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Martin Caceres Signs - Official

Katalinic

By Katalinic,
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shurlock

shurlock

Posted
Posted
Fairly obviously just cover for our first choice CBs and with nothing to play for, other than whether we finish 8th or 12th in midtable, we might as well give JS some game time.

 

Seems fairly sensible to me and a reasonable save from the cock-up in the transfer window. Doubt either MC or FG will be here come August.

 

Which begs the question whether we are going to sign one ot two CBs in the summer.

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Lighthouse

Lighthouse

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Which begs the question whether we are going to sign one or two CBs in the summer.

 

One, subject to VvD staying or leaving. Although many on here will expect us to sign 2 and wet their knickers when we don't.

 

On the wildy optimistic assumption that Virgil stays it's going to be him, Mystery Man, Yoshi and JS. Given that choices 3 and 4 are performing adequately at the moment, I'd be happy enough with that.

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cellone

cellone

Posted
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One, subject to VvD staying or leaving. Although many on here will expect us to sign 2 and wet their knickers when we don't.

 

On the wildy optimistic assumption that Virgil stays it's going to be him, Mystery Man, Yoshi and JS. Given that choices 3 and 4 are performing adequately at the moment, I'd be happy enough with that.

If Virgil leaves then we will need to replace him along with still needing to replace Jose. Caceres is only a temp. No wet knickers

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Lighthouse

Lighthouse

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If Virgil leaves then we will need to replace him along with still needing to replace Jose. Caceres is only a temp. No wet knickers

 

That's what I said.

 

The knickers will become moist when we don't sign 2 replacements for Gardos and Fonte/MC. Virgil staying/leaving is a separate issue.

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  • 2 weeks later...
Disco Stu

Disco Stu

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I'm baffled as to why this guy continues to remain on our bench when our current pairing have let 18 goals in over their last 10 premier league games. Supposedly, we had one of the best defenders over the last 5 years of serie a sitting on our bench today. What exactly was he brought in for if not to play? Also, if these rumours about an extortionate appearance fee are true then that's a very poor piece of business indeed.

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cellone

cellone

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He's not staying, will not make us any money when he goes. I can see why he isn't being played, He is only here to cover the fk up with Fonte leaving. Cover for a terrible self created situation. I hope he doesn't play as that would mean an injury or ban for Jack or Maya.

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CB Fry

CB Fry

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I am slightly surprised Puel hasn't at least brought him on for 25 minutes by now.

 

I know typically you don't tend to sub on/off centre backs but even without seeing him ever kick a ball I know he's more likely to score than Jay Rodriguez.

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S-Clarke

S-Clarke

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People are also ignoring the fact that Caceres is actually more of a RB than a CB, he's played most of his games as a RB.

 

Basically, the club dropped an absolute **** by not replacing Fonte and needed to be seen to do something. The fact we bought in Caceres proves that they know they dropped a ****.

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Roger

Roger

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People are also ignoring the fact that Caceres is actually more of a RB than a CB, he's played most of his games as a RB.

 

Basically, the club dropped an absolute **** by not replacing Fonte and needed to be seen to do something. The fact we bought in Caceres proves that they know they dropped a ****.

 

Completely agree after les reed said that we wouldn't sell fonte unless an adequate replacement was bought.

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CB Fry

CB Fry

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People are also ignoring the fact that Caceres is actually more of a RB than a CB, he's played most of his games as a RB.

 

Basically, the club dropped an absolute **** by not replacing Fonte and needed to be seen to do something. The fact we bought in Caceres proves that they know they dropped a ****.

Indeed. He was very obviously nothing more than a desperate signing, will have no role in our future and we wouldn't have touched him if one of those two potential CB signings had come off in January, whoever they were.

 

It's slightly mental the way people seem so desperate for him to play - he's gone through two entire transfer windows where he couldn't get arrested. He's clearly not the world beater some think he is.

 

I think the enforced run for Stephens has been a good thing all in all.

 

He will only play if the other two get injured or suspended - that is very clear now.

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Roger

Roger

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Indeed. He was very obviously nothing more than a desperate signing, will have no role in our future and we wouldn't have touched him if one of those two potential CB signings had come off in January, whoever they were.

 

It's slightly mental the way people seem so desperate for him to play - he's gone through two entire transfer windows where he couldn't get arrested. He's clearly not the world beater some think he is.

 

I think the enforced run for Stephens has been a good thing all in all.

 

He will only play if the other two get injured or suspended - that is very clear now.

 

Why is the run for Stephens good? 26 conceded in 12 games and his error cost us cup final. Will play for totton one day. The modern day Matthew bound.

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S-Clarke

S-Clarke

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Why is the run for Stephens good? 26 conceded in 12 games and his error cost us cup final. Will play for totton one day. The modern day Matthew bound.

 

It's good for his experience and development, there's certainly a lot more mileage in us giving Stephens the exposure rather than a washed up CB. He's a composed player, not sure what you're getting at. He's been one of the improvements over the course of the 2nd half.

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Disco Stu

Disco Stu

Posted
Posted (edited)
You're basing that on a wild assumption.

 

It's not wild at all. He's proven at Champions league level. Even without much game time this past season, he clearly hasn't lost the ability. I saw him first hand as he completely dominted the U23's game vs Chelsea.

Edited by Disco Stu
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Roger

Roger

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It's good for his experience and development, there's certainly a lot more mileage in us giving Stephens the exposure rather than a washed up CB. He's a composed player, not sure what you're getting at. He's been one of the improvements over the course of the 2nd half.

 

Just an opinion but don't think he's up to it. Since he's gone in we are shipping goals all over place.

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The Cat

The Cat

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Just an opinion but don't think he's up to it. Since he's gone in we are shipping goals all over place.

 

As I just said on the other thread that's not really true. Before the Man City game we only let in 2 goals in the previous 4 games. Even before that we only conceded 2 at Spurs who are smashing goals in for fun in all their other games.

 

Surely it's better for Stephens to gain experience in these largely meaningless fixtures rather than let someone who clearly won't be here next season trot around the pitch.

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Saint_clark

Saint_clark

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Surely it's better for Stephens to gain experience in these largely meaningless fixtures rather than let someone who clearly won't be here next season trot around the pitch.

 

This, absolutely 100% this. Stephens has come on massively in just the short space of time he's been starting. It's rare to have a risk-free opportunity to blood a youngster at CB for an extended period of time.

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James

James

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If it is better for Stephens to gain experience than to play Caceres then why sign or pay him at all? If the logic is that we should be giving youngsters game time then surely Alfie Jones should be the replacement for Jack/Maya if they were to get injured?

 

Unless, of course, the club actually worried we might get relegated when we brought Caceres in?

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Lord Duckhunter

Lord Duckhunter

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If it is better for Stephens to gain experience than to play Caceres then why sign or pay him at all? If the logic is that we should be giving youngsters game time then surely Alfie Jones should be the replacement for Jack/Maya if they were to get injured?

 

Unless, of course, the club actually worried we might get relegated when we brought Caceres in?

 

Are you really that clueless?

 

Here's a theory. The club think Stephens & Yoshida are first choice. They feel that Stephens is ready to play, but that Alfie Jones isn't, and also don't think Gardos is good enough. They therefore make a temporary signing of Caceres as cover in case Stephens or Yoshida get injured or suspended. Stephens & Yoshida haven't got injured or suspended, therefore Caceres hasn't been needed.

 

 

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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leeham_69

leeham_69

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I obviously agree that while we have not much else to play for Stephens should get game time for experience ...

 

But what I -don't- get is, if we all agree we'll need a new CB and Caceres is so good, why aren't we making him our priority? 30 is not old for a CB - certainly it's 4 years younger than the man he's replacing, which is a very long time in football terms. AND if they ARE considering signing him permanently given the above, surely it makes sense to test him out in at least a game, or half a game, or something?

 

I guess my point is, the club will want some pretty good CB targets and be very confident of getting them if we're willing to let Caceres go without a minute spent on the pitch.

 

The conspiracy theorist in me says they're not playing him to reduce the chances of big-club suitors come the window.... ;)

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CB Fry

CB Fry

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I obviously agree that while we have not much else to play for Stephens should get game time for experience ...

 

But what I -don't- get is, if we all agree we'll need a new CB and Caceres is so good, why aren't we making him our priority? 30 is not old for a CB - certainly it's 4 years younger than the man he's replacing, which is a very long time in football terms. AND if they ARE considering signing him permanently given the above, surely it makes sense to test him out in at least a game, or half a game, or something?

 

I guess my point is, the club will want some pretty good CB targets and be very confident of getting them if we're willing to let Caceres go without a minute spent on the pitch.

 

The conspiracy theorist in me says they're not playing him to reduce the chances of big-club suitors come the window.... ;)

 

We aren't considering signing him permanently.

 

He will be out of the door the minute the full time whistle blows at the Stoke match in May.

 

He was signed as desperate emergency cover and wouldn't have touched him if we hadn't co cked up in January with our two targets falling through.

 

He's had not one but two entire transfer windows to attract "big name suitors" when he's been a flipping free transfer. He'll be looking for another suitor come June because he won't be signing for us.

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leeham_69

leeham_69

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Right, I get all that ... but my point is this:

 

If he isn't going to attract big name suitors... but he is deemed good enough to play for us if required (ahead of Gardos) ... but he's not good enough to be even considered longer term... then where does that leave him?

 

There would have been no point signing him if he wasn't considered an upgrade on Gardos - and if he's an upgrade on Gardos, and nobody else wants him... then why not? That's what I mean - our targets must be of a higher calibre than him, and our confidence in landing them equally high.

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CB Fry

CB Fry

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Right, I get all that ... but my point is this:

 

If he isn't going to attract big name suitors... but he is deemed good enough to play for us if required (ahead of Gardos) ... but he's not good enough to be even considered longer term... then where does that leave him?

 

There would have been no point signing him if he wasn't considered an upgrade on Gardos - and if he's an upgrade on Gardos, and nobody else wants him... then why not? That's what I mean - our targets must be of a higher calibre than him, and our confidence in landing them equally high.

In the last few years we've signed Lovren, Toby and VVD and players like Bertrand and Cedric who were both slated when signed but have been great.

 

I have no doubt we have our real targets and we are capable of signing them and they will be quality.

 

I expect us to sign two CBs - an expensive one (Boufal/Gabbi level price) to replace VVD, and a less expensive (£6m) one to replace Gardos/Caceres (but good) taking us back to four first team CBs.

 

The interesting thing will be to see who from those 4 is our first choice pair next season.

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Shroppie

Shroppie

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I'm baffled as to why this guy continues to remain on our bench when our current pairing have let 18 goals in over their last 10 premier league games. Supposedly, we had one of the best defenders over the last 5 years of serie a sitting on our bench today. What exactly was he brought in for if not to play? Also, if these rumours about an extortionate appearance fee are true then that's a very poor piece of business indeed.

Best over the last 5 years? But where has he been the last year? Why no club? No recent match time.

 

If we were in a desperate plight, or we could play him for free, maybe give him a chance. But as things stand, great time to give Stephens experience.

 

 

Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk

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Disco Stu

Disco Stu

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Best over the last 5 years? But where has he been the last year? Why no club? No recent match time.

 

If we were in a desperate plight, or we could play him for free, maybe give him a chance. But as things stand, great time to give Stephens experience.

 

 

Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk

 

Injured. He hasn't lost his ability. There's no doubt in my mind that he's better than Yoshida and Stephens. I believe we should always play our best players. Stephens would probably learn a thing or two from Caceres.

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doddisalegend

doddisalegend

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The situation is ridiculous really. If Stephens was South American he'd be getting lynched, but we all give him more time and understanding.

 

Hardly Stephens is shaping up to be a decent ball playing CB he isn't the finished article, clearly, but developing him with game time is more beneficial in the long term than giving some bloke who won't be here in a few weeks some game time based on the assumption that he used to be good before his year long injury lay off and looked decent in an under 23s game.

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S-Clarke

S-Clarke

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The situation is ridiculous really. If Stephens was South American he'd be getting lynched, but we all give him more time and understanding.

 

Has Stephens been bad? I honestly can't remember him having too many issues, he's adapted surprisingly well in my eyes. I think Yoshida is still more prone to a lapse than Stephens.

 

Still, we shouldn't have been in this situation, but we might as well get the benefit of blooding a youngster out of a bad situation.

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Chez

Chez

Posted
Posted (edited)
There is a leak somewhere.

 

26 goals in the last 12 games....

 

For comparison: Koemans last 28 league games we conceded 26 goals

 

was that with Wanyana and VVD (and dare I say it Pele helping out at set pieces) in the side?

 

There is more to defending than just having decent centre halves. For example, we give the ball away too cheaply, which invites pressure, which eventually tells. Without the likes of Pele, Wanyama and VVD we also have become a small side which also does have an effect, especially at set pieces.

 

That said I am not 100% convinced by Stephens. He looks very comfortable on the ball and has the pace, but I'd like to see a little more physicality and dominance. No idea what Caceres is like, so not going to join the get him in the side bandwagon. The time Stephens is getting now could pay dividends next season though.

Edited by Chez
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