General election? June 8th?

[Sheaf Saint]

In a way I'm glad that Labour didn't win this. The Brexit negotiations begin in just over a week and regardless of who is in government, the whole thing is going to be a total f*cking disaster. So when the full extent of the Brexit train wreck becomes clear, May and the Tories will have to own it and face the consequences.

[sandwichsaint]

Burnt Tories + UKIP + cave-dwelling small-off-shore-island troglodytes 46% ish.

 

Everybody else 54% ish.

 

When's the next election?

[whelk]

And go fox hunting?

 

Going to be my retirement sport of choice. Over 20 years away though. #TallyHo

[solentstars]

i normally vote consertive but being socially liberal i could not bring myself to vote for her ,and i expect a lot of liberal tories were like .she lost me with her hard brexit nonsence and her appeal to the ukippers to follow her.so and went and voted labour,thank god hard brexit is off the table now she was lucky she got alot of ukippers to vote for her otherwise she would have been hammered but i,m glad the young came out in force and voted,which will scare the present tory party has there is no long term future appealing to the old bigots of ukip now. in the long term.shes toast but can,t see who can replace her at the moment.the only person i can think would be good is the tory leader in scotland.

[whelk]

Easy for you to say the Tory Party are cr*p after the event. Fact is, you were crowing about an easy Tory win right up to the end. Just admit you were wrong. Corbyn has stuck it right to all his detractors like it or not.

 

Yep no denying it. I went to bed and woke up elated but more cos can't stand the Tories than anything else. Pleased for Corbyn too

[whelk]

Not at all, I'm a democratic. Unlike the remoaners I accept democratic results without throwing my toys out of my pram.

 

Anyway, I voted to stop Corbyn being PM, as he isn't , why would I be upset

 

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

Cos your party self imploded and absolutely no need for it. If nothing else it is funny to see the worst miscalculation of all time.

[Whitey Grandad]

The future of this country is left leaning, the over 65's can't be around forever.

 

Oy! Watch it.

[The Cat]

The most important thing for Labour now is to harness the youth vote and build upon it over the next few years. The result in Canterbury has shown what's possible when they target the student vote and if they carry on doing it (and there's no reason why they won't) the electoral map will look a hell of a lot different in the years to come.

 

It's about time the younger people got out in force to vote because let's face it they'll be around for a lot longer than most of us old gits which makes it more important to them.

 

With the increasing shift away from mainstream dead tree media to online news and those who get their fix through social channels it's definitely the way forward for mobilising voters. Just look a the effect JME, Novelist, Akala and the rest of the grime scene had in getting people out to vote. It was massive, and may well have had more of an influence than the ridiculous front pages from the floundering right wing press who were desperately trying to protect their selfish interests.

[badgerx16]

Labour win Kensington !!!

[shurlock]

Labour win Kensington !!!

 

Paul Dacre now has a Labour MP.

[so22saint]

i normally vote consertive but being socially liberal i could not bring myself to vote for her ,and i expect a lot of liberal tories were like .she lost me with her hard brexit nonsence and her appeal to the ukippers to follow her.so and went and voted labour,thank god hard brexit is off the table now she was lucky she got alot of ukippers to vote for her otherwise she would have been hammered but i,m glad the young came out in force and voted,which will scare the present tory party has there is no long term future appealing to the old bigots of ukip now. in the long term.shes toast but can,t see who can replace her at the moment.the only person i can think would be good is the tory leader in scotland.

 

Ruth Davidson would be brilliant, but I can't see the DUP working with a lesbian!

[Sour Mash]

Although he didn't win as such, he performed much better than expected even despite the opposition he faced from within his own party and the relentless smear campaign run by the media barons against him. So it's a moral victory for him because he has proved that there is a broad support base for his policies which can be built upon in the run up to the next general election.

 

Edit: this was supposed to be in response to Batman's earlier post but I neglected to do reply with quote.

 

Who would take over from Corbyn going forward? He's getting on a bit and won't be PM. Labour would need to find a far left MP who can present well enough to the public. Not sure how many of those are about.

[shurlock]

Who would take over from Corbyn going forward? He's getting on a bit and won't be PM. Labour would need to find a far left MP who can present well enough to the public. Not sure how many of those are about.

 

He's not old by US standards.

[Patrick Bateman]

Ruth Davidson would be brilliant, but I can't see the DUP working with a lesbian!

 

I'd love her to be leader and PM.

[Sour Mash]

Not going to happen is it. but he still lost by a fair distance

 

Not quite rioting, but plenty of Socialist Workers demonstrating outside Downing Street today with 'Defy Tory Rule' banners. Weirdos.

[Lord Duckhunter]

Cos your party self imploded and absolutely no need for it. If nothing else it is funny to see the worst miscalculation of all time.

 

What you on about, my party? I don't have a party, I vote for who I consider the best for the UK. I'm with his back benchers, I have no confidence in Corbyn being capable of leading this country. There's a reason after 30+ years in parliament nobody has considered him front bench material.

 

We dodged a bullet yesterday and I think you lefties are underestimating the Tories ability to ruthlessly hold onto power. Labour have now failed to win 3 elections running & now have Corbyn & his henchmen entrenched. The blair wing won't keep quiet for too long, particularly if Trident & other further left policies are proposed. If I was a Tory strategist I'd play the long game. Nothing controversial, just run the country with the DUP & May in charge. DD will get a Brexit deal that labour will have to sign up to or appear to be blocking Brexit .Then they can move on May. A seat should be found for Davidson , Lord Mundell has a certain ring to it. Davidson soon calls election to get her own mandate and it's Davidson against 71/72 year old Corbyn. There's no other way they can play it. If they call an election within the next 2 years , they're screwed. They won't move on May yet as she's the patsy. They've got their backs to the wall, but they've got an unelectable opponent. If they can drag this out for 4 years, that's plenty of time to get a fresh face in and plenty of time for the moderates to rip the Labour Party in two.

 

 

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[Saint in Paradise]

I know that your Election is not any of my business but I always enjoy reading this website.

 

https://order-order.com/

[Badger]

What you on about, my party? I don't have a party, I vote for who I consider the best for the UK. I'm with his back benchers, I have no confidence in Corbyn being capable of leading this country. There's a reason after 30+ years in parliament nobody has considered him front bench material.

 

We dodged a bullet yesterday and I think you lefties are underestimating the Tories ability to ruthlessly hold onto power. Labour have now failed to win 3 elections running & now have Corbyn & his henchmen entrenched. The blair wing won't keep quiet for too long, particularly if Trident & other further left policies are proposed. If I was a Tory strategist I'd play the long game. Nothing controversial, just run the country with the DUP & May in charge. DD will get a Brexit deal that labour will have to sign up to or appear to be blocking Brexit .Then they can move on May. A seat should be found for Davidson , Lord Mundell has a certain ring to it. Davidson soon calls election to get her own mandate and it's Davidson against 71/72 year old Corbyn. There's no other way they can play it. If they call an election within the next 2 years , they're screwed. They won't move on May yet as she's the patsy. They've got their backs to the wall, but they've got an unelectable opponent. If they can drag this out for 4 years, that's plenty of time to get a fresh face in and plenty of time for the moderates to rip the Labour Party in two.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

Agree that Ruth Davidson is one of the more credible contenders for the leadership who would appeal to the electorate.

 

Not sure that I'd agree that Corbyn is unelectable after this week though.

[Jonnyboy]

What you on about, my party? I don't have a party, I vote for who I consider the best for the UK. I'm with his back benchers, I have no confidence in Corbyn being capable of leading this country. There's a reason after 30+ years in parliament nobody has considered him front bench material.

 

We dodged a bullet yesterday and I think you lefties are underestimating the Tories ability to ruthlessly hold onto power. Labour have now failed to win 3 elections running & now have Corbyn & his henchmen entrenched. The blair wing won't keep quiet for too long, particularly if Trident & other further left policies are proposed. If I was a Tory strategist I'd play the long game. Nothing controversial, just run the country with the DUP & May in charge. DD will get a Brexit deal that labour will have to sign up to or appear to be blocking Brexit .Then they can move on May. A seat should be found for Davidson , Lord Mundell has a certain ring to it. Davidson soon calls election to get her own mandate and it's Davidson against 71/72 year old Corbyn. There's no other way they can play it. If they call an election within the next 2 years , they're screwed. They won't move on May yet as she's the patsy. They've got their backs to the wall, but they've got an unelectable opponent. If they can drag this out for 4 years, that's plenty of time to get a fresh face in and plenty of time for the moderates to rip the Labour Party in two.

 

 

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Why should we trust your delusional opinion? Your crystal ball is f*cked. The pony must've smashed it. Where's this 87 majority?

[Lord Duckhunter]

Why should we trust your delusional opinion? Your crystal ball is f*cked. The pony must've smashed it. Where's this 87 majority?

 

My prediction was wrong, big deal. So was almost every single political pundit. If everybody who got a prediction wrong on a football forum stopped posting , it'd be a pretty boring place,with boring posters afraid to make a prediction, btw , what was yours?

 

 

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[Lord Duckhunter]

Agree that Ruth Davidson is one of the more credible contenders for the leadership who would appeal to the electorate.

 

Not sure that I'd agree that Corbyn is unelectable after this week though.

 

 

What the week he didn't get elected?

 

 

 

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[the saint in winchester]

Who would take over from Corbyn going forward? He's getting on a bit and won't be PM. Labour would need to find a far left MP who can present well enough to the public. Not sure how many of those are about.

 

Anthony Blair.

[BlakeySFC]

Hello right-wing nutjobs, just thought I'd leave this with you

 

 

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

 

Viva la revolución!

[Lord Duckhunter]

 

 

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[whelk]

What you on about, my party? I don't have a party, I vote for who I consider the best for the UK. I'm with his back benchers, I have no confidence in Corbyn being capable of leading this country. There's a reason after 30+ years in parliament nobody has considered him front bench material.

 

We dodged a bullet yesterday and I think you lefties are underestimating the Tories ability to ruthlessly hold onto power. Labour have now failed to win 3 elections running & now have Corbyn & his henchmen entrenched. The blair wing won't keep quiet for too long, particularly if Trident & other further left policies are proposed. If I was a Tory strategist I'd play the long game. Nothing controversial, just run the country with the DUP & May in charge. DD will get a Brexit deal that labour will have to sign up to or appear to be blocking Brexit .Then they can move on May. A seat should be found for Davidson , Lord Mundell has a certain ring to it. Davidson soon calls election to get her own mandate and it's Davidson against 71/72 year old Corbyn. There's no other way they can play it. If they call an election within the next 2 years , they're screwed. They won't move on May yet as she's the patsy. They've got their backs to the wall, but they've got an unelectable opponent. If they can drag this out for 4 years, that's plenty of time to get a fresh face in and plenty of time for the moderates to rip the Labour Party in two.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

Oh the indigence of being associated as a Tory boy. Sorry but I concluded from your posts that you always voted Conservative? Ironic as well since anyone with opposing views is sweeping called leftie. Anyway have you ever voted Labour? Assume a little dalliance with UKIP.

 

And you may be right I am no expert on the inner workings or the parties but one thing was clear there are enough of the public that rejected Tory austerity to alarm them. Wake up call for the PR advisors who's advice seems to be to just say repeat lines like Strong and Stable ad nauseam and we will be ok.

As for the queen in waiting Davidson, I think everyone is on that bandwagon although can all change v quickly. People want sincere and principled politicians on either side and let's hope she is that. Also her manifesto will need to resonate with public of course unlike this last creation,

[Sour Mash]

Why should we trust your delusional opinion? Your crystal ball is f*cked. The pony must've smashed it. Where's this 87 majority?

 

What's your forecast?

[Lord Duckhunter]

Oh the indigence of being associated as a Tory boy. Sorry but I concluded from your posts that you always voted Conservative?

 

,

 

Wrong again. I've voted against the Tories more than I've voted for them,in something like a dozen elections. I voted for them this time, not particularly because of May, but because Corbyn & his henchmen are lunatics.

 

 

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[doddisalegend]

Given what May said when she called the election I can't stand how she can stay on as prime minster

 

"I have concluded the only way to guarantee certainty and security for years ahead is to hold this election."

She accused Britain's other political parties of "game playing", adding that this risks "our ability to make a success of Brexit and it will cause damaging uncertainty and instability to the country".

"So we need a general election and we need one now. We have at this moment a one-off chance to get this done while the European Union agrees its negotiating position and before the detailed talks begin.

"I have only recently and reluctantly come to this conclusion. Since I became prime minister I've said there should be no election until 2020, but now I have concluded that the only way to guarantee certainty and security for the years ahead is to hold this election and seek your support for the decisions we must take."

In a statement outside Number 10, Mrs May said Labour had threatened to vote against the final Brexit agreement and cited opposition to her plans from the Scottish National Party, the Lib Dems and "unelected" members of the House of Lords.

"If we don't hold a general election now, their political game-playing will continue and the negotiations with the European Union will reach their most difficult stage in the run-up to the next scheduled election," she said.

 

Sure the Tories still get to form the next government but considering she completely failed to achieve the aims she set out she should surely be stepping down rather than desperately hanging on?

[CB Fry]

Given what May said when she called the election I can't stand how she can stay on as prime minster

 

"I have concluded the only way to guarantee certainty and security for years ahead is to hold this election."

She accused Britain's other political parties of "game playing", adding that this risks "our ability to make a success of Brexit and it will cause damaging uncertainty and instability to the country".

"So we need a general election and we need one now. We have at this moment a one-off chance to get this done while the European Union agrees its negotiating position and before the detailed talks begin.

"I have only recently and reluctantly come to this conclusion. Since I became prime minister I've said there should be no election until 2020, but now I have concluded that the only way to guarantee certainty and security for the years ahead is to hold this election and seek your support for the decisions we must take."

In a statement outside Number 10, Mrs May said Labour had threatened to vote against the final Brexit agreement and cited opposition to her plans from the Scottish National Party, the Lib Dems and "unelected" members of the House of Lords.

"If we don't hold a general election now, their political game-playing will continue and the negotiations with the European Union will reach their most difficult stage in the run-up to the next scheduled election," she said.

 

Sure the Tories still get to form the next government but considering she completely failed to achieve the aims she set out she should surely be stepping down rather than desperately hanging on?

I actually think she would quite like to quit but she can't - she's trapped in role now. If she resigns and the Tories have 3/4 month leadership election just as the A50 negotiations kick off it's going like utterly chaotic and the electorate will not look kindly on that.

 

And whatever people say, she won the most seats and votes so is the only credible Prime Minister. While her speech saying "let's get to work" sounded determined, really it is stoical and resigned. She effed it right up but but she's got to lie in it now.

 

That said I have no doubt the Tory machine are trying to work out how they can switch her out in a smooth/orderly way somehow in the coming months/years.

[aintforever]

Given what May said when she called the election I can't stand how she can stay on as prime minster

 

"I have concluded the only way to guarantee certainty and security for years ahead is to hold this election."

She accused Britain's other political parties of "game playing", adding that this risks "our ability to make a success of Brexit and it will cause damaging uncertainty and instability to the country".

"So we need a general election and we need one now. We have at this moment a one-off chance to get this done while the European Union agrees its negotiating position and before the detailed talks begin.

"I have only recently and reluctantly come to this conclusion. Since I became prime minister I've said there should be no election until 2020, but now I have concluded that the only way to guarantee certainty and security for the years ahead is to hold this election and seek your support for the decisions we must take."

In a statement outside Number 10, Mrs May said Labour had threatened to vote against the final Brexit agreement and cited opposition to her plans from the Scottish National Party, the Lib Dems and "unelected" members of the House of Lords.

"If we don't hold a general election now, their political game-playing will continue and the negotiations with the European Union will reach their most difficult stage in the run-up to the next scheduled election," she said.

 

Sure the Tories still get to form the next government but considering she completely failed to achieve the aims she set out she should surely be stepping down rather than desperately hanging on?

 

Farage was spot on when he said they needed someone who actually believes in Brexit to be in charge if we are going down this road of Brexit at any cost.

 

To be honest, whilst I was pro Brexit during the referendum I just wouldn't bother now. May is just going to **** it all up. It's nailed on WTO rules.

 

All this "we voted out so are going out regardless" attitude is retarded, there is nothing undemocratic about having a second refurendum once we have an idea of the consequences. We will still leave if the option looks better.

 

At the moment it's like watching a slow motion car crash. First we had Cameron jump ship it the first opportunity, then Boris bottled it, now May is making a right mess.

Edited 10 June, 2017 by aintforever

[buctootim]

In a reversal of fortunes DUP leader Arlene Foster can look forward to imposing direct rule on Westminster from Stormont.

 

https://inews.co.uk/opinion/editor/night-shocking-drama-took-surreal-quality-outside/

[CB Fry]

Farage was spot on when he said they needed someone who actually believes in Brexit to be in charge if we are going down this road of Brexit at any cost.

.

 

Well, in theory it was a fair assumption of the actual referendum result that we leave but the process lead by a remain leader - that's not an inaccurate reflection of the 52/48 result.

 

I read this week a nice piece that compared the hard Brexit route taken by May as being akin to Cameron taking a 52/48 remain vote as being permission to sign us up for the Euro and join the Schengen area and claim it was "the will of the people" and those objecting were saboteurs. Clearly neither were really true and Mays result certainly will strengthen the soft Brexiteers in the party now.

 

Gawd knows how the negotiations will start now as May will be walking into them a completely damaged and discredited individual with very little personal authority.

 

Couple this with her lack of style/panache/force of personality (she's no Thatcher or Blair) then gawd help us. I think May was hoping a clear thumping majority would at least do some of the heavy lifting in the negotiations. Ironically she is the one naked in the negotiating chamber after all.

Edited 10 June, 2017 by CB Fry

[doddisalegend]

Well, in theory it was a fair assumption of the actual referendum result that we leave but the process lead by a remain leader - that's not an inaccurate reflection of the 52/48 result.

 

I read this week a nice piece that compared the hard Brexit route taken by May as being akin to Cameron taking a 52/48 remain vote as being permission to sign us up for the Euro and join the Schengen area as claim it was "the will of the people" and those objecting were saboteurs. Clearly neither were really true and Mays result certainly will strengthen the soft Brexiteers in the party now.

 

Gawd knows how the negotiations will start now as May will be walking into them a completely damaged and discredited individual with very little personal authority.

 

Couple this with her lack of style/panache/force of personality (she's no Thatcher or Blair) then gawd help us. I think May was hoping a clear thumping majority would at least do some of the heavy lifting in the negotiations. Ironically she is the one naked in the negotiating chamber after all.

 

It looks like May has made the single biggest miscalculation of a situation since Icarus decided to fly his wax wings to close to the sun.

[benjii]

I just had a soft breakfast.

[Pamplemousse]

All Labour have to do is hold their vote. Normally, getting 40% of the vote = a landslide.

 

The longer the Conservatives remain in power, the more unpopular they will get. Especially if they associate themselves with the DUP, which will turn off moderate voters in their droves. They only need to go down in the next vote to the high/mid 30s and they're toast.

[OldNick]

Hello right-wing nutjobs, just thought I'd leave this with you

 

 

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

 

Viva la revolución!

to be fair he is not a champagne socialist, but the majority are

 

Brilliant bit of bribary getting the kids onside by offering free uni fees and £10 an hour. Not bright enough to realise that that will just price them out of work

[OldNick]

http://www.newyorker.com/news/daily-comment/the-book-of-jeremy-corbyn?mbid=social_facebook

[whelk]

If there was referendum tomorrow on Brexit with May in charge of negotiating a hard Brexit don't reckon they'd get 30% #willofthepeople

[OldNick]

If there was referendum tomorrow on Brexit with May in charge of negotiating a hard Brexit don't reckon they'd get 30% #willofthepeople

Please explain what exactly what a hard brexit is?? I have heard about soft and hard brexits but nobody has quite come out and told us

[whelk]

Please explain what exactly what a hard brexit is?? I have heard about soft and hard brexits but nobody has quite come out and told us

 

I've only read what has been put out there. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-39858788

[suewhistle]

It looks like May has made the single biggest miscalculation of a situation since Icarus decided to fly his wax wings to close to the sun.

 

I think the word that sums it all up is hubris.

 

With a bit of schadenfreude on the side.

 

Good these 'ere foreign lingos, eh?

 

As I'm limited in my number of posts I might as well go on to say that not supporting Trident is really not as big a deal as we think. We couldn't develop, maintain and operate without U.S. help, and we certainly couldn't use without US say so. In the meantime our conventional forces are down to bare bones. We live near Portsmouth: ask anyone in the know about our type 45 frigates, we've got only one squadron of fully operational Tornadoes, and so it goes.

 

If you want to look at domestic security, which is more important for most of us Teresa May as Home Secretary oversaw a reduction in police numbers of 20,000, major reductions in border force staff (wait until the French start getting shirty at their ports!) and reductions in prison staff and probation numbers so that suicides are up, drug use is up, rehabilitation is going out the window and prisons are now even more effective academies for radicalising disaffected youth.

 

A shambles in so many ways and I haven't even started on the NHS, education and Brexit. I don't particular like Corbyn or think him PM material, but he's come out of the situation with a lot more dignity than May, and has done well in spite of a virulent, nasty press - 13 pages of character assassination in the Mail, I think it was.

 

Anyway, I'd better keep a post for the new manager debate where I occasionally drop in to see what that trolling runt Heisenberg has to say for himself..

[Jonnyboy]

Wrong again. I've voted against the Tories more than I've voted for them,in something like a dozen elections. I voted for them this time, not particularly because of May, but because Corbyn & his henchmen are lunatics.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

Still trotting out the tabloid line. Thing is, the majority of people under 55 haven't fallen for it.

[shurlock]

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

If Carslberg did meltdowns, this would be it, no matter how much you protest.

 

A bit of context is helpful. Just seven weeks ago people spoke about Tory majorities upwards of 80, 100, 120, even 150. Dismal local council election results in early May added to the gloom and sense of inevitability. The British Labour Party, aged 117, was supposedly on the brink of extinction - privately leading Tories viewed the election as a historic opportunity to put Labour out of its misery, once and for all. May was poised to become the most powerful leader in Europe, rivalling German Chancellor Angela Merkel.

 

Far from being destroyed, Labour now has a genuine chance of catching the Tories at the next election. Where Tories held seats they've seen majorities of 10,000 slashed to a few hundred. Like it or not, they have a narrative that resonates with many parts of the country, even with distinctly non-Labour constituencies. It now has time to prepare and refine that message. What's the Tories vision for the future -other than turning deficit reduction into some kind of moral crusade which even May feels uncomfortable with?

 

If the momentum is with Labour, the air is coming out of the Tories. May has been fatally wounded and internal party divisions are ready to erupt; hard Brexit is dead in water, just as other controversial policies from social care to grammar schools are; clouds are gathering over the economy. Never mind that it has to take responsibility for the most complex negotiations in modern peacetime British history and deliver on ludicrously high and incompatible promises.

 

All Labour needs to do is sit and watch and reap the dividends provided it does not misplay its hand (though I have my suspicions). Yet the most nagging and searing fact of all is that this was wholly avoidable. Perhaps you're still trapped in the first stage of grief -denial; but your lot well and truly bottled it.

Edited 10 June, 2017 by shurlock

[revolution saint]

What you on about, my party? I don't have a party, I vote for who I consider the best for the UK. I'm with his back benchers, I have no confidence in Corbyn being capable of leading this country. There's a reason after 30+ years in parliament nobody has considered him front bench material.

 

We dodged a bullet yesterday and I think you lefties are underestimating the Tories ability to ruthlessly hold onto power. Labour have now failed to win 3 elections running & now have Corbyn & his henchmen entrenched. The blair wing won't keep quiet for too long, particularly if Trident & other further left policies are proposed. If I was a Tory strategist I'd play the long game. Nothing controversial, just run the country with the DUP & May in charge. DD will get a Brexit deal that labour will have to sign up to or appear to be blocking Brexit .Then they can move on May. A seat should be found for Davidson , Lord Mundell has a certain ring to it. Davidson soon calls election to get her own mandate and it's Davidson against 71/72 year old Corbyn. There's no other way they can play it. If they call an election within the next 2 years , they're screwed. They won't move on May yet as she's the patsy. They've got their backs to the wall, but they've got an unelectable opponent. If they can drag this out for 4 years, that's plenty of time to get a fresh face in and plenty of time for the moderates to rip the Labour Party in two.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

The problem with your analysis is that you forget the Tory habit of ripping itself apart over Europe. They can't help themselves. There must be loads of games being played even now and May won't have any power to stop them - she'll try and pander to both sides of her party and the only thing she'll achieve is ****ing them all off. She'll be seen as a dead man walking, with no authority and a liability. Sooner rather than later she'll have to face a leadership election - there might not be any worthy candidates but there are certainly some ambitious non-worthy ones around. So, how's that for a different prediction?

[whelk]

If Carslberg did meltdowns, this would be it, no matter how much you protest.

 

A bit of context is helpful. Just seven weeks ago people spoke about Tory majorities upwards of 80, 100, 120, even 150. Dismal local council election results in early May added to the gloom and sense of inevitability. The British Labour Party, aged 117, was supposedly on the brink of extinction - privately leading Tories viewed the election as a historic opportunity to put Labour out of its misery, once and for all. May was poised to become the most powerful leader in Europe, rivalling German Chancellor Angela Merkel.

 

Far from being destroyed, Labour now has a genuine chance of catching the Tories at the next election. Where Tories held seats they've seen majorities of 10,000 slashed to a few hundred. Like it or not, they have a narrative that resonates with many parts of the country, even with distinctly non-Labour constituencies. It now has time to prepare and refine that message. What's the Tories vision for the future -other than turning deficit reduction into some kind of moral crusade which even May feels uncomfortable with?

 

If the momentum is with Labour, the air is coming out of the Tories. May has been fatally wounded and internal party divisions are ready to erupt; hard Brexit is dead in water, just as other controversial policies from social care to grammar schools are; clouds are gathering over the economy. Never mind that it has to take responsibility for the most complex negotiations in modern peacetime British history and deliver on ludicrously high and incompatible promises.

 

All Labour needs to do is sit and watch and reap the dividends provided it does not misplay its hand (though I have my suspicions). Yet the most nagging and searing fact of all is that this was wholly avoidable. Perhaps you're still trapped in the first stage of grief -denial; but your lot well and truly bottled it.

 

Well put. V good post.

[whelk]

See Nick Timothy and Fiona Hill have paid the price

[Verbal]

Agree that Ruth Davidson is one of the more credible contenders for the leadership who would appeal to the electorate.

 

Not sure that I'd agree that Corbyn is unelectable after this week though.

 

Davidson won't stand for a Westminster seat until at least 2022. Her ambition is to be top dog at Hollyrood.

 

Corbyn has had a brilliant election, far better than anyone - including most around him - expected. There are at least three questions about his and Labour's future, though:

 

1. Can he be the leader many people who supported him think he is, or will he be unable to break free of his dismal 30-year record as a do-nothing virtue-signaller with dubious friendships.

 

2. Can Corbyn acquire some Westminster party-organisational skills to counter his tendency to date to foster chaos all around him, and to alienate large sections of the PLP? In other words, will he, finally, come to the realisation that the PLP is vital for any traction, given how much talent was left squandered on the back benches while ludicrously poor politicians like Abbott were promoted to some of the most sensitive and senior positions on the front benches.

 

3. Can Corbyn control the grievance-soaked stupidity of some of his most painfully cultish supporters? We had a little textbook example of that on here with Fanboy, trashing anyone who had a critical opinion of Corbyn for having been less than fawning, and accusing them of being 'Blairites', Red Tories, etc., etc. Fanboy and fellow acolytes in the real world will have to get used to the idea that people - especially those who actually voted Labour despite strong reservations about Corbyn - are voters, and they don't take kindly to being labeled as class traitors for being broadly but not wholly supportive of Labour under its present management. Winning elections is about creating a broad church, not about whittling down the 'acceptable' electorate to those in slavish adoration of the Great Leader.

 

Am I optimistic that all three can happen? Not especially. But Labour have a fantastic opportunity. May has proved throughout the election campaign, and in her reckless alliance with the DUP, that she will be a disastrous negotiator of Brexit. The political fall out of that will be immense, and presents Labour with a real opportunity to regain power in 2022, if not before. The first signs of green shoots post-election will be if the real talents on the back benches not merely are promoted to the front benches, but have an active and collegial say in how Labour plots its way through the next two-to-five years.

[Jonnyboy]

Davidson won't stand for a Westminster seat until at least 2022. Her ambition is to be top dog at Hollyrood.

 

Corbyn has had a brilliant election, far better than anyone - including most around him - expected. There are at least three questions about his and Labour's future, though:

 

1. Can he be the leader many people who supported him think he is, or will he be unable to break free of his dismal 30-year record as a do-nothing virtue-signaller with dubious friendships.

 

2. Can Corbyn acquire some Westminster party-organisational skills to counter his tendency to date to foster chaos all around him, and to alienate large sections of the PLP? In other words, will he, finally, come to the realisation that the PLP is vital for any traction, given how much talent was left squandered on the back benches while ludicrously poor politicians like Abbott were promoted to some of the most sensitive and senior positions on the front benches.

 

3. Can Corbyn control the grievance-soaked stupidity of some of his most painfully cultish supporters? We had a little textbook example of that on here with Fanboy, trashing anyone who had a critical opinion of Corbyn for having been less than fawning, and accusing them of being 'Blairites', Red Tories, etc., etc. Fanboy and fellow acolytes in the real world will have to get used to the idea that people - especially those who actually voted Labour despite strong reservations about Corbyn - are voters, and they don't take kindly to being labeled as class traitors for being broadly but not wholly supportive of Labour under its present management. Winning elections is about creating a broad church, not about whittling down the 'acceptable' electorate to those in slavish adoration of the Great Leader.

 

Am I optimistic that all three can happen? Not especially. But Labour have a fantastic opportunity. May has proved throughout the election campaign, and in her reckless alliance with the DUP, that she will be a disastrous negotiator of Brexit. The political fall out of that will be immense, and presents Labour with a real opportunity to regain power in 2022, if not before. The first signs of green shoots post-election will be if the real talents on the back benches not merely are promoted to the front benches, but have an active and collegial say in how Labour plots its way through the next two-to-five years.

 

Time for the Blairites to get behind him 100% from now on.

[CB Fry]

See Nick Timothy and Fiona Hill have paid the price

1922 Committee: yes, you can continue as Prime Minister and lead us into the most complex and important negotiations this country has ever known, but only if you are utterly emaciated by the removal of your two most trusted advisors and the people that give you unwavering support, advice and confidence.

 

Nothing can possibly go wrong.

[shurlock]

Rumours that the great forum hope Davidson is planning a Scottish Tory breakaway over differences with May on Brexit. Either way she has already pledged to use her Commons votes to prioritise the single market over curbing immigration.

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/06/09/ruth-davidson-planning-scottish-tory-breakaway-challenges-theresa/

Edited 10 June, 2017 by shurlock