buctootim Posted 30 May, 2017 Share Posted 30 May, 2017 I caught the end of that earlier. This bit disappointed me: Interviewer: - If you lose, will you resign as leader? JC: - I won't lose Interviewer: - But if you do, will you stand down as leader? JC: - I'm planning to win. Interviewer: - But what if you don't? JC: - I'm planning to win. Would it be so hard for him to say he hadn't made up his mind yet? I thought Corbyn was above 'not answering questions'. tbf to him he couldnt answer. If he had the headlines would have been either "Corbyn to resign" or "Corbyn doesn't believe he will win" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonnyboy Posted 30 May, 2017 Share Posted 30 May, 2017 Actually, I take back my original prediction. I now reckon there will be a hung parliament with an anti-Tory coalition being formed. (yes, I know most of the 'anti-Tory' parties have ruled out forming such a coalition but this is politicians we're talking about here...) p.s. does anyone know if this reverse psychology malarkey stands any chance of succeeding....? That's what should have happened in 2010 but Miliband couldn't bring himself to cosy up with the SNP. Hopefully Corbo is up for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nolan Posted 30 May, 2017 Share Posted 30 May, 2017 Who was running the country and who was Prime Minister between 2010 - 2015 then? Dennis Skinner? I've always understood the way coalitions to work is give and take. ie. We will put in your manifesto pledge if you allow us to do this, we will give you an AV referendum if you leave that. That's why Cleggs student fees policies were dropped for example. Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nolan Posted 30 May, 2017 Share Posted 30 May, 2017 Emily Thornberry had told the Royal United Services Institute that we 'can't export food to Australia as it will go off.' Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shurlock Posted 30 May, 2017 Share Posted 30 May, 2017 I've always understood the way coalitions to work is give and take. ie. We will put in your manifesto pledge if you allow us to do this, we will give you an AV referendum if you leave that. That's why Cleggs student fees policies were dropped for example. Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk You mean the Lib Dems give and the Tories take, pal? Guess you missed the module in recent political history; but the Tories were the dominant member of the coalition and got their way on most things. Was in government at the time and the Lib Dems were literally pleading for crumbs, begging to have major, heavily signposted policy announcements included on that week's grid only for their coalition partners to turn around and postpone them at the last minute because Steve Hilton had a policy idea while on the shîttér that morning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nolan Posted 30 May, 2017 Share Posted 30 May, 2017 You mean the Lib Dems give and the Tories take, pal? Guess you missed the module in recent political history; but the Tories were the dominant member of the coalition and got their way on most things. Was in government at the time and the Lib Dems were literally pleading for crumbs, begging to have major, heavily signposted policy announcements included on that week's grid only for their coalition partners to turn around and postpone it because Steve Hilton had a policy idea while on the shîttér that morning. I take it you didn't partake in the AV referendum then? Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shurlock Posted 30 May, 2017 Share Posted 30 May, 2017 (edited) I take it you didn't partake in the AV referendum then? Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk What of '...on most things' don't you understand, pal? And everything about the AV referendum (from the format of the referendum to the proposed system itself), so far from being a massive concession, paradoxically showed the limits of the Lib Dems power. You might want to pick a better example. Edited 30 May, 2017 by shurlock Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CB Fry Posted 30 May, 2017 Share Posted 30 May, 2017 I've always understood the way coalitions to work is give and take. ie. We will put in your manifesto pledge if you allow us to do this, we will give you an AV referendum if you leave that. That's why Cleggs student fees policies were dropped for example. Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk Except, of course, the "this" that the Lib Dems "allowed" them to "do" was, like, the economic policy and direction of the entire country. And they get to run the nation's education. And the NHS. And foreign policy. And law and order and immigration, some bird called Theresa looked after that. And Justice. And pretty much everything. But, yeah, pupil premiums and Vince Cable got to go to China. That definitely means there was absolute no Tory government until 2015. Of course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aintforever Posted 30 May, 2017 Share Posted 30 May, 2017 You mean the Lib Dems give and the Tories take, pal? Guess you missed the module in recent political history; but the Tories were the dominant member of the coalition and got their way on most things. Was in government at the time and the Lib Dems were literally pleading for crumbs, begging to have major, heavily signposted policy announcements included on that week's grid only for their coalition partners to turn around and postpone them at the last minute because Steve Hilton had a policy idea while on the shîttér that morning. To be fair they implemented quite a few things from their manifesto: https://whatthehellhavethelibdemsdone.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shurlock Posted 30 May, 2017 Share Posted 30 May, 2017 To be fair they implemented quite a few things from their manifesto: https://whatthehellhavethelibdemsdone.com Certainly the Lib Dems met some manifesto pledges -not least as there was ideological overlap between Cameron's closest circle and the Orange Book wing of the Lib Dems. Of course, none of this refutes the braindead contention that the Tories weren't in power from 2010-2015. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aintforever Posted 30 May, 2017 Share Posted 30 May, 2017 Of course, none of this refutes the braindead contention that the Tories weren't in power from 2010-2015. Of course they were, with the Lib Dems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nolan Posted 30 May, 2017 Share Posted 30 May, 2017 Certainly the Lib Dems met some manifesto pledges -not least as there was ideological overlap between Cameron's closest circle and the Orange Book wing of the Lib Dems. Of course, none of this refutes the braindead contention that the Tories weren't in power from 2010-2015. Things like the marriage tax allowance would have come in pre 2015 had the Conservative head full feign of things. The coalition waters down everything. Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aintforever Posted 30 May, 2017 Share Posted 30 May, 2017 Of course, none of this refutes the braindead contention that the Tories weren't in power from 2010-2015. Of course they were, with the Lib Dems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
badgerx16 Posted 30 May, 2017 Share Posted 30 May, 2017 EB: How much will it cost? JC: Er, it will cost, er. It will obviously cost a lot, we accept that. The complete & utter incompetence is staggering. Every single labour policy will be met with " how much will it cost" & " how are you going to fund it" , to not have that figure to hand beggars belief. God if the Tories could get 50/60 majority & keep Corbyn as the opposition leader, all their Xmas' will have come at once. There was a discussion on the radio this afternoon where somebody pointed out that the Tories have presented almost nothing in the way of costings for their manifesto. Is that also "complete and utter incompetence" ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nolan Posted 30 May, 2017 Share Posted 30 May, 2017 There was a discussion on the radio this afternoon where somebody pointed out that the Tories have presented almost nothing in the way of costings for their manifesto. Is that also "complete and utter incompetence" ? No, it's an understanding that a manifesto is not a budget. If you present firm numbers in a number you leave yourself open to criticism when those numbers change, and seeing as inflation and interest rates aren't controllable, not to mention any Brexit agreements, it would be foolish to present costings. Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
badgerx16 Posted 30 May, 2017 Share Posted 30 May, 2017 Didn't someone say David Davis was a member of the Communist Party. . Fat **** Eric Pickles certainly was. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
badgerx16 Posted 30 May, 2017 Share Posted 30 May, 2017 No, it's an understanding that a manifesto is not a budget. If you present firm numbers in a number you leave yourself open to criticism when those numbers change, and seeing as inflation and interest rates aren't controllable, not to mention any Brexit agreements, it would be foolish to present costings. Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk So Jezza is doing the right thing then ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nolan Posted 30 May, 2017 Share Posted 30 May, 2017 Fat **** Eric Pickles certainly was. He showed interest in it between 14-16. He's joined the conservatives at age 16 in protest of the USSR invading czechslovakia. Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shurlock Posted 30 May, 2017 Share Posted 30 May, 2017 (edited) No, it's an understanding that a manifesto is not a budget. If you present firm numbers in a number you leave yourself open to criticism when those numbers change, and seeing as inflation and interest rates aren't controllable, not to mention any Brexit agreements, it would be foolish to present costings. Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk As if you wouldn't be wetting your little blue knickers if Labour hadn't costed their policies. Lack of accountability wah wah wah. Pie in the sky wah wah wah. Only complete morons would treat costings as hard constraints, rather than estimates around which there is inevitable uncertainty. Most people understand how 'quotes' work in their daily lives. Perhaps you don't, alas. The IEA makes a sensible case for costings here, mindful of the challenges and complexities involved: https://iea.org.uk/should-manifestos-be-costed/ Edited 30 May, 2017 by shurlock Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nolan Posted 30 May, 2017 Share Posted 30 May, 2017 Obviously thats why no one's bothered about the defecit not being eliminated yet. Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGTL Posted 31 May, 2017 Share Posted 31 May, 2017 'Sterling falls after polls suggest hung parliament' headline on BBC I don't care much for the current Labour hierarchy, but to see May blow it THAT much would be quite funny. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nolan Posted 31 May, 2017 Share Posted 31 May, 2017 The Times / you gov poll does have all the psephologists perplexed. They also predicted a Miliband Victory. I suppose we'll know the truth in 9 days. Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Verbal Posted 31 May, 2017 Share Posted 31 May, 2017 The Times / you gov poll does have all the psephologists perplexed. They also predicted a Miliband Victory. I suppose we'll know the truth in 9 days. Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk If the May can run a campaign this badly, you wonder how on earth she'll manage Brexit. Corbyn, on the other hand, has done pretty well so long as he's mindered (the Women's Hour debacle notwithstanding). The evidence of the sidelining of the deathly Suemas Milne and his replacement by experienced GMB campaigners is a smarter, crisper Corbyn who for the most part has stayed on message. Corbyn's campaign has also made a greater effort than the Tories might have predicted to reach out beyond its base. Corbyn is the last person you'd expect to steal his core slogan from Tony Blair, but that's exactly what this election is being fought on - and it's a pretty hotly contested piece of Blairism at that. For 'the many not the few' is a direct lift from Blair's rewriting of Labour's Clause IV - part of the great 'watering down' of Labour's socialist declaration of faith. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benjii Posted 31 May, 2017 Share Posted 31 May, 2017 I just can't see it. The Tories might not get a huge landslide but how are they going to lose their majority? Who are the people who voted for them last time going to vote for this time to cause them to lose seats? And they will hoover up a lot of UKIP votes and probably make gains in Wales and Scotland. Unless Corbyn has mobilised a load of new voters, I just can't see it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nolan Posted 31 May, 2017 Share Posted 31 May, 2017 Yesterday's icm poll had the tories on a 12% lead. Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whelk Posted 31 May, 2017 Share Posted 31 May, 2017 I just can't see it. The Tories might not get a huge landslide but how are they going to lose their majority? Who are the people who voted for them last time going to vote for this time to cause them to lose seats? And they will hoover up a lot of UKIP votes and probably make gains in Wales and Scotland. Unless Corbyn has mobilised a load of new voters, I just can't see it. The youth hopefully but won't hold my breath Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nolan Posted 31 May, 2017 Share Posted 31 May, 2017 The youth hopefully. One of the polls assumed an 82% turnout in the 18-24s which, if true, would rewrite all the rule books. Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whelk Posted 31 May, 2017 Share Posted 31 May, 2017 One of the polls assumed an 82% turnout in the 18-24s which, if true, would rewrite all the rule books. Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk They should jst take the Internet down on Election Day. Without their phones they won't have anything to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitey Grandad Posted 31 May, 2017 Share Posted 31 May, 2017 They should jst take the Internet down on Election Day. Without their phones they won't have anything to do. Certainly wouldn't be able to post on football forums and suchlike. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shurlock Posted 31 May, 2017 Share Posted 31 May, 2017 Certainly wouldn't be able to post on football forums and suchlike. They should post nun pics to football forums and suchlike - would keep the old fårts distracted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buctootim Posted 31 May, 2017 Share Posted 31 May, 2017 They should post nun pics to football forums and suchlike - would keep the old fårts distracted. Not necessarily Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whelk Posted 31 May, 2017 Share Posted 31 May, 2017 Not necessarily TBF the one on left looks a bit of a goer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buctootim Posted 31 May, 2017 Share Posted 31 May, 2017 There was a good article in the Times (I think) yesterday explaining the apparent wide discrepancy in the headline figures of the polls. Basically it said the raw data of all the polling companies was very close, showing there isnt a 'polling problem' per se. The difference comes depending on how the company adjusts the raw data. The polls showing a small Tory lead, like YouGov, are mostly unadjusted - the same method as in the last election. The big Tory lead polls include various analyses of how likely different age groups are to vote, but also crucially a further adjustment based on who people think would make the best Prime Minister. The 'Best Prime Minister' stat produced a better match with the actual party results than anything else in 2015. So unless Labour gain another 5 or 6 points or the young really turn out to vote, its probably not going to be close. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aintforever Posted 31 May, 2017 Share Posted 31 May, 2017 I just can't see it. The Tories might not get a huge landslide but how are they going to lose their majority? Who are the people who voted for them last time going to vote for this time to cause them to lose seats? And they will hoover up a lot of UKIP votes and probably make gains in Wales and Scotland. Unless Corbyn has mobilised a load of new voters, I just can't see it. It's a choice between a bunch of nasty c**ts and a bunch of idiots - I think much will depend on which voters can be arsed to walk down to the polling station. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buctootim Posted 31 May, 2017 Share Posted 31 May, 2017 Corbyn has announced he will take part in the live debate tonight whilst May has ruled it out. Could be a clever move by him, isolating her as the only one refusing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGTL Posted 31 May, 2017 Share Posted 31 May, 2017 Very clever move. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manuel Posted 31 May, 2017 Share Posted 31 May, 2017 Yes, I notice he's appearing on everything at the moment and is coming across well. He needs to counter the BBC which has become a party political broadcast for the Conservative party. So biased it's embarrassing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moonraker Posted 31 May, 2017 Share Posted 31 May, 2017 What will be interesting is how small number of strong remain constituencies vote where their sitting MP was a Tory. Here in Bath it will be very tight, long time LD MP steps down Tories get back in. Very strong remain vote, 68%, it will only take a few such constituency’s, mainly LD challenger, to oust the sitting Tory based on Hard Brexit. It is these kinds of battles that no amount of national polling can account for in FPTP system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Verbal Posted 31 May, 2017 Share Posted 31 May, 2017 Yes, I notice he's appearing on everything at the moment and is coming across well. He needs to counter the BBC which has become a party political broadcast for the Conservative party. So biased it's embarrassing. Yep, and in the latest instance, how dare the Women's Hour journalist Emma Barnett be Jewish - sorry, forgetting the code word - Zionist! To see some Corbynistas frothing at the mouth at her Jewishness sets the Labour campaign back much further than any interview faux pas by Corbyn himself, who afterwards made an appropriate condemnation of his supporters' behaviour. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shurlock Posted 31 May, 2017 Share Posted 31 May, 2017 (edited) Yep, and in the latest instance, how dare the Women's Hour journalist Emma Barnett be Jewish - sorry, forgetting the code word - Zionist! To see some Corbynistas frothing at the mouth at her Jewishness sets the Labour campaign back much further than any interview faux pas by Corbyn himself, who afterwards made an appropriate condemnation of his supporters' behaviour. Emma Barnett is an airhead and sh*t-stirrer, not as bad as Louise Mensch (yet) but has similar pretensions- she hardly covered herself in glory during coverage of Operation Protective Edge in 2014. Edited 31 May, 2017 by shurlock Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Verbal Posted 31 May, 2017 Share Posted 31 May, 2017 Emma Barnett is an airhead and sh*t-stirrer, not as bad as Louise Mensch (yet) but has similar pretensions- she hardly covered herself in glory during coverage of Operation Protective Edge in 2014. Your problem with women is noted. Aren't you the one who used the standard misogynist's term of abuse - 'shrill' - to attack Laura Kuenssberg? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buctootim Posted 31 May, 2017 Share Posted 31 May, 2017 (edited) Your problem with women is noted. Aren't you the one who used the standard misogynist's term of abuse - 'shrill' - to attack Laura Kuenssberg? Does Kuenssberg have videos of yours? You launch a Pavlovian defence every time there is even mild criticism of her. She really isnt as good as she thinks. Fire away. Edited 31 May, 2017 by buctootim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benjii Posted 31 May, 2017 Share Posted 31 May, 2017 Bad choice from the Tories to send Amber Rudd along tonight. She's awful. Not even "shrill", just awful. Should have sent BoJo for the laughs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manuel Posted 31 May, 2017 Share Posted 31 May, 2017 Kuenssberg is the worst of them all. Enemy of the people, spreading her pro-Tory propaganda all over the BBC. I don't mind bias from ITV or Sky, but when we're forced to pay a fee for 'independent, impartial and honest' reporting, and they abjectly fail, they should go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trousers Posted 31 May, 2017 Author Share Posted 31 May, 2017 Corbyn has announced he will take part in the live debate tonight Pesky politicians.... always u-turning on previous decisions.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buctootim Posted 31 May, 2017 Share Posted 31 May, 2017 Pesky politicians.... always u-turning on previous decisions.... Not sure it was a U turn, more of a devious trap. Pesky politicians Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shurlock Posted 31 May, 2017 Share Posted 31 May, 2017 Your problem with women is noted. Aren't you the one who used the standard misogynist's term of abuse - 'shrill' - to attack Laura Kuenssberg? Yep, she is shrill, isn't she? Can add Sarah Vine, Melanie Phillips and the new generation of guardianistas (Jessica Valenti, Laurie Penny etc) to that list. By contrast, Sarah Montague, Anne McElvoy, Gillian Tett. Kirsty Wark, Marina Hyde, Roula Khalaf etc -all very good. Also greatly admire the work of Kathleen Parker and Hu Shuli. Remind what your point was again? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trousers Posted 31 May, 2017 Author Share Posted 31 May, 2017 Not sure it was a U turn, more of a devious trap. Pesky politicians I like the style of your spin sir Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benjii Posted 31 May, 2017 Share Posted 31 May, 2017 Actually, the Tories shouldn't attend at all if May won't do it. They either want to be part of it - in which case May should be there - or they don't, in which case it's nonsense to send along a non-leader to a leader's debate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nolan Posted 31 May, 2017 Share Posted 31 May, 2017 I think the conservatives should pull out. Leave Corbyn to get the barracking from the minor parties. Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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