Saints 0 Hull 0 - Match & Reactions Thread

[Whitey Grandad]

Yesterday the problem was very straightforward .

 

Cedric and Bertrand couldnt be arsed to go forward so no overlapping which is critical to how we play .........and the midfield was over run because we had three prima donas playing up front which left OR and SD doing it all

 

Yep. A bloody great hole in midfield. We never had any control on the game.

[Delmary]

Yesterday the problem was very straightforward .

 

Cedric and Bertrand couldnt be arsed to go forward so no overlapping which is critical to how we play .........and the midfield was over run because we had three prima donas playing up front which left OR and SD doing it all

 

This.

 

The shape and team was all wrong. We lost the battle in midfield, very surprised that the manager didn't react to this.

[fanimal]

The formation was no different to the second half v Bompey where 2 got overran by 5. So basic. same result. You have to learn from mistakes not repeat them!!

[austsaint]

Can't believe that more haven't noted that it was Ward-Prowse's absence that lost the team cohesion.

 

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Just not true. Ward-Prowse has played the last 3 -4 games in a wide right wing position and had very little influence. Trying to fit him into that position has upset our mid-field balance. One of either Hoj or Clasie should have been employed to partner Romeu freeing up Davis for less holding responsibility. Our midfield has been overrun in the past month.

[Charlie Wayman]

I'll be glad when this season is over and Puel is just a memory, Leibherr will have sold up to somebody who actually cares about winning something, Kreuger behaves like the great communicator he claims to be and tells us something / anything of genuine value, we have players who want to play and stay with our club, the fans opinions matter, it is a pleasure once again to walk up to St Mary's on match day, that bloody "My Way" has been binned, the PA system does not deafen us all and is comprehensible and we don't have to agonise about whether or not to renew our season tickets!

 

The match yesterday? I loved the bit in the middle with the kids racing around with footballs, only bright spell in a waste afternoon.

[Charlie Wayman]

Can't believe that more haven't noted that it was Ward-Prowse's absence that lost the team cohesion.

 

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Tongue in cheek or a wind-up hopefully.

 

Many will also have noticed Shroppie that without poster boy on the pitch we were able to keep a clean sheet.

[S-Clarke]

Tongue in cheek or a wind-up hopefully.

 

Many will also have noticed Shroppie that without poster boy on the pitch we were able to keep a clean sheet.

 

Don't be dumb.

[Toomer]

Yep. A bloody great hole in midfield. We never had any control on the game.

 

We got bullied in midfield don't think we won a second ball all game.

[beatlesaint]

This.

 

The shape and team was all wrong. We lost the battle in midfield, very surprised that the manager didn't react to this.

 

He rarely reacts, he's stubborn, he picks a formation that he believes will work and if it doesn't he tends to change personnel, like for like. The only time he's really changed it is the two games against Bournemouth and Man City when he took off a midfielder (JWP) and put on a more attacking option which has left us open. We only got away with it against Bournemouth because they couldn't hit a barn door that day.

[S-Clarke]

This.

 

The shape and team was all wrong. We lost the battle in midfield, very surprised that the manager didn't react to this.

 

It was very much like that when I saw the team, balls on the line kind of selection. We didn't have a midfield and it was always going to be a case of a Tadic/Boufal/Redmond having the game of their lives, the fact we carried all 3 for most of the game is why we struggled. There was no basis for a performance to be built from, the lack of midfield meant that the gap between the midfield and attack was even greater than normal. It was near on impossible to service Gabbiadaini, especially when Redmond/Tadic both had awful days.

 

This was more of an extreme illustration, but it's been our problem all year. The gap between the rest and the attack is always too big, we control the ball in the centre back positions, through to central midfield..but then the gap is too big, so it slows down and there isn't the ability to quickly link.

 

This is personally why I'd play Hoj or Clasie alongside Romeu and if Davis plays, it has to be in place of a Tadic/Boufal - because he can be that link, and that's what he has done for us in previous season. He is not a PL central midfielder, he's an attacking midfielder and thats where he needs to be deployed.

 

Now, if we could evolve Davis's position with someone like Siguardson...

[austsaint]

It was very much like that when I saw the team, balls on the line kind of selection. We didn't have a midfield and it was always going to be a case of a Tadic/Boufal/Redmond having the game of their lives, the fact we carried all 3 for most of the game is why we struggled. There was no basis for a performance to be built from, the lack of midfield meant that the gap between the midfield and attack was even greater than normal. It was near on impossible to service Gabbiadaini, especially when Redmond/Tadic both had awful days.

 

This was more of an extreme illustration, but it's been our problem all year. The gap between the rest and the attack is always too big, we control the ball in the centre back positions, through to central midfield..but then the gap is too big, so it slows down and there isn't the ability to quickly link.

 

This is personally why I'd play Hoj or Clasie alongside Romeu and if Davis plays, it has to be in place of a Tadic/Boufal - because he can be that link, and that's what he has done for us in previous season. He is not a PL central midfielder, he's an attacking midfielder and thats where he needs to be deployed.

 

Now, if we could evolve Davis's position with someone like Siguardson...

 

Agree with you, but where does this leave JWP in your line up? Don't you agree that the playing of JWP wide right has upset the balance of midfield; because effectively he has taken the place of either Hoj or Clasie playing alongside Romeu - a position JWP isn't suited to.

[S-Clarke]

Agree with you, but where does this leave JWP in your line up? Don't you agree that the playing of JWP wide right has upset the balance of midfield; because effectively he has taken the place of either Hoj or Clasie playing alongside Romeu - a position JWP isn't suited to.

 

Gabba up top, 3 behind of Redmond (or tadic/or boufal), Davis, JWP. Then Hoj or Clasie in alongside Romeu.

[Red]

The attacking three were too deep when the ball went forward but nowhere to be seen when it was cleared from our box.

Gabbiadini did nothing by the way - the reaction to his sub was ridiculous, he needed to come off.

 

How can you do something when you get no service?? He was shouting for the ball all game, and all Cedrick and others did was pass the ball backwards to the CB's who then got closed down by Hull forwards - time and again. All I can think is this was the managers instructions?? Gabbi then started dropping deeper to get the ball himself, which is not where you want your forward to do, specially at home with four front men. Why bother having such an attacking line up and then play completely defensively??

 

I was very hopeful with the Puel appointment given his reputation of developing young players etc. and when we supposedly rejected many well known names, but I am really struggling now. I enjoyed watching our fast attacking, passing and pressing style of play even if we lost, but this is just painful. I believe as usual we have gone for the cheap option and tried to sell it as more "emperor's new cloths". Just hope they new owners are more ambitious.

[Whitey Grandad]

How can you do something when you get no service?? He was shouting for the ball all game, and all Cedrick and others did was pass the ball backwards to the CB's who then got closed down by Hull forwards - time and again. All I can think is this was the managers instructions?? Gabbi then started dropping deeper to get the ball himself, which is not where you want your forward to do, specially at home with four front men. Why bother having such an attacking line up and then play completely defensively??

 

I was very hopeful with the Puel appointment given his reputation of developing young players etc. and when we supposedly rejected many well known names, but I am really struggling now. I enjoyed watching our fast attacking, passing and pressing style of play even if we lost, but this is just painful. I believe as usual we have gone for the cheap option and tried to sell it as more "emperor's new cloths". Just hope they new owners are more ambitious.

 

Playing one up front at home and nobody getting up to support him is never going to lead anywhere.

[Wade Garrett]

How can you do something when you get no service?? He was shouting for the ball all game, and all Cedrick and others did was pass the ball backwards to the CB's who then got closed down by Hull forwards - time and again. All I can think is this was the managers instructions?? Gabbi then started dropping deeper to get the ball himself, which is not where you want your forward to do, specially at home with four front men. Why bother having such an attacking line up and then play completely defensively??

 

I was very hopeful with the Puel appointment given his reputation of developing young players etc. and when we supposedly rejected many well known names, but I am really struggling now. I enjoyed watching our fast attacking, passing and pressing style of play even if we lost, but this is just painful. I believe as usual we have gone for the cheap option and tried to sell it as more "emperor's new cloths". Just hope they new owners are more ambitious.

 

It does seem to be one of the few Les Reed decisions that isn't working out that well. There haven't been that many, to be fair.

[Chez]

We got bullied in midfield don't think we won a second ball all game.

the Wanyama/Morgan days of midfield domination seem such a long time ago now. We are desperately in need of some help for Romeu. Davis, Classie, JWP and Hoj just do not enable us to control a game without flooding the midfield and leave us short offensively.

[kermitsaint]

Can't believe that more haven't noted that it was Ward-Prowse's absence that lost the team cohesion.

 

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We generally seem to lack cohesion whether he plays or not . We are rarely balanced and imho if Prowse is the answer then we are in a serious pickle

 

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[Trout-Tickler]

It was very much like that when I saw the team, balls on the line kind of selection. We didn't have a midfield and it was always going to be a case of a Tadic/Boufal/Redmond having the game of their lives, the fact we carried all 3 for most of the game is why we struggled. There was no basis for a performance to be built from, the lack of midfield meant that the gap between the midfield and attack was even greater than normal. It was near on impossible to service Gabbiadaini, especially when Redmond/Tadic both had awful days.

 

This was more of an extreme illustration, but it's been our problem all year. The gap between the rest and the attack is always too big, we control the ball in the centre back positions, through to central midfield..but then the gap is too big, so it slows down and there isn't the ability to quickly link.

 

This is personally why I'd play Hoj or Clasie alongside Romeu and if Davis plays, it has to be in place of a Tadic/Boufal - because he can be that link, and that's what he has done for us in previous season. He is not a PL central midfielder, he's an attacking midfielder and thats where he needs to be deployed.

 

Now, if we could evolve Davis's position with someone like Siguardson...

 

Agree completely. I can forgive Puel for playing Redmond, Tadic, Boufal and Gabby but it was clear from early on that it wasn't working. He should've have changed it at ht and brought on PEH for either Tadic, Boufal or Redmond. It wasn't working why not change it?

[RedWillie]

Heads will roll, the players don't like Puell. You can see it in their body language

[Badger]

Heads will roll, the players don't like Puell. You can see it in their body language

 

Is anyone taking notice though, or is the attention elsewhere on ownership

[eelpie]

Heads will roll, the players don't like Puell. You can see it in their body language

 

When we are playing like relegation candidates who have lost the plot as a result of poor team selections, lack of motivation and inspiration, someone in Saints hierarchy has to notice and take action. The teams below us will overtake us on current form.

[Sour Mash]

Playing one up front at home and nobody getting up to support him is never going to lead anywhere.

Most teams play one up front these days, regardless of whether home or away. A line up of Gabbiadini, Tadic, Redmond, Boufal is attacking enough, I didn't think many people were upset or concerned when our line-up was announced.

[Whitey Grandad]

Most teams play one up front these days, regardless of whether home or away. A line up of Gabbiadini, Tadic, Redmond, Boufal is attacking enough, I didn't think many people were upset or concerned when our line-up was announced.

 

No particular problem playing just the one up front but failing to support that player is feeble. I counted several times when the ball was played through to Gabbi who then turned round to see eight Hull players and none of ours.

[Charlie Wayman]

Don't be dumb.

 

Not dumb, any two facts can be stitched together to make a case for whatever you want. That's what I was pointing out to Shroppie.

 

Cause and effect are much harder to establish. JWP's presence or absence on the pitch yesterday had no bearing g on the outcome whatsoever as well you know!

[Shroppie]

JWP's presence or absence on the pitch yesterday had no bearing on the outcome whatsoever as well you know!

 

That's not true.

 

We do know that, without him, we played badly. Accepted that does not imply that, with him, we would have played better.

 

But although we don't know that his presence would have made things better we certainly don't know that it wouldn't because that was never tested.

 

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[Andy Durman]

Sometimes you have to change the system

 

We have the players to go 3-5-2.

 

I despair at the moment.

[Whitey Grandad]

Not dumb, any two facts can be stitched together to make a case for whatever you want. That's what I was pointing out to Shroppie.

 

Cause and effect are much harder to establish. JWP's presence or absence on the pitch yesterday had no bearing g on the outcome whatsoever as well you know!

 

I think that JWP in the middle would have been better than Boufal or Tadic out wide.

[the saint in winchester]

This.

 

The shape and team was all wrong. We lost the battle in midfield, very surprised that the manager didn't react to this.

 

"Reacting to this" or indeed affecting the game once 'in play' doesn't seem to be Puel's strongest point. All he ever does is replace like for like. When a change is needed it's a change of shape to confuse the opponent...but he just doesn't do that.

[Saint-Fred]

"Reacting to this" or indeed affecting the game once 'in play' doesn't seem to be Puel's strongest point. All he ever does is replace like for like. When a change is needed it's a change of shape to confuse the opponent...but he just doesn't do that.

 

Are they like for like? Where was Sims playing against Hull?

[captainchris]

Sometimes you have to change the system

 

We have the players to go 3-5-2.

 

I despair at the moment.

 

Well played Andy, totally agree but Puel is not a sophisticated enough coach to deploy such a good idea......

Agree with many on here that he just doesn't see what is happening in games.

[Window Cleaner]

Well played Andy, totally agree but Puel is not a sophisticated enough coach to deploy such a good idea......

Agree with many on here that he just doesn't see what is happening in games.

 

Now I watched Nice beat Paris St Germain yesterday and the commentators were saying tha the current Nice side which is

3rd in the table and thus in line for a CL place is all down to Puel's work with the players. Perhaps it's Saints that don't have the kind of player he needs to make the side progress, I really don't know but if you have players on huge salaries who can't save a fairly straightforward shot or sink a last minute penalty or stay onside then the task is complicated.

Edited 1 May, 2017 by Window Cleaner

[St.JonB]

Now I watched Nice beat Paris St Germain yesterday and the commentators were saying tha the current Nice side which is

3rd in the table and thus in line for a CL place is all down to Puel's work with the players. Perhaps it's Saints that don't have the kind of player he needs to make the side progress, I really don't know but if you have players on huge salaries who can't save a fairly straightforward shot or sink a last minute penalty or stay onside then the task is complicated.

 

Slightly confused by this. Are you saying that Nice already have 14 more points than last season when Puel was in charge, because Puel improved the players?

[Window Cleaner]

Slightly confused by this. Are you saying that Nice already have 14 more points than last season when Puel was in charge, because Puel improved the players?

 

I am not saying anything, I'm telling you what the "expert" commentators said. The fact that I qualified this by saying "I don't really know" wasn't as obvious as I thought then.

What is evident is that we have players putting in sub par performances. Now whether that's because they're injured but still playing or that our season ended with the League Cup final is open for discussion.

[Saint-Fred]

Now I watched Nice beat Paris St Germain yesterday and the commentators were saying tha the current Nice side which is

3rd in the table and thus in line for a CL place is all down to Puel's work with the players. Perhaps it's Saints that don't have the kind of player he needs to make the side progress, I really don't know but if you have players on huge salaries who can't save a fairly straightforward shot or sink a last minute penalty or stay onside then the task is complicated.

 

I am sure the current manager would argue that he had something to do with it?

I wonder if the fans would swap their current manager for Puel?

[Window Cleaner]

I am sure the current manager would argue that he had something to do with it?

I wonder if the fans would swap their current manager for Puel?

 

Favre ? Swiss bloke who's had a fair few managerial jobs, some good, some not so much but he's certainly done well at Nice.

Seems to have been able to get Balotelli to score a few goals and not make a complete dîck of himself off the field. Just for that the bloke deserves a fair bit of credit.

[PeteCampbell]

We missed JWP, wherever he plays he gives us more control and is a good complement to Redmond

[Shroppie]

We missed JWP, wherever he plays he gives us more control and is a good complement to Redmond

Totally with you there. It's not just about the flair players. JWP, and Davis, are important for keeping moves alive, playing the simple ball well, being available for passes and linking play.

 

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[Lighthouse]

Has anyone mentioned Cedric's little Cruyff turn in the second half? The one where he fell over the ball and somehow came out facing the right way in clear space.

[vectraman]

I am not saying anything, I'm telling you what the "expert" commentators said. The fact that I qualified this by saying "I don't really know" wasn't as obvious as I thought then.

What is evident is that we have players putting in sub par performances. Now whether that's because they're injured but still playing or that our season ended with the League Cup final is open for discussion.

 

And it is down to the manager to inspire and motivate, to ensure the players perform to a high standard, which we did not see on Saturday.

If they are injured, they should not be playing as we have plenty of squad players not getting a look in.

If they aren't performing because they don't buy into the manager, well that's a different problem...

[musesaint]

Saturday's game approached the worst I've seen from Saints all season. Truly awful. Totally boring. Completely devoid of any creative plan.

 

Apart from that, well worth the trip to SMS

[Give it to Ron]

And it is down to the manager to inspire and motivate, to ensure the players perform to a high standard, which we did not see on Saturday.

If they are injured, they should not be playing as we have plenty of squad players not getting a look in.

If they aren't performing because they don't buy into the manager, well that's a different problem...

Far too sensible a post don't you know Puel is exempt from ANY criticism because we got to a cup final!

I am not a Clasie fan but how would you feel if you had played well scored the winner yet don't play 1 minute in next 3 games good man management?

 

 

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[Heisenberg]

Far too sensible a post don't you know Puel is exempt from ANY criticism because we got to a cup final!

I am not a Clasie fan but how would you feel if you had played well scored the winner yet don't play 1 minute in next 3 games good man management?

 

 

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Same could be said for Josh Sims - had that brilliant debut back in November and has been given a total 90 minutes since.

 

Shane Long too:

Scored against WBA next game bench

Scored against Swansea next game bench

Scored against Sunderland next game bench

 

Jay was also benched after his goal vs Sunderland and Leicester and taken off early after his double at AFCB and benched next game.

 

Redmond however gets 12 starts for every goal he scores.

[shurlock]

Most of those goals came when we were rotating and juggling multiple competitions.

 

Shane Long has been garbage this season - for me, he's been lucky to even start games.

[DT]

Far too sensible a post don't you know Puel is exempt from ANY criticism because we got to a cup final!

I am not a Clasie fan but how would you feel if you had played well scored the winner yet don't play 1 minute in next 3 games good man management?

 

 

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Exactly. Utterly mystifying, especially when we needed bite in midfield, not the Tadic and Boufal tippy tap show. He has to go.

 

 

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[S-Clarke]

Most of those goals came when we were rotating and juggling multiple competitions.

 

Shane Long has been garbage this season - for me, he's been lucky to even start games.

 

He hasn't helped himself at all this season, he has been pants. He's never been a prolific goal scorer and last season was probably more of a fluke....5-10 goals is about his standard return at this level. What you do get from him that no one else gives us is pace, running the channels, pressing etc. He'll do that until he dies, but for his pressing and harrying to be effective you need better players in and around him to take advantage of the mistakes he gets out of CB's. We don't play that way this year, and that's why his play has looked even more poor than usual.