General election? June 8th?

[Nolan]

New yougov poll...

 

Con 48%

Lab 24%

Lib 12%

Ukip 7%

Other 9%

 

 

 

 

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[CB Fry]

Ok, but didn't think I saw any mention of the SNP there, and Crankie seems open to the suggestion.

 

I can't see Corbyn's Labour having a chance on its own. I think there's enough anti-tory feeling in the country right now for there to be a successful coalition agreement if they could only get their acts together.

Dear me. The very idea of a mish-mash jumble of Krankie, Steptoe, Lucas and Farron is only going to send even more running to the Tories. No one wants that. I'm not pro-Tory but that would be a bloody mess.

 

GE17 is going to be a clusterfu ck for every other party other then the Tories, who will annihilate every other party.

 

The Tories will clean up in lots of Con/Lab marginals in the Midlands and North. Labour will just get decimated in any seat where the majority is say 4,000 or less. Southampton Test for example.

 

The Lib Dems will fail because they are hamstrung by having to stick to one singular message rather than pretending to be a different party in different constituencies depending on who they are competing with. They won't claw back many seats because their previous Westcountry strongholds all voted leave. They might pick up some metropolitan Labour seats. They will scramble back to pre-1997 levels of 20 or so seats and irrelevance again.

 

UKIP will be virtually seat-less again because Nutall is hopeless and May has stolen all their clothes. No real reason to exist. Maybe 3 seats in Labour areas or if Farage finally gets in.

 

I expect the impressive Ruth D to steal a couple more seats from Krankie based on the SNPs terrible domestic record and fightback against Indyref2.

 

Greens keep Brighton again and that one in Norwich from Labour they nearly got last time, so they'll be happy.

 

It's really only the fact that the SNP will get another 40 odd seats that will stop May getting Blair/Thatch levels of domination.

 

For a died in the wool centre left social democrat its all somewhat sickening because this isn't the country I want my children to grow up in, but that's democracy when the political parties you like are run by total fu cking spanners.

[Plastic]

Dear me. The very idea of a mish-mash jumble of Krankie, Steptoe, Lucas and Farron is only going to send even more running to the Tories. No one wants that. I'm not pro-Tory but that would be a bloody mess.

 

GE17 is going to be a clusterfu ck for every other party other then the Tories, who will annihilate every other party.

 

The Tories will clean up in lots of Con/Lab marginals in the Midlands and North. Labour will just get decimated in any seat where the majority is say 4,000 or less. Southampton Test for example.

 

The Lib Dems will fail because they are hamstrung by having to stick to one singular message rather than pretending to be a different party in different constituencies depending on who they are competing with. They won't claw back many seats because their previous Westcountry strongholds all voted leave. They might pick up some metropolitan Labour seats. They will scramble back to pre-1997 levels of 20 or so seats and irrelevance again.

 

UKIP will be virtually seat-less again because Nutall is hopeless and May has stolen all their clothes. No real reason to exist. Maybe 3 seats in Labour areas or if Farage finally gets in.

 

I expect the impressive Ruth D to steal a couple more seats from Krankie based on the SNPs terrible domestic record and fightback against Indyref2.

 

Greens keep Brighton again and that one in Norwich from Labour they nearly got last time, so they'll be happy.

 

It's really only the fact that the SNP will get another 40 odd seats that will stop May getting Blair/Thatch levels of domination.

 

For a died in the wool centre left social democrat its all somewhat sickening because this isn't the country I want my children to grow up in, but that's democracy when the political parties you like are run by total fu cking spanners.

 

Sadly I agree with every word. Bravo.

I just watched some of the highlights from PMQ's for the first time in quite a while, and i didnt have a ****ing clue who most of the labour front bench were.

Edited 19 April, 2017 by Plastic

[Lord Duckhunter]

New yougov poll...

 

 

Lab 24%

 

 

 

 

 

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Does anybody think that number will move with more exposure for Steptoe, Abbott & McDonnell?

 

 

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[buctootim]

Does anybody think that number will move with more exposure for Steptoe, Abbott & McDonnell?

 

 

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The only chance is that Corbyn goes after being humiliated in the May council elections and the electable Miliband comes charging back from New York. Even then there is very little time for him to make an impression.

[CB Fry]

Does anybody think that number will move with more exposure for Steptoe, Abbott & McDonnell?

 

 

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Not by much. Mid-20% is pretty much your pig-in-a-red-rosette brigade.

 

But Diane Abbott on TV every day for 5 weeks is going to do plenty of damage anyway.

[Wes Tender]

Dear me. The very idea of a mish-mash jumble of Krankie, Steptoe, Lucas and Farron is only going to send even more running to the Tories. No one wants that. I'm not pro-Tory but that would be a bloody mess.

 

GE17 is going to be a clusterfu ck for every other party other then the Tories, who will annihilate every other party.

 

The Tories will clean up in lots of Con/Lab marginals in the Midlands and North. Labour will just get decimated in any seat where the majority is say 4,000 or less. Southampton Test for example.

 

The Lib Dems will fail because they are hamstrung by having to stick to one singular message rather than pretending to be a different party in different constituencies depending on who they are competing with. They won't claw back many seats because their previous Westcountry strongholds all voted leave. They might pick up some metropolitan Labour seats. They will scramble back to pre-1997 levels of 20 or so seats and irrelevance again.

 

UKIP will be virtually seat-less again because Nutall is hopeless and May has stolen all their clothes. No real reason to exist. Maybe 3 seats in Labour areas or if Farage finally gets in.

 

I expect the impressive Ruth D to steal a couple more seats from Krankie based on the SNPs terrible domestic record and fightback against Indyref2.

 

Greens keep Brighton again and that one in Norwich from Labour they nearly got last time, so they'll be happy.

 

It's really only the fact that the SNP will get another 40 odd seats that will stop May getting Blair/Thatch levels of domination.

 

 

I think that you're not far off the money in your summary on most counts.

[shirleysfc]

The only chance is that Corbyn goes after being humiliated in the May council elections and the electable Miliband comes charging back from New York. Even then there is very little time for him to make an impression.

 

Pretty sure Dave can't take over from Jez as he isn't currently an MP

[buctootim]

Pretty sure Dave can't take over from Jez as he isn't currently an MP

 

Im sure it could be done if he had enough support. If Corbyn resigns after the council elections Labour will be leaderless until they can organise a vote which won't be until after the general election. DM could be the interim leader or just announce his intention to stand and play a high profile role in the campaign as the face of labour in the media.

[Batman]

Where's the Guardian headline calling for the crushing of the Brexit voters?

 

there is one calling a General Election undemocratic and nothing but a coup by Dictator May

 

but of course, it is the Guardian so you don't see a problem with that and certainly do not see they are just as biased/weird as the Mail

Edited 20 April, 2017 by Batman

[aintforever]

The only chance is that Corbyn goes after being humiliated in the May council elections and the electable Miliband comes charging back from New York. Even then there is very little time for him to make an impression.

 

Too late for any change now, it will just look like a right old mess to the electorate. It's going to be a Tory landslide. At least then something might be done to sort out the Labour Party.

 

To be honest I despise the Tories but a Corbyn, SDP and Lib Dem alliance trying to negotiate a Brexit deal would be a disaster. Brexit is a Tory idea, best let them crack on with it - if it turns out bad they will be finished by the next election.

 

To stand ANY chance whatsoever Labour need to stop banging on about spending more on the NHS etc and concentrate on Brexit - that is what this election will be about. IMO they should have their own talks with the EU come up with a softer alternative to the Tory's hard Brexit - some sort of deal that keeps us in the single market that has some support from Europe - if that is possible.

Edited 20 April, 2017 by aintforever

[benjii]

Too late for any change now, it will just look like a right old mess to the electorate. It's going to be a Tory landslide. At least then something might be done to sort out the Labour Party.

 

To be honest I despise the Tories but a Corbyn, SDP and Lib Dem alliance trying to negotiate a Brexit deal would be a disaster. Brexit is a Tory idea, best let them crack on with it - if it turns out bad they will be finished by the next election.

 

To stand ANY chance whatsoever Labour need to stop banging on about spending more on the NHS etc and concentrate on Brexit - that is what this election will be about. IMO they should have their own talks with the EU come up with a softer alternative to the Tory's hard Brexit - some sort of deal that keeps us in the single market that has some support from Europe - if that is possible.

 

It's not possible yet. It needs to be negotiated. The "hard Brexit" cones from the EU not from our politicians and is a stupid and vacuous expression.

[Nolan]

Well. It'd over in my mind. My mother in law has never ever ever expressed intentions of voting for the Conservatives. Not even in 2010 or 2015. She said she will be voting for Mrs May.

 

I would have never believed it if I hadn't heard her say the words herself. And if even she has turned then Corbyn is competely and utterly Fubar.

 

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[shurlock]

there is one calling a General Election undemocratic and nothing but a coup by Dictator May

 

but of course, it is the Guardian so you don't see a problem with that and certainly do not see they are just as biased/weird as the Mail

 

Frontpage headline? Source?

 

Or are you confusing someone's column, assuming it even exists.

 

Over to you pal and I'll be happy to condemn it.

 

Otherwise I'll conclude -as if I needed further proof- you're full of s**t.

Edited 20 April, 2017 by shurlock

[aintforever]

It's not possible yet. It needs to be negotiated. The "hard Brexit" cones from the EU not from our politicians and is a stupid and vacuous expression.

 

They obviously can't do a deal but they need to present some sort of detailed, palatable alternative to the Conservatives hard Brexit, some sort of deal that the EU can say might be a goer.

 

The alternative is WTO rules, and after a Tory landslide the division between England and Scotland will be so big the end of the UK will be inevitable.

[Nolan]

Frontpage headline? Source?

 

Or are you confusing someone's column, assuming it even exists.

It'll be a story based on Chukka Umannas tweet yesterday saying, and I quote

 

"Theresa May is a disgrace-she called an Election because she rejects the idea of an Opposition in our democracy.We are not some dictatorship"

 

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[shurlock]

It'll be a story based on Chukka Umannas tweet yesterday saying, and I quote

 

"Theresa May is a disgrace-she called an Election because she rejects the idea of an Opposition in our democracy.We are not some dictatorship"

 

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So nothing of the sort then. Still interested to see how the story is reported and the relevant attributions are made.

 

Link?

Edited 20 April, 2017 by shurlock

[Batman]

Frontpage headline? Source?

 

Or are you confusing someone's column, assuming it even exists.

 

Over to you pal and I'll be happy to condemn it.

 

Otherwise I'll conclude -as if I needed further proof- you're full of s**t.

 

 

This is no general election, it’s a coup – MPs have a duty to stop Theresa May

 

Theresa May has turned democracy against itself.

 

there has been plenty in the Guardian in the last 48 hours from all sorts going about this sort of stuff with that tone.

I read that article from Anne Perkins (which was on the front page of the Guardian on my phone) yesterday

Edited 20 April, 2017 by Batman

[shurlock]

there has been plenty in the Guardian in the last 48 hours from all sorts going about this sort of stuff and that tone.

 

Provide a link - for all I know it's a quote from comment is free or a batty columnist.

 

"all sorts going about this sort of stuff and that tone" - this is just waffle - if there's all sorts going about, it should be pîśś-easy to substantiate, so provide the links. I'll happily condemn it.

 

Still waiting for that frontpage headline.

[Sour Mash]

It'll be a story based on Chukka Umannas tweet yesterday saying, and I quote

 

"Theresa May is a disgrace-she called an Election because she rejects the idea of an Opposition in our democracy.We are not some dictatorship"

 

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More manipulative lies from the left. Worse than anything the Mail has produced. And from an actual MP and not just a journalist as w.

[buctootim]

It'll be a story based on Chukka Umannas tweet yesterday

I don't agree with the tweet but May's comment about needing an election because Parliament is divided was bizarre and a bit worrying. You always need effective opposition regardless of your policies or views.

[shurlock]

More manipulative lies from the left. Worse than anything the Mail has produced. And from an actual MP and not just a journalist as w.

 

you're struggling.

 

It's an individual politician's point of view - party politics is partisan, were you born yesterday? You can agree with his point of view or readily dismiss it - either way it's not a lie.

 

Perhaps you can help Jamie out and provide that newspaper headline.

[Nolan]

Deep diving into the You gov 48% Con, 24% Lab poll..

 

its interesting that 30% of people intending to vote Labour think "Jeremy Corbyn should step down now and Labour should pick another leader for the general election"

 

Also 20% of lib dems 2015 voters intend to vote Conservative.

Edited 20 April, 2017 by Nolan

[Shroppie]

[emoji38] you're struggling.

 

It's an individual politician's point of view - party politics is partisan, were you born yesterday? You can agree with his point of view or readily dismiss it - either way it's not a lie.

 

Perhaps you can help Jamie out and provide that newspaper headline.

This. Although it's not a coup. It's a Tory campaign based on an arrogant stance of "You have to give me a bigger mandate because there's important work to do and only I can do it". We won't see any Tory policies. May doesn't want debate. She wants a campaign based on a few minimalistic sound bites, the unsustainable assertion that her hand negotiating with the EU will be stronger with a big majority and constantly asserting that voting against her is practically treason.

 

Unfortunately she'll get her way as there is no strong viable opposition.

 

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[Nolan]

This. Although it's not a coup. It's a Tory campaign based on an arrogant stance of "You have to give me a bigger mandate because there's important work to do and only I can do it". We won't see any Tory policies. May doesn't want debate. She wants a campaign based on a few minimalistic sound bites, the unsustainable assertion that her hand negotiating with the EU will be stronger with a big majority and constantly asserting that voting against her is practically treason.

 

Unfortunately she'll get her way as there is no strong viable opposition.

 

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We will absolutely see Conservative manifesto pledges.

 

Possibly grammar Schools, possibly more clarity that only the A rate of NI will be protected. Possibly something on the rights of the self employed. Possibly more on the parity of mental health with physical health. Possibly promises on defence spending. Possibly ideas on the replacement for Cap.

 

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[Batman]

you're struggling.

 

It's an individual politician's point of view - party politics is partisan, were you born yesterday? You can agree with his point of view or readily dismiss it - either way it's not a lie.

 

Perhaps you can help Jamie out and provide that newspaper headline.

 

google it, it was on front page of the Guardian on my phone yesterday although not today

so not sure what it proves if I post the link or not. Not that you would agree in anyway as there appears to be little room in your echo chamber

[Sour Mash]

you're struggling.

 

It's an individual politician's point of view - party politics is partisan, were you born yesterday? You can agree with his point of view or readily dismiss it - either way it's not a lie.

 

Perhaps you can help Jamie out and provide that newspaper headline.

Chin up lad, you're letting this upset you nearly as much as Brexit Things will get better for you soon I'm sure.

[Shroppie]

Deep diving into the You gov 48% Con, 24% Lab poll..

 

its interesting that 30% of people intending to vote Labour think "Jeremy Corbyn should step down now and Labour should pick another leader for the general election"

 

Also 20% of lib dems 2015 voters intend to vote Conservative.

Not that it's relevant, of course, but YouGov is Tory owned and run.

 

If the referendum is anything to go by, we can expect plenty of blatent lies in the coming weeks.

 

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[Nolan]

Not that it's relevant, of course, but YouGov is Tory owned and run.

 

If the referendum is anything to go by, we can expect plenty of blatent lies in the coming weeks.

 

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They are also a privately run company that gains business based on trust, and one who fully releases detailed stats of each survey for full examination.

 

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[Shroppie]

They are also a privately run company that gains business based on trust, and one who fully releases detailed stats of each survey for full examination.

 

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I'm sure they can be trusted to come up with the right answers.

 

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[Nolan]

so why on earth didn't they predict the Conservative were ahead thorugh all of 2000 to 2010 if they were in the business of making up numbers?

 

FFS this constant accusations of conspiracy is just idiotic. You're just pulling the wool over your own eyes.

[Batman]

I'm sure they can be trusted to come up with the right answers.

 

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do you think there will be a plethora of lies from Labour, SNP, Libdems in the next few weeks?

 

just yes or no will do

[SKD]

do you think there will be a plethora of lies from Labour, SNP, Libdems in the next few weeks?

 

just yes or no will do

 

I predict he doesn't answer this one

[Shroppie]

The truth will be under severe strain wherever you look.

 

But I'd rate the Mail as the experts at misinformation.

 

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[Batman]

The truth will be under severe strain wherever you look.

 

But I'd rate the Mail as the experts at misinformation.

 

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yes or no?

 

no need to mention a newspaper

[Nolan]

C'mon sweepstake on the "plan to privatise the NHS" story in the Guardian of the Indie?

[Shroppie]

yes or no?

 

no need to mention a newspaper

I've answered. And the point is that most lies will come from the media, not directly from the parties.

 

So I do need to keep reminding people how disgusting that rag is.

 

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[shirleysfc]

yes or no?

 

no need to mention a newspaper

 

Will there be a plethora of lies from the Tories? Yes or no will do.

[Sour Mash]

Not that it's relevant, of course, but YouGov is Tory owned and run.

 

If the referendum is anything to go by, we can expect plenty of blatent lies in the coming weeks.

 

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What lies were told in the referendum campaign?

[Shroppie]

What lies were told in the referendum campaign?

We did that several hundred posts ago, with lots of evidence.

 

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[Nolan]

Shroppies right. the lies of Remain Campaign lies are part of the reason why George Osbourne is not standing again in Tatton.

 

let alone mention of the poor asumptions of places like the IMF who have revised our growth figures back up to 2%.

[Verbal]

Shroppies right. the lies of Remain Campaign lies are part of the reason why George Osbourne is not standing again in Tatton.

 

let alone mention of the poor asumptions of places like the IMF who have revised our growth figures back up to 2%.

 

It seems to a hallmark of those absorbed into the Brexit cult to be unable to distinguish between lies and forecasts that turn out - gosh! - to be wrong. Or worse, to be unable to distinguish between the current relative plain sailing of the economy while still in the EU, and the the fate of the British economy with a 'hard Brexit'.

 

Here are some straightforward fact checks of what are actually demonstrable lies - as opposed to incorrect predictions - on both sides:

 

https://www.buzzfeed.com/jamesball/are-eu-telling-porkies?utm_term=.mqRqR5akv6#.edZVBevK8D

[trousers]

C'mon sweepstake on the "plan to privatise the NHS" story in the Guardian of the Indie?

 

[Shroppie]

It seems to a hallmark of those absorbed into the Brexit cult to be unable to distinguish between lies and forecasts that turn out - gosh! - to be wrong. Or worse, to be unable to distinguish between the current relative plain sailing of the economy while still in the EU, and the the fate of the British economy with a 'hard Brexit'.

 

Here are some straightforward fact checks of what are actually demonstrable lies - as opposed to incorrect predictions - on both sides:

 

https://www.buzzfeed.com/jamesball/are-eu-telling-porkies?utm_term=.mqRqR5akv6#.edZVBevK8D

Thanks for that. Proved the point conclusively.

 

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[solentstars]

as usual the debate on here goes done to the level of ignorance and winner takes all nonsence rather whats good for the country as a whole, it just ends up as mud slinging, no one listens to the other point of view and no one is prepared to change their mind. Round and round it goes . there was no need for a election and i find it funny in this day and age the leader of this country runs away from a debate,so much for strong leadership,most of the votes as usual in the country will be wasted partys safe seats , its normally the marginals which will have the most money spent on it and try and woo the independently minded ,when we had the coalition it was good government and wished it had carried on at the last election. theres no doubt may will win but we do need opposition to challenge and debate,to get good policy. thankfully i,ve avoided the tv news as best as i can and don,t buy papers as they are just propganda sheets for there owners .

good luck to you mugs who will lap up 7 weeks of nonsence before you vote,my advice go out enjoy yourselfs ,go on holiday to gett away from this bull s hit and have a laugh .

[Shroppie]

as usual the debate on here goes done to the level of ignorance and winner takes all nonsence rather whats good for the country as a whole, it just ends up as mud slinging, no one listens to the other point of view and no one is prepared to change their mind. Round and round it goes . there was no need for a election and i find it funny in this day and age the leader of this country runs away from a debate,so much for strong leadership,most of the votes as usual in the country will be wasted partys safe seats , its normally the marginals which will have the most money spent on it and try and woo the independently minded ,when we had the coalition it was good government and wished it had carried on at the last election. theres no doubt may will win but we do need opposition to challenge and debate,to get good policy. thankfully i,ve avoided the tv news as best as i can and don,t buy papers as they are just propganda sheets for there owners .

good luck to you mugs who will lap up 7 weeks of nonsence before you vote,my advice go out enjoy yourselfs ,go on holiday to gett away from this bull s hit and have a laugh .

I actually agree with that.

 

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[Sour Mash]

We did that several hundred posts ago, with lots of evidence.

 

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So there were no lies and you're just making it up. Classic bitter remainer I guess.

[Shroppie]

So there were no lies and you're just making it up. Classic bitter remainer I guess.

This is just too tedious for words. That makes no sense whatsoever, I certainly didn't say that and it's becoming painfully obvious that you either can't or won't follow an argument.

 

Rather than waste any more time, think I'll concentrate on football matters.

 

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[Wes Tender]

Frontpage headline? Source?

 

Or are you confusing someone's column, assuming it even exists.

 

Over to you pal and I'll be happy to condemn it.

 

Otherwise I'll conclude -as if I needed further proof- you're full of s**t.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/apr/18/general-election-coup-mps-theresa-may

 

Happy to help.

[shurlock]

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/apr/18/general-election-coup-mps-theresa-may

 

Happy to help.

 

Wrong again Les

 

Read post 219 "Provide a link - for all I know it's a quote from comment is free or a batty columnist".

 

Show me where the paper -not bloggers on CIF or individual opinion pieces- the paper as a whole has decided to run a similarly provocative frontpage or campaign?

 

Last time you tried in vain to help out jamie, you had a near meltdown

 

Watch yourself, little kipper.

Edited 20 April, 2017 by shurlock