sadoldgit Posted 13 January, 2009 Share Posted 13 January, 2009 Because it is interesting to see how people compare. Of course you are not measuring like with like, but it does show those managers who managed to get the best of what they had in the divisions they were in. I suppose it winds up people like Alpine with agendas who want to tell us how rubbish someone like Burley was for example. Whilst I am not saying he was a best manager he was obvioulsy far from our worst. What wouldn't any of us give for 1.54 points per game whatever divsion we were in? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sadoldgit Posted 13 January, 2009 Share Posted 13 January, 2009 Oh dear god. Ah, you would be another one with an agenda then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saint1977 Posted 13 January, 2009 Share Posted 13 January, 2009 (edited) Branfoot for me. We had a decent squad, played good football and he ruined it. I've no doubt he was well meaning but his football philosophy produced the worst football I've seen. It was terrible. Look at the squad he inherited - it was a very good one. Think about if he'd kept Case instead of getting rid because he was perceived to be a threat and how on earth could he drop Le Tissier? I don't blame him for the sale of Shearer because that was always on the cards but buying Speedie and Dixon? About the only thing in his credit is buying Ken Monkou. Have to go with that. Didn't like Redknapp much, too negative but I was one of those that backed Burley for too long in the name of stability. Branfoot inherited a decent squad and turned it into a steaming pile of turd. Well done Guy Askham, another fine decision! Wigley and Gray were just clones, 2 peas from the same bland pod. The players didn't respect them and the fitness suffered. LM has to be my favourite, first boss I can remember and the only one to win anything. WGS for his charisma and passion, good record too. Hoddle did a fine job but sour leaving which was a shame. Dave Jones wasn't tactically the best and Lowe made the right decision however harsh on Dave in 2000 but Jones must be a contender for the best in the transfer market - Richards, Kachloul, Pahars, P Jones all for very little or free. He's been good at Wolves and Cardiff to boot. Nichol got a lot of stick post-Lawrie but we did get to 2 semi-finals and we had lots of GOOD young players coming through mixed with experienced players like Case. Entertaining football too, tactics were never Chris's forte and let down by the players in that disgraceful defeat at relegated Derby that let Branfart in. Edited 13 January, 2009 by saint1977 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slickmick Posted 13 January, 2009 Share Posted 13 January, 2009 You really do have a problem don't you Alpine. Bates and McMenemey both spent time in the lower reaches. McMenemy took what, three seasons to get promotion with the likes of Channon and Osgood in his squad. Another point you conveniently avoid is the fact that McMenemy was able to call on the highest calibre of players we ever had in the 80's. It is horses for courses. Burley had a CCC squad and played in the CCC remember? I still think that to "hate" someone you have never met and know nothing about apart from tittle tattle on an internet chat board shows signs of a disturbed psyche. You carry on hating him Alpine. He is still the most successful manager we have had in terms of points per game so it shows wher you are coming from. And as for tiisues of lies...what is it with you eh? You spend your life bending the facts to suit your warped agenda. You need to grow up Alpine and get a perspective. These are facts Alpine not your version of the facts. Maybe a fairer comparison would be to only include Lawries record in the second tier and compare that to Burleys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjsaint Posted 13 January, 2009 Share Posted 13 January, 2009 Wigley honestly did not seem to know what he was doing and was the most costly mistake. Gray wasn't much better but he came between two decent managers who buoyed up his poor results. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hunty Posted 13 January, 2009 Share Posted 13 January, 2009 Has to be Branfoot, no manager since has received as much abuse as he did(and fully deserved!). Just read the Ugly Inside fanzines of the time! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alpine_saint Posted 13 January, 2009 Share Posted 13 January, 2009 You really do have a problem don't you Alpine. Bates and McMenemey both spent time in the lower reaches. McMenemy took what, three seasons to get promotion with the likes of Channon and Osgood in his squad. Another point you conveniently avoid is the fact that McMenemy was able to call on the highest calibre of players we ever had in the 80's. It is horses for courses. Burley had a CCC squad and played in the CCC remember? I still think that to "hate" someone you have never met and know nothing about apart from tittle tattle on an internet chat board shows signs of a disturbed psyche. You carry on hating him Alpine. He is still the most successful manager we have had in terms of points per game so it shows wher you are coming from. And as for tiisues of lies...what is it with you eh? You spend your life bending the facts to suit your warped agenda. You need to grow up Alpine and get a perspective. These are facts Alpine not your version of the facts. I would have suggested that McMenemy being in the "lower reaches" and then having the "highest calibre" players somewhat cancels each other out. Also, the "highest calibre" players you refer to were arguably at least slightly past their peak, hence we coudl afford them in the first place. Oh, and Burley has a PL squad (costing PL amounts of money) in the CCC, in my opinion, which makes his acheivements even worse. You carry on with your superficial preoccupation with lying statistics why dont you, and leave the grown-ups to consider the more subtle and critical issues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alpine_saint Posted 13 January, 2009 Share Posted 13 January, 2009 Maybe a fairer comparison would be to only include Lawries record in the second tier and compare that to Burleys. An Big Lawrie got us promoted and won us the FA Cup. Case closed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alpine_saint Posted 13 January, 2009 Share Posted 13 January, 2009 Ah, you would be another one with an agenda then. Yes, we've all got an agenda...... Run along now.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saintstr1 Posted 13 January, 2009 Share Posted 13 January, 2009 Best Manager has to be Lawrie Mac just for what he acheived with the club...... Fa Cup win , League Cup Final(Runners up) , Promotion to Div 1 , Highest ever league finish, Plus all the great players he attracted to the club. Worst Manager , Rupert Lowe................ I Know, I Know, But he has been managing this season believe ME !! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sidthesquid Posted 13 January, 2009 Share Posted 13 January, 2009 Most under-rated manager ever - Chris Nicholl. Came in on the back of Lawrie's fading glory days, had to sell most of his big name players and start again with the kids - Franny, MLT, Dodd etc. Most clubs of our size in that situation inevitably fall on hard times & get relegated, but we didn't. Instead we expected him to do better than Lawrie, which he couldn't quite achieve and it was only after we replaced him with Branfoot, who almost tore his promising team apart, that we realised what a mistake we'd made. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dubai_phil Posted 13 January, 2009 Share Posted 13 January, 2009 Lol the way the thread got hijacked. The title is about opinion - ie most hated, not "who is statistically the best/worse" so it is about emotions and feelings engedered by the names. So Branfoot clearly for me is the most hated. He came in when we still felt we had a "right" to be successful and tried to turn us into a poor man's Wimbledon of the time by playing pinball. The worst for me is Burley, not for any other reason than I FEEL, he allowed something to "get to him" and so he lost interest around October/November of 2007. It was the time he lost interest that resulted in our collapse when we still felt we would push on. No professional in ANY walk of life should allow that to happen. Others may have been incapable or incompetent, he was just metally wrong. Wigley - EMOTIONALLY doesn't even rate a mention as it was all simply wrong, (anyway he was Head Coach (lol)) And Rednutt, nah he was the worst con-man we've seen, promising to do a job and then not delivering. Sort of in a MW role in my emotional view of things instead of analytical Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saint1977 Posted 13 January, 2009 Share Posted 13 January, 2009 Most under-rated manager ever - Chris Nicholl. Came in on the back of Lawrie's fading glory days, had to sell most of his big name players and start again with the kids - Franny, MLT, Dodd etc. Most clubs of our size in that situation inevitably fall on hard times & get relegated, but we didn't. Instead we expected him to do better than Lawrie, which he couldn't quite achieve and it was only after we replaced him with Branfoot, who almost tore his promising team apart, that we realised what a mistake we'd made. Don't think there was any "almost" about it! We were very lucky Branfoot's proposed swap for Fleck & MLT with SAINTS paying an adjustment didn't come off! Actually Branfoot deserves the most hated title for that alone! Agree on Nicholl, tough task to fill Lawrie's shoes and English football was in a post-Heysel slump, he did well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VectisSaint Posted 13 January, 2009 Share Posted 13 January, 2009 Lol the way the thread got hijacked. The title is about opinion - ie most hated, not "who is statistically the best/worse" so it is about emotions and feelings engedered by the names. Actually the thread title is most hated/or worst manager. So most hated is clearly subjective, about emotions etc., but worst can be a bit more objective, so the thread did not get hijacked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VectisSaint Posted 13 January, 2009 Share Posted 13 January, 2009 Because it is interesting to see how people compare. Of course you are not measuring like with like, but it does show those managers who managed to get the best of what they had in the divisions they were in. I suppose it winds up people like Alpine with agendas who want to tell us how rubbish someone like Burley was for example. Whilst I am not saying he was a best manager he was obvioulsy far from our worst. What wouldn't any of us give for 1.54 points per game whatever divsion we were in? Would love to see a breakdown of points per game (1) with Snodin and (2) without Snodin. I would be reasonably sure that "Burley's" record is boosted by the presence of one of the best assistant managers around. Burley is and was crap and we would already be in Division 3 if he had remained until the end of the season. Overweight, unfit players, says it all, Burley as a manager was useless, but not the worst, I still say that honour goes to the current incumbent (nice bloke though :yawinkle:). BTW it took Lawrie 4 seasons to get back to Div 1, not 3. And one of the reasons he got some of the highest calibre players was because he was one of the highest calibre managers at the time and he enthused these great players to join Saints, thats a vital part of being a good manager, having the personalit to attract good players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St Chalet Posted 13 January, 2009 Share Posted 13 January, 2009 We have all the nominations now, how about a poll? We could then select the most hated team! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scummer Posted 13 January, 2009 Share Posted 13 January, 2009 I would be reasonably sure that "Burley's" record is boosted by the presence of one of the best assistant managers around. Not sure what has led Glynn to such an elevated status. If he's that good, why has he been unemployed since September? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aintforever Posted 13 January, 2009 Share Posted 13 January, 2009 I don't know how there can even be any debate. Best: Big Mac - the only man ever to have won anything. Worst: Wigley - Apart from having the worst record this guy actually picked Brett Ormerod and Dexter Blackstock to play up front when Peter Crouch was on the bench. Most hated - Redknapp, Branfoot was **** but he wasn't **** enough to relegate us and didn't **** off to pompey. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saintwarwick Posted 13 January, 2009 Share Posted 13 January, 2009 With the squad he had we should have been considerably better of than 'safe'. That team that scrapped into the playoffs and then failed to hit the target from 12 yards consistantly SHOULD have been challenging for auto-promotions, not frigging luck of the draw. I was discussing Stanley's post of where we would be now if Burley was still in charge not what we should of achieved with the resources Burley had. HTH. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitey Grandad Posted 13 January, 2009 Share Posted 13 January, 2009 Branfoot for me. Not just for the 'football' but for not playing Le Tiss and depriving us of what might have been. We nearly 'lost' the two goals against Newcastle and I remember Moody at Highbury when Le Tiss was sitting on the bench. On the other hand, so many season ticket holders had given up because of him that I was able to get two prime seats in the Upper East stand. I don't hate Wigley or many of the others, because it wasn't their fault that they were awful and I don't blame them for having a go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mack rill Posted 13 January, 2009 Share Posted 13 January, 2009 No 1 Burley No 2 satchel Face Burley came across as as a manager who did not really want to be at Saints With the moneys he had you should of walked the fizzy instead he P*ssed it up the wall and jumped ship when the chance arrived, The only good thing about the scotch **** was the silly Jocks paid to take him off your hands. Redknapp,,,,,,,,,,Hes just a knut! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Castro Posted 13 January, 2009 Share Posted 13 January, 2009 Branfoot! - I still have my 'We want Branfoot out' T-Shirt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Windmill Arm 2 Posted 13 January, 2009 Share Posted 13 January, 2009 In terms of management, surely Rupert can be included, seeing as he seems to make regular squad selections, so I vote Rupert!!! If thats not allowed then it has to be Burley for being...........constantly ****ed from the play off semis to his long awaited departure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sadoldgit Posted 13 January, 2009 Share Posted 13 January, 2009 Yes, we've all got an agenda...... Run along now.... No Alpine we don't. Which is another reason why you come across as a blinkered bigot. If you think that a manager with a win ratio of 43% is rubbish so be it. But is speaks more about what you have going on than anything else. Someone on here once called you a characture of a fan, I can see why. You are so eaten up with bigotry you can't even look at the facts and make sense of them. I am not sure what is the saddest, the fact that you actualy seem to believe what you say or the fact that there are some people on here who actually agree with you. Irrespective of what division they have managed us in, only three managers have managed to average 1.5 points per game or more for us. The one with the highest average is, according to you, rubbish. What points ratio does a manager have to achieve in your eyes that makes him acceptable Alpine? 3 a game??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sadoldgit Posted 13 January, 2009 Share Posted 13 January, 2009 Would love to see a breakdown of points per game (1) with Snodin and (2) without Snodin. I would be reasonably sure that "Burley's" record is boosted by the presence of one of the best assistant managers around. Burley is and was crap and we would already be in Division 3 if he had remained until the end of the season. Overweight, unfit players, says it all, Burley as a manager was useless, but not the worst, I still say that honour goes to the current incumbent (nice bloke though :yawinkle:). BTW it took Lawrie 4 seasons to get back to Div 1, not 3. And one of the reasons he got some of the highest calibre players was because he was one of the highest calibre managers at the time and he enthused these great players to join Saints, thats a vital part of being a good manager, having the personalit to attract good players. Didn't Snodin go to Charlton??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sadoldgit Posted 13 January, 2009 Share Posted 13 January, 2009 An Big Lawrie got us promoted and won us the FA Cup. Case closed. Yes Alpine, but after taking us down and spending three years to get us back up with a squad not far off 1st division standard, you would have been on the web every then calling for his head. Burley never had players like Channon and Osgood to call on yet you slate him for not getting promotion in only one season. Now run along (in your parlance) and go and think about what you actually say on here, there's a good chap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mole Posted 13 January, 2009 Share Posted 13 January, 2009 Why do people persist with nonsense like this? Do you actually believe it? It's astounding people can be that blind. TSW and statistical spreadsheets is as close as SOG ever gets to watching Saints. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sadoldgit Posted 13 January, 2009 Share Posted 13 January, 2009 TSW and statistical spreadsheets is as close as SOG ever gets to watching Saints. I see them more times at St Marys than you do don't I Stanley? And if, like Alpine you think that 1.54 points per game is rubbish, perhaps you are better off at all of the other grounds where you chose to spend your money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mole Posted 13 January, 2009 Share Posted 13 January, 2009 I see them more times at St Marys than you do. You're the bestest SOG. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mower Posted 13 January, 2009 Share Posted 13 January, 2009 1. Redkunt - I hated him when he was here and even 3 years down the line, I still wish he was dead. 2. Branfoot - Well meaning but ignorant and pig headed. 3. Burley - Baffling waste of fresh air. The jocks are welcome to him. 4. Souness - Legend in his own mind...big time quitter. 5. Wigley and Gray - coaches not managers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaintRobbie Posted 13 January, 2009 Share Posted 13 January, 2009 As we seem to be doing the ex Saints players thing i thought how about the managers. Now we have seen a lot come and go in recent times and i have thought about this long and hard....ok a nano second and my candidate for worst/ most hated manager is.................................................................Redcrapp! Its either Harry for his lack of professionalism and relegation or Hoddle for his lack of loyalty. But, its Branfoot. The only other man at Southampton FC to be hated just slightly more than Mr Rupert Lowe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alpine_saint Posted 14 January, 2009 Share Posted 14 January, 2009 Someone on here once called you a characture of a fan, I can see why. Oh, the irony...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Badger Posted 14 January, 2009 Share Posted 14 January, 2009 Its either Harry for his lack of professionalism and relegation or Hoddle for his lack of loyalty. But, its Branfoot. The only other man at Southampton FC to be hated just slightly more than Mr Rupert Lowe. Have to say its a close call between those two for the most hated ,during their time at the club (which for most people would exclude Redknut and Hoddle). Branfoot was probably spared from relegating us by the sack.Lowe on the other hand has masterminded one relegation already,and not content with that... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slickmick Posted 14 January, 2009 Share Posted 14 January, 2009 Yes Alpine, but after taking us down and spending three years to get us back up with a squad not far off 1st division standard, you would have been on the web every then calling for his head. Burley never had players like Channon and Osgood to call on yet you slate him for not getting promotion in only one season. Now run along (in your parlance) and go and think about what you actually say on here, there's a good chap. No but Burley had £7m to buy good quality that should have been good enough to get us promoted. Not scrapping into 6th place on the last game of the season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saintwarwick Posted 14 January, 2009 Share Posted 14 January, 2009 No but Burley had £7m to buy good quality that should have been good enough to get us promoted. Not scrapping into 6th place on the last game of the season. Burley did spend well but not in the departments that saw us scrapping into the playoffs. We scored a lot of goals and played some great football but we conceded all too often and couldn't play consistantly. What Burley did achieve though was what he predicted , and the board accepted, was a play off place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saintwarwick Posted 14 January, 2009 Share Posted 14 January, 2009 You're the bestest SOG. He must be better than you, he puts money into the club unlike you. Under the circumstances it is more important funding your own club rather than a rival. Still in your simplistic view you wouldn't understand this logic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saintwarwick Posted 14 January, 2009 Share Posted 14 January, 2009 Oh, the irony...... From someone who invented the word Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greedyfly Posted 15 January, 2009 Share Posted 15 January, 2009 Burley did spend well but not in the departments that saw us scrapping into the playoffs. We scored a lot of goals and played some great football but we conceded all too often and couldn't play consistantly. What Burley did achieve though was what he predicted , and the board accepted, was a play off place. So in affect... he didn't spend well. Like I said previous (though the point was missed) he should have gotten that squad into or at least considerably closer to 1st or 2nd. What he said he would do was a simple case of a team playing down it's chances. I bet you any money that Ferguson has already rolled out the 'x,y,z team will probably win the league this year' quote, yet I bet they are the team sat at the top of the pile come the end of the season...If not they'll be bloody close. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sadoldgit Posted 15 January, 2009 Share Posted 15 January, 2009 No but Burley had £7m to buy good quality that should have been good enough to get us promoted. Not scrapping into 6th place on the last game of the season. Since when has money ever bought success??? If £7m was the price of promotion don't you think that better placed clubs would have "bought" promotion? Chelsea are a case in point. Huge amount of money spent to make make them the best, wher have they ended up? £9m wouldn't have guaranteed promotion. £6m million spent elsewhere might have done it. It is a gamble. Most gambles fail that is why bookies are richer than punters. When we Scarpped in to 6th place we were one of the better CCC teams but we were not consistant. Why? Who knows. If it waas a scientific formula I am sure ever club would have cracked it. Think back. Lawrie mcMenemy had players like Channon and Osgood but took three years to get out of the second division. Burley had none of that class. With the money at his disposal he was NEVER going to get it. In his second full season he lost Jones Bale and Baird with no hard cash to replace like for like. Burley said, fairly I think, that our plan was to get to the play offs. We did. If he had said we will get promoted he would have fallen short, but we reached our goal. What is your problem with that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sadoldgit Posted 15 January, 2009 Share Posted 15 January, 2009 He must be better than you, he puts money into the club unlike you. Under the circumstances it is more important funding your own club rather than a rival. Still in your simplistic view you wouldn't understand this logic. I don't think Stanley quit understands all of this but nice try. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sadoldgit Posted 15 January, 2009 Share Posted 15 January, 2009 Oh, the irony...... Alpine, you really set youself up don't you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alpine_saint Posted 15 January, 2009 Share Posted 15 January, 2009 Alpine, you really set youself up don't you? ...and the obsessive abuse continues.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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