General election? June 8th?

[OldNick]

well im not over 60 and so .....

[shurlock]

well im not over 60 and so .....

 

I suspect you were born before 1964 or whatever cutoff is for a baby boomer.

[OldNick]

I suspect you were born before 1964 or whatever cutoff is for a baby boomer.

ok you're right there lol

[Bath Saint]

I suspect you are right, I know my generation have pandered too much to our children. We have been fortunate as we have created our own wealth and pehaps as we went without we didnt want for the same to happen to our kids, sadly too much.

We didnt have cafe society, or go out for meals, get takeaways, and designer stuff was rare or unheard of. The last 30 years materialistic things have tumbled out of control. You even have babies with Ralph Lauren kit on

 

Likewise. But is is my parent's generation and mine who have developed a sense of entitlement among the 'kids of today'. Easy to moan about it but we and our parents are culpable (not as individuals, obviously, but as a group).

 

I am always amused when people accuse kids of being 'snowflakes'. They need to look to themselves and their peers, who created said snowflakes.

[buctootim]

Likewise. But is is my parent's generation and mine who have developed a sense of entitlement among the 'kids of today'. Easy to moan about it but we and our parents are culpable (not as individuals, obviously, but as a group).

 

I am always amused when people accuse kids of being 'snowflakes'. They need to look to themselves and their peers, who created said snowflakes.

 

 

Surely its mainly a good thing? Im sure there were periods in the past where parents bemoaned their offspring's desire to go to school, live past 40 or not be a serf.

 

The problem isnt with kids, its us as a society. My main gripe with the Tories (in particular) is that they treat the population as consumers whose primary role is to create demand for companies instead of putting money into national parks, evening activities for kids and community facilities. Too much emphasis on buying stuff and not enough on doing stuff.

[OldNick]

Surely its mainly a good thing? Im sure there were periods in the past where parents bemoaned their offspring's desire to go to school, live past 40 or not be a serf.

 

The problem isnt with kids, its us as a society. My main gripe with the Tories (in particular) is that they treat the population as consumers whose primary role is to create demand for companies instead of putting money into national parks, evening activities for kids and community facilities. Too much emphasis on buying stuff and not enough on doing stuff.

people are too frightened to let their kids go to the park as the media is always talking peadophiles etc. When I was a kid we were latch key kids and my parets encoraged us to go out even though the Moors murderers were still fresh in peoples minds. ' go out into the parks, Nick and make new friends' they would say.....ohh

[Whitey Grandad]

I suspect you were born before 1964 or whatever cutoff is for a baby boomer.

 

Strictly baby boomers were born just after the war when the soldiers started to return home from across the world. This caused a bulge in the birth figures for a few years. When those children themselves started to reach chidbearing age then there was another bulge around the late 1960s but this second bulge was more spread out.

[moonraker]

The problem for parents today is your dammed if you do and your dammed if you don’t. As a child of the late 50’s growing up in what today would be termed a rural ideal I and my peers roamed free. We came home when we were hungry or it was getting dark and were expected to do our own risk assessments as to whether climbing a tree, swimming in a river etc. was safe or sensible. Yes there were accidents and incidents, thankfully in my experience none serious. We learnt to take responsibility, we learnt self sufficiency and we respected adults. Sadly today parents are continually judged and scrutinised, every day activities of yesteryear are now managed, and policed by adults with CRB checks. Despite all the extra oversight and control children remain vulnerable. I do not have the answer, but as a parent to 6 children aged from 33 to 16 I have experienced the ever increasing scrutiny and restrictions on children’s freedoms.

There is so much today that is better than in my childhood, we are generally more tolerant, poverty whilst still shamefully with us is not in most cases as desperate as it was, housing for the vast majority is vastly better (no out side toilets and tin baths), despite what the media and politicians would have us believe education is more inclusive and broader and increasingly privilege does not protect the vile behaviour of some of the rich, the famous and the powerful.

For me one of the most mendacious and cringe worthy phrases often heard from parents is ‘I want my kids to have what I didn’t have’, what kids need is the freedom to be themselves, they don’t need mountains of consumable stuff, what parents must do is make sure they are equipped for the big wide world that awaits them as adults.

[hypochondriac]

Surely its mainly a good thing? Im sure there were periods in the past where parents bemoaned their offspring's desire to go to school, live past 40 or not be a serf.

 

The problem isnt with kids, its us as a society. My main gripe with the Tories (in particular) is that they treat the population as consumers whose primary role is to create demand for companies instead of putting money into national parks, evening activities for kids and community facilities. Too much emphasis on buying stuff and not enough on doing stuff.

Being civic minded and appreciating culture is undoubtedly a good thing. It's all the negative stuff that goes with it that is interminable. The safe spaces, trigger warnings, entitlement culture, multiple genders, the myths of rape culture, toxic masculinity, reverse racism and patriarchy. It's destroyed lives and so on balance I don't think it's an overly positive thing.

[hypochondriac]

The problem for parents today is your dammed if you do and your dammed if you don’t. As a child of the late 50’s growing up in what today would be termed a rural ideal I and my peers roamed free. We came home when we were hungry or it was getting dark and were expected to do our own risk assessments as to whether climbing a tree, swimming in a river etc. was safe or sensible. Yes there were accidents and incidents, thankfully in my experience none serious. We learnt to take responsibility, we learnt self sufficiency and we respected adults. Sadly today parents are continually judged and scrutinised, every day activities of yesteryear are now managed, and policed by adults with CRB checks. Despite all the extra oversight and control children remain vulnerable. I do not have the answer, but as a parent to 6 children aged from 33 to 16 I have experienced the ever increasing scrutiny and restrictions on children’s freedoms.

There is so much today that is better than in my childhood, we are generally more tolerant, poverty whilst still shamefully with us is not in most cases as desperate as it was, housing for the vast majority is vastly better (no out side toilets and tin baths), despite what the media and politicians would have us believe education is more inclusive and broader and increasingly privilege does not protect the vile behaviour of some of the rich, the famous and the powerful.

For me one of the most mendacious and cringe worthy phrases often heard from parents is ‘I want my kids to have what I didn’t have’, what kids need is the freedom to be themselves, they don’t need mountains of consumable stuff, what parents must do is make sure they are equipped for the big wide world that awaits them as adults.

Just for a change I can actually agree with you there. Good post.

[CB Fry]

Just reading about this "Day of Rage" thing.

 

McDonnell, supposed to be a potential Chancellor of the Exchequer, egging it all on.

 

Going to be a real vote winner for Worcester woman and Mondeo man in key middle England marginals this one.

 

Gawd help us all.

[doddisalegend]

seems the DUP and Tories are struggling to get an agreement sorted

 

Queen's Speech in chaos as DUP say talks with Theresa May are 'not progressing as expected'

 

 

http://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/queens-speech-in-chaos-as-dup-say-talks-with-theresa-may-are-not-progressing-as-expected/ar-BBCXbb3?li=AAmiR2Z&ocid=spartandhp

Edited 21 June, 2017 by doddisalegend

[Sheaf Saint]

Just reading about this "Day of Rage" thing.

 

McDonnell, supposed to be a potential Chancellor of the Exchequer, egging it all on.

 

Going to be a real vote winner for Worcester woman and Mondeo man in key middle England marginals this one.

 

Gawd help us all.

 

I don't really see how appealing to protesters to remain peaceful can be described as 'egging it all on'.

[Sour Mash]

I don't really see how appealing to protesters to remain peaceful can be described as 'egging it all on'.

 

Because he's already egged them on. Now if it kicks off he can say 'look, I said it should be peaceful'.

 

He clearly loves it http://www.lbc.co.uk/politics/parties/labour/uncovered-john-mcdonnell-praises-2010-riots/

[Bath Saint]

people are too frightened to let their kids go to the park as the media is always talking peadophiles etc. When I was a kid we were latch key kids and my parets encoraged us to go out even though the Moors murderers were still fresh in peoples minds. ' go out into the parks, Nick and make new friends' they would say.....ohh

 

In truth, I don't think the 'kids of today' are nearly as dreadful as people make out. I was moaning the other day about my own kids being obsessed with blokes like DanTDM and Stampy on youtube (if you don't know who they are, look them up - and gringe) but someone pointed out to me that, when I was a kid my parents must have equally despaired about the **** I used to watch on tv. Teenagers and young adults are fixated by materialist goods but that's the society we have jointly created for them. I see a lot of students who are under incredible pressure to get a 'good' degree and a 'good' job and think back to when I was a student and a third was 'gentleman's degree'.

 

But, while I don't envy the kids of today and the society they live in, they don't live under the constant threat of a nuclear holocaust, most don't experience serious, grinding poverty. They are exposed to all sorts of experiences and opportunities that we could never have dreamt of.

 

I also wonder, Nick, whether it is the threat of predators that worries parents or the fact that there are loads of cars everywhere. Another powerful disincentive for parents to let their kids roam is the opprobrium of their peers (i.e. other parents). Would I let my young kids go cycling down the roads around where I live? What about the traffic? What about the response of other parents?

 

Frankly, I think calling kids 'snowflakes' and bemoaning the younger generation (who, incidentally, will be paying for our pensions) is a bit pathetic and disheartening, but if you are going to resort to this kind of deprecation of them, you should first look to yourself - ultimately, our kids are a reflection of us, for good or ill.

[OldNick]

 

I also wonder, Nick, whether it is the threat of predators that worries parents or the fact that there are loads of cars everywhere. Another powerful disincentive for parents to

Frankly, I think calling kids 'snowflakes' and bemoaning the younger generation (who, incidentally, will be paying for our pensions) is a bit pathetic and disheartening, but if you are going to resort to this kind of deprecation of them, you should first look to yourself - ultimately, our kids are a reflection of us, for good or ill.

I didnt call them snowflakes, that was from elsewhere. Some kids are fantastic some are not, but that has always been the case. I just dont think they are quite as streetwise

[Whitey Grandad]

In truth, I don't think the 'kids of today' are nearly as dreadful as people make out. I was moaning the other day about my own kids being obsessed with blokes like DanTDM and Stampy on youtube (if you don't know who they are, look them up - and gringe) but someone pointed out to me that, when I was a kid my parents must have equally despaired about the **** I used to watch on tv. Teenagers and young adults are fixated by materialist goods but that's the society we have jointly created for them. I see a lot of students who are under incredible pressure to get a 'good' degree and a 'good' job and think back to when I was a student and a third was 'gentleman's degree'.

 

But, while I don't envy the kids of today and the society they live in, they don't live under the constant threat of a nuclear holocaust, most don't experience serious, grinding poverty. They are exposed to all sorts of experiences and opportunities that we could never have dreamt of.

 

I also wonder, Nick, whether it is the threat of predators that worries parents or the fact that there are loads of cars everywhere. Another powerful disincentive for parents to let their kids roam is the opprobrium of their peers (i.e. other parents). Would I let my young kids go cycling down the roads around where I live? What about the traffic? What about the response of other parents?

 

Frankly, I think calling kids 'snowflakes' and bemoaning the younger generation (who, incidentally, will be paying for our pensions) is a bit pathetic and disheartening, but if you are going to resort to this kind of deprecation of them, you should first look to yourself - ultimately, our kids are a reflection of us, for good or ill.

 

When I was a kid we didn't have a TV. Only posh people like my wife had one that they had bought for the coronation. There again she did live in north London and actually had a usable TV service. We had to wait until the Bradfield repeater at Manningtree opened in 1962 before you could watch anything reliably.

 

You are right about the cars, my road when I was a kid was always empty. We used to play football in the middle of the road and got quite narked if a car came along and interrupted us. We were let out to play in the summer with instructions to come back when it got dark.

[shurlock]

When I was a kid we didn't have a TV. Only posh people like my wife had one that they had bought for the coronation. There again she did live in north London and actually had a usable TV service. We had to wait until the Bradfield repeater at Manningtree opened in 1962 before you could watch anything reliably.

 

You are right about the cars, my road when I was a kid was always empty. We used to play football in the middle of the road and got quite narked if a car came along and interrupted us. We were let out to play in the summer with instructions to come back when it got dark.

 

Frankly it was still pretty much like that in the late 1990s.

[buctootim]

Frankly it was still pretty much like that in the late 1990s.

 

I didn't know you were North Korean.

[shurlock]

I didn't know you were North Korean.

 

That and the joys of cul-de-sac living.

[hutch]

That and the joys of cul-de-sac living.

Is that an address or a lifestyle?

[buctootim]

That and the joys of cul-de-sac living.

 

I know the number of cars on British roads has risen by 50% in 20 years, but the number of miles driven by each has also increased - so I guess the roads are around 2-2.5 times as busy.

[Bath Saint]

I didnt call them snowflakes, that was from elsewhere. Some kids are fantastic some are not, but that has always been the case. I just dont think they are quite as streetwise

 

Sorry, I wasn't having a go at you personally. I was using the word 'you' in the same way as the Royal 'we', as a generalisation (mainly of Daily Mail readers, where the term 'snowflake' seems so prevalent).

[Verbal]

Maybot's annointed successor, Boris Johnson, car-crashing embarrassingly in an interview with Eddie Mair on Radio 4 today:

 

https://soundcloud.com/spectator1828/boris-johnsons-excruciating-radio-4-interview

 

This is the same Eddie Mair who not so long ago famously called Johnson out as a 'nasty piece of work' - a reasonably objective remark considering that Boris, our future PM, engaged in a conversation with a Bullingdon mate about how seriously his mate is going to assault a journalist. (Boris seemed happy with a crashed rib).

 

Some government, this.

[trousers]

Maybot's annointed successor, Boris Johnson, car-crashing embarrassingly in an interview with Eddie Mair on Radio 4 today:

 

https://soundcloud.com/spectator1828/boris-johnsons-excruciating-radio-4-interview

 

This is the same Eddie Mair who not so long ago famously called Johnson out as a 'nasty piece of work' - a reasonably objective remark considering that Boris, our future PM, engaged in a conversation with a Bullingdon mate about how seriously his mate is going to assault a journalist. (Boris seemed happy with a crashed rib).

 

Some government, this.

Sounds like he ought to have a test for diabetes pretty sharpish

[shurlock]

Sounds like he ought to have a test for diabetes pretty sharpish

 

http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/news/health/honey-monster-has-diabetes-2014102091881

[Verbal]

Sounds like he ought to have a test for diabetes pretty sharpish

 

I can think of a few other tests he's more urgently in need of.

[shurlock]

He's a blustering bullsh*tter who thinks his exceptionalism is going to save the day -others might interpret that as being treated with contempt. His entire career has never reached beyond a sense of massive entitlement. Above all, as Eddie Mair rightly diagnosed, he's a sociopath, a nasty piece of work.

Edited 22 June, 2017 by shurlock

[buctootim]

He's a blustering bullsh*tter who thinks his exceptionalism is going to save the day -others might interpret that as being treated with contempt. His entire career has never reached beyond a sense of massive entitlement. Above all, as Eddie Mair rightly diagnosed, he's a sociopath, a nasty piece of work.

Good article in the Evening Standard about his younger brother yesterday. Supposedly his life aim is to "not be Boris", a dark horse rival to Boris' leadership bid, shades of the Milibands.

 

http://www.standard.co.uk/lifestyle/london-life/are-boris-johnson-and-his-brother-jo-in-a-political-power-struggle-for-the-countrys-top-job-a3568986.html

Edited 22 June, 2017 by buctootim
added link

[trousers]

[LGTL]

There was me thinking we didn't have any money.

 

In other news, turns out the government were aware of the flammable cladding in 2016, but decided against doing anything. Blood on their hands.

[moonraker]

There is a magic money tree after all, using taxpayers money to give the Torys a majority is a disgrace.

[badgerx16]

There is a magic money tree after all, using taxpayers money to give the Torys a majority is a disgrace.

Isn't paying for votes illegal ?

[whelk]

Lifted from Twitter so not verified but if true what has gone wrong?

 

Wage growth since 2010:

 

Poland +23%

Germany +14%

France +11%

 

UK -10.4%

 

UK: only G7 nation where wages are stagnant whilst economy grows.

[scotty]

Lifted from Twitter so not verified but if true what has gone wrong?

 

Wage growth since 2010:

 

Poland +23%

Germany +14%

France +11%

 

UK -10.4%

 

UK: only G7 nation where wages are stagnant whilst economy grows.

 

As you say, its twitter so quite possibly utter b*llocks. But if true, we're probably seeing a combination of Poland starting from a very low wage base, France and Germany stitching up europe to suit themselves like always, and the UK electorate standing still for lower wages and living standards in the face of relentless austerity mantras from the governing party.

[trousers]

Lifted from Twitter so not verified but if true what has gone wrong?

 

Wage growth since 2010:

 

Poland +23%

Germany +14%

France +11%

 

UK -10.4%

 

UK: only G7 nation where wages are stagnant whilst economy grows.

Would need to see how those stats are derived before being able to make any meaningful comment on them. Would also be useful to know how large the deficit was for each of those countries back in 2010 compared to now.

Edited 29 June, 2017 by trousers

[shurlock]

Would need to see how those stats are derived before being able to make any meaningful comment on them. Would also be useful to know how large the deficit was for each of those countries back in 2010 compared to nown

 

Surely you know someone among your friends and friends who your got an inflation-beating payrise?

[shurlock]

Lifted from Twitter so not verified but if true what has gone wrong?

 

Wage growth since 2010:

 

Poland +23%

Germany +14%

France +11%

 

UK -10.4%

 

UK: only G7 nation where wages are stagnant whilst economy grows.

 

It was probably from a guardian article citing a TUC report, though the years are wrong and not sure how the figures are calculated.

 

This source is very credible (p.6). Paints the same picture, albeit less stark. Figure 4 is very interesting and people wonder why young people are angry and want change.

 

http://cep.lse.ac.uk/pubs/download/ea036.pdf?utm_content=buffer11cd5&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=buffer

Edited 29 June, 2017 by shurlock

[John B]

Would need to see how those stats are derived before being able to make any meaningful comment on them. Would also be useful to know how large the deficit was for each of those countries back in 2010 compared to nown

 

If wages go up usually deficts go down as there is more growth in the economy.

 

I dont think you realise that the Tory's adopted Austerity to shrink the state they did not have to but they did that is why the country is in such a bad state economically and why lots of people voted for brexit

[OldNick]

If wages go up usually deficts go down as there is more growth in the economy.

 

I dont think you realise that the Tory's adopted Austerity to shrink the state they did not have to but they did that is why the country is in such a bad state economically and why lots of people voted for brexit

It is a two edged sword. Wages go up and so inflation follows, that erodes peoples spending power , add to that the interest rates rise to help pull inflation back.

What ithink would be best is that the 40+% tax payers pay a bit more and raise the tax threshold for the lower paid. That would give them more money rather than a pay rise.

I dont know what % increase that would need to increase, and so it might not be practical but Im prepared to pay some more for that.Not to pay for kids to go to Uni if they are going for some obscure degree that means nothing.

[Verbal]

It is a two edged sword. Wages go up and so inflation follows, that erodes peoples spending power.

 

Dear me, Nick. Do you really think this is how economies work?

[shurlock]

It is a two edged sword. Wages go up and so inflation follows, that erodes peoples spending power , add to that the interest rates rise to help pull inflation back.

What ithink would be best is that the 40+% tax payers pay a bit more and raise the tax threshold for the lower paid. That would give them more money rather than a pay rise.

I dont know what % increase that would need to increase, and so it might not be practical but Im prepared to pay some more for that.Not to pay for kids to go to Uni if they are going for some obscure degree that means nothing.

 

Where does productivity enter the equation?

[ecuk268]

There is a magic money tree after all, using taxpayers money to give the Torys a majority is a disgrace.

 

And they accused Corbyn of trying to bribe people with more public spending.

[OldNick]

Where does productivity enter the equation?

I didnt mention productivity, so dont get what you mean?

[OldNick]

Dear me, Nick. Do you really think this is how economies work?

So are you saying that wage rises dont add to inflation, and in turn inflationary pressures are not combatted by higher interest rates?

[buctootim]

So are you saying that wage rises dont add to inflation, and in turn inflationary pressures are not combatted by higher interest rates?

 

There is a connection, but not a direct connection - there are too many other factors at work like savings ratio, exchange rate, interest rates, oil price, demand in global economy. If they were directly linked inflation would have been largely negative over the past years.

[John B]

I didnt mention productivity, so dont get what you mean?

 

I think he means you are talking economic drivel

 

As Productivity is a key factor in the performance of the UK Economy. Increasing national productivity will raise living standards because more real income improves people's ability to purchase goods and services increasing growth and improving housing and NHS education .

 

The UK has appalling productivity compared with other EU countries and has led to poor wages for most my wife who works in a school gets 1% per year well below inflation

[Whitey Grandad]

I think he means you are talking economic drivel

 

As Productivity is a key factor in the performance of the UK Economy. Increasing national productivity will raise living standards because more real income improves people's ability to purchase goods and services increasing growth and improving housing and NHS education .

 

The UK has appalling productivity compared with other EU countries and has led to poor wages for most my wife who works in a school gets 1% per year well below inflation

 

Your wife is not alone. Poor wage increases apply right across the employment spectrum.Incidentally, how is productivity increasing in the education sector lately?

[Whitey Grandad]

I didnt mention productivity, so dont get what you mean?

 

I rather think that's the point.

[Verbal]

So are you saying that wage rises dont add to inflation, and in turn inflationary pressures are not combatted by higher interest rates?

 

Honestly, do you think that that wage rises only occur in stagnant economies?