Shroppie Posted 14 May, 2017 Share Posted 14 May, 2017 We were not negative, nor were we safety first. There was also nothing wrong with the substitutions. We played well, the more so considering we rested, or we're missing (at least at the start) VVD, Cedric, JWP, Davis, Redmond, Tadic, Gabbi, Austin, Stephens, all of whom would be considered regular starters. I dint see how anyone can use this game as a stick to beat Puel with - unless, of course, evidence is of no consequence. You're absolutely right. And there are plenty of disappointed moaners around today who are really struggling to find a credible criticism of yesterday. Still some repeating their mantra of negative football (it wasn't), wrong team (it worked well and rested players), wrong subs (Redmond was key) and I could go on but won't bother. It's fine to be critical if you've actually seen a game and there is something to criticise. But simply repeating the same soundbites regardless of the evidence is lazy, illogical and unintelligent. (But it seems to be working for Theresa May, but that's for another thread entirely) Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nordic Saint Posted 14 May, 2017 Share Posted 14 May, 2017 An away win is always a good result. It's been a very inconsistent season, in which we've found it hard to string 2 or 3 good performances together. But let's hope we can now, as 4 points from our final 2 home games should see us finish 8th and we'll all be happy with that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint-Fred Posted 14 May, 2017 Share Posted 14 May, 2017 18 goals in 9 games is 2 per match. I seem to recall be scored exactly that. And I accept we missed a penalty and could/should have had more. But we won comfortably. I'm not celebrating like we won the World Cup. Just happy with a win. What's wrong with that? Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk I agree it was a good performance.. Let's all just be happy! :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shroppie Posted 14 May, 2017 Share Posted 14 May, 2017 I agree it was a good performance.. Let's all just be happy! :-) Yeay! ? Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
View From The Top Posted 14 May, 2017 Share Posted 14 May, 2017 An away win is always a good result. It's been a very inconsistent season, in which we've found it hard to string 2 or 3 good performances together. But let's hope we can now, as 4 points from our final 2 home games should see us finish 8th and we'll all be happy with that. Our home form has been inconsistent but our away form has been pretty good. You can really see the game plan away from home. The same isn't always true for home games as since of the moaners only go to home games you can see why they're unhappy. As I do almost exclusively away games I've seen us play some good stuff this season and have been spared coughing out for the gash stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kermitsaint Posted 14 May, 2017 Share Posted 14 May, 2017 They barely got into our half before half time, and had absolutely no chances. Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk Were you there ? They may have lacked clear chances but they spent plenty of time in our half . Sent from my SM-G925I using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DT Posted 14 May, 2017 Share Posted 14 May, 2017 Great result. Although gets Puel through to summer at least... Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shroppie Posted 14 May, 2017 Share Posted 14 May, 2017 Were you there ? They may have lacked clear chances but they spent plenty of time in our half . Sent from my SM-G925I using Tapatalk Yes I was, and no they didn't. Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DT Posted 14 May, 2017 Share Posted 14 May, 2017 Perhaps he's more suited to setting teams up to win/get results away than home. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
washsaint Posted 14 May, 2017 Share Posted 14 May, 2017 Perhaps he's more suited to setting teams up to win/get results away than home. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk And I think that's been the issue this season. His tactics work a treat mainly - but only away from home. At home we try to play the same way and its too defensive - we should be more attacking at home but we're not. Hull was a good example of this - we sat back and Hull were happy to also sit back. Hopefully he gets another season - but his home tactics have to change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greedyfly Posted 14 May, 2017 Share Posted 14 May, 2017 Yet you all want the Hull manager who lost to a shocking Sunderland side who had just been relegated. This was a tricky game because many teams who have just been relegated tend to win their next games as they play with a bit more freedom. It's impossible to win with some people. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk I don't even know what this comment was in response to, but this comment is a misrepresentation of the job that Silva has done at Hull. No team, until last weekend, other than Spurs, had picked up more points in the time that Silva has been appointed (almost half a season). So if someone is clambering for him to be appointed there's a very good reason why. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suewhistle Posted 14 May, 2017 Share Posted 14 May, 2017 I have to say I'm confused. Rotation is bad, but some players need to be dropped because they're not playing well. But other players need to have a good long run in the side or they'll be 'rusty' and won't perform adequately. We shouldn't drop our best players, but others need to be given a chance. But we don't want rotation.. Is that a fair summary? Shane Long fairly sums up the position the club are in. Somebody with his speed who could also finish would be beyond our pocket. As it is, it's a team game and he worked hard, made an assist, made a penalty and the rest of the story we know, and it's a pretty fair metaphor for the wider situation. Tadic, one of our more creative players missed a penalty the other day, and didn't we all know that would happen? I hope we score a few on Wednesday, as it would be satisfying against a club who buy our player and then drop him following injury and lack of form. I mean, what's £30m, they'll just go and buy someone else. That's what we're competing against. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenilworthy Posted 14 May, 2017 Share Posted 14 May, 2017 Last season we took 26 points away from home, this season we took 23. That's not a lot of difference and as a regular away supporter I am reasonably happy. But as a season ticket holder I am not at all happy with the home form. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldNick Posted 14 May, 2017 Share Posted 14 May, 2017 I don't even know what this comment was in response to, but this comment is a misrepresentation of the job that Silva has done at Hull. No team, until last weekend, other than Spurs, had picked up more points in the time that Silva has been appointed (almost half a season). So if someone is clambering for him to be appointed there's a very good reason why.are you sure of that comment??? Especially as his away results would mean he lost nearly half the games Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Cool Posted 14 May, 2017 Share Posted 14 May, 2017 Arsenal winning means Stoke can't overhaul us. The lowest we can possibly finish is 13th Latest finishing position probabilities here http://www.sportsclubstats.com/England/Southampton.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beancounter saint Posted 14 May, 2017 Share Posted 14 May, 2017 I don't even know what this comment was in response to, but this comment is a misrepresentation of the job that Silva has done at Hull. No team, until last weekend, other than Spurs, had picked up more points in the time that Silva has been appointed (almost half a season). So if someone is clambering for him to be appointed there's a very good reason why. I looked this up today and, as far as I could make out, silva was appointed on Jan 5th when hull were 11 points behind saints and, as of today, the gap is exactly the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric The Red Posted 14 May, 2017 Share Posted 14 May, 2017 I don't even know what this comment was in response to, but this comment is a misrepresentation of the job that Silva has done at Hull. No team, until last weekend, other than Spurs, had picked up more points in the time that Silva has been appointed (almost half a season). So if someone is clambering for him to be appointed there's a very good reason why. I think you mean no team apart from Spurs have picked up more HOME points. Overall Hull under Silva have picked up 21 points in 17 games, good enough for mid table if you keep it going for a whole season not enough if you start from bottom place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Verbal Kint Posted 14 May, 2017 Share Posted 14 May, 2017 I don't know much about Silva and whether he'd be the right fit for us, but he has done an incredible job this season when you look at just how terrible the Hull squad is Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shroppie Posted 15 May, 2017 Share Posted 15 May, 2017 I have to say I'm confused. Rotation is bad, but some players need to be dropped because they're not playing well. But other players need to have a good long run in the side or they'll be 'rusty' and won't perform adequately. We shouldn't drop our best players, but others need to be given a chance. But we don't want rotation.. Is that a fair summary?. A brilliant analysis. Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greedyfly Posted 15 May, 2017 Share Posted 15 May, 2017 I think you mean no team apart from Spurs have picked up more HOME points. Overall Hull under Silva have picked up 21 points in 17 games, good enough for mid table if you keep it going for a whole season not enough if you start from bottom place. I did. Quite right. Away form was woeful still, but plenty good enough for a mid table finish despite them selling the player who was directly responsible for most of their goals, in January. Don't get me wrong, I am not championing Silva (nor would I be disappointed with his appointment) but lets not start looking at their relegation as his failure. It was a miracle he nearly rescued them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrfahaji Posted 15 May, 2017 Share Posted 15 May, 2017 (edited) Unfortunately the penalty miss has given rise to the familiar "if only" promises that have been quite common this season, including from me. We have been underwhelming at times but there has also been a sense that we're not far away from being good. If Long makes it 0-3, it would have been interesting to see how we played with more confidence. Instead Middlesbrough got a goal back and we were left being at least grateful for a win, but wondering what might have been. Again. The team selection seemed slightly odd, but with hindsight it proved to be the right call. I would, however, question why if these players are all good enough to be on the pitch together, why we haven't seen a bit more from the likes of Clasie and Hojbjerg before now. It would be good to see how they would fit or contribute in our strongest side. At times our 'reserves' looked a little rusty, but overall I think we can be pleased with how they fared. My main concern with Clasie is the second ball - he often loses out, whether due to lack of speed or strength, when the ball comes loose following a tackle/header. Hojbjerg is almost the opposite, he puts himself about but lacks a bit of finesse and composure when it comes to his final ball/decision. A classic example would be his inexplicable backheel to Boufal which followed a determined run that could have set up an attack, but instead of playing a simple ball inside, he flicks it out of play... Thought Caceres was decent, but was hardly the best game to really test him. He was accomplished and calm but was occasionally a little bit too calm and got himself in trouble. Pied also looked good, but again in this game it wasn't difficult to have a decent game at right back as there was a lot of space for him to get forward. He showed ok delivery at times but not enough (yet) to make me think we're definitely covered for RB should Cedric leave. Long, despite the penalty miss and his shocking first touch, had a pretty good game doing what he does best. Rodriguez, despite his nice goal, was pretty woeful throughout and it's remarkable how people can see the match stats and conclude he's still got it. I'm hoping that teams interested in buying him focus on these same stats rather than actually watching him play. Boufal was probably our most disappointing player as this should have been a game that suited him yet nothing he did really came off. I actually thought it was a game that would have suited Tadic, but Redmond's introduction also changed the game in our favour. Even though there were positives from an individual viewpoint, it is worth noting that Middlesbrough were dreadful, and not because we made them look so. They looked like a team with no strategy, no style, and few good players. Just a team of triers, but without the cohesion and direction that other 'tough' teams have about them. The fact that we laboured to a win over them should not be evidence that we are heading in the right direction (by the same token, I argued vehemently that other performances, eg home loss v West Ham, did not mean we were heading in the wrong direction), and apart from the period between our 2nd goal and the penalty, it was nothing more than an 'average' display, with plenty of the same frustrations that have been present in the last few weeks. We had enough about us to warrant winning the game, but how I would have liked to see us finish with a fluorish rather than hanging on. I'd like to see us play well for more than 5 minutes at a time, to feel like those glimpses of promise aren't going to stay agonisingly out of reach forever! Edited 15 May, 2017 by mrfahaji Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitey Grandad Posted 15 May, 2017 Share Posted 15 May, 2017 Unfortunately the penalty miss has given rise to the familiar "if only" promises that have been quite common this season, including from me. We have been underwhelming at times but there has also been a sense that we're not far away from being good. If Long makes it 0-3, it would have been interesting to see how we played with more confidence. Instead Middlesbrough got a goal back and we were left being at least grateful for a win, but wondering what might have been. Again. The team selection seemed slightly odd, but with hindsight it proved to be the right call. I would, however, question why if these players are all good enough to be on the pitch together, why we haven't seen a bit more from the likes of Clasie and Hojbjerg before now. It would be good to see how they would fit or contribute in our strongest side. At times our 'reserves' looked a little rusty, but overall I think we can be pleased with how they fared. My main concern with Clasie is the second ball - he often loses out, whether due to lack of speed or strength, when the ball comes loose following a tackle/header. Hojbjerg is almost the opposite, he puts himself about but lacks a bit of finesse and composure when it comes to his final ball/decision. A classic example would be his inexplicable backheel to Boufal which followed a determined run that could have set up an attack, but instead of playing a simple ball inside, he flicks it out of play... Thought Caceres was decent, but was hardly the best game to really test him. He was accomplished and calm but was occasionally a little bit too calm and got himself in trouble. Pied also looked good, but again in this game it wasn't difficult to have a decent game at right back as there was a lot of space for him to get forward. He showed ok delivery at times but not enough (yet) to make me think we're definitely covered for RB should Cedric leave. Long, despite the penalty miss and his shocking first touch, had a pretty good game doing what he does best. Rodriguez, despite his nice goal, was pretty woeful throughout and it's remarkable how people can see the match stats and conclude he's still got it. I'm hoping that teams interested in buying him focus on these same stats rather than actually watching him play. Boufal was probably our most disappointing player as this should have been a game that suited him yet nothing he did really came off. I actually thought it was a game that would have suited Tadic, but Redmond's introduction also changed the game in our favour. Even though there were positives from an individual viewpoint, it is worth noting that Middlesbrough were dreadful, and not because we made them look so. They looked like a team with no strategy, no style, and few good players. Just a team of triers, but without the cohesion and direction that other 'tough' teams have about them. The fact that we laboured to a win over them should not be evidence that we are heading in the right direction (by the same token, I argued vehemently that other performances, eg home loss v West Ham, did not mean we were heading in the wrong direction), and apart from the period between our 2nd goal and the penalty, it was nothing more than an 'average' display, with plenty of the same frustrations that have been present in the last few weeks. We had enough about us to warrant winning the game, but how I would have liked to see us finish with a fluorish rather than hanging on. I'd like to see us play well for more than 5 minutes at a time, to feel like those glimpses of promise aren't going to stay agonisingly out of reach forever! Interest that you thought Rodriguez was poor. The report in The Times this morning rated him as '8', more than any other of our players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrfahaji Posted 15 May, 2017 Share Posted 15 May, 2017 Interest that you thought Rodriguez was poor. The report in The Times this morning rated him as '8', more than any other of our players. I'll admit that there may be a little confirmation bias going on, though I do try to be objective! I found him to be generally ponderous in his movement and his passing/decision making throughout the game. The number of times we had the ball on the right, obviously trying to line up a cross, and he was completely still in the box. Only once the cross came in did he move towards it, generally half a yard behind the defender. I don't remember him ever getting in behind the defence - even though it's not his forte, he used to be capable of it. Another time that sticks out for me was when Romeu had advanced to a position about 40 yards from goal, looking for options. Rodriguez runs short and demands it (not bad), but then immediately, I think one touch, hits it back at Romeu with unnecessary pace on the ball. Romeu is then in exactly the same position as before, only with more pressure and with a difficult ball to control. He lost it, and Boro went on a break. I know that a single incident could be picked out for any player, but my frustration with Rodriguez is that so often the move breaks down when it reaches him, to the point it now seems inevitable, rather than being excited to what can happen when he gets it. As much as he took his goal well, he also missed a half-decent chance from the edge of the box. Since the start of the season he has been lacking in sharpness. There was hope for a long time that it was due to lack of fitness or even confidence, but it now looks (to me at least) that the sharpness has gone, and it's probably the most important ingredient for a successful striker to have in the Premier League. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikec Posted 15 May, 2017 Share Posted 15 May, 2017 Latest finishing position probabilities here http://www.sportsclubstats.com/England/Southampton.html Interesting. It seems that we are still likely to finish in the top 10 even if we lose our last 2 games. I suppose it helps that Bournemouth play Leicester on the last day so they cannot both overtake us unless Leicester beat Spurs on Thursday. Watford play at Chelsea tonight and they would need to win there to stand any chance of moving above us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shurlock Posted 15 May, 2017 Share Posted 15 May, 2017 Interest that you thought Rodriguez was poor. The report in The Times this morning rated him as '8', more than any other of our players. Player scores nice goal in otherwise dour performance and goal shocker. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graffito Posted 15 May, 2017 Share Posted 15 May, 2017 Player scores nice goal in otherwise dour performance and goal shocker. Was he involved in the second goal as well? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitey Grandad Posted 15 May, 2017 Share Posted 15 May, 2017 I'll admit that there may be a little confirmation bias going on, though I do try to be objective! I found him to be generally ponderous in his movement and his passing/decision making throughout the game. The number of times we had the ball on the right, obviously trying to line up a cross, and he was completely still in the box. Only once the cross came in did he move towards it, generally half a yard behind the defender. I don't remember him ever getting in behind the defence - even though it's not his forte, he used to be capable of it. Another time that sticks out for me was when Romeu had advanced to a position about 40 yards from goal, looking for options. Rodriguez runs short and demands it (not bad), but then immediately, I think one touch, hits it back at Romeu with unnecessary pace on the ball. Romeu is then in exactly the same position as before, only with more pressure and with a difficult ball to control. He lost it, and Boro went on a break. I know that a single incident could be picked out for any player, but my frustration with Rodriguez is that so often the move breaks down when it reaches him, to the point it now seems inevitable, rather than being excited to what can happen when he gets it. As much as he took his goal well, he also missed a half-decent chance from the edge of the box. Since the start of the season he has been lacking in sharpness. There was hope for a long time that it was due to lack of fitness or even confidence, but it now looks (to me at least) that the sharpness has gone, and it's probably the most important ingredient for a successful striker to have in the Premier League. Thanks for the details. It's always better to hear from someone who was actually there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie Wayman Posted 15 May, 2017 Share Posted 15 May, 2017 I am happy with Jrod. One goal and one assist (should be 2 if Long did not miss a sitter). We need a striker who can score goal. Given him a few chances, he no doubt can score at least one. Better than Long Tadic and Boufal, who cannot score. No matter how hardworking Long is, how magical Boufal can make and how many passes tadic can make, just waste of time! Jrod is the MoM I'll have a stiff gin & tonic and a little nap, then I'll read try to your comment again to see what sense can be made of it.. Beats me at the moment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kermitsaint Posted 15 May, 2017 Share Posted 15 May, 2017 I have to say I'm confused. Rotation is bad, but some players need to be dropped because they're not playing well. But other players need to have a good long run in the side or they'll be 'rusty' and won't perform adequately. We shouldn't drop our best players, but others need to be given a chance. But we don't want rotation.. Is that a fair summary? Shane Long fairly sums up the position the club are in. Somebody with his speed who could also finish would be beyond our pocket. As it is, it's a team game and he worked hard, made an assist, made a penalty and the rest of the story we know, and it's a pretty fair metaphor for the wider situation. Tadic, one of our more creative players missed a penalty the other day, and didn't we all know that would happen? I hope we score a few on Wednesday, as it would be satisfying against a club who buy our player and then drop him following injury and lack of form. I mean, what's £30m, they'll just go and buy someone else. That's what we're competing against. Its not the rotation thats really the issue . Its the utterly bizarre approach to it that causes problems . Redmond has played more games than any other outfield player . Puel seemingly drops players who have a good game but sticks with those who are poor . He doesn't grasp that certain players are ineffective if played together Sent from my SM-G925I using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Give it to Ron Posted 15 May, 2017 Share Posted 15 May, 2017 (edited) I think it was Jayrod who passed to Redmond Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk Edited 15 May, 2017 by Give it to Ron Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrfahaji Posted 15 May, 2017 Share Posted 15 May, 2017 Thanks for the details. It's always better to hear from someone who was actually there. I agree people who are actually at the game often notice things you can't see on television, but I cannot accept such deference this time, as I wasn't. I would say this though, it was an excellent stream. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldNick Posted 15 May, 2017 Share Posted 15 May, 2017 Its not the rotation thats really the issue . Its the utterly bizarre approach to it that causes problems . Redmond has played more games than any other outfield player . Puel seemingly drops players who have a good game but sticks with those who are poor . He doesn't grasp that certain players are ineffective if played together Sent from my SM-G925I using TapatalkRedmond derserves to be one of the first on the teamsheet. IMO he is one player who is worth the entrance fee to watch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heisenberg Posted 15 May, 2017 Share Posted 15 May, 2017 Redmond derserves to be one of the first on the teamsheet. IMO he is one player who is worth the entrance fee to watch. wit is the highest form of sarcasm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldNick Posted 15 May, 2017 Share Posted 15 May, 2017 wit is the highest form of sarcasm. don't highlight your lack of assessing a players ability . I always thought the saying was sarcasm is the highest form of wit lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heisenberg Posted 15 May, 2017 Share Posted 15 May, 2017 don't highlight your lack of assessing a players ability . I always thought the saying was sarcasm is the highest form of wit lol Was kidding mate. We all know he's the new Henry.... A solid 6.5 outta 10 each week. Redmond is Mr reliable Mane who?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldNick Posted 15 May, 2017 Share Posted 15 May, 2017 Was kidding mate. We all know he's the new Henry.... A solid 6.5 outta 10 each week. Redmond is Mr reliable Mane who?? depends who is marking him I suppose to get to 6.5 out of 10. If it is you then that is 9 in most decent judges ratings lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heisenberg Posted 15 May, 2017 Share Posted 15 May, 2017 depends who is marking him I suppose to get to 6.5 out of 10. If it is you then that is 9 in most decent judges ratings lol Yep or 6.99 average from an independent https://www.whoscored.com/Players/86425/History/Nathan-Redmond Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shurlock Posted 15 May, 2017 Share Posted 15 May, 2017 Yep or 6.99 average from an independent https://www.whoscored.com/Players/86425/History/Nathan-Redmond And the top player in the league only averages 7.80. #splittinghairs #17thisthenew18th. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitey Grandad Posted 15 May, 2017 Share Posted 15 May, 2017 don't highlight your lack of assessing a players ability . I always thought the saying was sarcasm is the highest form of wit lol 'Lowest form of wit' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldNick Posted 15 May, 2017 Share Posted 15 May, 2017 'Lowest form of wit'when I'm doing it, it is the highest Whitey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitey Grandad Posted 15 May, 2017 Share Posted 15 May, 2017 when I'm doing it, it is the highest Whitey Only if you're standing on your head and whistling out of you ar5e (I'm too old for that sort of thing these days) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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