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Saints vs Man City - Build Up

Lighthouse

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Red

Red

Posted
Posted

Luckily managed to get tickets for the game - flying in from Ireland so not affordable to do so very often unfortunately, and particularly over the Easter weekend. Don't know how others further afield manage it (like our Dubai friends). Really looking forward to it.

 

...and BTW as I posted on another thread, the big man is going nowhere - at least this summer! Nothing is 100% I know but it would be worse than banana man if he left this summer

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Chez

Chez

Posted
Posted
Luckily managed to get tickets for the game - flying in from Ireland so not affordable to do so very often unfortunately, and particularly over the Easter weekend. Don't know how others further afield manage it (like our Dubai friends). Really looking forward to it.

 

...and BTW as I posted on another thread, the big man is going nowhere - at least this summer! Nothing is 100% I know but it would be worse than banana man if he left this summer

 

nice work. Enjoy the game. Same to you Eddie.

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James

James

Posted
Posted
Journalist just asked Puel about Man U in the europa league tonight, saying 8th will be enough to qualify if united win the trophy. Is this true?

 

I don't think that's right but perhaps one of the resident stattos can confirm.

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Batman

Batman

Posted
Posted

Claude Presser:

 

Shock for football and everyone what happened in Germany

We have good security, for the fans and the player. All people need to take care

The club give confidence on this.....

 

on to the footy........

 

important to keep good ambition for end of the season

we were 10th a few games ago, now we are 9th. It can change quickly

Man City are a good team and it will be a good challenge

we will try to win and keep our ambition going

they have a great manager and great players

but we will keep our ambition

we must take our chances and we will see

we are at home and we will go to win

it will be interesting to go against a great manager like pep

we have faced each other in the champions league also

I played against him when we were players

he built a fantastic team with Barcelona, it was fantastic to see

their recovery of the ball was very good. Pep changed football

I have a lot of respect for him

He has philosophy I like, his football demands quality

he requires technical, intelligent players and he wins

hopefully, not this weekend.

Gabbiadini and Davis will be back in the squad this weekend

we need to wait for charlie, he is training again but he has been out so long, he will need a little more time. Will get time with U23's

It is our objective to finish high as possible and we will play with focus and ambition

I want the players to continue to improve and make progress

we expect to finish top half and prepare well for next season

we will mature a little bit more

I will be supporting Man united in Europe because I want English teams to succeed. NOT because if they win the Europa League, 8th could mean Europe.

all can change very quickly, so we can only worry about ourselves

we will see where we finish

I would make the same decisions on rotation if we get into Europe again, it was important as we played every 3 days in the first part of the season

at the same time, we tried to develop players into the system and we had injuries.

It was not possible to keep the intensity if we did not rotate like we did, it was to recover after the game

the young players were involved and with the injuries we have now, the young players who came in earlier in the season are doing well

I was pleased with Clasie and Hojberg. They have not played much lately and their response on the pitch last week was good.

They had a good attitude all the time and came in well

Gabbiadini is physically fit, we will see if he can start or maybe start 2nd half of the game

 

 

there you go

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Chris27687

Chris27687

Posted
Posted
Claude Presser:

 

Shock for football and everyone what happened in Germany

We have good security, for the fans and the player. All people need to take care

The club give confidence on this.....

 

on to the footy........

 

important to keep good ambition for end of the season

we were 10th a few games ago, now we are 9th. It can change quickly

Man City are a good team and it will be a good challenge

we will try to win and keep our ambition going

they have a great manager and great players

but we will keep our ambition

we must take our chances and we will see

we are at home and we will go to win

it will be interesting to go against a great manager like pep

we have faced each other in the champions league also

I played against him when we were players

he built a fantastic team with Barcelona, it was fantastic to see

their recovery of the ball was very good. Pep changed football

I have a lot of respect for him

He has philosophy I like, his football demands quality

he requires technical, intelligent players and he wins

hopefully, not this weekend.

Gabbiadini and Davis will be back in the squad this weekend

we need to wait for charlie, he is training again but he has been out so long, he will need a little more time. Will get time with U23's

It is our objective to finish high as possible and we will play with focus and ambition

I want the players to continue to improve and make progress

we expect to finish top half and prepare well for next season

we will mature a little bit more

I will be supporting Man united in Europe because I want English teams to succeed. NOT because if they win the Europa League, 8th could mean Europe.

all can change very quickly, so we can only worry about ourselves

we will see where we finish

I would make the same decisions on rotation if we get into Europe again, it was important as we played every 3 days in the first part of the season

at the same time, we tried to develop players into the system and we had injuries.

It was not possible to keep the intensity if we did not rotate like we did, it was to recover after the game

the young players were involved and with the injuries we have now, the young players who came in earlier in the season are doing well

I was pleased with Clasie and Hojberg. They have not played much lately and their response on the pitch last week was good.

They had a good attitude all the time and came in well

Gabbiadini is physically fit, we will see if he can start or maybe start 2nd half of the game

 

 

there you go

 

8th could mean Europe.

8th could mean Europe.

8th could mean Europe.

8th could mean Europe.

8th could mean Europe.

8th could mean Europe.

8th could mean Europe.

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Shroppie

Shroppie

Posted
Posted
Claude Presser:

 

Shock for football and everyone what happened in Germany

We have good security, for the fans and the player. All people need to take care

The club give confidence on this.....

 

on to the footy........

 

important to keep good ambition for end of the season

we were 10th a few games ago, now we are 9th. It can change quickly

Man City are a good team and it will be a good challenge

we will try to win and keep our ambition going

they have a great manager and great players

but we will keep our ambition

we must take our chances and we will see

we are at home and we will go to win

it will be interesting to go against a great manager like pep

we have faced each other in the champions league also

I played against him when we were players

he built a fantastic team with Barcelona, it was fantastic to see

their recovery of the ball was very good. Pep changed football

I have a lot of respect for him

He has philosophy I like, his football demands quality

he requires technical, intelligent players and he wins

hopefully, not this weekend.

Gabbiadini and Davis will be back in the squad this weekend

we need to wait for charlie, he is training again but he has been out so long, he will need a little more time. Will get time with U23's

It is our objective to finish high as possible and we will play with focus and ambition

I want the players to continue to improve and make progress

we expect to finish top half and prepare well for next season

we will mature a little bit more

I will be supporting Man united in Europe because I want English teams to succeed. NOT because if they win the Europa League, 8th could mean Europe.

all can change very quickly, so we can only worry about ourselves

we will see where we finish

I would make the same decisions on rotation if we get into Europe again, it was important as we played every 3 days in the first part of the season

at the same time, we tried to develop players into the system and we had injuries.

It was not possible to keep the intensity if we did not rotate like we did, it was to recover after the game

the young players were involved and with the injuries we have now, the young players who came in earlier in the season are doing well

I was pleased with Clasie and Hojberg. They have not played much lately and their response on the pitch last week was good.

They had a good attitude all the time and came in well

Gabbiadini is physically fit, we will see if he can start or maybe start 2nd half of the game

 

 

there you go

Thanks, Bats.

 

Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk

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Batman

Batman

Posted
Posted

If united win the Europa League and finish outside of the top 4, they will get a 5th Champions League spot for England, which is the maximum.

lets assume the top 6 will be the current top 6.

 

United's League cup Europa League qualification will go to 6th place, but that could be united anyway (who might have a champions league spot) so that will go to 7th place.

 

The FA Cup winners will probably come from the top 4 this season (anyone really see this arsenal side doing it?, even if they did, they will finish top 6 I would imagine anyway)

so where will that Europa League spot go? has to be 8th, surely???

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Saint_clark

Saint_clark

Posted
Posted
If united win the Europa League and finish outside of the top 4, they will get a 5th Champions League spot for England, which is the maximum.

lets assume the top 6 will be the current top 6.

 

United's League cup Europa League qualification will go to 6th place, but that could be united anyway (who might have a champions league spot) so that will go to 7th place.

 

The FA Cup winners will probably come from the top 4 this season (anyone really see this arsenal side doing it?, even if they did, they will finish top 6 I would imagine anyway)

so where will that Europa League spot go? has to be 8th, surely???

 

No, it just goes to another nation. There is no scenario where 8th gets Europa.

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trousers

trousers

Posted
Posted (edited)

This post on an Everton forum is a pretty good summary of how the qualification malarkey works (KIV they are looking at it from the point of view 7th, but the source material is still relevant to the discussion about 8th on here - the bit I've highlighted in red being the most pertinent - for 'Sevilla' substitute 'Man Utd' this time around)

 

http://members.boardhost.com/peoplesforum/msg/1491916137.html

 

I know this has been done to death in various places, but I've read up on it & checked my understanding with people who are employed to know this stuff. So I may as well share it in a single place...

 

A quick summary on EL qualification for 7th place. Based on UEFA Regultions.

 

UCL Regulations here

UEL Regulations here

 

 

ENG are limited to 7 teams in Europe, right? Wrong!

 

A lot of people seem to be under the impressions that ENG are limited to a max 7 spots across the two UEFA competitions. This is not the case. In fact the limit is actually 9.

 

This is best clarified by UCL Regulations Article 3.09, specifically section 3.09c

 

"3.09 If the UEFA Champions League titleholder and the UEFA Europa League

titleholder come from the same association and do not qualify for the

competition through their domestic championship, one of the following scenarios

applies:

 

...

c. If the association is entitled to four places in the UEFA Champions League and

neither titleholder qualifies for the UEFA Europa League through its domestic

championship, the lowest-placed of the association’s UEFA Champions League

representatives is automatically transferred to the UEFA Europa League (into

the UEFA Europa League group stage and the access list will be rebalanced

accordingly). In this case, the association of the titleholders is entitled to one

additional place (total of five) in the UEFA Champions League and one

additional place (total of four) in the UEFA Europa League."

 

Erm, what about Sevilla / Spain this season? They didn't get 8 clubs in Europe

Correct. There are circumstances that do not incurr extra UEFA spots. This is covered by UEL Regulation Article 3.06. Because Sevilla had qualified for UEL domestically when they won the UEL they took their place in the UCL, but their UEL spot was not redistributed within Spain, but rather UEFA redistributed it to another nation.

This was only because Sevilla had qualified domestically for UEL.

 

"3.06 The UEFA Europa League titleholder is admitted to the UEFA Champions League,

at the entry stage determined by Article 3 of the Regulations of the UEFA

Champions League. If the UEFA Europa League titleholder qualifies for the UEFA

Europa League through one of its domestic competitions, the number of places to

which its association is entitled in the UEFA Europa League is decreased by one.

The created vacancy is rebalanced accordingly and priority for the UEFA Europa

League is given to the domestic cup winners (in accordance with the entry stage

as per the access list)."

 

 

So, what about Leicester winning the UCL? Does it impact 7th qualification?

In a word, no. It doesn't matter in the slightest if Leicester win the UCL or not.

 

If they do win it, ENG get 5 UCL spots (4 + 1 extra) and our 3 UEL spots are not impacted.

 

The UCL Regulations article is 3.03. This may be were the limit of 7 confusion comes from. However the article states that the number of UEL spots is only reduced if the UCL winner qualifies for the UEL domestically. Which Leicester have not.

 

"3.03 The UEFA Champions League titleholder is guaranteed a place in the group stage

even if it does not qualify for the competition through its domestic championship.

If the UEFA Champions League titleholder qualifies for the UEFA Europa League

through one of its domestic competitions, the number of places to which its

association is entitled in the UEFA Europa League is decreased by one. The

created vacancy is rebalanced accordingly and priority for the UEFA Europa

League is given to the domestic cup winners (in accordance with the entry stage

as per the access list)."

 

Infantino even qualified it here

 

"Clubs winning either the UEFA Champions League or the UEFA Europa League," he said, "will not add an extra place to the total number of places available for that association in the subsequent club competition season – with one exception.

 

The only time an association can gain an additional place in the subsequent season's club competitions will be if one of their clubs wins either the UEFA Champions League or the UEFA Europa League and, at the same time, does not finish in a place in their domestic league or domestic cup which automatically grants a place in a UEFA club competition."

 

 

What if Man Utd win the UEL then?

 

In that case, we would lose a UEL spot due to their League Cup win. However, with the new allocation of places being 5 (4+1) & 2 (3-1). Seventh would still qualify for UEL.

 

In fact, it should benefit 7th as ENGs 3rd UEL spot is for the UEL qualifcation rounds and would be returned for another nation. Meaning 7th would enter directly at the group stages.

 

I've not actually found written evidence to confirm this. But it appears to be a logical conclusion as it is the EUL spot Man Utd earned via the League Cup which would be redistributed to another nation.

 

 

What if both Man Utd & Leicester win in Europe?

 

 

In this case, ENG would receive 5 UCL spots and 3 UEL spots. 4th place in the league would tranfer to the UEL. Technically this is as addition UEL spot, however as Man Utd would be losing a UEL spot (see above) the total of 3 UEL spots remains.

 

UCL Article 3.09b

 

"b. If the association is entitled to four places in the competition and only one

titleholder qualifies for the UEFA Europa League through its domestic

championship, the lowest-placed of the association’s UEFA Champions League

representatives is automatically transferred to the UEFA Europa League (into

the UEFA Europa League group stage and the access list will be rebalanced

accordingly). In this case, the association of the titleholders is entitled to one

additional place (total of five) in the UEFA Champions League, but the number

of places to which it is entitled in the UEFA Europa League does not change."

 

So we just have to worry about West Brom then?

Sort of. Technically Southampton are also in the mix because of their games in hand.

 

In theory we could be guaranteed Europe after the next 2 rounds of PL fixtures.

 

Everton : Burnley (H 15 Apr), West Ham (A 22 Apr) : 2 wins = 60pts

West Brom : Liverpool (A 16 Apr), 2nd match postponed : 1 loss = 44pts, 5 games remaining, max 59pts

Southampton: Man City (H 15 Apr), Chelsea (A 25 Apr) : 2 loses = 40pts, 6 games remaining, max 58pts

 

I'm ignoring Arsenal awful form, as if they drop below us none of it matters anyway.

Edited by trousers
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Lets B Avenue

Lets B Avenue

Posted
Posted
Why would an English club being successful in Europe mean another country gets a free place in European competition?

 

It's not a free place for anyone.

 

If the Champions League title holders or the Europa League title holders have qualified for the Europa League through domestic performance, their berth in the Europa League will be vacated (not replaced by another team from the same association), and cup winners of the highest-ranked associations will be moved to a later round accordingly

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Dark Munster

Dark Munster

Posted
Posted
Saints won't be in Europe next season..count on it.

Chelsea, Spurs, Liverpool, City, Utd and Arsenal will be, Everton will be if Leicester don't win the CL and Leicester will be if they do.

So, what about Leicester winning the UCL? Does it impact 7th qualification?

 

In a word, no. It doesn't matter in the slightest if Leicester win the UCL or not.

 

If they do win it, ENG get 5 UCL spots (4 + 1 extra) and our 3 UEL spots are not impacted.

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Dark Munster

Dark Munster

Posted
Posted
8th could mean Europe.

8th could mean Europe.

8th could mean Europe.

8th could mean Europe.

8th could mean Europe.

8th could mean Europe.

8th could mean Europe.

Yes, if Leicester win the CL and finish 8th.

Yes, if Leicester win the CL and finish 8th.

Yes, if Leicester win the CL and finish 8th.

Yes, if Leicester win the CL and finish 8th.

Yes, if Leicester win the CL and finish 8th.

Yes, if Leicester win the CL and finish 8th.

Yes, if Leicester win the CL and finish 8th.

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CB Fry

CB Fry

Posted
Posted
So, what about Leicester winning the UCL? Does it impact 7th qualification?

 

In a word, no. It doesn't matter in the slightest if Leicester win the UCL or not.

 

If they do win it, ENG get 5 UCL spots (4 + 1 extra) and our 3 UEL spots are not impacted.

Putting it in bold still doesn't mean 8th place gets Europe, it doesn't.

 

8th place will not get a European place in any scenario. (Leicester winning the CL and finishing 8th doesn't count because it ain't the 8th place getting them there).

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SKD

SKD

Posted
Posted
Maybe the manager of a premier league team knows better ?

 

The same manager who thought Redmond was an out and out striker "the next Henry"... perhaps he's not always right, as he's not in this case :D

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Dark Munster

Dark Munster

Posted
Posted
Putting it in bold still doesn't mean 8th place gets Europe, it doesn't. It was copied and pasted from above.

 

8th place will not get a European place in any scenario. Yes, who's arguing?

(Leicester winning the CL and finishing 8th doesn't count because it ain't the 8th place getting them there). Whoosh!

...

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Professor

Professor

Posted
Posted
Lawro says City will keep a clean sheet. Hmm. Might do if no Manola.

On the other hand I said we would beat Palace as they had beaten Chelsea.

Will be a draw then.

Being Anti-Lawrenson, which I admit I am, I just can't help biting at every negative comment he makes ahead of our matches. Is there an Anti-Lawrenson's Anonymous that could help or some other way of getting off the drug? I've gone from wanting Saints to win to absolutely CRAVING a win now....

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Pass the Dutchie

Pass the Dutchie

Posted
Posted

https://www.theguardian.com/football/blog/2017/apr/14/premier-league-10-things-to-look-out-for-this-weekend

 

Gabbiadini returns and Guardiola could learn from Puel

Manchester City would be higher up the table this season if they were managed by Claude Puel rather than Pep Guardiola. They might not have enjoyed such spectacular peaks and, in the long run, Puel might not be able to deliver as much glory as Guardiola may yet do, but they would have played with a fair amount of style, all the same, while being a darn sight more sensible than Guardiola’s quixotic capering. If City fail to achieve their minimum target – reaching next season’s Champions League – it will be because, despite the Catalan’s best coaching efforts, some City players remain unable to do what the manager persists in asking them to do. Southampton gave City a scare at the Etihad last October and can be expected to do so again this weekend, especially as Manolo Gabbiadini is fit to lead City’s defence on a merry dance while Maya Yoshida makes light(ish) of Virgil van Dijk’s absence for Saints.

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beatlesaint

beatlesaint

Posted
Posted
https://www.theguardian.com/football/blog/2017/apr/14/premier-league-10-things-to-look-out-for-this-weekend

 

Gabbiadini returns and Guardiola could learn from Puel

Manchester City would be higher up the table this season if they were managed by Claude Puel rather than Pep Guardiola. They might not have enjoyed such spectacular peaks and, in the long run, Puel might not be able to deliver as much glory as Guardiola may yet do, but they would have played with a fair amount of style, all the same, while being a darn sight more sensible than Guardiola’s quixotic capering. If City fail to achieve their minimum target – reaching next season’s Champions League – it will be because, despite the Catalan’s best coaching efforts, some City players remain unable to do what the manager persists in asking them to do. Southampton gave City a scare at the Etihad last October and can be expected to do so again this weekend, especially as Manolo Gabbiadini is fit to lead City’s defence on a merry dance while Maya Yoshida makes light(ish) of Virgil van Dijk’s absence for Saints.

 

He's been better than expected but i wouldnt go that far, not even "ish" !

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Saint-Fred

Saint-Fred

Posted
Posted
https://www.theguardian.com/football/blog/2017/apr/14/premier-league-10-things-to-look-out-for-this-weekend

 

Gabbiadini returns and Guardiola could learn from Puel

Manchester City would be higher up the table this season if they were managed by Claude Puel rather than Pep Guardiola. They might not have enjoyed such spectacular peaks and, in the long run, Puel might not be able to deliver as much glory as Guardiola may yet do, but they would have played with a fair amount of style, all the same, while being a darn sight more sensible than Guardiola’s quixotic capering. If City fail to achieve their minimum target – reaching next season’s Champions League – it will be because, despite the Catalan’s best coaching efforts, some City players remain unable to do what the manager persists in asking them to do. Southampton gave City a scare at the Etihad last October and can be expected to do so again this weekend, especially as Manolo Gabbiadini is fit to lead City’s defence on a merry dance while Maya Yoshida makes light(ish) of Virgil van Dijk’s absence for Saints.

 

I would probably agree with this. I struggle to remember a team we had that is so consistent. I know others think we aren't but I don't see a lot of difference between our best games and worst games.. That is probably exactly what Man City need!

 

This is a difficult game to call, it's unlikely we will have as much possession as we usually do. The first goal could be crucial but whichever way that goal goes I would think it will be tight with neither team running away with it.. I will go 1-1.

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farawaysaint

farawaysaint

Posted
Posted
I would probably agree with this. I struggle to remember a team we had that is so consistent. I know others think we aren't but I don't see a lot of difference between our best games and worst games.. That is probably exactly what Man City need!

 

This is a difficult game to call, it's unlikely we will have as much possession as we usually do. The first goal could be crucial but whichever way that goal goes I would think it will be tight with neither team running away with it.. I will go 1-1.

 

I.... we've been shocking in some games.

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Shroppie

Shroppie

Posted
Posted
I.... we've been shocking in some games.

Not really. There have been plenty of games where we've struggled to score but very few overall poor games. Palace away was one and Arsenal in the Cup when we played a weak team.

 

Otherwise we've controlled games and always had periods of good passing, albeit sometimes lacking incisiveness.

 

Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk

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doddisalegend

doddisalegend

Posted
Posted (edited)
Indeed, in my opinion the main difference between our 'great' games and our 'shocking' games has been that our 'shocking' games were extremely frustrating because we didn't manage to score.

 

 

 

Lowest shots to goals stats in the league speaks volumes about where our problems have been this season.

Edited by doddisalegend
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Saint-Fred

Saint-Fred

Posted
Posted
Not really. There have been plenty of games where we've struggled to score but very few overall poor games. Palace away was one and Arsenal in the Cup when we played a weak team.

 

Otherwise we've controlled games and always had periods of good passing, albeit sometimes lacking incisiveness.

 

Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk

 

Even Palace away we had something like 60% possession.

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Golac's Iron Gonads

Golac's Iron Gonads

Posted
Posted

Didn't we also have a spell in December/January of only mustering one shot on target in about 5 consecutive games? Those games, like Sparta and Beerscheva away were bloody dire. Having your defense and defensive midfielders pass the ball around on the halfway line is controlling a game in the same way sizing up a snooker shot for 20 minutes is controlling a snooker match.

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Dark Munster

Dark Munster

Posted
Posted
Those in footballing circles are realising what I've been saying for ages, that Puel really is a world-class manager.

Says he in jest (I hope). I too have been (and still am) one of his staunch defenders, and maybe he'll one day prove to be world-class, but certainly not yet. Examples of world-class managers are Simeone and Mourinho (when he was younger at least).

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Matthew Le God

Matthew Le God

Posted
Posted
Lowest shots to goals stats in the league speaks volumes about where our problems have been this season.

 

Having Gabbiadini from the start of next season, rather than late January will make a difference to that. Plus backed up by a hopefully fully fit again Austin (cue injury "jokes"), who was in good goalscoring form.

 

Gabbiadini and Austin as 1st and 2nd choice strikers for one striking position is pretty good to start a season with. Gabbidini from the start of the season will make a big difference I think, and if Austin is fit then he is a great goalscoring alternative. Long is a useful 3rd choice as he is a defenders nightmare, but as we all know his finishing lets him down compared to Gabbiadini and Austin.

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