Watford 3-4 Saints - Reaction

[Shroppie]

Just wanted to pay credit to Gabbi for his goal which was as simple as it was brilliant. Simple because for him it was a routine tap in. Brilliant because if he's not on the pitch Gomes almost certainly gets away with spilling the ball. A striker who is smart enough and willing enough to gamble on goalkeeping errors is worth his weight in gold and I hope the likes of Redmond and Tadic etc will learn from Gabbi. It's a long time since we've had a striker with such touch, vision and movement and these attributes along with the fact that this guy is a ruthless predator mean we've got some player on our hands as 6 goals (should be 7) in his first four games testifies. He's still getting used to his team mates and vice versa so that is a phenomenal return for a player who, in reality, should still be bedding himself in.

I agree with this. And I think he is already influencing others, particularly Redmond and Tadic in terms of anticipation and movement.

 

After he made a brilliant run yesterday he laid it off to Tadic, who didn't react quite quickly enough and the chance was lost. A fairly animated exchange followed and I think Tadic got the point!

 

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[oldsarum]

I fail to see what FF could have done on any of those goals yesterday.

 

Spot on mate, why can't people get off his back

 

bet most of those blaming him for letting in 3 goals from 4 attempts on target either were not there or hadn't seen the goals on TVs

[dogger]

First of all great result well played all the lads,Ok we are looking like a team that can compete again so a few tweaks needed in like VVD back and maybe another defensive midfielder in place and hey-ho top 6 team, at the beginning of the season we had a solid defence but lacked attack so just maybe we already have that defensive midfielder within the ranks just maybe once the strikers are moving forward Romeu and another just drop back a we bit to snuff out these counter attacks and our goalkeeper coach needs to up his coaching with Forster and get him to command his box a lot more after all some great 6ft 7" chap rushing at you will make them lose a tad of where the ball is going

[Avenue_Saint]

I actually think Stephens can be a decent CDM.

 

Great shout

[Avenue_Saint]

That's where Swindon played him a fair few times when he was on loan there.

 

I wonder if it would make it sense to play him with Caceres (when he's fit) and drop Yoshida so he can learn on the pitch from a top level CB.

 

Lol

[Whitey Grandad]

Since you were a referee Whitey, I was inclined to defer to your greater knowledge of the laws. Is this the relevant law?

 

Law 15: "have part of each foot on the touchline or on the ground outside the touchline"

 

Yes, that's the one!

 

Have you ever thought about becoming a referee? The local county FA will have courses in your area and it would get you out of the house on a Sunday morning. Earn a bit of beer money and be widely respected amongst your community.

 

(Only joking of course)

[Whitey Grandad]

Blimey, you learn something every day! Have always believed your foot couldn't go past the line. Seems strange to me though...

 

I can't remember when I first learnt this little gem of knowledge, even after I'd played a load of games. Most amateur players don't know the laws in any great detail. Some professionals are the same.

[Whitey Grandad]

Just wanted to pay credit to Gabbi for his goal which was as simple as it was brilliant. Simple because for him it was a routine tap in. Brilliant because if he's not on the pitch Gomes almost certainly gets away with spilling the ball. A striker who is smart enough and willing enough to gamble on goalkeeping errors is worth his weight in gold and I hope the likes of Redmond and Tadic etc will learn from Gabbi. It's a long time since we've had a striker with such touch, vision and movement and these attributes along with the fact that this guy is a ruthless predator mean we've got some player on our hands as 6 goals (should be 7) in his first four games testifies. He's still getting used to his team mates and vice versa so that is a phenomenal return for a player who, in reality, should still be bedding himself in.

 

He is very quick and very sharp. I love the little skip he did at Wembley to get round the defender for his first goal.

[mrfahaji]

And I think we conceded 13 in Van Dijk's last 8 completed games - so let's not buy into the fiction that Stephens has joined a watertight defence and been solely responsible for the floodgates opening.

 

He hasn't had the benefit of playing alongside our best defender, Van Dijk, either. Yoshida has conceded 11 in 5 league games without Virgil at his side. Maybe he's "out of his depth" too?

 

I could understand people getting on Stephens' back if he'd been calamitous, but he's done okay for what he is: an inexperienced fifth choice CB dropped into the deep end due to injuries and Fonte's escape act. A fully fit Caceras - should that status ever come around - wouldn't have solved our struggle against the high ball yesterday. Aerial strength is not his selling point.

 

I think there are far greater reasons for our defensive frailties this season, from a keeper who is beaten by about 80% of the shots he faces, to an unbalanced midfield where only one player in the entire squad can tackle and perform anything like a screening brief.

 

But we're playing some good football, attacking with verve and skill, scoring goals and creating chances. And winning on the road. We've become exciting under the most dour manager we've had in years! Enjoy the ride, I say.

 

Good post, particularly the bit about lack of 'screening' midfielders.

[Saint Luke]

Thought we played really well. Loved the second goal. To say the scoreline flattered Watford would be an understatement. They are a limited team of lumoxes who play very basic football imo. Chalk and cheese with Saints.

 

By the way, they're first goal shouldn't have stood. The bloke taking the throw in, might have been the skate, had almost his whole foot over the line.

 

The rules state that both feet have to be over the line for it to be a foul throw. I was surprised when I learnt this a few years ago at a talk by the Surrey FA referees representative.

 

And maybe I should have read the whole thread before posting this as it's mentioned above.

 

 

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Edited 5 March, 2017 by Saint Luke

[Crab Lungs]

Stephens has done admirably considering the circumstances. Didn't see him and yoshida do an awful lot wrong ... conceding three goals from four shots isn't a surprise though with FF in goal, even though he's not exactly to blame yesterday defensively.

 

The only thing that strikes me about the current centre back partnership is a lack of leadership and when up against big lumps like Zlatan and the Watford strikers they aren't strong enough to win the 50/50s.

 

Anyway...what an attacking display going forward. Exciting, incisive and Gabbas movement is absolutely top class. We've got so many exciting options going forward that it'll be interesting to see what we're like with a top class GK and van dijk back. Hopefully that'll happen next season.

 

Oh, and I'll probably bet on our games as 'both teams to score' from now until the end of the season... should be printing money!

[SaffaSaint]

Stephens has done admirably considering the circumstances. Didn't see him and yoshida do an awful lot wrong ... conceding three goals from four shots isn't a surprise though with FF in goal, even though he's not exactly to blame yesterday defensively.

 

The only thing that strikes me about the current centre back partnership is a lack of leadership and when up against big lumps like Zlatan and the Watford strikers they aren't strong enough to win the 50/50s.

 

Anyway...what an attacking display going forward. Exciting, incisive and Gabbas movement is absolutely top class. We've got so many exciting options going forward that it'll be interesting to see what we're like with a top class GK and van dijk back. Hopefully that'll happen next season.

 

Oh, and I'll probably bet on our games as 'both teams to score' from now until the end of the season... should be printing money!

The thing lacking with our current CBs is anticipation. They track runners but dont come out to clear crosses the way Fonte and VVD did at the start of the season. With 2 more weeks training I think we can coach it into them

 

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[Dalek2003]

He has potential to be good at this level. But we desperately need to bulk him up and get him stronger. Get more of a leap on him too and more aggression into him. That's what's holding him back right now.

 

Agreed. Needs to eat more pies

[the_emu]

Just wanted to pay credit to Gabbi for his goal which was as simple as it was brilliant. Simple because for him it was a routine tap in. Brilliant because if he's not on the pitch Gomes almost certainly gets away with spilling the ball. A striker who is smart enough and willing enough to gamble on goalkeeping errors is worth his weight in gold and I hope the likes of Redmond and Tadic etc will learn from Gabbi. It's a long time since we've had a striker with such touch, vision and movement and these attributes along with the fact that this guy is a ruthless predator mean we've got some player on our hands as 6 goals (should be 7) in his first four games testifies. He's still getting used to his team mates and vice versa so that is a phenomenal return for a player who, in reality, should still be bedding himself in.

 

This Gabbi fella impresses me, what I noticed most watching the replay wasn't the goal he scored but if you look at our first two goals he was prowling the 6 yard box like a fox.

 

He is Charlie Austin with pace.

[Pamplemousse]

Where on earth do we fit Charlie Austin in when he comes back from injury?

 

And surely J Rod's time here is up?

[Shroppie]

Where on earth do we fit Charlie Austin in when he comes back from injury?

 

And surely J Rod's time here is up?

We fit him in on the bench, at best. And, sadly, I agree about Rodriguez. I'm hoping Gallagher, Seager or someone else from the Academy can come good as Gabby's understudy. If not, Shlong will just about do for now, but an upgrade would be good.

 

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[Saint_clark]

We fit him in on the bench, at best. And, sadly, I agree about Rodriguez. I'm hoping Gallagher, Seager or someone else from the Academy can come good as Gabby's understudy. If not, Shlong will just about do for now, but an upgrade would be good.

 

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Shlong will still be an excellent alternative next season. Rodriguez, sadly, is done here though.

[DuncanRG]

Where on earth do we fit Charlie Austin in when he comes back from injury?

 

And surely J Rod's time here is up?

 

Austin goes on the bench, where he should always have been.

[striker]

Depends on the formation we use, but having Gabbi, Austin, and Long as the forwards give us a real good trio. If we play two of them each week its a very good rotation.

[vivasadio]

Depends on the formation we use, but having Gabbi, Austin, and Long as the forwards give us a real good trio. If we play two of them each week its a very good rotation.

 

as long as one of them is always gabbiadini

[striker]

Austin goes on the bench, where he should always have been.

 

Don't know how you can say Austin should have been on the bench. He's still our leading scorer even though he hasn't played in 2.5 months

[shurlock]

Don't know how you can say Austin should have been on the bench. He's still our leading scorer even though he hasn't played in 2.5 months

 

Overrated player.

[ErwinK1961]

Don't know how you can say Austin should have been on the bench. He's still our leading scorer even though he hasn't played in 2.5 months

 

I think Manolo has shown up just how limited a striker Austin is.

 

For a start, it's nice to have someone leading the line that doesn't looked completed sh*gged out after 30mins.

[mrfahaji]

People seem quick to write off Austin! Gabbiadini has been excellent, he can finish, is sharp/aware and has a good touch. Austin is still a capable goalscorer though and can certainly be an asset, even if he isn't first choice. Earlier in the season he was our only goal threat and now he "always should have been a sub"...?

 

Gabbiadini first choice, with Long and Austin as two options from the bench or to fill in for suspension/injury etc is a decent armoury. If we sold Austin we'd have to go out and get another striker, can't see the point in that.

[striker]

I don't know why some need to say "Gabbi's good, Austin isn't" . Its not an either/or issue. They are both good and both have shown they can score 15-20 goals in the PL. Gabbi has more pace for sure, but then again Austin is better in the air. I think keeping them both gives us a really good 1-2 scoring punch. I have no problem starting with Gabbi (if we only use 1 striker), but I don't think its fair to dis on Austin. Frankly I think they can both play upfront together, and I think that would be a very potent way to go too.

[doddisalegend]

Austin gets goals every where he plays (which is kind of what you want from a CF) but he is limited. I think he would have done well enough playing under Koeman but he doesn't fit the way Puel is trying to play Gabbi's all round game is better. Puel had Austin trying to move around up front, out wide, dropping deep and being part of quick counters attacks which really isn't Austin's game. Austin in a team set up to his strengths (probably playing 2 upfront) would be an asset but we aren't going to be that team. I reckon somewhere like Palace or Watford he would bang in a **** load.

[stknowle]

I can't remember when I first learnt this little gem of knowledge, even after I'd played a load of games. Most amateur players don't know the laws in any great detail. Some professionals are the same.

 

Whitey, where do the official laws stand on "the fair shoulder barge"? When I first started playing I recall this "law" being referenced as an excuse for robust challenges that made no attempt to win the ball but just knocked the player in possession out of his stride and usually on his arse with no foul being given.

[Whitey Grandad]

Whitey, where do the official laws stand on "the fair shoulder barge"? When I first started playing I recall this "law" being referenced as an excuse for robust challenges that made no attempt to win the ball but just knocked the player in possession out of his stride and usually on his arse with no foul being given.

 

Yeah, I'm old enough to remember them too. 'Shoulder to shoulder' they used to argue. They've been removed from the Laws for some time now. All fouls are covered in Section 12 - Fouls and Misconduct. It is an offence to charge an opponent 'in a manner considered by the referee to be careless, reckless or using excessive force'

 

My dad was quite a good player and back in the old days one of his jobs as full back was to block opposition forwards from charging his goalkeeper into the net at corners. There was a famous instance in a Cup Final. Not allowed now.

Edited 5 March, 2017 by Whitey Grandad

[stknowle]

Yeah, I'm old enough to remember them too. 'Shoulder to shoulder' they used to argue. They've been removed from the Laws for some time now. All fouls are covered in Section 12 - Fouls and Misconduct. It is an offence to charge an opponent 'in a manner considered by the referee to be careless, reckless or using excessive force'

 

My dad was quite a good player and back in the old days one of his jobs as full back was to block opposition forwards from charging his goalkeeper into the net at corners. There was a famous instance in a Cup Final. Not allowed now.

 

All about the breakaway from Rugby I guess. Would be interesting to see the results if, just for one season, full on spear tackling was allowed in the prem and they announced this just before kick off on the first day.

[derry]

Davis still had a good game whether you like it or not.

 

I suggest you take another look. He had a chance to belt the ball into the back of the stand before the first goal but with his usual lack of guts pulled out and just flicked at it looping it up to Deeney. For the second, initially he picked up Okaka, then didn't bother tracking him, just let him go as he ran ten yards to score. Maybe a look at the final MU goals, staying down on the end of the wall, everybody else jumped, let Rojo go before he passed to Lingard for the second and just stood off Herrera with his hands behind his back and made no effort to challenge as Herrera crossed for the winner.

 

Davis might be many things but he can't tackle, doesn't get in tight and more often than not pulls out of the physical challenge.

[Sheaf Saint]

Spot on mate, why can't people get off his back

 

bet most of those blaming him for letting in 3 goals from 4 attempts on target either were not there or hadn't seen the goals on TVs

 

I watched the whole game on a stream, and while I agree that he had little to no chance of saving any of the shots, I do feel he should have come and claimed the FK that was put into his 6-yard box in the run up to the 3rd.

 

For him to continually stay rooted to his line like he does at free kicks and corners is a massive concern for us defensively, as it means we frequently get put under sustained pressure when the first ball in isn't claimed.

[Whitey Grandad]

I watched the whole game on a stream, and while I agree that he had little to no chance of saving any of the shots, I do feel he should have come and claimed the FK that was put into his 6-yard box in the run up to the 3rd.

 

For him to continually stay rooted to his line like he does at free kicks and corners is a massive concern for us defensively, as it means we frequently get put under sustained pressure when the first ball in isn't claimed.

 

FFS, give it a rest. He had no chance with their third.

[derry]

As for the criticism of Austin, despite having to often track the right back, not being able to play his natural in the box game he was still able to score goals when we were hardly creating anything. Gabbiadini has been allowed the freedom to play his own game together with the switch back to our best and natural system and he is doing it brilliantly. Austin in that system will get more than his share of goals and if Gabbiadini isn't available we need him. I also don't think we should write off Long and Rodriguez as they give us alternatives. Leaving ourselves exposed as we have done with the centre backs isn't the way to go. We need to resolve the CB problem and get in at least one good class holding midfielder alongside Romeu. A scoring, strong midfielder wouldn't go amiss, Sigurdsson or similar.

[derry]

FFS, give it a rest. He had no chance with their third.

 

Not only that, he stood up and blocked a certain goal before we broke away and Gabbiadini scored, it could have been 2-3 not 3-2. A more balanced view is required not just picking out the obvious and ignoring the good points.

[Pass the Dutchie]

While I agree that a more balanced view is required, it seems obvious that he's not having a great season, and according to some statistics (shots on target to goal ratio) he's having the worst. He's #5 on the clean sheets list for the season, but at the same time at #18 for number of saves, so it really depends on what you make count. As long as we're scoring more than conceding, I like a game with lots of goals, but Forster doesn't fill me with a lot of confidence lately. I hope he can step up for the rest of the season.

[mrfahaji]

Not only that, he stood up and blocked a certain goal before we broke away and Gabbiadini scored, it could have been 2-3 not 3-2. A more balanced view is required not just picking out the obvious and ignoring the good points.

 

I think it actually would have made it 2-2. I originally thought the same, but wasn't sure so checked the match thread.

 

However, surely if the ball is looped in from afar and crosses through the six yard box, it's fair to wonder if the keeper could have claimed it.

[disconnect]

No Hojbjerg in the squad - injured?

[Saint_clark]

No Hojbjerg in the squad - injured?

 

Someone has to miss out...it was Clasie for the final, Hojberg for this game.

[Scully]

I think I prefer the boring Saints tbh

 

At least we'll be on relatively early on MOTD tonight

 

Weirdly we were on quite late.

[Whitey Grandad]

I think it actually would have made it 2-2. I originally thought the same, but wasn't sure so checked the match thread.

 

However, surely if the ball is looped in from afar and crosses through the six yard box, it's fair to wonder if the keeper could have claimed it.

 

No, of course he couldn't. It wasn't looped, it was driven. Two players at the near post jumped to try to head it and he wouldn't have got near them in time, and if either had got a touch he would have needed to be in goal to make a save. It's even possible that the Watford player did actually get a touch, which would have made the scorer offside. It goes under Long's foot which makes this seem likely. Whether he does or not, the fact that two players are jumping there means that he has to stay back and not come off his line. This cross needs to be cut out early but with Stephens and Yoshida we are not going to dominate at the back in the air.

 

He's had the odd problem this season but save your criticism for cases where it's valid.

[Whitey Grandad]

Weirdly we were on quite late.

 

Game of the day on Sky. I watched the whole match right through

[Wurzel]

I'm noticing more and more with each game that Bertrand seems to be taking on the role of experienced, controlling head in the team, more so when we attacking than defending. He seems to get involved at some stage in almost every attacking move on our left, and is getting into some great forward positions (sometimes too far forward, hence the disallowed goal at Wembley), pulling defenders out wide as Redmond cuts inside.

[Whitey Grandad]

While I agree that a more balanced view is required, it seems obvious that he's not having a great season, and according to some statistics (shots on target to goal ratio) he's having the worst. He's #5 on the clean sheets list for the season, but at the same time at #18 for number of saves, so it really depends on what you make count. As long as we're scoring more than conceding, I like a game with lots of goals, but Forster doesn't fill me with a lot of confidence lately. I hope he can step up for the rest of the season.

 

Statistics are a load of billhooks. On Saturday three goals from four shots on target and with all three there was nothing he could do about them and the fourth was a good save so he stopped 100% of the shots that were saveable. What more could you want? Football is not a game of statistics.

[mrfahaji]

No, of course he couldn't. It wasn't looped, it was driven. Two players at the near post jumped to try to head it and he wouldn't have got near them in time, and if either had got a touch he would have needed to be in goal to make a save. It's even possible that the Watford player did actually get a touch, which would have made the scorer offside. It goes under Long's foot which makes this seem likely. Whether he does or not, the fact that two players are jumping there means that he has to stay back and not come off his line. This cross needs to be cut out early but with Stephens and Yoshida we are not going to dominate at the back in the air.

 

He's had the odd problem this season but save your criticism for cases where it's valid.

 

Have watched it again after reading this, and yes you are right, I thought the ball was much deeper when it came in. The ball is too far out when it arrives in the box and only swings closer to the goal towards the back post. He could have done better with the other two goals - not saying either were his fault, and plenty of other keepers would have failed to save them, but they weren't impossible to stop, and it would be nice to see a few saves in those situations.

[Saint_clark]

Statistics are a load of billhooks. On Saturday three goals from four shots on target and with all three there was nothing he could do about them and the fourth was a good save so he stopped 100% of the shots that were saveable. What more could you want? Football is not a game of statistics.

 

The fourth was straight at him.

[Pass the Dutchie]

On Saturday three goals from four shots on target and with all three there was nothing he could do about them

 

It's happened too often though, this season. A top quality goalkeeper does save some of those 'unsaveable' shots every now and then. It's about positioning, anticipation, speed. Forster hasn't made a save in a long time that made you think "Wow, that's a GREAT save."

[ErwinK1961]

No, of course he couldn't. It wasn't looped, it was driven. Two players at the near post jumped to try to head it and he wouldn't have got near them in time, and if either had got a touch he would have needed to be in goal to make a save. It's even possible that the Watford player did actually get a touch, which would have made the scorer offside. It goes under Long's foot which makes this seem likely. Whether he does or not, the fact that two players are jumping there means that he has to stay back and not come off his line. This cross needs to be cut out early but with Stephens and Yoshida we are not going to dominate at the back in the air.

 

He's had the odd problem this season but save your criticism for cases where it's valid.

 

I don't think the criticism is for the cross for the goal, more so the cross before that which was looped in high towards the back post.

[Whitey Grandad]

The fourth was straight at him.

 

? It's still a save, even if it was low down by his feet and he did have to move to stop it.

Edited 6 March, 2017 by Whitey Grandad

[Whitey Grandad]

Have watched it again after reading this, and yes you are right, I thought the ball was much deeper when it came in. The ball is too far out when it arrives in the box and only swings closer to the goal towards the back post. He could have done better with the other two goals - not saying either were his fault, and plenty of other keepers would have failed to save them, but they weren't impossible to stop, and it would be nice to see a few saves in those situations.

 

Thanks for looking again. Their second was very fast from close in and actually went in off the post so it would be asking a lot for anybody to stop it. Their first was placed several feet outside his reach.

 

As I said, he has his faults but on Saturday he did all that could have been expected of anybody.

[The Cat]

Thanks for looking again. Their second was very fast from close in and actually went in off the post so it would be asking a lot for anybody to stop it. Their first was placed several feet outside his reach.

 

As I said, he has his faults but on Saturday he did all that could have been expected of anybody.

 

He dealt pretty well with a few testing crosses that he palmed away from danger.

 

I don't think their second goal would have gone in if Stephens hadn't slipped. Not his fault, just unfortunate.