Les does it again

[Saint86]

If we lose the cup final because of the centre backs he has still ****ed up.

 

He has completely ****ed up. Doesn't matter what anyone says. Gabbi should have been signed in the summer and he royally messed up the CB's. No defending that and fry is a tool for even bothering to. But then 80% of us know that about him anyway. Didn't even see him being positive pre-Sunderland yet he wants to spout his "club can do no wrong" ******** when he gets a win. Absolutely no backbone or commitment.

[Micky]

He has completely ****ed up. Doesn't matter what anyone says. Gabbi should have been signed in the summer and he royally messed up the CB's. No defending that and fry is a tool for even bothering to. But then 80% of us know that about him anyway. Didn't even see him being positive pre-Sunderland yet he wants to spout his "club can do no wrong" ******** when he gets a win. Absolutely no backbone or commitment.

Is there steam coming out of your ears...?

 

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[CB Fry]

He has completely ****ed up. Doesn't matter what anyone says. Gabbi should have been signed in the summer and he royally messed up the CB's. No defending that and fry is a tool for even bothering to. But then 80% of us know that about him anyway. Didn't even see him being positive pre-Sunderland yet he wants to spout his "club can do no wrong" ******** when he gets a win. Absolutely no backbone or commitment.

 

Feel free to point me in the direction of any posts from me defending the club over what happened with the centre back situation in January. While you're looking, you may find a fair few posts from me laying into the club and Les specifically, some of them are jolly funny too.

 

But if you want to make sh it up in your angry little head, I'm not going to stop you.

[Super_Uwe]

My take on Les Reed is pretty simple...he gets stick because of his dreadful spell in charge of Charlton in 2006.

 

The fact his job now is completely different is irrelevant - the fans who don't rate him generally don't want to know. In their eyes he will always be the loser head coach who isn't good enough for our club.

[Le Timmier]

Under Reed we've lost Mopo, Koeman, Shaw, Lallana, Lovren, Chambers, Lambert, Morgan, Clyne, Alderweireld, Mane, Pelle, Big Vic and Fonte (VVD n Bertrand will likely leave this summer) thats a lot of talent to lose in a short reign.

 

It's almost like players and managers don't stay at the same club for their whole career...

[saint1977]

I do wish every result wasn't followed by a whopping amount of "I told you so" posts and threads, whichever way it may be.

 

There's no denying Les Reed has put a lot of good things in place, deserves recognition for our recent continued success, and yes, has put a system in place that has allowed us to unearth some great players. However, if he misses an opportunity in one area (e.g. centre back) but delivers in another, it doesn't render any criticism of the former suddenly incoherent or incorrect.

 

Sensible post alert. Whatever happened to balance, objectivity and constructive criticism? Corbyn, Brexit and Trump I suppose.

[saint1977]

My take on Les Reed is pretty simple...he gets stick because of his dreadful spell in charge of Charlton in 2006.

 

The fact his job now is completely different is irrelevant - the fans who don't rate him generally don't want to know. In their eyes he will always be the loser head coach who isn't good enough for our club.

 

You are entitled to your take but the Fonte/CB situation was/is behind much of it. Didn't have a good summer window either. He gets credit - and has been much praised in the media for 6 years of progress - so he has to take responsibility for not delivering on his promise to replace Fonte, especially after VVD's injury. We allegedly ended up trying to sign Jordi Amat!

 

Well done on Gabbiadini - great signing - and many of the others - but we needed a striker in August despite Claude's nonsense about Redmond as a striker.

[sadoldgit]

You are entitled to your take but the Fonte/CB situation was/is behind much of it. Didn't have a good summer window either. He gets credit - and has been much praised in the media for 6 years of progress - so he has to take responsibility for not delivering on his promise to replace Fonte, especially after VVD's injury. We allegedly ended up trying to sign Jordi Amat!

 

Well done on Gabbiadini - great signing - and many of the others - but we needed a striker in August despite Claude's nonsense about Redmond as a striker.

 

Apparently the rumour about Amat is not true. Still, why worry about all the good that has happened when you can did up the few mistakes? Try looking at the bigger picture, I don't think you will find it is that bad.

[cellone]

My take on Les Reed is pretty simple...he gets stick because of his dreadful spell in charge of Charlton in 2006.

 

The fact his job now is completely different is irrelevant - the fans who don't rate him generally don't want to know. In their eyes he will always be the loser head coach who isn't good enough for our club.

Nah I give him stick because he's a gobby showman. While I think he has done his job well for the most part getting a striker six months late and failing to bring in a CB deserve no praise at all. If Manalo had signed in the summer and a decent experienced CB had been brought in as seamlessly as Les stated it would be then it would only be his look at me demeanour that was irritating then I would be less critical as his personality is of little concern where as two rather large fk ups are.

[saint1977]

Apparently the rumour about Amat is not true. Still, why worry about all the good that has happened when you can did up the few mistakes? Try looking at the bigger picture, I don't think you will find it is that bad.

 

I wasn't suggesting it was - would just like an acknowledgement that balanced and objective views exist. Shame your post failed on this count - partisan again- and we all have to be rose-tinted glasses or Reed out camps. Thankfully there's more common sense at the games themselves.

[Professor]

Under Reed we've lost Mopo, Koeman, Shaw, Lallana, Lovren, Chambers, Lambert, Morgan, Clyne, Alderweireld, Mane, Pelle, Big Vic and Fonte (VVD n Bertrand will likely leave this summer) thats a lot of talent to lose in a short reign.

Perfectly entitled to an opinion but the evidence isn't so strong when you analyse why players and managers left. MoPo went for a 'Big' club, Koeman for 'Big' money; Of the players mentioned, would there really still be place in the team for Lovren, Chambers, Lambert, and Pelle? As for Fonte, he was losing his place, partly through age but probably also affected by his desire to move on before his career ended. Morgan's transfer was disappointment to him, Shaw hasn't done as well as expected although partly due to injury and perhaps a manager who doesn't seem to rate him. Alderweireld wasn't actually contracted to Saints and Mane had made clear his determination to move to a 'Big' club as had Wanyama, Lallana and Clyne. Players are free not to sign contracts if they think they can earn more elsewhere, and that, I'm afraid is the real world ever since Johnny Haynes stopped players being slaves.

 

It is true that Les Reed has failed to turn Southampton into a Liverpool, Tottenham or Manchester United but why don't those who complain, explain how that can be done? After all, it only needs money, as Chelsea and Man City have shown. Tell us what Reed should have done to get our owner to spend her money in the way that Abramovich has done.

[Dan Johnson]

 

Under Reed we've lost Mopo, Koeman, Shaw, Lallana, Lovren, Chambers, Lambert, Morgan, Clyne, Alderweireld, Mane, Pelle, Big Vic and Fonte (VVD n Bertrand will likely leave this summer) thats a lot of talent to lose in a short reign.

 

 

Hang on, under reed we also SIGNED Mopo, Koeman, Lovern, Clyne, Alderwireld, Mane, Pelle, Vic, VVD, Bertrand. If he's credited with letting them leave then lets also credit him with getting them into the club in the first place!

[Micky]

Hang on, under reed we also SIGNED Mopo, Koeman, Lovern, Clyne, Alderwireld, Mane, Pelle, Vic, VVD, Bertrand. If he's credited with letting them leave then lets also credit him with getting them into the club in the first place!

 

You haven't quite got the hang of how this works yet have you. Let's not try and present a balanced view, let's also not get to into the facts eh, just write whatever looks good for your side of the story - much, much easier.

[Heisenberg]

Hang on, under reed we also SIGNED Mopo, Koeman, Lovern, Clyne, Alderwireld, Mane, Pelle, Vic, VVD, Bertrand. If he's credited with letting them leave then lets also credit him with getting them into the club in the first place!

 

Mane and Vic + Koeman. Rest was Cortese

 

Given we have targets lined up 2 years in advance youd also assume Koeman was on cortese list, mane too

[Toadhall Saint]

Mane and Vic + Koeman. Rest was Cortese

 

Given we have targets lined up 2 years in advance youd also assume Koeman was on cortese list, mane too

 

And cortese consulted with who?

[Heisenberg]

And cortese consulted with who?

 

Head of recruitment Paul Mitchell?

 

Another one Reed failed to keep hold of

[ALWAYS_SFC]

Head of recruitment Paul Mitchell?

 

Another one Reed failed to keep hold of

 

Your vendetta against Reed is becoming obsessive and quite frankly embarrassing, Les Reed must have really upset you in some way unrelated to SFC...

[Heisenberg]

Your vendetta against Reed is becoming obsessive and quite frankly embarrassing, Les Reed must have really upset you in some way unrelated to SFC...

 

No vendetta, hes been in charge for 2.5 years... I dont buy all the he was secretly in charge for 7 years nonsense.

 

In the 2 years in charge hes lead us to decent league finishes, i give him some credit for that and alot is obviously momentum.

 

I said in the summer that this was a big year for him, picking the manager from scratch for possibly the fisrt time and working on his transfer targets not Mitchell or cortese legacy targets.

 

He hasnt done well on his own yet. I feel it will get worse

 

No vendetta just my opinion. Don't rate him highly

[OldNick]

Mane and Vic + Koeman. Rest was Cortese

 

Given we have targets lined up 2 years in advance youd also assume Koeman was on cortese list, mane too

Im not a fan of Reed but I think Victor was not RK

[Heisenberg]

Im not a fan of Reed but I think Victor was not RK

 

Sorry meant VVD. Imagine he was on our list while Mitchell was here, but Reed did sign him

[St Chalet]

I'm quite sure Les was in charge of the football side of things under the Cortese regime. Whilst Nicola took the glory and indeed probably did the final negotiations in a lot of stuff you have to credit Les with the groundwork and the detail.

 

Cortese did well in hiring a good egg in Les and backing him to build an infrastructure. To say any more than that is down to Cortese is fantasy. Les has been more public under Krueger, but I suspect that he's pulling the strings almost the same.

[Heisenberg]

I'm quite sure Les was in charge of the football side of things under the Cortese regime. Whilst Nicola took the glory and indeed probably did the final negotiations in a lot of stuff you have to credit Les with the groundwork and the detail.

 

Cortese did well in hiring a good egg in Les and backing him to build an infrastructure. To say any more than that is down to Cortese is fantasy. Les has been more public under Krueger, but I suspect that he's pulling the strings almost the same.

 

Would be good to hear from someone behind the scenes. Monk or Guan? Someone that will genuinely know who did what and when

 

I might be being unfair to Reed, perhaps he was more influential when Cortese was here.... I hadn't really heard about Les atall until Cortese left

[Saint Albert]

Putting aside the CB issue, it really does look early doors like Les has signed an absolute monster in Gabbiadini, without getting fleeced during the notoriously difficult January transfer window. He and the club deserve credit for that. You just have to look at West Ham's repeatedly embarrassing efforts to bring in multiple strikers of varying incompetence to appreciate this.

[St Chalet]

Would be good to hear from someone behind the scenes. Monk or Guan? Someone that will genuinely know who did what and when

 

I might be being unfair to Reed, perhaps he was more influential when Cortese was here.... I hadn't really heard about Les atall until Cortese left

 

You didn't really hear about anyone in the club, until Cortese left.

[Heisenberg]

Putting aside the CB issue, it really does look early doors like Les has signed an absolute monster in Gabbiadini, without getting fleeced during the notoriously difficult January transfer window. He and the club deserve credit for that. You just have to look at West Ham's repeatedly embarrassing efforts to bring in multiple strikers of varying incompetence to appreciate this.

 

You didn't really hear about anyone in the club, until Cortese left.

 

True and true

[ALWAYS_SFC]

No vendetta, hes been in charge for 2.5 years... I dont buy all the he was secretly in charge for 7 years nonsense.

 

In the 2 years in charge hes lead us to decent league finishes, i give him some credit for that and alot is obviously momentum.

 

I said in the summer that this was a big year for him, picking the manager from scratch for possibly the fisrt time and working on his transfer targets not Mitchell or cortese legacy targets.

 

He hasnt done well on his own yet. I feel it will get worse

 

No vendetta just my opinion. Don't rate him highly

 

We know your opinion, you post it enough and that is the point that proves your obsession.... why do you feel the need to keep on and on about the same thing?

Decent league finishes !! If it was Everton you would be telling us how wondeful they are

[wild-saint]

Would be good to hear from someone behind the scenes. Monk or Guan? Someone that will genuinely know who did what and when

 

I might be being unfair to Reed, perhaps he was more influential when Cortese was here.... I hadn't really heard about Les atall until Cortese left

 

It think you over estimate Cortese's role in identifying football targets. He was a banker / finance guy and would be responsible for overall strategy / leadership of the business. Not a chance he got involved in specifics around scouting etc.

 

I run a business and we employ a whole team of technical IT staff. Whilst i absolutely have driven the companies growth and success I would dream of getting involved in identifying staff outside of my sphere of knowledge.

[NickG]

Overseen great recruitment for 6 years.

Has any other club had such progress over same amount of transfer windows and also making huge profit on certain players?

 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/teams/s/southampton/8625569.stm

 

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[Toadhall Saint]

Head of recruitment Paul Mitchell?

 

Another one Reed failed to keep hold of

 

So he would have consulted both then.

[Toadhall Saint]

True and true

 

Then you should be a bit more diligent before spouting off about SFC.

[cellone]

You didn't really hear about anyone in the club, until Cortese left.

 

and I quite liked that.

[Morse]

There is no doubt Reed deserves some credit for our return to the top flight, but equally there is no doubt he dropped a bollock by not getting a striker signed back in August, and for letting Fonte go without a replacement. Being as the biggest part of his job is recruitment and retention you have to ask yourself why he norsed up so spectacular. Where was the famous 'black box' ?

[Toomer]

Well done Les? Well done Pella he told Gabby to join us.

[Donatello]

Well done Pella he told Gabby to join us.

 

Well done the pilot who flew him over.

[John B]

There is no doubt Reed deserves some credit for our return to the top flight, but equally there is no doubt he dropped a bollock by not getting a striker signed back in August, and for letting Fonte go without a replacement. Being as the biggest part of his job is recruitment and retention you have to ask yourself why he norsed up so spectacular. Where was the famous 'black box' ?

 

I dont think Les norsed up but I do think that Long and Jrod norsed up in the first half of the season by failing to score many goals and Les is not a clairvoyant as he did not realise that Austin would be badly injured.

 

As the club plays with only one striker having Long Jrod and Austin was sufficient I would have thought.

 

With regard to Fonte yes it would have been great to get a replacement but if no suitable one was available the club decided they would go to end of the season with VVD Yoshi Stephens and Gardos which has got us to Wembley and will probably get us a top 10 finish which I think is reasonable.

 

There is no point in getting players in if they are not in the long term going to significantly improve the team like Gabby is probably going to do

[Dellman]

It think you over estimate Cortese's role in identifying football targets. He was a banker / finance guy and would be responsible for overall strategy / leadership of the business. Not a chance he got involved in specifics around scouting etc.

 

I run a business and we employ a whole team of technical IT staff. Whilst i absolutely have driven the companies growth and success I would dream of getting involved in identifying staff outside of my sphere of knowledge.

 

Presumably you mean not dream, I understand why you need a good staff around you

[Gemmel]

Les didn't mess up. We had two big CB targets lined up for the summer but were forced to enter the market early for one of them. A number of deals fell through because of injury and reasons out of SFC's control. Remember we have to deal with other clubs (who aren't as well run as us). Sometimes things just don't work out. Its easy to blame LR but think of how many people are involved in a transfer nowadays and then imagine the egos, the greed, the incompetence and the short time scale of a January transfer window. It isn't easy.

 

Les most certainly did mess up and big time.

 

But, if he is ultimately responsible for that, then by default he is responsible for all of the amazing things that have happened under his watch and his tenure.

 

I don't know him and have never met him. I know people who do and have and the opinions vary greatly.

 

What I do know is that as a Director of Football, at this point in time, he currently has one of the Worlds most impressive CV's and we have a two page thread to get him out.

 

You couldn't make it up - Actually given the OP then you probably could.

[Jonnyboy]

Les most certainly did mess up and big time.

 

But, if he is ultimately responsible for that, then by default he is responsible for all of the amazing things that have happened under his watch and his tenure.

 

I don't know him and have never met him. I know people who do and have and the opinions vary greatly.

 

What I do know is that as a Director of Football, at this point in time, he currently has one of the Worlds most impressive CV's and we have a two page thread to get him out.

 

You couldn't make it up - Actually given the OP then you probably could.

 

Actually the Les Reed Out thread is five pages.

[cellone]

(o) (o)

0

[Gemmel]

Actually the Les Reed Out thread is five pages.

 

Lol - fair play:)

[Greenridge]

Les didn't mess up. We had two big CB targets lined up for the summer but were forced to enter the market early for one of them. A number of deals fell through because of injury and reasons out of SFC's control. Remember we have to deal with other clubs (who aren't as well run as us). Sometimes things just don't work out. Its easy to blame LR but think of how many people are involved in a transfer nowadays and then imagine the egos, the greed, the incompetence and the short time scale of a January transfer window. It isn't easy.

 

No one said it was easy but it's his job. He messed up. End of.

[wild-saint]

Presumably you mean not dream, I understand why you need a good staff around you

 

yes clearly i meant would not dream of getting involved in identifying technical staff. Although my team understand the type of employee I want working in my company. From a specific skill set requirement i leave that completely down to the manager of the team.

[John B]

No one said it was easy but it's his job. He messed up. End of.

 

Please can you explain how Les has messed up if a number of deals fell through because of injury and reasons out of SFC's control.

 

We dont want to get in players who in the long term are not going to be good aquisitions for the club .

 

A Cup Final and a top 10 finish is hardly a failure with a young squad a new manager out of form strikers and injuries to key players VVD Austin and Boufel

[Saint Albert]

Please can you explain how Les has messed up if a number of deals fell through because of injury and reasons out of SFC's control.

 

We dont want to get in players who in the long term are not going to be good aquisitions for the club .

 

A Cup Final and a top 10 finish is hardly a failure with a young squad a new manager out of form strikers and injuries to key players VVD Austin and Boufel

 

Transferring Fonte to W.Ham without having his replacement nailed down was a complete screw up IMHO.

[Bearsy]

Transferring Fonte to W.Ham without having his replacement nailed down was a complete screw up IMHO.

 

Thought we lucked out there tbh. If our transfer target is gonna get a bad injury, better to get it before we sign him, rather than 5 minutes after.

[Lord Duckhunter]

Transferring Fonte to W.Ham without having his replacement nailed down was a complete screw up IMHO.

 

Not if Fonte's behaviour was having a detrimental effect of the squad & Puels authority. How do you know that Puel took the decision that he'd rather not have Fonte round the place, had no intention of playing him and would rather get by without him.

 

It makes me laugh the "Reed screwed up" line. It's said with so much certainty and belief, but is based on absolutely nothing. We don't know Puels thoughts, we don't know the budgetary constraints, we don't know how much other centre halves wanted or how much their selling clubs wanted. We don't know who was available & whether any were realistically going to come to Saints. I seem to recall some experts claiming Benteke was an ideal signing we should of got , how's that one working out for Palace. One thing for sure is that once VvD got injured dozens of agents will have been on the phone offering us centre halves. The fact we didn't get one could be down to a number of reasons , not just Les ****ed up. It's perfectly conceivable that Puel wanted Fonte out at all costs, that Reed didn't want to get in an auction with Palace over Sakho. That Reed & Puel didn't feel others available were worth spending mega dough on( because the price would have gone up once VvD got injured). What if Kat's budget only stretched to Gabbi & a cheaper option that fell through. Puel & Les may have decided that with Stephens, Yoshida & Gardos a striker was priority ( and who knows Martin may have been on the radar by the end of the window)Somebody once said, and I think it was Tony Pullis, that we're well run and one of the reasons is around who we don't buy, just as much as who we do buy. Throwing money around like a sailor on shore leave is not the answer to a set back. Walking away from a bad deal, sometimes is.

 

Les Reed has done enough good over the years, so I intend to give him the benefit of the doubt, rather than just assume ( without knowing any details) that he'd ****ed up

 

 

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[whelk]

Not if Fonte's behaviour was having a detrimental effect of the squad & Puels authority. How do you know that Puel took the decision that he'd rather not have Fonte round the place, had no intention of playing him and would rather get by without him.

 

It makes me laugh the "Reed screwed up" line. It's said with so much certainty and belief, but is based on absolutely nothing. We don't know Puels thoughts, we don't know the budgetary constraints, we don't know how much other centre halves wanted or how much their selling clubs wanted. We don't know who was available & whether any were realistically going to come to Saints. I seem to recall some experts claiming Benteke was an ideal signing we should of got , how's that one working out for Palace. One thing for sure is that once VvD got injured dozens of agents will have been on the phone offering us centre halves. The fact we didn't get one could be down to a number of reasons , not just Les ****ed up. It's perfectly conceivable that Puel wanted Fonte out at all costs, that Reed didn't want to get in an auction with Palace over Sakho. That Reed & Puel didn't feel others available were worth spending mega dough on( because the price would have gone up once VvD got injured). What if Kat's budget only stretched to Gabbi & a cheaper option that fell through. Puel & Les may have decided that with Stephens, Yoshida & Gardos a striker was priority ( and who knows Martin may have been on the radar by the end of the window)Somebody once said, and I think it was Tony Pullis, that we're well run and one of the reasons is around who we don't buy, just as much as who we do buy. Throwing money around like a sailor on shore leave is not the answer to a set back. Walking away from a bad deal, sometimes is.

 

Les Reed has done enough good over the years, so I intend to give him the benefit of the doubt, rather than just assume ( without knowing any details) that he'd ****ed up

 

 

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All true but why say he won't go until a replacement lined up. Got everyone's hopes up and could've just kept quiet.

We were clearly after one but didn't get it done and that is his job.

Hopefully Stephens form and improvement will mean it doesn't hurt us as it could but everyone can see we are lighter than we should be in centre of defence.

[alpine_saint]

To me its clear that overall Reed's time in charge has been a path of success.

 

That doesnt mean we are not allowed to express the opinion that he dropped a massive b*ll*ck over the CB situation in the January window, which could still cost the club dearly. And I think its perfectly reasonable to ask if complacency has set in, especially after the summer activity.

[trousers]

why say he won't go until a replacement lined up

 

Maybe that was the plan at the time he said it, but then the situation changed?

 

That said, I accept Reed doesn't do himself any favours by not issuing a short statement after the event to explain why he wasn't able to fulfil his 'promise'.

Edited 14 February, 2017 by trousers

[Dan Johnson]

Mane and Vic + Koeman. Rest was Cortese

 

Given we have targets lined up 2 years in advance youd also assume Koeman was on cortese list, mane too

 

I think that's selective, we don't actually know who is response or even involved (as i imagine it's a committee of people) signing players/allowing them to leave. Les is just the poster boy for that committee.. he's the Colonel Sanders to our KFC, his face is on the bucket but it doesn't mean he's cooking the chicken!

 

To me its clear that overall Reed's time in charge has been a path of success.

 

That doesnt mean we are not allowed to express the opinion that he dropped a massive b*ll*ck over the CB situation in the January window, which could still cost the club dearly. And I think its perfectly reasonable to ask if complacency has set in, especially after the summer activity.

 

I do agree with this, he's not unaccountable, we don't want to buy into the "Southampton way" to the point we're blinkered into making the wrong decision.