doddisalegend Posted 24 May, 2017 Share Posted 24 May, 2017 The definitive list of the 20 worst players in the Premier League this season from Claudio Bravo to Vincent Janssen We analysed data from the 2016/17 Premier League season to find the worst five players in each position on the pitch. http://www.bing.com/news/apiclick.aspx?ref=BDIGeneric&aid=C98EA5B0842DBB9405BBF071E1DA7651530FFE51&tid=433198A3127A4C2790F85EC912024E61&url=http%3a%2f%2fwww.independent.co.uk%2fsport%2ffootball%2fpremier-league%2fpremier-league-review-20-worst-players-player-ratings-stats-a7750956.html&c=2664347671742215297&mkt=en-gb No surprise to see our goal keeper and one of our strikers in that list. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John B Posted 24 May, 2017 Share Posted 24 May, 2017 Seems quite reasonable to me if these players had performed better we would have had a much better season and maybe Puel would not be under so much pressure if players do not perform to their usual standards it is hard on the manager Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doddisalegend Posted 24 May, 2017 Author Share Posted 24 May, 2017 Seems quite reasonable to me if these players had performed better we would have had a much better season and maybe Puel would not be under so much pressure if players do not perform to their usual standards it is hard on the manager It's a chicken and egg argument. Are they good players made to look bad by a poor manager. Or are they bad players making a good manager look poor.... Answer will depend on your agenda I guess... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angelman Posted 24 May, 2017 Share Posted 24 May, 2017 Long is an easy target. He doesn't score enough goals, but he does make teams play differently. I would say that that then allows others to score, but there was a paucity of goals the whole season. Forster - it is interesting how opinions differ. This article says he is the worst, others say that he is something like 7th best. As far as I can recall, he had one good game all season (away at WBA). If McCarthy wasn't off games, I wonder whether he would be between the sticks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lighthouse Posted 24 May, 2017 Share Posted 24 May, 2017 Long is an easy target. He doesn't score enough goals, but he does make teams play differently. I would say that that then allows others to score, but there was a paucity of goals the whole season. Forster - it is interesting how opinions differ. This article says he is the worst, others say that he is something like 7th best. As far as I can recall, he had one good game all season (away at WBA). If McCarthy wasn't off games, I wonder whether he would be between the sticks. We keep being told this. I'm not sure what part of being offside and sticking a shot into row Z allows others to score somehow. Maybe I just don't understand football. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S-Clarke Posted 24 May, 2017 Share Posted 24 May, 2017 It's a chicken and egg argument. Are they good players made to look bad by a poor manager. Or are they bad players making a good manager look poor.... Answer will depend on your agenda I guess... To be fair, I don't think any manager could have made Forster look decent this year....he has had a flaming disaster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperSAINT Posted 24 May, 2017 Share Posted 24 May, 2017 To be fair, I don't think any manager could have made Forster look decent this year....he has had a flaming disaster. I still can't work out if he has an injury or not. I almost hope he does, as that would at least explain it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skintsaint Posted 24 May, 2017 Share Posted 24 May, 2017 We keep being told this. I'm not sure what part of being offside and sticking a shot into row Z allows others to score somehow. Maybe I just don't understand football. Well one reason with SL up front, their defence won't push up as high as they might - creating more space in midfield.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skintsaint Posted 24 May, 2017 Share Posted 24 May, 2017 To be fair, I don't think any manager could have made Forster look decent this year....he has had a flaming disaster. Maybe he is just having a **** year, look at Hazard from Chelsea..was ****e last season, this season different story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheaf Saint Posted 24 May, 2017 Share Posted 24 May, 2017 Well one reason with SL up front, their defence won't push up as high as they might - creating more space in midfield.... More space for our midfielders to dither about in before passing sideways/backwards you mean? I still don't see the benefit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lloydie Posted 24 May, 2017 Share Posted 24 May, 2017 Both aren't surprising. I'd say Long is more down to the change in tactics from Koeman to Puel. Forster however, has a job to save shots. He failed massively at that job this season just gone and I hope the club have paid attention to not just him but also the GK coach who isn't doing much to address this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S-Clarke Posted 24 May, 2017 Share Posted 24 May, 2017 I still can't work out if he has an injury or not. I almost hope he does, as that would at least explain it. It might just be his walking style, but he always looks like he's limping around his goal when we're attacking/have a corner etc. Looks like he's stretching something out. I've heard numerous people say he has had a hip problem, which is why he can't get down as low. But you'd have thought if that was the case then he wouldn't be playing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperSAINT Posted 24 May, 2017 Share Posted 24 May, 2017 It might just be his walking style, but he always looks like he's limping around his goal when we're attacking/have a corner etc. Looks like he's stretching something out. I've heard numerous people say he has had a hip problem, which is why he can't get down as low. But you'd have thought if that was the case then he wouldn't be playing. Exactly. I remember saying this before, but if he is injured, it doesn't say much about our back-up options in the GK department. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crab Lungs Posted 24 May, 2017 Share Posted 24 May, 2017 I still can't work out if he has an injury or not. I almost hope he does, as that would at least explain it. He's always been pretty bad, he just hasn't had the protection of previous years shielding him Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simo Posted 24 May, 2017 Share Posted 24 May, 2017 As crap as Forster was this season , 2 more clean sheets and he'd have got the golden gloves ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The9 Posted 24 May, 2017 Share Posted 24 May, 2017 The definitive list of the 20 worst players in the Premier League this season from Claudio Bravo to Vincent Janssen We analysed data from the 2016/17 Premier League season to find the worst five players in each position on the pitch. http://www.bing.com/news/apiclick.aspx?ref=BDIGeneric&aid=C98EA5B0842DBB9405BBF071E1DA7651530FFE51&tid=433198A3127A4C2790F85EC912024E61&url=http%3a%2f%2fwww.independent.co.uk%2fsport%2ffootball%2fpremier-league%2fpremier-league-review-20-worst-players-player-ratings-stats-a7750956.html&c=2664347671742215297&mkt=en-gb No surprise to see our goal keeper and one of our strikers in that list. I love the way they say "We Scored only deal in cold, hard data". Well, they do, but they ascribe subjective weightings to that data to get their scores which may skew the results away from what Saints value, for instance I'm pretty sure part of the reason we bought Long was his defensive work and pressurising, for which he won't get much credit here as it's a difficult metric to measure. Having said that, it does support the xG and xS stats I've seen elsewhere about how poorly we've done in finishing and goals conceded per shot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The9 Posted 24 May, 2017 Share Posted 24 May, 2017 It's a chicken and egg argument. Are they good players made to look bad by a poor manager. Or are they bad players making a good manager look poor.... Answer will depend on your agenda I guess... Not really, there are stats based on historical goal data showing that we were awful at putting the ball in the net, nothing about chance creation or number of efforts on or off target, only "compared to historical shot data X many goals should have been scored" and Saints scoring far fewer than that even having created the chances. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The9 Posted 24 May, 2017 Share Posted 24 May, 2017 He's always been pretty bad, he just hasn't had the protection of previous years shielding him That's not true, we've not allowed that many more shots and we've conceded far more goals than we should have done from the positions the shots were taken. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The9 Posted 24 May, 2017 Share Posted 24 May, 2017 It might just be his walking style, but he always looks like he's limping around his goal when we're attacking/have a corner etc. Looks like he's stretching something out. I've heard numerous people say he has had a hip problem, which is why he can't get down as low. But you'd have thought if that was the case then he wouldn't be playing. I would imagine his "hip problem" is that his hips are that much further from the ground than most to begin with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HKsaint Posted 24 May, 2017 Share Posted 24 May, 2017 suprising Bofaul is not considered as one of the worst midfielder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The9 Posted 24 May, 2017 Share Posted 24 May, 2017 FWIW here's a plot of the "expected Goals" for the whole 2016/17 season: https://public.tableau.com/profile/freeman7264#!/vizhome/PremierLeague1617AttackingAnalytics/xGvChancesCreated As you can see, we're actually in the top 6 of number of chances created (11.267 per game, the same as Arsenal), which pushes up the number of goals you'd expect us to have scored. The deficit is when you draw the correlation line through the data points and see how far below "goals we should have scored" we are with "goals we actually scored". Also worth seeing that Arsenal's xG is much higher than ours from the same number of chances, which probably means they create better goal-scoring opportunities to begin with too. Man City's return from the number of chances they create is excellent, not that much of a surprise when you consider they've done a lot of stats work and data analysis so they probably have an idea of the most efficient chances to goals activities. The Aguerooooooooooo goal was one where the stats indicated he went from a 20% goal probability to 80% just by taking the extra touch nearer the goal-line, for instance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John B Posted 24 May, 2017 Share Posted 24 May, 2017 It's a chicken and egg argument. Are they good players made to look bad by a poor manager. Or are they bad players making a good manager look poor.... Answer will depend on your agenda I guess... You make a reasonable point but I cannot see how Puel has any affect on Forster not saving goals and Long missing them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rooney Posted 24 May, 2017 Share Posted 24 May, 2017 Forster need to go on a communication workshop with shouting practise on the agenda. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sidney Fudpucker the 3rd Posted 24 May, 2017 Share Posted 24 May, 2017 Janssen comes as no surprise. I saw him play for The Netherlands and thought he looked like one of those league 2 strikers who bagged 30 odd goals but simply couldn't make the step up to football at a higher level. I couldn't believe it when Spurs paid that much for him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toon Saint Posted 24 May, 2017 Share Posted 24 May, 2017 It might just be his walking style, but he always looks like he's limping around his goal when we're attacking/have a corner etc. Looks like he's stretching something out. I've heard numerous people say he has had a hip problem, which is why he can't get down as low. But you'd have thought if that was the case then he wouldn't be playing. Not sure if he is stretching anything out but he is constantly looking down at his shoes and pulling up his socks once the ball goes into the opposition half. Seems like an OCD tic or something given the amount it occurs, and it's not as if his socks are down by his ankles. I've seen him caught out a few times when the opposition suddenly counterattack at pace (especially Spurs away) as he's too busy concentrating on his socks. Ridiculous really. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nordic Saint Posted 24 May, 2017 Share Posted 24 May, 2017 The definitive list of the 20 worst players in the Premier League this season from Claudio Bravo to Vincent Janssen We analysed data from the 2016/17 Premier League season to find the worst five players in each position on the pitch. http://www.bing.com/news/apiclick.aspx?ref=BDIGeneric&aid=C98EA5B0842DBB9405BBF071E1DA7651530FFE51&tid=433198A3127A4C2790F85EC912024E61&url=http%3a%2f%2fwww.independent.co.uk%2fsport%2ffootball%2fpremier-league%2fpremier-league-review-20-worst-players-player-ratings-stats-a7750956.html&c=2664347671742215297&mkt=en-gb No surprise to see our goal keeper and one of our strikers in that list. The stats support the anecdotal evidence. Shane Long runs fast, doesn't score and passes the ball to the opposition. At his age, is there much chance of him improving next season? He really should be sold in the summer and replaced by a better striker if we want to score more goals next season. I'm a bit surprised that Fraser Foster is statistically the worst goalkeeeper in the league because he seems to keep a hell of a lot more clean sheets than any other goalkeeper we've had in recent years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doddisalegend Posted 24 May, 2017 Author Share Posted 24 May, 2017 The stats support the anecdotal evidence. Shane Long runs fast, doesn't score and passes the ball to the opposition. At his age, is there much chance of him improving next season? He really should be sold in the summer and replaced by a better striker if we want to score more goals next season. I'm a bit surprised that Fraser Foster is statistically the worst goalkeeeper in the league because he seems to keep a hell of a lot more clean sheets than any other goalkeeper we've had in recent years. Forster is only the 5th worst keeper in the league. The clean sheets isn't always down to the keeper so isn't always a good guide to his ability. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony F Posted 25 May, 2017 Share Posted 25 May, 2017 There are many ways to judge a goalie but statistically, shots vs saves is about the only measurable one. For me, much of this season Forster has shown no presence, no authority, no intention to even influence (let alone dominate) his penalty area. The mess up with Jack in the final game was a classic example. Its the job of the goalie, with clear view of what's in front, to take control, make a positive decision and relay that to his defenders. From time to time he may even leave his line (surprise!!!) and physically dominate the opposition. Fraser is not doing any of this. Stephens would have had an even better season if he was playing in front of a goalkeeper with these qualities. It is too much to ask at Prem level? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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