10 year plan for St Mary's stadium

[Nordic Saint]

What does that bring capacity to, pal? 33,000?

 

It’s almost as if someone, somewhere has decided it’s not commercially feasible to expand any further. Heaven forbid.

 

"More than 34,000".

 

For a club which has always had smaller average gates than ours, that shows ambition.

[spyinthesky]

I think you will find that the Toys r Us site was earmarked for about 50,000. The Dell still held 30, 000 at that time.

 

I think you are not far off the mark re the Toys R Us site as I assume the Pirelli factory was still in situ in the late 70's

 

However I am pretty certain that the expected capacity was 25,000

 

Would be good to get a definitive answer

[Mattio]

Would rather have a vaguely individual stadium, some identity and character. So bland and uninspiring to built your home for the next century as cheap as possible and with no real design considerations. SMS, Riverside, Pride Park, Leicester's ground, whatever they're all called now, they're all ****e.

We have a modern stadium in the centre of town with fantastic facilities (which makes a huge difference when both trying to attract new supporters and looking after supporters with mobility and other issues), the atmosphere is better than most EPL grounds and there's an expansion plan, which is actually making the ground more unique anyway.

 

I can't see what's to moan about. Would you rather be playing at Fratton Park?

[SuperSAINT]

We have a modern stadium in the centre of town with fantastic facilities (which makes a huge difference when both trying to attract new supporters and looking after supporters with mobility and other issues), the atmosphere is better than most EPL grounds and there's an expansion plan, which is actually making the ground more unique anyway.

 

I can't see what's to moan about. Would you rather be playing at Fratton Park?

 

Is that legit? or just rumour?

[hackedoff]

I think you are not far off the mark re the Toys R Us site as I assume the Pirelli factory was still in situ in the late 70's

 

However I am pretty certain that the expected capacity was 25,000

 

Would be good to get a definitive answer

 

I believe it was 40k , an artist impression did kick around for a bit, then it died a death.

[alehouseboys]

It was the old power station and imminent Pirelli factory coming down that first started talks of a possible site for a new stadium (mid-late 70s) and it got as far as actual 3D models being constructed and put on public view in the Civic Centre library. There were 3 varying designs on show (I went in and saw them), the biggest one had a capacity of around 50,000, and it was just a case of everyone agreeing and how it was going to be paid for. That, like Stoneham, was where it all went Pete Tong.

 

I can't believe there's no photos somewhere in the archives (never seen any even where talk of a new stadium surfaced years later)

[krissyboy31]

I believe it was 40k , an artist impression did kick around for a bit, then it died a death.

 

That's what I remember. It was Stoneham that was going to be capped at 25.000. Something to do with having to have 5000 parking spaces 1:5 ratio to pass the out of town planning regs.

[Nordic Saint]

It was the old power station and imminent Pirelli factory coming down that first started talks of a possible site for a new stadium (mid-late 70s) and it got as far as actual 3D models being constructed and put on public view in the Civic Centre library. There were 3 varying designs on show (I went in and saw them), the biggest one had a capacity of around 50,000, and it was just a case of everyone agreeing and how it was going to be paid for. That, like Stoneham, was where it all went Pete Tong.

 

I can't believe there's no photos somewhere in the archives (never seen any even where talk of a new stadium surfaced years later)

 

Yes, 50,000 was the planned capacity. There was a photo on the front page of the Echo, so there should be a copy in their archives. The major stumbling block was that John Deacon, the chairman of Portsmouth FC, who'd been turned down for a place on the Southampton FC board, was the head of Southampton City Council at the time and saw to it that planning permission was denied.

[Saint Garrett]

Palace stadium looks fantastic!

[Charlie Wayman]

We have a modern stadium in the centre of town with fantastic facilities (which makes a huge difference when both trying to attract new supporters and looking after supporters with mobility and other issues), the atmosphere is better than most EPL grounds and there's an expansion plan, which is actually making the ground more unique anyway.

 

I can't see what's to moan about. Would you rather be playing at Fratton Park?

 

If only they had worked out that 32000 people need a pee at least once during their two hours at the ground especially with beer on sale at the kiosks. Realistically the pee break is 20 mins so that's 1600 people per minute flooding into the loos.... stats don't lie!

 

Of course the loos at The Dell were primitive but the ones at SMS are not that much better. Cue; massive support for our loos!

[Charlie Wayman]

Palace stadium looks fantastic!

 

 

So did The Don's but look what happened to that.

 

For starters the final price might end up as double what Parrish claims and they're not going to get any help from the Mayor of London as he has already hung himself on the altar of The London Stadium. Perhaps they can ground share with the Hammers?

[GarrettIvo]

Hard to take it seriously when they say "Premier League's best atmosphere" and "UEFA compliant".

[angelman]

Would rather have a vaguely individual stadium, some identity and character. So bland and uninspiring to built your home for the next century as cheap as possible and with no real design considerations. SMS, Riverside, Pride Park, Leicester's ground, whatever they're all called now, they're all ****e.

 

We built a brand new stadium for 32k people for £1000 a seat. Palace are talking about adding some corporate and 8k seats for £100m or £12,500 a seat. So while it may not be individual, I am happy with that. As for character, I think if you go to LCFC for example, then they have created their own character.

[Saint_Jonny]

We built a brand new stadium for 32k people for £1000 a seat. Palace are talking about adding some corporate and 8k seats for £100m or £12,500 a seat. So while it may not be individual, I am happy with that. As for character, I think if you go to LCFC for example, then they have created their own character.

 

Exactly, our bland but very nice stadium was an absolute bargain compared to the cost of doing the same or similar today.

[Summers]

We built a brand new stadium for 32k people for £1000 a seat. Palace are talking about adding some corporate and 8k seats for £100m or £12,500 a seat. So while it may not be individual, I am happy with that. As for character, I think if you go to LCFC for example, then they have created their own character.

 

As far as I was aware (when SMS had the Visitor Centre) when it was being built. The foundations were laid to support up to 51,000 supporters, so technically they could expand to that number in the future. To add on 8,000 seats, which was something being bandied around in Lowe's time, I believe they were saying it was going to be circa £3k per seat to do this, therefore a £24m outlay to bump on an additional 8,000 seats, which would have only been able to go onto the Kingsland, Northam and Chapel ends due to the hospitality in the Itchen.

 

Looking at it in that way, its still not a huge cost compared to Palace's and I'm sure inflation would have bumped that price to £30m or beyond, But we wouldn't fill it at the present time!

[suewhistle]

Of course the loos at The Dell were primitive but the ones at SMS are not that much better. Cue; massive support for our loos!

 

I can only speak about the ladies loos, but the situation for us is now far,far,far better.

[rooney]

As far as I was aware (when SMS had the Visitor Centre) when it was being built. The foundations were laid to support up to 51,000 supporters, so technically they could expand to that number in the future. To add on 8,000 seats, which was something being bandied around in Lowe's time, I believe they were saying it was going to be circa £3k per seat to do this, therefore a £24m outlay to bump on an additional 8,000 seats, which would have only been able to go onto the Kingsland, Northam and Chapel ends due to the hospitality in the Itchen.

 

Looking at it in that way, its still not a huge cost compared to Palace's and I'm sure inflation would have bumped that price to £30m or beyond, But we wouldn't fill it at the present time![/QUote

 

I thought they told us that the extension could only go on the Kingsland.

[SO16_Saint]

When you consider that the going rate for a 3/4 bed detached house is circa 500k nowadays, a 32k seater stadium for the price we paid is a steal

[IFHP]

When you consider that the going rate for a 3/4 bed detached house is circa 500k nowadays, a 32k seater stadium for the price we paid is a steal

 

So was that 3/4 bedroom detached house in 2001.

[Faz]

When you consider that the going rate for a 3/4 bed detached house is circa 500k nowadays, a 32k seater stadium for the price we paid is a steal

 

Crikey. Feel free to make me an offer......

[krissyboy31]

 

I thought they told us that the extension could only go on the Kingsland.

 

No the foundations were put in to extend all 4 stands. The reason the Itchen is usually omitted is due to the extra cost of moving the boxes but in theory it could be done,

[aintforever]

To add on 8,000 seats, which was something being bandied around in Lowe's time, I believe they were saying it was going to be circa £3k per seat to do this, therefore a £24m outlay to bump on an additional 8,000 seats

 

If running Saints was a computer game I would have flogged Van Dyke for £60mill in the summer, spent £16mill on a replacement, £20mill on a new striker and bumped on a 8,000 seater second tier on the Kingsland. Sorted.

[Mattio]

Interesting old article, pre-allseater the Dell, the comments on how the Dell could only be expanded to 12,000 seater show how well they did fitting 15,000 in there. Also interested in the end we went for number 11.

 

 

 

http://www.dailyecho.co.uk/sport/14332554.PHOTOS__Plans_for_Saints__Stoneham_Stadium_25_years_on/

Edited 7 December, 2017 by Mattio

[John Boy Saint]

Interesting old article, pre-allseater the Dell, the comments on how the Dell could only be expanded to 12,000 seater show how well they did fitting 15,000 in there. Also interested in the end we went for number 11.

 

http://www.dailyecho.co.uk/sport/14332554.PHOTOS__Plans_for_Saints__Stoneham_Stadium_25_years_on/

 

I don't think it was a case of "in the end we went for number 11" I believe that number 11 was the only vague option left on the table after Lowe had joined the party buggered up Stoneham. which would have been perfect for transport, by adding the, on paper, sensible idea of a retail park to the development. This was manna from heaven for the Lib Dem bloke, who was vehemently opposed to the Stoneham option all along, and had been voted back into power for Eastleigh as Stoneham was entering the final straight, I think it had been rubber stamped by Ken Clarke but having lost the General Election to Labour, simplistically put, stuff like Stoneham could easily be put through the shredder.

All this left Saints with no options left, until the City Council pretty much gave Saints the old gasworks site where St Mary's now stands, I think the site was becoming a headache for them.

[ericb]

I don't think it was a case of "in the end we went for number 11" I believe that number 11 was the only vague option left on the table after Lowe had joined the party buggered up Stoneham. which would have been perfect for transport, by adding the, on paper, sensible idea of a retail park to the development. This was manna from heaven for the Lib Dem bloke, who was vehemently opposed to the Stoneham option all along, and had been voted back into power for Eastleigh as Stoneham was entering the final straight, I think it had been rubber stamped by Ken Clarke but having lost the General Election to Labour, simplistically put, stuff like Stoneham could easily be put through the shredder.

All this left Saints with no options left, until the City Council pretty much gave Saints the old gasworks site where St Mary's now stands, I think the site was becoming a headache for them.

 

We dodged a massive bullet by not going to Stoneham, an out of town ground would've been horrific and instead we moved back to our roots and in area walkable from the station for away fans and surrounded by pubs. In terms of locations i think St Mary's is probably one of the best located new grounds in the country to be honest.

[krissyboy31]

We dodged a massive bullet by not going to Stoneham, an out of town ground would've been horrific and instead we moved back to our roots and in area walkable from the station for away fans and surrounded by pubs. In terms of locations i think St Mary's is probably one of the best located new grounds in the country to be honest.

Not in terms of traffic and parking it's not.

 

Sent from my SM-A520F using Tapatalk

[CB Fry]

We dodged a massive bullet by not going to Stoneham, an out of town ground would've been horrific and instead we moved back to our roots and in area walkable from the station for away fans and surrounded by pubs. In terms of locations i think St Mary's is probably one of the best located new grounds in the country to be honest.

 

100% this - we are in the city itself and near to the church where we were born. It couldn't be more perfect.

 

I find it absolutely bizarre reading the small handful of people who eulogise and salivate about the prospect of the stadium being out of town, off a motorway sliproad and part of a retail trading estate.

 

Every single one of those types of stadium are miserable experiences and I thank the lord we have nothing like that.

 

I'm afraid I will never understand the thrill of going to a Frankie and Benny's, but clearly some of you love it. Fingers crossed Reading get promoted lads!!!!! I think there's a PC World right near it.

[simo]

Palace stadium looks fantastic!

 

Won't happen if you listen to Simon Jordan!

[rooney]

100% this - we are in the city itself and near to the church where we were born. It couldn't be more perfect.

 

I find it absolutely bizarre reading the small handful of people who eulogise and salivate about the prospect of the stadium being out of town, off a motorway sliproad and part of a retail trading estate.

 

Every single one of those types of stadium are miserable experiences and I thank the lord we have nothing like that.

 

I'm afraid I will never understand the thrill of going to a Frankie and Benny's, but clearly some of you love it. Fingers crossed Reading get promoted lads!!!!! I think there's a PC World right near it.

 

The meatballs at F & B taste as though they are made of sawdust.

[Sheaf Saint]

Sheffield United have announced plans to expand their ground to 38K capacity...

 

https://www.thestar.co.uk/our-towns-and-cities/sheffield/video-sheffield-united-unveil-plans-to-boost-bramall-lane-capacity-to-38-000-1-8898771

[Disco Stu]

Sheffield United have announced plans to expand their ground to 38K capacity...

 

https://www.thestar.co.uk/our-towns-and-cities/sheffield/video-sheffield-united-unveil-plans-to-boost-bramall-lane-capacity-to-38-000-1-8898771

 

Optimistic.

[spyinthesky]

100% this - we are in the city itself and near to the church where we were born. It couldn't be more perfect.

 

I find it absolutely bizarre reading the small handful of people who eulogise and salivate about the prospect of the stadium being out of town, off a motorway sliproad and part of a retail trading estate.

 

Every single one of those types of stadium are miserable experiences and I thank the lord we have nothing like that.

 

I'm afraid I will never understand the thrill of going to a Frankie and Benny's, but clearly some of you love it. Fingers crossed Reading get promoted lads!!!!! I think there's a PC World right near it.

 

CB

 

I agree with you in most respects.

 

The only things that would have been of benefit at Stoneham would have been proximity to Parkway Station and the fact that an impressive stadium would have been seen my millions of motorists a year passing by on the M27

[Charlie Wayman]

As far as I was aware (when SMS had the Visitor Centre) when it was being built. The foundations were laid to support up to 51,000 supporters, so technically they could expand to that number in the future. To add on 8,000 seats, which was something being bandied around in Lowe's time, I believe they were saying it was going to be circa £3k per seat to do this, therefore a £24m outlay to bump on an additional 8,000 seats, which would have only been able to go onto the Kingsland, Northam and Chapel ends due to the hospitality in the Itchen.

 

Looking at it in that way, its still not a huge cost compared to Palace's and I'm sure inflation would have bumped that price to £30m or beyond, But we wouldn't fill it at the present time!

 

You mention the visitor centre during the SMS build - I was in there one day in 2000 and lo and behold all of our top brass waltzed in with all of the Leicester City top brass and spent about an hour discussing every detail. Shortly after that Leicester committed to their near identical new stadium. Probably the design cost were shared to keep prices down?

[Matthew Le God]

Sheffield United have announced plans to expand their ground to 38K capacity...

 

https://www.thestar.co.uk/our-towns-and-cities/sheffield/video-sheffield-united-unveil-plans-to-boost-bramall-lane-capacity-to-38-000-1-8898771

 

Optimistic.

 

Bramall Lane has a very simiilar capacity to St Mary's, Sheff Utd are currently averaging similar to what Saints did in their Championship promotion season.

[Wurzel]

As far as I was aware (when SMS had the Visitor Centre) when it was being built. The foundations were laid to support up to 51,000 supporters, so technically they could expand to that number in the future. To add on 8,000 seats, which was something being bandied around in Lowe's time, I believe they were saying it was going to be circa £3k per seat to do this, therefore a £24m outlay to bump on an additional 8,000 seats, which would have only been able to go onto the Kingsland, Northam and Chapel ends due to the hospitality in the Itchen.

 

Looking at it in that way, its still not a huge cost compared to Palace's and I'm sure inflation would have bumped that price to £30m or beyond, But we wouldn't fill it at the present time!

 

You are correct. I knew someone high up in Barr Construction working on the SMS project. He described it in simplistic layman's terms as being built so at any time in the future it is just a case of unbolt and lift off the roof, extend vertical conduits for water/electric upwards, drop in new tier and replace roof. One advantage of an out of the box kit style stadium I guess. Applies to all 4 sides but Itchen is more complicated due to boxes etc, but not impossible.

[adrian lord]

St Mary's is a great location. Just enlarge if we need to. No way go for an out of town place.

[Tony F]

We dodged a massive bullet by not going to Stoneham, an out of town ground would've been horrific and instead we moved back to our roots and in area walkable from the station for away fans and surrounded by pubs. In terms of locations i think St Mary's is probably one of the best located new grounds in the country to be honest.

 

Out-of-town grounds seem to be great on paper but never work out that way. Look at Brighton's, supposedly "ideal location at the junction of A23 and A27". It is a frickin nightmare getting to and from the place. Huge park and ride schemes, all over subscribed - massive bun-fight for busses after the match. No siree.

 

To be able to walk from the city centre, or across the Itchen from the east as well as from places like Ocean Village make St Mary's a really good location. No ground is 100% without spectator inconvenience (from access/egress perspective) but ours comes about as close as any.....

[Mattio]

Out-of-town grounds seem to be great on paper but never work out that way. Look at Brighton's, supposedly "ideal location at the junction of A23 and A27". It is a frickin nightmare getting to and from the place. Huge park and ride schemes, all over subscribed - massive bun-fight for busses after the match. No siree.

 

To be able to walk from the city centre, or across the Itchen from the east as well as from places like Ocean Village make St Mary's a really good location. No ground is 100% without spectator inconvenience (from access/egress perspective) but ours comes about as close as any.....

I agree with this but they really do need to sort the bridge out behind the Northam stand, all they need to do is widen it and it'll solve 15 minutes of queues and crushing every match.

[saint1977]

Out-of-town grounds seem to be great on paper but never work out that way. Look at Brighton's, supposedly "ideal location at the junction of A23 and A27". It is a frickin nightmare getting to and from the place. Huge park and ride schemes, all over subscribed - massive bun-fight for busses after the match. No siree.

 

To be able to walk from the city centre, or across the Itchen from the east as well as from places like Ocean Village make St Mary's a really good location. No ground is 100% without spectator inconvenience (from access/egress perspective) but ours comes about as close as any.....

 

And although it isn't football, look at the Ageas Bowl as well. Like Brighton's stadium, a very attractive stadium but an absolute horror to get home from and Holiday Inn Express if you want something to eat (slightly better than Frankie and Benny's but not by much). In fact, it's worse as no station nearby either.

 

It's a wonderful facility and HCCC needed to move, but wasn't the best choice of site transport-wise, without major changes to infrastructure.

[The9]

Out-of-town grounds seem to be great on paper but never work out that way. Look at Brighton's, supposedly "ideal location at the junction of A23 and A27". It is a frickin nightmare getting to and from the place. Huge park and ride schemes, all over subscribed - massive bun-fight for busses after the match. No siree.

 

To be able to walk from the city centre, or across the Itchen from the east as well as from places like Ocean Village make St Mary's a really good location. No ground is 100% without spectator inconvenience (from access/egress perspective) but ours comes about as close as any.....

 

Actually I'd say Brighton's was the best out of centre ground there is - good transport links from Falmer with plenty of long trains and free transport for ticket holders, park and ride alternatives for those who want to drive (and parking at the University nearby for those who really don't like sharing), they've got the sense to leave the bar at the away end open after the game so there's no particular rush to get back to the station.

 

Leicester isn't far from the centre but the traffic is AWFUL for an hour either side and you can't get anywhere, Derby's and Boro's have basically nothing around them. Coventry's used to be the worst but there's now a train station at the Ricoh.

[The9]

And although it isn't football, look at the Ageas Bowl as well. Like Brighton's stadium, a very attractive stadium but an absolute horror to get home from and Holiday Inn Express if you want something to eat (slightly better than Frankie and Benny's but not by much). In fact, it's worse as no station nearby either.

 

It's a wonderful facility and HCCC needed to move, but wasn't the best choice of site transport-wise, without major changes to infrastructure.

 

The Ageas Bowl suffers hugely from Southampton's lack of public transport infrastructure, also I live under a mile from the place and it's still a 35 minute walk due to the daft road layout and lack of pedestrian access.

 

The food on site is ok if you want a naan bread or curry, or a burger and chips...

[70's Mike]

Actually I'd say Brighton's was the best out of centre ground there is - good transport links from Falmer with plenty of long trains and free transport for ticket holders, park and ride alternatives for those who want to drive (and parking at the University nearby for those who really don't like sharing), they've got the sense to leave the bar at the away end open after the game so there's no particular rush to get back to the station.

 

Leicester isn't far from the centre but the traffic is AWFUL for an hour either side and you can't get anywhere, Derby's and Boro's have basically nothing around them. Coventry's used to be the worst but there's now a train station at the Ricoh.

 

a lot of the free transport at Brighton we had when SMS was open, free bus travel, park and ride at Bursledon, but all gone now as will Brighton's in a few years

[rooney]

The queues at Brighton's ground for the Park and Ride are terrible and you have to wait ages .Bad if it is raining. It used to take us ages to get back to Ordinance Survey Park and Ride too after SMS matches particularly f the coach driver did not have Radio 5 live on.I gave upon this in the end.

[Shance]

So we've bumped this thread for someone else's stadium expansion then?? Great.

[IFHP]

Coventry's used to be the worst but there's now a train station at the Ricoh.

 

Which was closed on match days when when it 1st opened a couple of years ago. Has this now changed?

[Avenue_Saint]

So we've bumped this thread for someone else's stadium expansion then?? Great.

 

This

[CB Fry]

Actually I'd say Brighton's was the best out of centre ground there is - good transport links from Falmer with plenty of long trains and free transport for ticket holders, park and ride alternatives for those who want to drive (and parking at the University nearby for those who really don't like sharing), they've got the sense to leave the bar at the away end open after the game so there's no particular rush to get back to the station.

 

Leicester isn't far from the centre but the traffic is AWFUL for an hour either side and you can't get anywhere, Derby's and Boro's have basically nothing around them. Coventry's used to be the worst but there's now a train station at the Ricoh.

Must have been a different Brighton I spent more than an hour sat at a standstill in the car park.

 

Leicester is a similar-ish walking distance from city centre to SMS - bit longer but very walkable.

 

Derby can also be walked from town plus the added bonus of Subway AND Pizza Hut AND Kentucky AND Frankie AND Benny's.

[SuperSAINT]

Chairman Ralph mentioned Phase 1 of a St Mary's refurb will start this Summer.

 

[Mentioned in the email with Adam Blackmore].

 

Unknown if it's just a new bit of paintwork, or anything more substantial.

[S-Clarke]

I think it's to do with the hospitality suites. Nothing we'll notice.

[Guan 2.0]

Chairman Ralph mentioned Phase 1 of a St Mary's refurb will start this Summer.

 

[Mentioned in the email with Adam Blackmore].

 

Unknown if it's just a new bit of paintwork, or anything more substantial.

 

Installition of magnifying glasses around St Mary's as part of Ralph's pledge to make our tiny club bigger. #BestChairman