General election? June 8th?

[Wade Garrett]

I thought Corbyn was unelectable, I thought he was a poor leader. However as the election campaign develops, there is no question that Corbyn is demonstrating he is a much more rounded politician than automaton May. When he talks, he is actually in touch with the feelings associated with his words.

Theresa May is anything but strong and stable. She was so far ahead in the polls she thought she could get away with shafting working and middle class families by snatching their children's inheritance to pay for social care. The moment her ratings took a nose dive she U-turned. If she was truly passionate about the policy, she would stick to her convictions, not bring in a cap and then argue that black was white that the manifesto pledge had not changed

Theresa May's words are not in touch with her feelings, her words are in touch with 'being on message'. She is obsessed with damaging Jeremy Corbyn, because when she looks too deeply at the conservative record and their policies, there is much to cover up. Since 2010, the following has happened

(1) The overall tax burden as a % of GDP is the highest it has been for thirty years. Higher than in the mid-seventies. All the Tories have done is shift taxation from income tax to taxes on spending and increased it.

(2) You will love this one - The conservative party have spent more and paid less back into the treasury, over any period you wish to look at, despite the myth of labour profligacy and conservative prudence. http://www.taxresearch.org.uk/Blog/2016/03/13/the-conservatives-have-been-the-biggest-borrowers-over-the-last-70-years/

(3) Collapse in the number of Employment tribunal claims since the fee to bring a claim has increased from £200 to over £1,000. (only 1% of 54,000 pregnant women who have been unfairly dismissed have claimed at a tribunal)

(4) Just about managing working families have lost on average £2,000 per year in tax credits cuts. Corporation tax cut to 19%. The lowest of the 'wealthy' EU states.

(5) Social Care - 40% cuts to Local Authority budgets.

(6) NHS - Real term cut in funding

(7) Real term cut in education spending

( Employment rights eroding away. The Tories have increased the time to two years before an employee can bring a claim. A refusal to regulate against zero hour contracts, when this is one of the single biggest causes of poverty and reliance on food banks

(9) An exponential increase in the use of food banks.

(10) A social security system that makes a concerted effort to make it difficult to claim. A sanctions system that is aimed at saving money, not helping the unemployed get back into work.

These ten points are the tip of the iceberg. If we want a cohesive and fair society, that will not result in economic collapse (stop believing the tory bull**** on labours record (see point 2 above)), then there is only one person and party to vote for. Vote Corbyn. Vote Labour.

 

Isn't a shame that Momentum hijacked the Labour Party that I supported all my life and installed Corbyn as leader. With that record in government, a Labour Party run by the likes of Dan Jarvis, David Milliband, James Purnell and Liz Kendall, would have had a really good chance of beating the Tories.

 

Instead, Labour have Corbyn, Abbott, Thornberry and Corbyn's mate whose name I can't even remember at the moment, but he's the one who like Corbyn has spent a lifetime sucking off terrorists. Absolute joke of a party now, who are a million miles from getting my vote.

[OldNick]

That's what you right wingers obsession is all about though isn't it? It all boils down to a twisted implication that socialists somehow how hate the country (even more than Ed Miliband's father, and his cat did) and somehow would want all invading armies to be let in. It seems to go back to the language of the cold war and beyond, the paranoia of the communist enemy within.

a man who at a time when our own people and servicemen were being targeted by the IRA Corbyn was not condemning their actions. I suspect you were not alive then and so can look at it with 'oh those poor people being downtrodden and so have to kill Brits'

To have somebody as weak as Corbyn trying to talk to despots is ridiculous. (it was interesting last night how on have I got news for you the headline was weak men are more likely to be socialists) He is weak and I'm sure he will be able to stop those beheadings by going across to them in his linen suit and sandals and say to them 'Don't do that'

[John B]

Isn't a shame that Momentum hijacked the Labour Party that I supported all my life and installed Corbyn as leader. With that record in government, a Labour Party run by the likes of Dan Jarvis, David Milliband, James Purnell and Liz Kendall, would have had a really good chance of beating the Tories.

 

Instead, Labour have Corbyn, Abbott, Thornberry and Corbyn's mate whose name I can't even remember at the moment, but he's the one who like Corbyn has spent a lifetime sucking off terrorists. Absolute joke of a party now, who are a million miles from getting my vote.

 

Yes I agree just met an old Labour MP whilst I was taking the dog for a walk who said something similar but he like me thinks May is pretty useless and particularly nasty and if we dont vote Labour she will become nastier

 

 

 

I was this which seems to be how I feel about Mrs May

 

 

The Conservative plan for this election was for it to be about personalities rather than policies. Theresa May versus Jeremy Corbyn. The question that the Conservatives want people to be thinking about as they cast their vote is which of the two do you think will be better at negotiating a good Brexit deal for Britain. And the polls suggest that many have made up their mind the answer is May.

 

 

Making a choice based on personalities may not be a completely stupid thing to do. However people with little knowledge can be extremely poor judges of character. I shouldn’t really have to argue the case for this, but simply point to the current POTUS. How anyone could believe that he would improve the healthcare system and sort out the financial sector is beyond me, but then I had read a lot about him so it is difficult for me to imagine what someone less interested in politics might think. But we know in other situations that brief contacts can be very misleading: job interviews are an obvious example, as are interviews of prospective students. We think we can judge character with very little information, and we often fool ourselves in that respect.

 

 

Or take, as an another example, Theresa May. Some of us may laugh at the endless repetition of ‘strong and stable’, but good propaganda is always based on a half-truth, and the half truth here is that many voters do think she is a cautious operator and a safe pair of hands. It is likely most people get this belief not from a detailed examination of her past actions, but from how she comes across in sound bites and interviews on the TV.

 

 

The reality seems rather different. Her actions since becoming Prime Minister appear ill-judged and reckless. Take, for example, the pointless attempt to prevent parliament voting on Article 50. A strong and stable Prime Minister would (with a small amount of research) have realised that very few MPs within her party were prepared to be seen to ignore the referendum, and that therefore she would easily get her way. Instead she fought and lost a pointless battle in the courts. It had not been the first time she had wasted public money in this way.

 

 

Much more serious were the decisions she took immediately after the referendum. There was no need to immediately attempt to define what the referendum really meant, but she impulsively did so in terms of reducing immigration and not being bound by rulings from the European court. It effectively condemned the UK to leaving the Single Market and a Hard Brexit, something that absolutely was not implied by such a close vote. And she chose three Brexiteers to be in charge of the negotiations, which was not a ‘clever political move’ but a disaster in terms of formulating realistic plans for negotiations with the EU. In fact it is rather difficult to think of a single good decision she has taken since becoming PM.

 

 

Anyone who thinks her previous stint at the Home Office was more of a success should read the article by Jonathan Foreman that the Daily Telegraph pulled after pressure from her campaign. It ends “There’s a vast gulf between being effective in office, and being effective at promoting yourself; it’s not one that Theresa May has yet crossed.” That could be dismissed as exaggeration at a time of internal battles to become Tory leader, but it chimes with accounts by others. The Foreman article describes her as the most disliked member of two cabinets, unable to work easily with colleagues. Secretive, rigid, controlling, even vengeful are other adjectives used.

 

Two characteristics she shows is a lack of collegiality, and a tendency to adopt firm positions when flexibility was required. A clear example of that is the inclusion of students in the target total for net migration, which has done great damage to one of our stronger export industries, as well as causing untold distress to many people. It is difficult to think of any rational reason to obstinately refuse to remedy this mistake, beyond that it might appear to show ‘weakness’ in May herself.

 

 

The desire to project a false image of strength is unlikely to survive her encounter with the EU. As yet, she has done little to prepare the country for the many retreats she will have to make. Perhaps she thinks she can just lie about this, as she has been caught doing on at least two (here and here) occasions. It is a testament to these character flaws that so many find it difficult to know whether she will do a deal with the EU, or walk away in a faux gesture of defiant strength. Drawing unnecessary lines in the sand, personal aloofness and obstinacy designed to project an image of personal strength, are decidedly not the qualities you want in negotiating with the EU.

 

 

Just as with Donald Trump, initial appearances can be deceptive. As her many U-turns suggest, she is far from strong and stable. The spin only works because authoritarian tendencies can easily be confused with strength and obstinacy can be confused with stability, and of course a powerful press can assist with the confusion. In reality it is difficult to imagine someone more ill-suited to making the best of the bad job that is Brexit, and on top of that we have grammar schools and an obsession with immigration. David Cameron may find that his reputation as the worst Prime Minister of modern times may not last very long.

[Jonnyboy]

a man who at a time when our own people and servicemen were being targeted by the IRA Corbyn was not condemning their actions. I suspect you were not alive then and so can look at it with 'oh those poor people being downtrodden and so have to kill Brits'

To have somebody as weak as Corbyn trying to talk to despots is ridiculous. (it was interesting last night how on have I got news for you the headline was weak men are more likely to be socialists) He is weak and I'm sure he will be able to stop those beheadings by going across to them in his linen suit and sandals and say to them 'Don't do that'

 

Saudi beheadings? The ones Trump and May have been sucking up to? Selling weapons to, some of which end up in isis hands? How exactly could a Labour government make that situation worse?

[Jonnyboy]

One doesn't need Google to know the LSE was founded by Fabians and is well established as a left wing institution. It's called being knowledge sweetheart.

 

 

So its clear, there are very few media outlets without any kind of bias. Including the bbc unfortunately.

 

For such a knowledgable person you've made quite a few grammatical errors in your last few posts.

[OldNick]

Saudi beheadings? The ones Trump and May have been sucking up to? Selling weapons to, some of which end up in isis hands? How exactly could a Labour government make that situation worse?

ISIS beheadings, they will shake in their boots as Corbyn sends a message of 20 doves as they kill and maim their way through the infidels. People like yourself and Corbyn are well meaning but live in a world of fantasy. ISIS will not change and they are playing the long game, Western society is soft and they believe the more of the soft 'dont punch my face, I forgive you' politicians take centre stage their power will grow. They dont care if it takes 50/100 years they know they will get their way eventually.

I wish Dubai Phil still posted , he has a tremendous insight into the Arab world and would I expect explain

[Jonnyboy]

ISIS beheadings, they will shake in their boots as Corbyn sends a message of 20 doves as they kill and maim their way through the infidels. People like yourself and Corbyn are well meaning but live in a world of fantasy. ISIS will not change and they are playing the long game, Western society is soft and they believe the more of the soft 'dont punch my face, I forgive you' politicians take centre stage their power will grow. They dont care if it takes 50/100 years they know they will get their way eventually.

I wish Dubai Phil still posted , he has a tremendous insight into the Arab world and would I expect explain

 

20 doves?? And you call mine a world of fantasy? No they don't, they want reactionary angry politicians who will cause more chaos in the middle east.

[CB Fry]

So its clear, there are very few media outlets without any kind of bias. Including the bbc unfortunately.

 

Yes, but there are just as many people on the right (and people actually inside or formerly inside the BBC) that talk about its bias towards the left.

 

Only fu cking idiots truly think the BBC is some right wing propaganda machine. Oh.

 

If anything the BBC is crippled by the desperation to show "balance" as we saw through the referendum campaign.

 

The news reporting the chaos confusion and general idiocy of the Corbyn cabal are not displaying bias. They're just reporting facts, as history will show.

[Batman]

20 doves?? And you call mine a world of fantasy? No they don't, they want reactionary angry politicians who will cause more chaos in the middle east.

 

how come Belgium is in a state, or the phillipines, or sweden...what the hell have they done to these poor souls in the middle east?

so, what foreign policy were the christians murdered in Egypt are to be blamed for?

Edited 27 May, 2017 by Batman

[OldNick]

How about having a government who actually puts people like this behind bars instead of suspended sentances. I bet they are local heroes now.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-england-hampshire-39730776/cctv-shows-woman-s-attack-on-taxi-driver

[Lord Duckhunter]

Didn't the Queen shake the hand of one of the ****s?

 

But did she deny she'd ever met him?

 

 

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[Nolan]

But did she deny she'd ever met him?

 

 

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The Queen met after the peace process.

 

Corbyn met one days after they killed people

 

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[buctootim]

Corbyn met one days after they killed people

 

Im confused. Why is it okay for Thatcher but not Corbyn? Is meeting with them better or worse than admiring them? Is is better or worse than pardoning them shortly after the Brighton bombing? Is hypocrisy for political point scoring better or worse than dishonesty?

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/terrorism-in-the-uk/11062418/Thatcher-granted-secret-pardon-to-IRA-terrorist.html

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/margaret-thatcher/10010531/Margaret-Thatchers-secret-admiration-for-IRA-hunger-strikers.html

Edited 27 May, 2017 by buctootim

[Batman]

ComRes poll in the Sunday Mirror/Independent on Sunday -- Cons 46%, Lab 34%, LD 8%, UKIP 5%, Greens 2%.

[Verbal]

This one seems to be a proper academic article from the London school of economics:

https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.lse.ac.uk/media%40lse/research/pdf/JeremyCorbyn/Cobyn-Report-FINAL.pdf&ved=0ahUKEwitk5fXxY7UAhVSaVAKHW7JBGkQFggdMAA&usg=AFQjCNHohyHvkVNlbwaiD-U33BdLIz5W2A&sig2=oBs0x9pJRc-eEG2tyzsO9Q

 

Let's leave aside for the moment that this report was written by a committed Corbynist.

 

https://think-left.org/tag/bart-cammaerts/

 

Let's also leave aside the dodgy methodology. (Under the report's own terms, if Corbyn does something stupid, like appoint only men to key ministries, and he's reported as doing that stupid thing, the LSE document counts the report as 'negative'. And where is the control analysis? Why wasn't the national newspaper coverage accorded to David Cameron set side by side with the coverage of Corbyn?)

 

And let's acknowledge the non-rocket-science fact that the bulk of the newspaper industry is right-wing. Always has been.

 

There are two newspapers in the LSE list which are broadly left-leaning and, at election time, broadly Labour-supporting - the Daily Mirror and The Guardian. Both of these newspapers have been thought to be so beyond the pale by the Corbyn inner circle that they have been denied access to the great leader at times when Sky, the Telegraph, and other right-wing-owned media were not. The Guardian site, furthermore, has been bombarded with a constant stream of hysterical abuse by Corbynists for failing to toe the Corbyn line. All the reporting the guardian has done - including breaking the Snowden story and countless investigations into social injustices - counts for nothing because the paper fails to see that its primary duty is to be a Pravda-like fan sheet for the wonder that is Jeremy.

 

So how horribly biased against Corbyn are the Mirror and the Guardian?

 

By this pro-Corbyn report, not at all.

 

Just under 20% of articles in the Guardian are classed as 'positive', and more than 70% of articles are either positive or neutral. Only around 16% are 'critical', and a tiny fraction - about 2% - are 'antagonistic'.

 

In the Mirror, the picture's much the same. Very slightly more are positive - a shade over 20%, and around 67% are either positive or neutral. About 7% re 'antagonistic'.

 

On the statistical evidence, neither of the newspapers is, overall, 'anti-Corbyn'. So why do hysterical Corbynists scram loudest at the 'establishment tools' at the Mirror and the Guardian?

 

The authors conclude by lumping the Guardian and the Mirror into a general condemnation of the press as the enemies of democracy.

 

This is bad research that's politically loaded. But if even bad research shows that the Mirror and the Guardian report Corbyn fairly, maybe it's time for you and other fanboys to stop whinnying.

[aintforever]

The Queen met after the peace process.

 

Corbyn met one days after they killed people

 

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Talking to the IRA is why we have peace now, I don't see any problem with it.

 

It obviously doesn't go down well with many flag waving mongs of the electorate but talking worked, not Thatchers approach.

[Batman]

Talking to the IRA is why we have peace now, I don't see any problem with it.

 

It obviously doesn't go down well with many flag waving mongs of the electorate but talking worked, not Thatchers approach.

 

he wasnt talking, he was egging them on

[aintforever]

he wasnt talking, he was egging them on

 

Where's your proof of that?

[Jonnyboy]

he wasnt talking, he was egging them on

 

As if.

[shirleysfc]

he wasnt talking, he was egging them on

 

Lol. You've had too much sun.

[Nolan]

Just read a labour blog about it...

 

http://labour-u****.co.uk/2015/08/07/the-idea-that-jeremy-corbyn-laid-the-foundations-for-peace-in-northern-ireland-is-total-fantasy/

 

Replace the 4 **** so the word reads u n c u t.

 

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[Batman]

Dianne Abbot on telly again.

Another terrible interview, demonstrating how awful she would be as a Home Sec

[whelk]

Is Abbott on tv because Jezza is getting worried he might become PM and needs to arrest this positive move in the polls?

[trousers]

Dianne Abbot on telly again.

Another terrible interview, demonstrating how awful she would be as a Home Sec

Are you trying to suggest that using a change in hairstyle as an analogy for changing her political views wasn't the wisest of moves, per chance...?

[whelk]

Are you trying to suggest that using a change in hairstyle as an analogy for changing her political views wasn't the wisest of moves, per chance...?

 

I'm struggling tbh why everyone is getting so excitable about the comment. She is saying she was a different person and different times. Some thick people assuming the analogy that you change your view like you change your hairstyle.

[Jonnyboy]

https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2017/01/bbc-daily-distortion/

[Batman]

basically, we are going from a tory landslide to a tory victory of at least 50 MPs

[Jonnyboy]

https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/aw/d/B01LWNDXZ2/ref=mp_s_a_1_10?ie=UTF8&qid=1495921723&sr=8-10&pi=AC_SX236_SY340_QL65&keywords=Celebrity+Cutouts

[Nolan]

I'm struggling tbh why everyone is getting so excitable about the comment. She is saying she was a different person and different times. Some thick people assuming the analogy that you change your view like you change your hairstyle.

She says she has changed her hair cut, but by refusing to even say she regretted her earlier comments, we can't actually presume her views have changed too.

 

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[buctootim]

https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/aw/d/B01LWNDXZ2/ref=mp_s_a_1_10?ie=UTF8&qid=1495921723&sr=8-10&pi=AC_SX236_SY340_QL65&keywords=Celebrity+Cutouts

 

Did you read the product reviews? "Flimsy", "Not very strong and stable" and my favourite "just like the real thing"

[Verbal]

https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2017/01/bbc-daily-distortion/

 

Presumably you defend the contents of this. So in what way is it 'extreme Zionism' to defend Israel's right to exist or to say that one is 'pro-Israel'?

[Jonnyboy]

Tories met with IRA in the seventies during the peak of the murders:

https://tompride.wordpress.com/2017/05/27/shocking-revelation-tories-secretly-met-ira-leaders-7-years-before-corbyn-even-visited-belfast/

[Batman]

Tories met with IRA in the seventies during the peak of the murders:

https://tompride.wordpress.com/2017/05/27/shocking-revelation-tories-secretly-met-ira-leaders-7-years-before-corbyn-even-visited-belfast/

 

I wonder if that was to celebrate some bombings..or those carrying out the bombings and reaffirmed their desire to a british defeat?

[Jonnyboy]

I wonder if that was to celebrate some bombings..or those carrying out the bombings and reaffirmed their desire to a british defeat?

 

It's quite possible, they lie about everything else.

[Nolan]

Seeing as Douglas Hurd was the home secretary responsible for the broadcast ban on the IRA and Sinn Fein we can guarantee his views changed even though his hair style didn't.

 

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[Lord Duckhunter]

What lefties don't seem to grasp is that Corbyn lied. I thought he was a different sort of politician, I thought he was supposed to be Honest Jez. When put under pressure by Andrew Neil he said "I never met the IRA". This is when people tend to lie, when they're under pressure. Whether Douglas Hurd, Maggie Thatcher, The Queen or Eddie Large met the IRA is irrelevant. Corbyn met them and now lies about it. Very Trump like behaviour, saying something blatantly untrue hoping it will go away.

 

 

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[badgerx16]

What lefties don't seem to grasp is that Corbyn lied. I thought he was a different sort of politician, I thought he was supposed to be Honest Jez. When put under pressure by Andrew Neil he said "I never met the IRA". This is when people tend to lie, when they're under pressure. Whether Douglas Hurd, Maggie Thatcher, The Queen or Eddie Large met the IRA is irrelevant. Corbyn met them and now lies about it. Very Trump like behaviour, saying something blatantly untrue hoping it will go away.

 

 

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Trump got elected

[Batman]

god, there is another video from a few years ago doing the rounds of McDonnell praising people for 'kicking the **** out of Millbank' during the riots in 2011 and urges them to continue

 

[trousers]

god, there is another video from a few years ago doing the rounds of McDonnell praising people for 'kicking the **** out of Millbank' during the riots in 2011 and urges them to continue

 

What was his hairstyle like back in 2011?

Edited 29 May, 2017 by trousers

[eurosaint]

What was his hairstyle like back in 2011?

 

Skinhead ??

[whelk]

Spontaneous tweeting

[Nolan]

Spontaneous tweeting

I got that email. Didn't read it as people telling me what to tweet., just to use the hash tag.

 

(and many thanks for proving the non partisanship of order order. They tweet political cock ups, is just that Labour seem to make so much more)

[Patrick Bateman]

Spontaneous tweeting

 

I got that email too.

[whelk]

Just watch the Tory political Broadcast '11 days...' FFS they take us for fools. Just repeat repeat repeat they are idiots and it will sink in

[Batman]

Just watch the Tory political Broadcast '11 days...' FFS they take us for fools. Just repeat repeat repeat they are idiots and it will sink in

 

are you saying no one else repeats the same crap in an election?

[whelk]

are you saying no one else repeats the same crap in an election?

 

I was actually referring to politics in general.

[Manuel]

Just watch the Tory political Broadcast '11 days...' FFS they take us for fools. Just repeat repeat repeat they are idiots and it will sink in

It's the same in the House of Commons. May answers no questions at QT, just repeats the same mantra over and over. It will be the same in this 'debate' tonight.

 

The Andrew Neil interviews are probably the only ones worth watching.

[Batman]

I was actually referring to politics in general.

 

Just put sky news on. They are filming Corbyn's car/van turning up at the studio. Birds eye view.

 

Reminds of Cup Final day when I was a kid

 

 

[shurlock]

I got that email. Didn't read it as people telling me what to tweet., just to use the hash tag.

 

(and many thanks for proving the non partisanship of order order. They tweet political cock ups, is just that Labour seem to make so much more)

 

Of course, it is little fella.

[CB Fry]

Corbyn so far tonight: officially not sh it. Doing okay.