General election? June 8th?

[Nolan]

"What a total plonker said about Brexit didnt come true therefore Brexit is great". I think I can see a logic gap.

Which religion was it that predicted the rapture in the 1920s, 1940s, 1970s and have now just resorted to saying 'soon'?

 

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[buctootim]

Which religion was it that predicted the rapture in the 1920s, 1940s, 1970s and have now just resorted to saying 'soon'?

 

The Tories?

Edited 28 April, 2017 by buctootim

[shurlock]

GDP figures out

 

US 0.2%

France 0.3%

Uk 0.3%

 

Still keeping pace or ahead of other major economies despite Brexit.

 

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UK growth has slowed to its weakest pace in a year and undershot market expectations. All this despite where sterling is. Brilliant news.

Edited 28 April, 2017 by shurlock

[Nolan]

Same as the same quarter last year. And seeing as the pound is trading very slightly better against the dollar. The markets certainly don't take it as a surprise.

 

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[buctootim]

Same as the same quarter last year. And seeing as the pound is trading very slightly better against the dollar. The markets certainly don't take it as a surprise

 

The pound is well down against the Euro and only marginally up against a country which is under threat of nuclear war. Go us.

Edited 28 April, 2017 by buctootim

[Shroppie]

The pound is well down against the Euro and only marginally up against a country which is under threat of nuclear war. Go us.

And the reality of what Brexit will mean once the EU start playing hardball has yet to bite.

 

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[Nolan]

Well down against the euro? It's gone up from 1.17 to 1.183 in the last couple of days. One month ago it was 1.15. It's been at 1.10 in the last year.

 

 

 

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[Batman]

let me guess, both of you voted remain and certainly not for the Tory's in the last election and wont be this time?

 

 

hard times

[shurlock]

Well down against the euro? It's gone up from 1.17 to 1.183 in the last couple of days. One month ago it was 1.15. It's been at 1.10 in the last year.

 

 

 

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That's right the market is betting on a softer brexit as a result of the snap election.

[Nolan]

That's right the market is betting on a softer brexit as a result of the snap election.

Lol

 

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[buctootim]

Well down against the euro? It's gone up from 1.17 to 1.183 in the last couple of days. One month ago it was 1.15. It's been at 1.10 in the last year.

 

Disingenuous again. It was 1.30562 the day before the referendum. Its now 1.18340 and down 0.3% today on GDP figures.

[shurlock]

let me guess, both of you voted remain and certainly not for the Tory's in the last election and wont be this time?

 

 

hard times

 

Nope reading the economic commentary from professionals who view the news much more as a glass half-empty. Time will tell.

[Nolan]

Nope reading the economic commentary from professionals who view the news much more as a glass half-empty. Time will tell.

They've proven themselves fanatically accurate recently. Definitely worth listening to.

 

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[shurlock]

Lol

 

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Alas that's how sterling's recent rally has been interpreted. Silly isn't it.

Edited 28 April, 2017 by shurlock

[shurlock]

They've proven themselves fanatically accurate recently. Definitely worth listening to.

 

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You mean politicians like Osborne.

[Batman]

You mean politicians like Osborne.

 

he shot his load during the EU referendum.

No wonder he is walking away. Best for all probably

[shurlock]

he shot his load during the EU referendum.

No wonder he is walking away. Best for all probably

 

He f**ked up and is still cashing in. Lucky for some.

[Nolan]

Disingenuous again. It was 1.30562 the day before the referendum. Its now 1.18340 and down 0.3% today on GDP figures.

And in 2009 during labours crash it was 1.05

 

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[aintforever]

The pound is well down against the Euro and only marginally up against a country which is under threat of nuclear war. Go us.

 

nuclear war LOL

[Seaford Saint]

Feel free to plant some money trees. Corbyn would scare off the rich and there would be no wealth to redistribute.

 

More and more people end up on the minimum wage as companies have to concentrate all wage increases on those on minimum wage, and I'd hate to think of the price increases in supermarkets that would be passed on if they had to pay 10 quid an hour.

 

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Are you saying that the way things are, namely all I have mentioned in my post above is the only path for us? We can't change anything and Tories have got everything right? Haven't the Tories just doubled the national debt using money trees (your terminology)?

[Nolan]

Are you saying that the way things are, namely all I have mentioned in my post above is the only path for us? We can't change anything and Tories have got everything right? Haven't the Tories just doubled the national debt using money trees (your terminology)?

When labour bailed out the banks they borrowed one heck of a lot of money.

 

Tax receipts do not keep up with expenditure, especially with the cost of interest on the debt.

 

The point of "austerity" under 5 years of a coalition government, and two years of the Tories was to reduce the outgoings to get income and expenditure near the the same. This is "reducing the defecit".

 

The target that labour have constantly been attacking the Conservatives for missing, is the time that income and expenditure will be equal.

 

Strangely at the same time labour are arguing that the conservatives should be partaking in massive spending. Massively over what money comes In.

 

So while, yes, debt has been massive., the conservatives have been slowing the speed that debt has been going up. Labours policy is to make the debt go up even faster again by borrowing more.

 

As interest rates are at a record low that means the cost of our debt will also go up when interest rates increase again.

 

 

 

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[Jonnyboy]

When labour bailed out the banks they borrowed one heck of a lot of money.

 

Tax receipts do not keep up with expenditure, especially with the cost of interest on the debt.

 

The point of "austerity" under 5 years of a coalition government, and two years of the Tories was to reduce the outgoings to get income and expenditure near the the same. This is "reducing the defecit".

 

The target that labour have constantly been attacking the Conservatives for missing, is the time that income and expenditure will be equal.

 

Strangely at the same time labour are arguing that the conservatives should be partaking in massive spending. Massively over what money comes In.

 

So while, yes, debt has been massive., the conservatives have been slowing the speed that debt has been going up. Labours policy is to make the debt go up even faster again by borrowing more.

 

As interest rates are at a record low that means the cost of our debt will also go up when interest rates increase again.

 

 

 

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So in another 30 years or so the deficit might be below zero. How about a bit of growth above 0.3%?

 

Of course the bloated fat elephant (not trees) in the room is the trillions in tax havens around the globe. Enough to remove the national debt of all nations I'd imagine. But that wouldn't do now would it.

 

http://www.taxjustice.net/topics/more/size-of-the-problem/

[Verbal]

Whatever else this election is, it's certainly through-the-looking-glass weird.

 

May has gone to the country just before the CPS announces criminal prosecutions against up to 30 Tory MPs and their agents for electoral fraud - a scale of corruption so large that it might easily have denied the Tories a governing majority in 2015 (and all that followed)...

 

Large numbers of Labour MPs are campaigning on the grounds that it's safe to vote for them because their leader is so epically useless that he's completely unlikely ever to be PM...

 

And all of it framed by a Brexit now being openly talked about in the whackier wings of the civil service (i.e. some higher-ups in the Brexit departments) as "Empire 2.0".

 

An outbreak sanity would be nice.

[John B]

Vote Labour on 8 June ........ it's the only way to stop the Tories vile policies, and mad Brexit negotiation stance.

[Nolan]

Vote Labour on 8 June ........ it's the only way to stop the Tories vile policies, and mad Brexit negotiation stance.

Which vile policies would these be?

[Nolan]

 

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[Jonnyboy]

Which vile policies would these be?

 

If you have to ask you'll never accept the truth anyway, unfortunately.

[Nolan]

If you have to ask you'll never accept the truth anyway, unfortunately.

The truth is, as someone who has always worked and earns an average income under labour I had the choice of becoming a homeowner or paying into a pension. But while I was doing this I saw people who didn't work and lived on benefits live a better and more luxurious life than me.

 

Only when the conservatives returned to power did we see the balance change.

 

There is no way in hell, as someone earning 22,500 a year, will I willingly let the economically illiterate politicians known as labour back in power.

 

Anyone who pays income tax or NI should be extremely fearful of labour.

 

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[shurlock]

The truth is, as someone who has always worked and earns an average income under labour I had the choice of becoming a homeowner or paying into a pension. But while I was doing this I saw people who didn't work and lived on benefits live a better and more luxurious life than me.

 

Only when the conservatives returned to power did we see the balance change.

 

There is no way in hell, as someone earning 22,500 a year, will I willingly let the economically illiterate politicians known as labour back in power.

 

Anyone who pays income tax or NI should be extremely fearful of labour.

 

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I know it's a real achievement that among advanced economies, only Greece has had lower real wage growth than the UK since 2008.

[Nolan]

I know it's a real achievement that among advanced economies, only Greece has had lower real wage growth than the UK since 2008.

Ah the 'real' statistics based on imaginary inflation figures.

 

I worry about the actual figure like lowest unemployment rates, so a lesser burden on taxpayers for benefits. I worry about the actual figure like the highest employment rates, so better receipts for the tax office. I worry about the reduction of the defecit, so lesser payments on interest and more for the hospitals.

 

Labour released a 20 point plan yesterday. All it said essentially, was give men mccluskey more power x 20.

 

No thank you.

 

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[John B]

The truth is, as someone who has always worked and earns an average income under labour I had the choice of becoming a homeowner or paying into a pension. But while I was doing this I saw people who didn't work and lived on benefits live a better and more luxurious life than me.

 

 

This one of the ridiculous posts I have ever seen there is no evidence to support your assertion in any way you are talking complete bollix

 

Ed Balls the previous shadow chancellor is a fine economist unlike George Osborne whose austerity programme has wrecked the economy and led to Brexit

 

George while at Oxford, Osborne was a member of the Bullingdon Club and during his six years at Number 11, he trashed the economy as thoroughly as the Bullingdon boys trashed their restaurants.

 

Osborne used evidence the way a drunk uses lampposts – not for illumination, merely to support him in his excesses

Under him, Britain has endured its weakest recovery in well over 200 years. The average worker is still worse off than they were before the banks collapsed in 2008. The chancellor, who promised a march of the makers, has presided over the collapse of our steel industry. The enemy of government borrowing has bequeathed to the nation a public debt burden almost three times what it was when he was ejected from office.

 

The arch defender of our credit rating has seen Britain lose its AAA status. And now he leaves the country staring into what David Blanchflower – the former Bank of England rate-setter who predicted the last crash – now warns could be “a crisis bigger than Lehman Brothers: a political and economic disaster”.

 

Osborne’s fiscal rules have been either broken or discarded, and where their replacement should be is instead a complete vacuum. The man praised for his “strategic grip” by his former permanent secretary admitted last month that he hadn’t bothered coming up with a post-Brexit strategy. Britain is adrift in what could be the choppiest waters in decades without a fiscal policy, a paddle – or even a map.

 

None of this is accidental. All of it could have been foreseen – indeed, was foreseen by some of us. But it is the direct result of a s******ing callousness that punished the poor while rewarding the rich, that promised greater power for the provinces while shunting ever more money to central London, that bilked the young of their futures while bribing their grandparents all the way to the ballot box.

 

How somebody like you thinks the Tories are great makes me feel sad no doubt formed by the outrageous right wing press who lie and lie and exaggerate hugely .

 

In my lifetime it is only Labour Governments who have truly brought in change for the good of most people

 

With the introduction of the Welfare State and the NHS and the massive house building of the 1940s

 

Under Harold Wilson there was the end of the death penalty the end of the persecution of gay and lesbian people the introduction of equality for women and ethnic minorities and the closing of devisive Grammar Schools.

 

Under Blair there was the start of the minimum wage the introduction of Sure Start Centres to help the developement of young children plus the proper funding of the NHS to reduce waiting lists and the Education System to allow more people to goto University and so improve there life chances.

 

As a past Labour Party member I know that most Labour Candidates for MP are intelligent well educated men and women who have a social conscience.

 

I am no longer a Labour Party member because I got frustrated with people like you who vote on perceptions rather than facts.

 

You would certainly been better off under a Labour Government since 2010 because with money so cheap there would have been more investment in infrastructure because of Brexit you will be worse off again

 

Have an open mind listen to what Corbyn says he may not look like a PM but it is very difficult to argue against what he says and today he got a standing ovation at the Headmaster's Conference regarding funding and the introduction of Academies and Grammar Schools.

 

But if you think you will have a better life under the Tories please let me know and perhaps we can have a discussion on it.

 

Dont believe all you read in the Tabloids most of the people who live on benefit live a horrible life dont care a toss about politics and like loads of immigrants dont vote

[Shroppie]

This one of the ridiculous posts I have ever seen there is no evidence to support your assertion in any way you are talking complete bollix

 

Ed Balls the previous shadow chancellor is a fine economist unlike George Osborne whose austerity programme has wrecked the economy and led to Brexit

 

George while at Oxford, Osborne was a member of the Bullingdon Club and during his six years at Number 11, he trashed the economy as thoroughly as the Bullingdon boys trashed their restaurants.

 

Osborne used evidence the way a drunk uses lampposts – not for illumination, merely to support him in his excesses

Under him, Britain has endured its weakest recovery in well over 200 years. The average worker is still worse off than they were before the banks collapsed in 2008. The chancellor, who promised a march of the makers, has presided over the collapse of our steel industry. The enemy of government borrowing has bequeathed to the nation a public debt burden almost three times what it was when he was ejected from office.

 

The arch defender of our credit rating has seen Britain lose its AAA status. And now he leaves the country staring into what David Blanchflower – the former Bank of England rate-setter who predicted the last crash – now warns could be “a crisis bigger than Lehman Brothers: a political and economic disaster”.

 

Osborne’s fiscal rules have been either broken or discarded, and where their replacement should be is instead a complete vacuum. The man praised for his “strategic grip” by his former permanent secretary admitted last month that he hadn’t bothered coming up with a post-Brexit strategy. Britain is adrift in what could be the choppiest waters in decades without a fiscal policy, a paddle – or even a map.

 

None of this is accidental. All of it could have been foreseen – indeed, was foreseen by some of us. But it is the direct result of a s******ing callousness that punished the poor while rewarding the rich, that promised greater power for the provinces while shunting ever more money to central London, that bilked the young of their futures while bribing their grandparents all the way to the ballot box.

 

How somebody like you thinks the Tories are great makes me feel sad no doubt formed by the outrageous right wing press who lie and lie and exaggerate hugely .

 

In my lifetime it is only Labour Governments who have truly brought in change for the good of most people

 

With the introduction of the Welfare State and the NHS and the massive house building of the 1940s

 

Under Harold Wilson there was the end of the death penalty the end of the persecution of gay and lesbian people the introduction of equality for women and ethnic minorities and the closing of devisive Grammar Schools.

 

Under Blair there was the start of the minimum wage the introduction of Sure Start Centres to help the developement of young children plus the proper funding of the NHS to reduce waiting lists and the Education System to allow more people to goto University and so improve there life chances.

 

As a past Labour Party member I know that most Labour Candidates for MP are intelligent well educated men and women who have a social conscience.

 

I am no longer a Labour Party member because I got frustrated with people like you who vote on perceptions rather than facts.

 

You would certainly been better off under a Labour Government since 2010 because with money so cheap there would have been more investment in infrastructure because of Brexit you will be worse off again

 

Have an open mind listen to what Corbyn says he may not look like a PM but it is very difficult to argue against what he says and today he got a standing ovation at the Headmaster's Conference regarding funding and the introduction of Academies and Grammar Schools.

 

But if you think you will have a better life under the Tories please let me know and perhaps we can have a discussion on it.

 

Dont believe all you read in the Tabloids most of the people who live on benefit live a horrible life dont care a toss about politics and like loads of immigrants dont vote

Excellent post.

 

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[Nolan]

I don't read tabloids to educate my political views. I read conservative home, labourlist.org, spectator and the new statesman. I watch the daily politics, Marr, Peston and Ridge.

 

I also read the mail out of interest for the loony right spin and the Guardian and the independent for the loony left spin.

 

I also read hansard for the debates I am interested in.

 

My opinion stands

 

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Edited 1 May, 2017 by Nolan

[shurlock]

I don't read tabloids to educate my political views. I read conservative home, labourlist.org, spectator and the new statesman. I watch the daily politics, Marr, Peston and Ridge.

 

I also read the mail out of interest for the loony right spin and the Guardian and the independent for the loony left spin.

 

I also read hansard for the debates I am interested in.

 

My opinion stands

 

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk

 

And I got the impression you only read things on the side of a bus.

[aintforever]

The truth is, as someone who has always worked and earns an average income under labour I had the choice of becoming a homeowner or paying into a pension. But while I was doing this I saw people who didn't work and lived on benefits live a better and more luxurious life than me.

 

Only when the conservatives returned to power did we see the balance change.

 

There is no way in hell, as someone earning 22,500 a year, will I willingly let the economically illiterate politicians known as labour back in power.

 

Anyone who pays income tax or NI should be extremely fearful of labour.

 

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk

 

I don't get this obsession with people on benefits, from what I can see they generally live a pretty miserable existence - I just feel sorry for them. People who cheat the system I despise but that applies to wealthy tax avoiders as muck as benefit fraudsters.

 

You moan about paying tax but fact is any one of us might at some point end up needing a the same safety net. I agree that Labour got the balance a bit wrong but I prefer that to the uncaring approach of the Tories.

[buctootim]

I don't get this obsession with people on benefits, from what I can see they generally live a pretty miserable existence - I just feel sorry for them. People who cheat the system I despise but that applies to wealthy tax avoiders as muck as benefit fraudsters.

 

You moan about paying tax but fact is any one of us might at some point end up needing a the same safety net. I agree that Labour got the balance a bit wrong but I prefer that to the uncaring approach of the Tories.

 

The other thing is those same people obsessed with everybody else getting a free ride on the back off their hard work are often retired, on a pension and frequent users of the NHS. They cost the state far more than unemployment related benefits.

[Nolan]

I don't get this obsession with people on benefits, from what I can see they generally live a pretty miserable existence - I just feel sorry for them. People who cheat the system I despise but that applies to wealthy tax avoiders as muck as benefit fraudsters.

 

You moan about paying tax but fact is any one of us might at some point end up needing a the same safety net. I agree that Labour got the balance a bit wrong but I prefer that to the uncaring approach of the Tories.

 

Nothing wrong with paying taxes. I pay every bit I should (don't even use the dodgy buy Xbox games from the US region to avoid UK taxes as too meant people do)

 

Labour got it very wrong. The fact that the people in charge now are supported by socialists and communists really shows that's unlikely to change.

 

But there should never Ever be case where people on benefits could get paid more than the average wage without recourse.

 

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Edited 1 May, 2017 by Nolan

[Nolan]

https://order-order.com/2017/05/01/mcdonnell-addresses-stalinists-communist-flag/

 

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[Lord Duckhunter]

Nothing wrong with paying taxes. I pay every bit I should (don't even use the dodgy buy Xbox games from the US region to avoid UK taxes as too meant people do)

 

Labour got it very wrong. The fact that the people in charge now are supported by socialists and communists really shows that's unlikely to change.

 

But there should never Ever be case where people on benefits could get paid more than the average wage without recourse.

 

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I'm with you mate. Taxes are way too high & need to come down. Modern politicians seem incapable of understanding that lower tax can lead to higher tax take. They're obsessed with rates rather than tax take. Who gives a **** if the rich only pay 40% if it brings in more money.

 

As for welfare the problem is that it's spread too thinly. The deserving poor don't get enough money because the pot is too small. The pot is too small, not because there's not enough money in it, but because too many people are taking out of it.

 

 

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[whelk]

I'm with you mate. Taxes are way too high & need to come down. Modern politicians seem incapable of understanding that lower tax can lead to higher tax take. They're obsessed with rates rather than tax take. Who gives a **** if the rich only pay 40% if it brings in more money.

 

As for welfare the problem is that it's spread too thinly. The deserving poor don't get enough money because the pot is too small. The pot is too small, not because there's not enough money in it, but because too many people are taking out of it.

 

 

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Yeah like if you reduce Bill Gates' tax bill he'll like buy a further 50,000 pairs of jeans a year and all that money trickles down and the economy thrives. If only modern politicians listened to economists eh.

[Nolan]

When thatcher reduced income tax from 33% to 20% total tax receipts rocketed.

 

When Cameron reduced the top rate of tax from 50% to 45% tax reciepts went up.

 

With the reduction of corporation tax, we have just had record tax reciepts.

 

 

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[whelk]

When thatcher reduced income tax from 33% to 20% total tax receipts rocketed.

 

When Cameron reduced the top rate of tax from 50% to 45% tax reciepts went up.

 

With the reduction of corporation tax, we have just had record tax reciepts.

 

 

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Surprised this thing you stumbled upon isn't common knowledge, Why stop at 20%? Let's get it down to 5% and then we'll all buy so much stuff and all be thriving. Don't dare close the public lavs though.

[Nolan]

Go and read up on the Laffer Curve.

 

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[whelk]

Yeah clearly there is merit in having an equitable tax rate but you and your pal LD take such principles to spout that less tax mean more revenue. I did study economics.

 

Remember to tell Hammond and May when they raise your income tax rate after the election that they need to look up the Laffer curve and they don't need to do it.

[Nolan]

Yeah clearly there is merit in having an equitable tax rate but you and your pal LD take such principles to spout that less tax mean more revenue. I did study economics.

 

Remember to tell Hammond and May when they raise your income tax rate after the election that they need to look up the Laffer curve and they don't need to do it.

Then you'll understand that Conservative ideology is low tax, small government compared with Labours high tax, large Government.

 

Or that's what we know of Labour, who knows when the shape Chancellor makes speeches under the Communist and Assad regimes flags.

 

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[aintforever]

When thatcher reduced income tax from 33% to 20% total tax receipts rocketed.

 

When Cameron reduced the top rate of tax from 50% to 45% tax reciepts went up.

 

With the reduction of corporation tax, we have just had record tax reciepts.

 

 

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That's what the stats show because politicians can lower the tax rate when the economy is going well. I understand the Laffer Curve theory but think there can still be more money paid in by the higher earners.

 

From what I can see this austerity has only really effected the lower incomes - me and my other half are both above average earners and the last few years of 'austerity' has been a piece of ****. Low inflation plus low interest rates means if you are lucky enough to have a decent job and own you own home you have more than enough disposable income while many are struggling, services are being run down and people carrying out the important work (carers, nurses etc) have had a real decrease in wages.

 

I actually tend to side more with the Tories stance over benefit fraud and getting people out of the unemployment trap but can never support how they treat the most vulnerable of society and figures on a spreadsheet. I would much rather have a bit of wastage and actually care for those that need it.

Edited 2 May, 2017 by aintforever

[Nolan]

The conservatives need to ask lbc if this can be used as a party political broadcast.

 

https://order-order.com/2017/05/02/diane-abbott-police-numbers-car-crash/

 

 

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[trousers]

The conservatives need to ask lbc if this can be used as a party political broadcast.

 

https://order-order.com/2017/05/02/diane-abbott-police-numbers-car-crash/

 

 

I almost feel sorry for Diane Abbott listening to that. Almost...

[shurlock]

Go and read up on the Laffer Curve.

 

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The Laffer Curve -junk economics at its finest. You'll be telling me that Santa Claus exists next.

 

Pal you need stop reading order-order and the other ill-informed **** that's rotting your brain it seems.

[Nolan]

You can't fake videos or radio recordings though..

 

Looking forward to see The Abbott on daily politics later.

 

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