheva, West Brom, West Ham, Man Utd, Bournemouth, Stoke, Boro, Sunderland, Man City, Chelsea and Hull at home were just awful, a complete lack of tempo to any of our play.

[mrfahaji]

I don't consider that Bournemouth did worse than us (although some will say that their worst GD means that they did - but at least they saw some goals being scored by their team!)

 

Bournemouth have done a similar thing both seasons they've been up. First third of the season look pretty good, get a few points on the board and don't look like relegation candidates, then slip alarmingly towards the drop zone where it seems they lose to everyone - a fixture vs Bournemouth is suddenly an easy three points - and just when they start being seen as a team in trouble, they finish the season with a fluorish and say "what were you worried about?"

 

Obviously I would like us to have a bit more of their panache, but at the same time am grateful we were never in huge danger of going down (the win vs Palace was crucial in that regard, else things may have been different).

[Dalek2003]

Shabby way to treat someone. Very disappointed with the club for doing this. If the club doesn't want him then sack him and pay him off. No way can he stay after this.

 

Agreed. But look how we treated Hoddle in 2004. Told everyone we were re-appointing him and then in the last moment appointed Luggy.

[mrfahaji]

We had a decent first half against Arsenal but that's about as good as you can say. We didn't score and lost all impetus in the second half, then ended up losing without any goals - again.

 

There has absolutely been a lack of attacking intent on many occasions. Be'er Sheva, West Brom, West Ham, Man Utd, Bournemouth, Stoke, Boro, Sunderland, Man City, Chelsea and Hull at home were just awful, a complete lack of tempo to any of our play.

 

Hmmm... I don't disagree with the general sentiment that we haven't been decisive, quick or determined enough in attack at times, but not all the ones you've listed are valid. We weren't that bad against West Ham, losing was a mix of bad luck and keeper howler, Bournemouth were all over us for the last 30 minutes but we should have been in front before that stage. We deservedly took the lead against West Brom and immediately conceded and then Robson-Kanu scored a brilliant goal, had Tadic hit the target from 10 yards out we would have led against City, and although the United game was frustrating, we weren't awful.

 

I think you're right to point out the lack of tempo and the inability to capitalise when we were on top. Even the games I've defended above, I'll concede that we were only decent for bits of the game, rather than scintillating throughout. But just don't feel as though it's fair to lump them all together as similar performances.

[simo]

Our handling of this and our Pr as a whole has been carp lately!

[Lighthouse]

Hmmm... I don't disagree with the general sentiment that we haven't been decisive, quick or determined enough in attack at times, but not all the ones you've listed are valid. We weren't that bad against West Ham, losing was a mix of bad luck and keeper howler, Bournemouth were all over us for the last 30 minutes but we should have been in front before that stage. We deservedly took the lead against West Brom and immediately conceded and then Robson-Kanu scored a brilliant goal, had Tadic hit the target from 10 yards out we would have led against City, and although the United game was frustrating, we weren't awful.

 

I think you're right to point out the lack of tempo and the inability to capitalise when we were on top. Even the games I've defended above, I'll concede that we were only decent for bits of the game, rather than scintillating throughout. But just don't feel as though it's fair to lump them all together as similar performances.

 

We scored from a corner against West Brom. It was another blank from open play, they were the better team.

[doddisalegend]

Our handling of this and our Pr as a whole has been carp lately!

 

People at the club just going through the motions before they are replaced with Chinese nationals perhaps...

[Delmary]

http://www.liverpoolfc.com/news/announcements/265720-liverpool-fc-statement

[Suhari]

http://www.liverpoolfc.com/news/announcements/265720-liverpool-fc-statement

 

Wrong thread - but interesting..

[Delmary]

Oops. Got over excited

[mrfahaji]

We scored from a corner against West Brom. It was another blank from open play, they were the better team.

 

Ok fair enough, I was a bit hazy on that game, but definitely recall feeling a little frustrated when they equalised straight away, but maybe we didn't deserve the lead. Think the others stand though.

[krissyboy31]

Wilson is generally regarded as an authoritative source.

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2017/06/07/claude-puel-faces-sack-southampton-have-found-replacement/

How did Roy bloody Hodgson get on the "possibles" list??

[Lighthouse]

Ok fair enough, I was a bit hazy on that game, but definitely recall feeling a little frustrated when they equalised straight away, but maybe we didn't deserve the lead. Think the others stand though.

 

We put in 3 decent performances at home; Palace, Burnley and Leicester. Palace have been relegation candidates all season, Burnley are useless away from home, Leicester (when we played them under CR) were useless full stop.

 

Putting aside those 3 games against substandard opposition we scored 8 goals in 16 home games:

 

Watford - Corner

Sunderland - GK error

West Brom - Corner

Boro - Long range effort from Boufal, overall build up play generally poor.

Spurs - Set Piece

 

So across 85% of our home games we've scored 3 goals from effective build up play. Swansea, Everton, West Ham. Out of them, Swansea were dreadful, Everton were caught napping in the first minute.

 

That's appalling.

[verlaine1979]

We put in 3 decent performances at home; Palace, Burnley and Leicester. Palace have been relegation candidates all season, Burnley are useless away from home, Leicester (when we played them under CR) were useless full stop.

 

Putting aside those 3 games against substandard opposition we scored 8 goals in 16 home games:

 

Watford - Corner

Sunderland - GK error

West Brom - Corner

Boro - Long range effort from Boufal, overall build up play generally poor.

Spurs - Set Piece

 

So across 85% of our home games we've scored 3 goals from effective build up play. Swansea, Everton, West Ham. Out of them, Swansea were dreadful, Everton were caught napping in the first minute.

 

That's appalling.

 

Blimey, when you sum it up like that... abject.

[Crab Lungs]

We put in 3 decent performances at home; Palace, Burnley and Leicester. Palace have been relegation candidates all season, Burnley are useless away from home, Leicester (when we played them under CR) were useless full stop.

 

Putting aside those 3 games against substandard opposition we scored 8 goals in 16 home games:

 

Watford - Corner

Sunderland - GK error

West Brom - Corner

Boro - Long range effort from Boufal, overall build up play generally poor.

Spurs - Set Piece

 

So across 85% of our home games we've scored 3 goals from effective build up play. Swansea, Everton, West Ham. Out of them, Swansea were dreadful, Everton were caught napping in the first minute.

 

That's appalling.

 

Yes it is but apparently we're creating loads of goalscoring opportunities, more crosses by a club since football data began to be recorded and the football played was stylish and attacking.

Apparently.

[mrfahaji]

We put in 3 decent performances at home; Palace, Burnley and Leicester. Palace have been relegation candidates all season, Burnley are useless away from home, Leicester (when we played them under CR) were useless full stop.

 

Putting aside those 3 games against substandard opposition we scored 8 goals in 16 home games:

 

Watford - Corner

Sunderland - GK error

West Brom - Corner

Boro - Long range effort from Boufal, overall build up play generally poor.

Spurs - Set Piece

 

So across 85% of our home games we've scored 3 goals from effective build up play. Swansea, Everton, West Ham. Out of them, Swansea were dreadful, Everton were caught napping in the first minute.

 

That's appalling.

 

Well it is hard to dispute any of that. I guess that's why I eventually moved to the 'Puel Out' camp, because in several games (though admittedly, some of those were away games) we showed glimpses of something good and there was reason to think things could get better. But eventually the lack of incisiveness happened too consistently, and in actual fact the cautious football probably increased in the last couple of months of the season.

[Spoonman]

Well it is hard to dispute any of that. I guess that's why I eventually moved to the 'Puel Out' camp, because in several games (though admittedly, some of those were away games) we showed glimpses of something good and there was reason to think things could get better. But eventually the lack of incisiveness happened too consistently, and in actual fact the cautious football probably increased in the last couple of months of the season.

Nutshell.

[Chez]

We put in 3 decent performances at home; Palace, Burnley and Leicester. Palace have been relegation candidates all season, Burnley are useless away from home, Leicester (when we played them under CR) were useless full stop.

 

Putting aside those 3 games against substandard opposition we scored 8 goals in 16 home games:

 

Watford - Corner

Sunderland - GK error

West Brom - Corner

Boro - Long range effort from Boufal, overall build up play generally poor.

Spurs - Set Piece

 

So across 85% of our home games we've scored 3 goals from effective build up play. Swansea, Everton, West Ham. Out of them, Swansea were dreadful, Everton were caught napping in the first minute.

 

That's appalling.

 

woeful. Obviously Puel must take some blame, but don't think for one minute the quality of player we have at the club at this moment doesn't have a bearing on these stats. Removing the likes of Morgan, Wanyama, Mane, Lallana and Pelle does make a difference. Controlling games and having 'difference makers' is essential to create genuine chances, and quite frankly we don't have either. I dont see these players making up those 15 points next season no matter who is in charge. A manager can do only so much.

[doddisalegend]

woeful. Obviously Puel must take some blame, but don't think for one minute the quality of player we have at the club at this moment doesn't have a bearing on these stats. Removing the likes of Morgan, Wanyama, Mane, Lallana and Pelle does make a difference. Controlling games and having 'difference makers' is essential to create genuine chances, and quite frankly we don't have either. I dont see these players making up those 15 points next season no matter who is in charge. A manager can do only so much.

 

 

Very much this. I'm amazed how many people seem to attribute everything that went wrong down to the manager, when we so clearly dropped the ball last summer, and left ourselves with a much poorer squad.

 

Massive summer ahead if we get our recruitment wrong again this summer last season could well become the norm regardless of who the manager is.

[Patrick Bateman]

woeful. Obviously Puel must take some blame, but don't think for one minute the quality of player we have at the club at this moment doesn't have a bearing on these stats. Removing the likes of Morgan, Wanyama, Mane, Lallana and Pelle does make a difference. Controlling games and having 'difference makers' is essential to create genuine chances, and quite frankly we don't have either. I dont see these players making up those 15 points next season no matter who is in charge. A manager can do only so much.

 

To be fair, from what I've heard (and since read elsewhere), he wasn't overly settled here anyway, so maybe it was HIS calling the shots? But whatever, the club needs to step the f**k up and make some statements.

[Saint86]

woeful. Obviously Puel must take some blame, but don't think for one minute the quality of player we have at the club at this moment doesn't have a bearing on these stats. Removing the likes of Morgan, Wanyama, Mane, Lallana and Pelle does make a difference. Controlling games and having 'difference makers' is essential to create genuine chances, and quite frankly we don't have either. I dont see these players making up those 15 points next season no matter who is in charge. A manager can do only so much.

 

So Puel out... Or Les out?!?!

[doddisalegend]

So Puel out... Or Les out?!?!

 

 

Ross Wilson out....

[DT]

How did Roy bloody Hodgson get on the "possibles" list??

 

by being available and not very good

[LaptopSaint]

We put in 3 decent performances at home; Palace, Burnley and Leicester. Palace have been relegation candidates all season, Burnley are useless away from home, Leicester (when we played them under CR) were useless full stop.

 

Putting aside those 3 games against substandard opposition we scored 8 goals in 16 home games:

 

Watford - Corner

Sunderland - GK error

West Brom - Corner

Boro - Long range effort from Boufal, overall build up play generally poor.

Spurs - Set Piece

 

So across 85% of our home games we've scored 3 goals from effective build up play. Swansea, Everton, West Ham. Out of them, Swansea were dreadful, Everton were caught napping in the first minute.

 

That's appalling.

 

That is a pretty damning analysis.

[Saint86]

Ross Wilson out....

 

But Les hired Puel, and is in charge of transfers and recruitment?

[doddisalegend]

But Les hired Puel, and is in charge of transfers and recruitment?

 

Wilson heads up Southampton’s Scouting & Recruitment department so I guess ultimately he'd take the fall for poor recruitment...

[SKD]

Wilson heads up Southampton’s Scouting & Recruitment department so I guess ultimately he'd take the fall for poor recruitment...

 

I agree. Our recruitment since Mitchell left has been questionable, IMO. I'd argue that only Gabbi has been a success in terms of major players with question marks still over PEH and Boufal. Big window ahead for him (Wilson).

[Bad Wolf]

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/readsouthampton.com/2017/06/07/saint-etienne-reportedly-ready-pay-compensation-puel/%3Famp%3D1

[SKD]

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/readsouthampton.com/2017/06/07/saint-etienne-reportedly-ready-pay-compensation-puel/%3Famp%3D1

 

If ASSE come in, pay the compensation and the former Nice manager accepts the third offer – perhaps down to him now being available – it’ll surely be a good move for all parties.

 

I take it he hasn't considered that if we sack Puel, compensation will be paid to Puel himself... If they pay us, Puel will lose out on compensation.

[OldNick]

We put in 3 decent performances at home; Palace, Burnley and Leicester. Palace have been relegation candidates all season, Burnley are useless away from home, Leicester (when we played them under CR) were useless full stop.

 

Putting aside those 3 games against substandard opposition we scored 8 goals in 16 home games:

 

Watford - Corner

Sunderland - GK error

West Brom - Corner

Boro - Long range effort from Boufal, overall build up play generally poor.

Spurs - Set Piece

 

So across 85% of our home games we've scored 3 goals from effective build up play. Swansea, Everton, West Ham. Out of them, Swansea were dreadful, Everton were caught napping in the first minute.

 

That's appalling.

So the Everton game wasnt a superb performance then? Personally if we had Gabbi earlier he would have taken many of the chances we created during games. I like Long and he adds a bit to us but he just cant score enough from the gilt edge chances he gets. Jrod also

[doddisalegend]

I take it he hasn't considered that if we sack Puel, compensation will be paid to Puel himself... If they pay us, Puel will lose out on compensation.

 

Plus why would ASSE pay us when it has become the worst kept secret (after Kloppgate) that Saints are planning to ditch him any way hang on a couple of weeks and they can get him for free

[Daft Kerplunk]

So the Everton game wasnt a superb performance then? Personally if we had Gabbi earlier he would have taken many of the chances we created during games. I like Long and he adds a bit to us but he just cant score enough from the gilt edge chances he gets. Jrod also

 

I don't recall us being that good against Everton, although there was plenty of excitement from fans about beating RK. But I'm pretty sure I recall it being a fairly average game after our early goal. I could be wrong though but the rest has been pretty dire.

 

One thing I do think though having watched the u23s a couple of times when Martin Hunter has been coaching is that their play is very similar to that if the first team so maybe the style of play is more a reflection on how Les sees this as a way to play. If he's happy with Puel, you can only guess that it is matching how we as a club are supposed to play under The Southampton Way message.

[Chez]

So Puel out... Or Les out?!?!

 

what a good question. These transfer committees are all very well, but if results don't come, the only one blamed is the manager, yet its the scouting team that make the recommendations (unless of course that's not the case). I suspect `the committee' got their way regarding Redmond (who was signed 5 days before Puel joined), McCarthy and maybe Hojbjerg too, but Puel will have brought in Pied and Boufal.

 

All of those players need more time and may all prove to be great signings. What we desperately needed was one or two to hit the ground running, which I am not sure any did. What compounded that problem was the second season guys in Classie and Austin didn't or couldn't fill the shoes of those leaving. Those two signings leave a lot to be desired in my eyes, but again one was probably a committee signing the other RK (despite the claims - in order to downplay RK's involvement - he had been on Saints radar for years).

 

Apportioning blame is tricky these days unless you know exactly how much power the manager has in terms of forcing changes to the squad. Will a new manager have the power to make wholesale changes or is his hands tied because the likes of Long are on huge wages and have little reason to budge?

[Chez]

I agree. Our recruitment since Mitchell left has been questionable, IMO. I'd argue that only Gabbi has been a success in terms of major players with question marks still over PEH and Boufal. Big window ahead for him (Wilson).

 

he left in November 2014 so Soares, Romeu and VVD all signed since.

[kpturner]

WTF?! On what planet are Tony Pulis and possession football the same thing?

 

Pulis is a dinosaur. A good old fasioned, play it out wide to Jermaine Pennant and stick it in the mixer with the big men, kind of manager.

 

Of course we have lots of possession. We're a team who, from our own corner, somehow ends up passing it back to Forster. It's the most uninspiring, risk adverse, dull possession football you could hope to imagine. When Redmond gets the ball on the edge of their third, plays it square to Romeu, then back to Bertrand, then back across to Yoshida, then back to the keeper, you're always going to get loads of possession.

I think you misunderstood his Pulis point ergo we *didn't* play like a Pulis team from August to May.

[SKD]

he left in November 2014 so Soares, Romeu and VVD all signed since.

 

VVD was a long term target and almost certainly originally sounded out by Mitchell.

 

Cedric and Romeu came in 6 or 7 months after Mitchell moved to Tottenham. Given both were fairly unheard of at the time and the fact we bang on so frequently about how deep we look into certain players, I suspect these were on our radar as well.

[tajjuk]

I take it he hasn't considered that if we sack Puel, compensation will be paid to Puel himself... If they pay us, Puel will lose out on compensation.

 

I think they would pay the compensation to him is what they are getting at, not us.

 

He doesn't want to sign for St Etienne cos he'll miss out on the compensation of two years contract that Saints would owe if they sack him, you can't get compensation if he just agrees to another club.

 

Saints don't really want to pay him all that money if they can avoid it, hence negotiations.

 

If St Etienne pay it then everyone is happy -

 

St Etienne get a new manager they clearly want.

 

Saints get rid of a manager that they don't want and don't have to pay up the rest of his contract.

 

Puel gets a new job and two years of salary as a lump sum.

 

 

Win win.

 

So let's hope that goes through and we can quickly get Tuchel, Schmidt or whoever in, new manager contacts the players, convinces VVD and Bertrand to at least stay another year, and we can then move on to actually improving the squad.

[mrfahaji]

I think they would pay the compensation to him is what they are getting at, not us.

 

He doesn't want to sign for St Etienne cos he'll miss out on the compensation of two years contract that Saints would owe if they sack him, you can't get compensation if he just agrees to another club.

 

Saints don't really want to pay him all that money if they can avoid it, hence negotiations.

 

If St Etienne pay it then everyone is happy -

 

St Etienne get a new manager they clearly want.

 

Saints get rid of a manager that they don't want and don't have to pay up the rest of his contract.

 

Puel gets a new job and two years of salary as a lump sum.

 

 

Win win.

 

So let's hope that goes through and we can quickly get Tuchel, Schmidt or whoever in, new manager contacts the players, convinces VVD and Bertrand to at least stay another year, and we can then move on to actually improving the squad.

 

Except St Etienne will know that too. Are they going to pay up for his services, knowing that by sitting it out for a couple of weeks they could avoid doing so?

 

Sounds like something of a Mexican Standoff.

[Window Cleaner]

In any case St Etienne won't pay Puel a brass centime in "compensation", it's not what they do. They probably won't pay Saints a great deal either. Oscar Garcia from RB Salzburg is said to be favourite today, well according to Le Progès anyway. He has just a year on his contract and RB Salzbourg would probably let him go for not a lot, probably asking for less than Puel as well.

[Lighthouse]

So the Everton game wasnt a superb performance then? Personally if we had Gabbi earlier he would have taken many of the chances we created during games. I like Long and he adds a bit to us but he just cant score enough from the gilt edge chances he gets. Jrod also

 

We were pretty good and they were pretty poor, we still only managed 1 goal.

[eurosaint]

We put in 3 decent performances at home; Palace, Burnley and Leicester. Palace have been relegation candidates all season, Burnley are useless away from home, Leicester (when we played them under CR) were useless full stop.

 

Putting aside those 3 games against substandard opposition we scored 8 goals in 16 home games:

 

Watford - Corner

Sunderland - GK error

West Brom - Corner

Boro - Long range effort from Boufal, overall build up play generally poor.

Spurs - Set Piece

 

So across 85% of our home games we've scored 3 goals from effective build up play. Swansea, Everton, West Ham. Out of them, Swansea were dreadful, Everton were caught napping in the first minute.

 

That's appalling.

 

TBF, I won't be shedding any tears if Claude goes but I think it is wrong to cherry pick all the bad bits and ignore everything else !

It seems now that 8th place was unwarranted, results against the top 6 disastrous, home games generally sh#t, cup final lost and everything else airbrushed from history !

Not sure that this perspective is realistic, surely there has to be some semblance of balance ?

[Give it to Ron]

TBF, I won't be shedding any tears if Claude goes but I think it is wrong to cherry pick all the bad bits and ignore everything else !

It seems now that 8th place was unwarranted, results against the top 6 disastrous, home games generally sh#t, cup final lost and everything else airbrushed from history !

Not sure that this perspective is realistic, surely there has to be some semblance of balance ?

 

Away from home maybe but at home.....if people really want to talk about stats and rotation effects on here - go work out the last time the stadium was only a quarter full at an end of season walk around I can't remember it ever being that bad as this year.

The fans decided to vote with their feet to show they had enough of what was being served up by a tactically inept management team - not just Puel.

Oh and Sims was MOM the match in that Everton game ...he played a lot after that one didn't he! That taught him a lesson just like Clasie.

[Lighthouse]

TBF, I won't be shedding any tears if Claude goes but I think it is wrong to cherry pick all the bad bits and ignore everything else !

It seems now that 8th place was unwarranted, results against the top 6 disastrous, home games generally sh#t, cup final lost and everything else airbrushed from history !

Not sure that this perspective is realistic, surely there has to be some semblance of balance ?

 

Not really cherry picking when I'm talking about 85% of our home games. If we include all of them, we've still only scored from open play in 8/19 home games, that's including the 'keeping error against Sunderland. 11 home games where our attacking play produced absolutely nothing is just awful.

[Norm]

I really dislike the way this has been handled by Saints. CP rumoured to be sacked by every media source and social media going and not one denial, to my knowledge, by Saints is rather poor. All and sunder have been quick to jump on Liverpool for the way that club has been involved with our Captain being tapped up, yet Saints won't come out of this mess smelling of Roses. Forget about CP as our manager, what about CP the person! Can't say I like the way this saga is going.

[MongoNeil]

Has he gone yet?

[OttawaSaint]

Has he gone yet?

 

He's trying to but every time he gets in his car he goes sideways, then back, then sideways again, He can't get out of the St Marys carpark...

[angelman]

Rotation not working very well??