Puel vs Koeman

[Dark Munster]

Koeman is clearly the better manager

 

Pochettino is better than both of them

 

Puel is on par with Adkins at best IMO as far as English football is concerned

You mean "clearly" to you and the rest of the Puel-out mob. For the rest of us they are both good managers, and it's impossible to compare both records this season due to the extremely different circumstances. I won't bother repeating the shitty hand Puel has been dealt this season, it's like trying to explain the bleeding obvious to Trump supporters.

[Heisenberg]

Puel has been dealt a tough hand. Losing his only goal scorer in December in Austin

 

Shane long scored 17 last season

[Dark Munster]

He's been handed a hospital pass from the board. A top ten finish & a cup final without VvD for half a season, Mane, Pelle, Fonte & big vic is every bit as good as 6th & humiliation in the very same cup was with them. Of course we've got ****ing idiot supporters who think it's like Football Manager, typified by the morons who booed protecting the striker from further injury, and seem to think we've a god given right to get better & better each season. From the cards he's been dealt he's played a pretty decent hand

And no decent striker for most of the season. It's hopeless trying to explain all of this to the Puel-out mob, who are out in force today after our nice run was ended by a full-strength quality team, and with our only decent striker half-fit, our best DM suspended, and our best defender still out.

[Dark Munster]

Shane long scored 17 last season

Alongside Mane.

[Batman]

Alongside Mane.

 

make it sound like Mane was as good as Messi. Makes the £30-odd million look like very poor business indeed

[Lighthouse]

Alongside Mane.

 

It was only 13 anyway, 10 in the League.

[doddisalegend]

Shane long scored 17 last season

 

Ha ha ha I like how you've include all his international goals in that list excellent trolling as usual

 

http://www.soccerbase.com/players/player.sd?player_id=41355&season_id=145

[Heisenberg]

Ha ha ha I like how you've include all his international goals in that list excellent trolling as usual

 

http://www.soccerbase.com/players/player.sd?player_id=41355&season_id=145

 

The constant excuse made for Puel is that he has no goal scorers and its almost a miracle that we are joint with Watford.

 

Long scored 17 last season. Jay scored 18 last season he was fit. He does have goal scorers he just hasn't got the best from any of them.

[Batman]

The constant excuse made for Puel is that he has no goal scorers and its almost a miracle that we are joint with Watford.

 

Long scored 17 last season. Jay scored 18 last season he was fit. He does have goal scorers he just hasn't got the best from any of them.

 

you have to wonder why he cant get a tune out of the next eden hazard too

[Dark Munster]

make it sound like Mane was as good as Messi. Makes the £30-odd million look like very poor business indeed

It was a poor piece of business.

[Dark Munster]

The constant excuse made for Puel is that he has no goal scorers and its almost a miracle that we are joint with Watford.

 

Long scored 17 last season. Jay scored 18 last season he was fit. He does have goal scorers he just hasn't got the best from any of them.

10 in the league, alongside Mane. How many did he average before that (without Mane)?

[simo]

As much as I liked my trip to Prague that wouldn't have happened without the ginger guy , If it was a choice of a few games in Europe or a domestic cup final I'd take the final every time ! Make of that what you will !

[Heisenberg]

make it sound like Mane was as good as Messi. Makes the £30-odd million look like very poor business indeed

 

According to the latest finances we receive about 70-75% of the reported transfer totals (after agents, player and previous clubs are paid) so we potentially received about 20-22m for Mane (+all Long's ability according to a few) yet Reed was praised.....

[doddisalegend]

The constant excuse made for Puel is that he has no goal scorers and its almost a miracle that we are joint with Watford.

 

Long scored 17 last season. Jay scored 18 last season he was fit. He does have goal scorers he just hasn't got the best from any of them.

 

what the hell has the goals Shane Long scored for Ireland got to do with anything other than supporting another of your spurious arguments

 

and as for Jrod....

 

[James]

In my mind Koeman is the better of the two managers. However, he wouldn't sign a new contract and we had to get rid. I like Puel and I am interested to see what he can do with a full team next year. I fear that he will be totally undermined by another summer of sales and inadequate recruitment but that's another matter. I haven't been totally convinced by his tactics this season as we have played some pretty horrible stuff even with VVD and our top scorer Austin so don't see him as the 'world class manager' that many of the clappers do.

 

I think he's a decent fit for us but I do slightly worry about squad morale as there have been rumblings of bust ups all season and Long's reaction on Saturday wasn't pretty at all.

[Lord Duckhunter]

Koeman was a perfect fit at the time. We'd lost a lot of players and our credibility was on the line. Koeman was a big name and he was also pretty pragmatic about losing top players because he wasn't in as strong a position as he is now. There's no way he was considered a top manager and the jury was out on his managerial career. However, that doesn't mean he would have been a good fit now. As a club we need to develop youngsters and , as corny as it sounds, have a "pathway" to the first team. In that respect Puel is perfect for us. Add in the fact that Koeman clearly wanted out, I believe that Puel has had a better season than Koeman would have done.

 

If I was an Everton supporter I'd want Koeman, but I'm not. In the right here, right now Puel is a better fit for our club.

 

And as for players like Tadic JRod & Long throwing their toys out of the pram, they can **** off as far as I'm concerned. It's not Puels fault JRod & Long don't appear to know where the goal is, or his fault that Tadic plays well 40% of the time, whilst spending the rest mincing about. JWP, McQueen, Stephens, Sims are the future of the club and they've improved a lot under Claude. Certainly better than they would of under Koeman

 

 

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[OldNick]

We played TWO more games in Europe than the year before..

Chelsea/Liverpool? Not sure what the argument is about them other than we keep strengthening Liverpool.

Mane? Apparently he is the only player who has left a club...FFS he isn't Messi he left the same as all the others but one player leaving isn't the end of the world?

it wasn't one player though was it

[trousers]

We played TWO more games in Europe than the year before.

 

Yes, we played 4 Europa Cup last season. Two of which were played before the domestic season started and the other two in August (the least congested month in the domestic calendar).

 

This season we played our six Europa Cup games between September and December, in parallel with a full league programme and a run to the League Cup final.

 

Keep comparing apples with oranges though...

 

[Saint-Fred]

Yes, we played 4 Europa Cup last season. Two of which were played before the domestic season started and the other two in August (the least congested month in the domestic calendar).

 

This season we played our six Europa Cup games between September and December, in parallel with a full league programme and a run to the League Cup final.

 

Keep comparing apples with oranges though...

 

 

Lol we will have to agree to disagree..you like Clueless Puel and will look for any excuse, I think he is OK but only that (which might be as good as we can expect for a club our size etc etc)

[CB Fry]

Lol we will have to agree to disagree..you like Clueless Puel and will look for any excuse, I think he is OK but only that (which might be as good as we can expect for a club our size etc etc)

Any excuse like

 

- Pretending people on this forum "are trying to make him out as the saviour of the world"

 

- Pretending we only lost one player last summer and making dopey comparisons to Messi

 

- Failing to grasp that Euro qualifiers against minnows in pre-season time are not remotely comparable to the slog of Thursday-Sunday through the autumn.

 

But yeah, people use, like, any excuse don't dey dough?

[trousers]

Lol we will have to agree to disagree..you like Clueless Puel and will look for any excuse, I think he is OK but only that (which might be as good as we can expect for a club our size etc etc)

Nice try. I haven't decided either way yet. I'll make a decision on how good he is after two seasons. It's called being open minded and pragmatic. I can highly recommend it as a character trait...

Edited 18 April, 2017 by trousers

[nta786]

Nice try. I haven't decided either way yet. I'll make a decision on how good he is after two seasons. It's called being open minded and pragmatic. I can highly recommend it as a character trait...

 

Along with daftness as pointed out by Batman

[Dusic]

Puel clearly deserves another season and also for the Club not to leave him hanging in the transfer windown which has happened in both since he has been at the Club.

 

Some nice football this season but not ruthless enough.

 

Worth noting Koeman beat all the top 6 in his two seasons, thats where we have regressed most.

[ALWAYS_SFC]

Puel clearly deserves another season and also for the Club not to leave him hanging in the transfer windown which has happened in both since he has been at the Club.

 

Some nice football this season but not ruthless enough.

 

Worth noting Koeman beat all the top 6 in his two seasons, thats where we have regressed most.

 

The 6 have improved this year too...

[K,Billy's supersound]

Not his biggest fan and the football hasn't all been good but I do agree with Dusic.

He also needs Reed to drop the fantasy idea of fielding a team 50% from the academy and being able to compete/win. Puel could also do with more coaches get rid of Pascal, a cardboard cutout of Pep would offer more. Black is the one the players respect. The biggest thing tho is the club need to stop selling and trying to replace from within on the cheap, give Puel proper transfer funds to bring in who he wants.

[SuperSAINT]

Not his biggest fan and the football hasn't all been good but I do agree with Dusic.

He also needs Reed to drop the fantasy idea of fielding a team 50% from the academy and being able to compete/win. Puel could also do with more coaches get rid of Pascal, a cardboard cutout of Pep would offer more. Black is the one the players respect. The biggest thing tho is the club need to stop selling and trying to replace from within on the cheap, give Puel proper transfer funds to bring in who he wants.

 

Wouldn't we need a new owner for that though? Our way really is to sell high and use the money to replace & bring in other players using those ££'s.

[Batman]

You mean "clearly" to you and the rest of the Puel-out mob. For the rest of us they are both good managers, and it's impossible to compare both records this season due to the extremely different circumstances. I won't bother repeating the shitty hand Puel has been dealt this season, it's like trying to explain the bleeding obvious to Trump supporters.

 

****ty hand? bit like Ron when he joined I guess and had players leaving left/right/centre

[trousers]

Along with daftness as pointed out by Batman

 

You don't have to be daft to post on here, but it helps...

[SKD]

Not his biggest fan and the football hasn't all been good but I do agree with Dusic.

He also needs Reed to drop the fantasy idea of fielding a team 50% from the academy and being able to compete/win. Puel could also do with more coaches get rid of Pascal, a cardboard cutout of Pep would offer more. Black is the one the players respect. The biggest thing tho is the club need to stop selling and trying to replace from within on the cheap, give Puel proper transfer funds to bring in who he wants.

 

Pretty much spot on IMO.

 

Getting to cup final has brought him time, but if the football we've played (for the majority of this season) continues into next then we need to pull the trigger.

 

Not all is down to Puel. Les and the board need to take some of the blame and this summers transfer window is massive.

 

Interesting what you note about Pascal / Black. Do you know if it is likely for us to replace him?

[SuperSAINT]

Interesting what you note about Pascal / Black. Do you know if it is likely for us to replace him?

 

A generic shout from me, but we should ask Thierry Henry to take some sessions.

[GGalpin]

****ty hand? bit like Ron when he joined I guess and had players leaving left/right/centre

 

Could argue that the exodus meant Koeman started with a blank canvas could get in the players he wanted. Apart from Pied, not sure many of the players (particularly upfront) are his picks as only Gabbiadini seems to fit the way he wants Saints to play.

[Lord Duckhunter]

People should listen to The Times Game podcast this week in which Le Parisian's Julien Laurens talks about Puel. He says Saints fans should give him time, says Puel builds teams & builds them whilst having players sold , " it's what he does". Went on to add he's got an incredible will to win & determination , still mixes it with players in training even at 55. Said loads of players rave about him & his methods. Wasn't all positive, said he has a major failing in substituting players too early in game & also doesn't come across particularly well to supporters. Said that he will get it right given time .

 

 

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[Saint-Fred]

People should listen to The Times Game podcast this week in which Le Parisian's Julien Laurens talks about Puel. He says Saints fans should give him time, says Puel builds teams & builds them whilst having players sold , " it's what he does". Went on to add he's got an incredible will to win & determination , still mixes it with players in training even at 55. Said loads of players rave about him & his methods. Wasn't all positive, said he has a major failing in substituting players too early in game & also doesn't come across particularly well to supporters. Said that he will get it right given time .

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

From his cv that seems about right. I have thought from his appointment that he would do alright.

I have no doubt he will do OK. He has always done OK wherever he has been. Never outstanding but always OK.

I think those thinking we have a world class manager are incorrect and those thinking we have a rubbish one are also incorrect.

He is "OK", and for a club our size, It could be that's all we can hope for, if so he is the perfect fit for us.

[Sidney Fudpucker the 3rd]

As others have said, the circumstances are very different. However, given a clean slate and the choice between the two managers I'd go for Koeman every time. I'd be very surprised if anybody opted for Puel over Koeman if presented with a choice between the two.

[Heisenberg]

Puels sides seem to do better once he leaves.

 

Monaco he was 15th in his final season, next season they finished 2nd

 

Lille he ranged between mid table and best 5th, when he left they finished 4th and then won the league

 

Lyon he finished 4th - he leaves and next season they were 3rd

 

Same at Nice. 11th-4th and after he leaves they finish top 3 (tbc) 20points clear of 4th place

[nta786]

Puels sides seem to do better once he leaves.

 

Monaco he was 15th in his final season, next season they finished 2nd

 

Lille he ranged between mid table and best 5th, when he left they finished 4th and then won the league

 

Lyon he finished 4th - he leaves and next season they were 3rd

 

Same at Nice. 11th-4th and after he leaves they finish top 3 (tbc) 20points clear of 4th place

 

can't wait till he leaves then

 

unless he relegates us- then bettering us would be promotion.

[Bearsy]

Puels sides seem to do better once he leaves.

 

Monaco he was 15th in his final season, next season they finished 2nd

 

Lille he ranged between mid table and best 5th, when he left they finished 4th and then won the league

 

Lyon he finished 4th - he leaves and next season they were 3rd

 

Same at Nice. 11th-4th and after he leaves they finish top 3 (tbc) 20points clear of 4th place

 

I fact checked cos Interest, I think you've got the first one wrong. I didn't bother check the others I will take ur word for them.

[Cartman]

As others have said, the circumstances are very different. However, given a clean slate and the choice between the two managers I'd go for Koeman every time. I'd be very surprised if anybody opted for Puel over Koeman if presented with a choice between the two.

 

Didn't want Koeman in the first place, wanted him sacked halfway through last season and couldn't care less when he left. Puel over him every time. Poch over both.

[Bearsy]

Problem with Pochettino is his teams seem to do better after he's left:

 

Espanyol - Sacked at bottom of the table (20th). New manager got them to 13th.

 

Southampton - Finished 8th in his last season, after he left they finished 7th, and then 6th.

[ALWAYS_SFC]

Problem with Pochettino is his teams seem to do better after he's left:

 

Espanyol - Sacked at bottom of the table (20th). New manager got them to 13th.

 

Southampton - Finished 8th in his last season, after he left they finished 7th, and then 6th.

 

Good point..

[SKD]

Good point..

 

No it's not, completely different set of circumstances.

 

When Poch took over as manager at Espanyol, they were 3rd from bottom he guided them to mid table that season, and then again mid table the season after (granted they had a drop in form the following season, which he and others have put down to the financial situation at Espanyol, however given the 2 prior seasons, he clearly improved the team).

 

When he took over Saints we were 3 points above the relegation zone. We comfortably avoided relegation that year and the finished 8th the following season.

 

It's a similar story at Tottenham. He's taken them from Europa league qualifiers at best, to potential champions.

 

The main difference being.... Monaco, Lille and Lyon are expected to finish around the top of Ligue 1. Espanyol, Saints (at the time) and now Tottenham have overachieved with Poch in charge.

[Mikey88]

Puels sides seem to do better once he leaves.

 

Monaco he was 15th in his final season, next season they finished 2nd

 

Lille he ranged between mid table and best 5th, when he left they finished 4th and then won the league

 

Lyon he finished 4th - he leaves and next season they were 3rd

 

Same at Nice. 11th-4th and after he leaves they finish top 3 (tbc) 20points clear of 4th place

 

Not checked any of the above but did he improve these clubs from where he found them when he took over?

[Heisenberg]

Not checked any of the above but did he improve these clubs from where he found them when he took over?

 

Monaco won the title season before he joined.

 

Lille finished 5th season before he joined, his 1st season they finished 15th

 

Lyon had won the title seven years in a row before he joined

 

Nice were mid table

[Ultimatt]

Monaco won the title season before he joined.

 

Lille finished 5th season before he joined, his 1st season they finished 15th

 

Lyon had won the title seven years in a row before he joined

 

Nice were mid table

 

I was a Lyon fan at the time regularly watching their matches so can shed some light. The president Jean Michel Aulas wanted to make a push to take the club to the next level and achieve European success. There's 3 reasons why Lyon regressed:

- They became the 1st French club to float on the stock market. Unfortunately the timing of that coincided with the GFC and the club shed millions.

- The club changed their transfer strategy to bring in expensive foreign signings (Lisandro Lopez was enormous money) and they somewhat flopped. Him and Bafetimbi Gomis just weren't lethal enough (very similar to our biggest issue).

- Their squad was past its peak. Juninho, Govou and others retiring. They'd gone from housing over half the French NT to barely any. Not much youth coming through with their last golden batch all having moved on; Benzema, Ben Arfa etc.

 

Puel did get them to a champions league semi final, their best result ever, so call that a success. But league form fell and the club had to cost-cut and rebuild. Only now are they starting to surge again thanks to another batch of academy prospects.

The similarities between Lyon's model that won them 7 titles and what Southampton is trying to do are strong. It's just that the English league is much stronger.

[redkeith]

I was a Lyon fan at the time regularly watching their matches so can shed some light. The president Jean Michel Aulas wanted to make a push to take the club to the next level and achieve European success. There's 3 reasons why Lyon regressed:

- They became the 1st French club to float on the stock market. Unfortunately the timing of that coincided with the GFC and the club shed millions.

- The club changed their transfer strategy to bring in expensive foreign signings (Lisandro Lopez was enormous money) and they somewhat flopped. Him and Bafetimbi Gomis just weren't lethal enough (very similar to our biggest issue).

- Their squad was past its peak. Juninho, Govou and others retiring. They'd gone from housing over half the French NT to barely any. Not much youth coming through with their last golden batch all having moved on; Benzema, Ben Arfa etc.

 

Puel did get them to a champions league semi final, their best result ever, so call that a success. But league form fell and the club had to cost-cut and rebuild. Only now are they starting to surge again thanks to another batch of academy prospects.

The similarities between Lyon's model that won them 7 titles and what Southampton is trying to do are strong. It's just that the English league is much stronger.

 

Also. their young French No 10 Gourcuff ( a €22m signing from Bordeaux) got a series of injuries that more or less finished him.

[Heisenberg]

^ injuries and strikers form dipping while he's in charge. Puel is just super unlucky

 

Do we want an unlucky manager?

[ALWAYS_SFC]

I was a Lyon fan at the time regularly watching their matches so can shed some light. The president Jean Michel Aulas wanted to make a push to take the club to the next level and achieve European success. There's 3 reasons why Lyon regressed:

- They became the 1st French club to float on the stock market. Unfortunately the timing of that coincided with the GFC and the club shed millions.

- The club changed their transfer strategy to bring in expensive foreign signings (Lisandro Lopez was enormous money) and they somewhat flopped. Him and Bafetimbi Gomis just weren't lethal enough (very similar to our biggest issue).

- Their squad was past its peak. Juninho, Govou and others retiring. They'd gone from housing over half the French NT to barely any. Not much youth coming through with their last golden batch all having moved on; Benzema, Ben Arfa etc.

 

Puel did get them to a champions league semi final, their best result ever, so call that a success. But league form fell and the club had to cost-cut and rebuild. Only now are they starting to surge again thanks to another batch of academy prospects.

The similarities between Lyon's model that won them 7 titles and what Southampton is trying to do are strong. It's just that the English league is much stronger.

 

Amazing how actual background information makes things much clearer and not just trolling..

[Bearsy]

Monaco won the title season before he joined.

 

I am Expert on Monaco because I googled on them yesterday.

 

They finished 3rd the season before Puel joined.

Puel joined halfway through following season, and they ended up 4th.

Next Season Puel won title (they haven't won it since)

Next Season Puel finished 11th, so they let him go at end of season.

Then they appointed Deschamps, and it was him that improved them up to 15th.

[trousers]

Amazing how actual background information makes things much clearer and not just trolling..

 

Mods - how do I report this post? I'm fed up (as no doubt you are too) of people accusing certain posters of trolling when we all know there aren't any trolls on this forum. All these so called "trolls" are doing is expressing an opinion without any thinly veiled agendas or desire to wind people up whatsoever. Thanks.

[SKD]

I was a Lyon fan at the time regularly watching their matches so can shed some light. The president Jean Michel Aulas wanted to make a push to take the club to the next level and achieve European success. There's 3 reasons why Lyon regressed:

- They became the 1st French club to float on the stock market. Unfortunately the timing of that coincided with the GFC and the club shed millions.

- The club changed their transfer strategy to bring in expensive foreign signings (Lisandro Lopez was enormous money) and they somewhat flopped. Him and Bafetimbi Gomis just weren't lethal enough (very similar to our biggest issue).

- Their squad was past its peak. Juninho, Govou and others retiring. They'd gone from housing over half the French NT to barely any. Not much youth coming through with their last golden batch all having moved on; Benzema, Ben Arfa etc.

 

Puel did get them to a champions league semi final, their best result ever, so call that a success. But league form fell and the club had to cost-cut and rebuild. Only now are they starting to surge again thanks to another batch of academy prospects.

The similarities between Lyon's model that won them 7 titles and what Southampton is trying to do are strong. It's just that the English league is much stronger.

 

The only thing I've taken from this is that you used to support Lyon when they were successful. No doubt this coincided with us being in L1 / Championship