saints1988 Posted 21 February, 2017 Share Posted 21 February, 2017 Having just seen the news that Luke Shaw is once again not in the squad for Manchester United's Thursday night dead rubber trip to France, it got me thinking how has leaving Saints done that player any good for footballing reasons? I am sure his bank balance and lifestyle has greatly improved but would he take that same opportunity again should he be offered it? Over recent years there is also players like Calum Chambers, AOC, Theo Walcott and the list goes on... If the powers that be brought in a rule that once an academy player had played a first team game for that club they could not move permanently to another club for three years, would supporters agree with this? Adam Lallana, I am sure he could have moved on when we slipped down to league one but in all honesty it did him a world of good staying at Saints. And even our biggest success story Gareth Bale really struggled to cope with the move to Tottenham at first, would another two seasons forced at Southampton really hurt his development? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
farawaysaint Posted 21 February, 2017 Share Posted 21 February, 2017 Having just seen the news that Luke Shaw is once again not in the squad for Manchester United's Thursday night dead rubber trip to France, it got me thinking how has leaving Saints done that player any good for footballing reasons? I am sure his bank balance and lifestyle has greatly improved but would he take that same opportunity again should he be offered it? Over recent years there is also players like Calum Chambers, AOC, Theo Walcott and the list goes on... If the powers that be brought in a rule that once an academy player had played a first team game for that club they could not move permanently to another club for three years, would supporters agree with this? Adam Lallana, I am sure he could have moved on when we slipped down to league one but in all honesty it did him a world of good staying at Saints. And even our biggest success story Gareth Bale really struggled to cope with the move to Tottenham at first, would another two seasons forced at Southampton really hurt his development? Would just mean the big clubs picked up players sooner and we would get smaller fees sadly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
a1ex2001 Posted 21 February, 2017 Share Posted 21 February, 2017 There wood have to be a break clause for players that didn't make it so they weren't stuck for 2-3 years because they played 5 minutes in a league cup game and that would just be abused you can't trap a player they stay when they want to and go when they want to. Shaw should just be used of an example to them during contract discussions that a big money move doesn't guarantee playing success! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doddisalegend Posted 22 February, 2017 Share Posted 22 February, 2017 Having just seen the news that Luke Shaw is once again not in the squad for Manchester United's Thursday night dead rubber trip to France, it got me thinking how has leaving Saints done that player any good for footballing reasons? I am sure his bank balance and lifestyle has greatly improved but would he take that same opportunity again should he be offered it? Over recent years there is also players like Calum Chambers, AOC, Theo Walcott and the list goes on... If the powers that be brought in a rule that once an academy player had played a first team game for that club they could not move permanently to another club for three years, would supporters agree with this? Adam Lallana, I am sure he could have moved on when we slipped down to league one but in all honesty it did him a world of good staying at Saints. And even our biggest success story Gareth Bale really struggled to cope with the move to Tottenham at first, would another two seasons forced at Southampton really hurt his development? I'm not sure you can use Walcott or Oxo as examples of players that have failed both turn out pretty regularly for Arsenal (though probably not as much as they liked) and England. Chambers is the one for who the move away from saints was to soon IMO. Shaw is a talent but it seems that mentally he is a bit weak and needs a coach/manager that will hold his hand and show him a lot of love like Poch apparently did. I could see him moving to spurs and doing really well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charliemiller Posted 22 February, 2017 Share Posted 22 February, 2017 I'm not sure you can use Walcott or Oxo as examples of players that have failed both turn out pretty regularly for Arsenal (though probably not as much as they liked) and England. Chambers is the one for who the move away from saints was to soon IMO. Shaw is a talent but it seems that mentally he is a bit weak and needs a coach/manager that will hold his hand and show him a lot of love like Poch apparently did. I could see him moving to spurs and doing really well. Luke shaw was constantly monitered by the fitness and medical team because he a bad diet and always gained weight in the close season , keeping his fitness levels up was a challenge , as a academy player he was given constant guidence ........he is now a pro in a very big club ...money he has yes but life is very different Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Highfield Saint Posted 22 February, 2017 Share Posted 22 February, 2017 We make a lot of money by showcasing and selling players for more than they are worth. We groom them into a product that is very much in demand and capitalise on this with inflated values. It is one of the real skill sets in the club and as yet the media (who constantly ask how we can sell our best players) don't see it. I think it may be slowly changing though but we have hopefully created a base (based on sales profits to improve revenue) that will allow us to build using a retained player model Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saints1988 Posted 22 February, 2017 Author Share Posted 22 February, 2017 I'm not sure you can use Walcott or Oxo as examples of players that have failed both turn out pretty regularly for Arsenal (though probably not as much as they liked) and England. Chambers is the one for who the move away from saints was to soon IMO. Shaw is a talent but it seems that mentally he is a bit weak and needs a coach/manager that will hold his hand and show him a lot of love like Poch apparently did. I could see him moving to spurs and doing really well. I would say both Theo and Chamberlain have not gone on to have careers that would have been expected of them so far IMO, Chamberlain especially Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkSFC Posted 22 February, 2017 Share Posted 22 February, 2017 Although I have not completed some proper research, you will find I am sure that the vast majority of footballers (and athletes in general) who between the ages of 15/16 to 20/21 standout, look like they are miles ahead of others (and are in many respects) do not actually go on to fulfill percieved expectation from that snap shot. What has actually happened is that they have merely developed quicker (in strength, speed, emotional, sporting inteligence terms) than those around them but this is no guarantee of their eventual peak. I would like to see a rule that prevents players moving permanently before the age of 20 as I think that is a better marker generally than 16 or 18. Clubs, especially those at a lower level should be given more time to create players and players should not feel like they need to rush. Players only really establish themselves in top flight teams from 24/25 onwards when they begin to really understand themselves as a human being but also the game, and then improve consistancy of training, preparing, playing, recovering etc etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doddisalegend Posted 22 February, 2017 Share Posted 22 February, 2017 I would say both Theo and Chamberlain have not gone on to have careers that would have been expected of them so far IMO, Chamberlain especially Really? They both left us young and while they were both exciting talents did anyone watching them think they were going to be world class? Both of them get to play for a regular top four club and get picked for England not sure what else you would have expected them to achieve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saintwbu Posted 22 February, 2017 Share Posted 22 February, 2017 I'm not sure about forcing players to stick around but I think there should be a limit on how much wages can rise on a new contract, maybe a percentage increase or something. I know it'd never happen, but would remove an element of the temptation to move for money, but would probably see more players move for career purposes and football reasons, rather than money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkSFC Posted 22 February, 2017 Share Posted 22 February, 2017 I'm not sure about forcing players to stick around but I think there should be a limit on how much wages can rise on a new contract, maybe a percentage increase or something. I know it'd never happen, but would remove an element of the temptation to move for money, but would probably see more players move for career purposes and football reasons, rather than money. I dont know if legally this could happen but I'd like to see a structured table of base earnings, with "additional" earnings going into a trust fund / pension pot for when the player retires. This way whilst they are playing their disposable finance is far more level and less influential. So for example; Everyone at Man Utd (main squad players) gets £20k per week PAID. Any bonuses for goals, clean sheets can be paid or if the player chooses this goes into their trust fund account. Then whatever an individual player negotiates as their weekly fee; so lets take Rooney on £300k, the remianing £280k each week goes into his trust fund. The upper limit of say £20k per week could apply at all levels and so players can take it all or place in their trust fund / pension pot as is their wish. So someone on £5k per week may want to place £1k into his TF. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saints1988 Posted 22 February, 2017 Author Share Posted 22 February, 2017 Really? They both left us young and while they were both exciting talents did anyone watching them think they were going to be world class? Both of them get to play for a regular top four club and get picked for England not sure what else you would have expected them to achieve. Getting picked for England would not be high up on my list of achievements, getting an England cap this day in age is not a difficult thing. I would say that they are both bit part players for Arsenal and both have been constantly linked at moves away from Arsenal during there time there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doddisalegend Posted 22 February, 2017 Share Posted 22 February, 2017 Getting picked for England would not be high up on my list of achievements, getting an England cap this day in age is not a difficult thing. I would say that they are both bit part players for Arsenal and both have been constantly linked at moves away from Arsenal during there time there. So what were your expectations for them then? Barca? Real? I liked both of them as youngsters here but I don't ever think either of them looked a class above so in that context a career at arsenal and playing for England seem a decent return on their talent to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saints1988 Posted 22 February, 2017 Author Share Posted 22 February, 2017 So what were your expectations for them then? Barca? Real? I liked both of them as youngsters here but I don't ever think either of them looked a class above so in that context a career at arsenal and playing for England seem a decent return on their talent to me. My original point was there talent would have nurtured better at Southampton for an extra 1-2 years instead of going to Arsenal. Case in point being Lallana stayed longer and in my opinion is performing at a higher level then both Theo & Chamberlain currently, would you agree? And to add to that both of them in my opinion have more natural ability then Lallana, especially AOC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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