Les Reed

[Saint Benali]

Behave. “Time and time again”.

 

7th,6th,8th, 2 European qualifications and one cup final since Cortese left. So your “time and time again” is actually three quarters of one season. Standing by people who’ve delivered in the past on the basis of a few months struggle is not a “joke” , it’s what most employers do.

 

 

 

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It has not been a few months though has it?

 

As I said somewhere before Reed and co did a lot of good in the past and to deny it is totally wrong. We have had some fantastic results and got to our highest PL positions.

 

But it has been a problem a lot longer than you believe it to be. The whole of 2017 (12 months) we lost almost 50% of our pl games winning just 20%. This year we have won 16% of our PL games.

In comparison to 2016 where we won 18 of our 38 games (48%) and lost 11 (29%)

2015 we won 14 of 38 (36%) and lost 15 (39%)

And in 2014 (when Cortese left) it was 18 wins out of 38 (47%) and 12 loses (30%)

and 2013 12 wins from 37 (32%) and 11 loses (29%)

 

From those figures we can see it isn't a few months struggle. From august 2016 we have played 65 pl games. We have won 17 in total (26%) and lost 27 (42%).

The worst stat over that period in my view is of 34 total home games we have won just 9 games. That is a 26% win at home ratio in almost 18 months. Again showing it isn't just a few months struggle. In that period we also have a home scoring record of under 1 goal a game.

 

The question is how have we gone from winning around 40%+ of our games to now winning 26%? That is a huge drop in results.

[Rebel]

Except that's not what i'm doing.

 

In the 2 years before summer 2016 we strictly targeted players regularly starting for their clubs; Mane, Tadic, Bertrand, Forster, Pelle, VVD, Clasie, Cedric, Austin, Romeu; with no out of favour/backup players (Bertrand and Romeu were out on loan and playing every match).

In the 2 years since we've almost exclusively targeted bench/backup players; Gabbiadini, Hojbjerg, Redmond, McCarthy, Lemina, Hoedt, Carillo; with only Boufal being a regular starter.

 

That change in strategy is clear as day. I can praise the approach we did pre-2016 and be super critical of this appalling strategy since.

 

Add to that the long contracts to player and staff alike in that same Summer 2016, regardless of whether they were a top player we desperately wanted to keep (VVD) or someone that's never quite been at the level of a starter. Another clear strategy shift after the club felt burned on players like Wanyama/Clyne leaving cheap. We now have a huge squad of average players, of which no club wants because half of them aren't getting any game time (we're the only club dumb enough to only sign backup players to be starters).

 

 

Hojberg played 30 game for Schalke on loan in the season before we bought him from Bayern Munich - and Redmond was pretty regular starter for Norwich as well.

 

I actually think its quite a clever model to buy players like Lemina and Hojberg who have great track record at youth levels, moved to a big club and haven't quite made it or been given an opportunity at clubs like Juventus or Bayern Munich. I'd argue the Bertand and Romeu signings were the same model really. Hoedt as well possibly. And I am pretty sure both Lemina and Hojberg will prove to be great signings for us given time.

 

What we haven't done recently maybe is buy the star players from smaller clubs and lesser leagues like we did with Tadic and Mane - Ziyech and Haller are two players I was expecting us to sign following the old model. Maybe Boufal fits this model though.

 

The big change to me is giving bigger and longer contracts to players that just aren't worth it - instead of moving them on and replacing/upgrading them - and not replacing the players we have sold.

[St Marco]

The question is how have we gone from winning around 40%+ of our games to now winning 26%? That is a huge drop in results.

 

[Wade Garrett]

The only stat worth looking at is that we are 3rd bottom in the league after breaking our transfer record a good few times in the last few years, whilst also making a net profit on player trades.

 

The biggest factor in our recruitment seems to be potential sell-on value.

 

Od course, the biggest factor in our league position seems to be a charlatan of a manager.

[John B]

It has not been a few months though has it?

 

As I said somewhere before Reed and co did a lot of good in the past and to deny it is totally wrong. We have had some fantastic results and got to our highest PL positions.

 

But it has been a problem a lot longer than you believe it to be. The whole of 2017 (12 months) we lost almost 50% of our pl games winning just 20%. This year we have won 16% of our PL games.

In comparison to 2016 where we won 18 of our 38 games (48%) and lost 11 (29%)

2015 we won 14 of 38 (36%) and lost 15 (39%)

And in 2014 (when Cortese left) it was 18 wins out of 38 (47%) and 12 loses (30%)

and 2013 12 wins from 37 (32%) and 11 loses (29%)

 

From those figures we can see it isn't a few months struggle. From august 2016 we have played 65 pl games. We have won 17 in total (26%) and lost 27 (42%).

The worst stat over that period in my view is of 34 total home games we have won just 9 games. That is a 26% win at home ratio in almost 18 months. Again showing it isn't just a few months struggle. In that period we also have a home scoring record of under 1 goal a game.

 

The question is how have we gone from winning around 40%+ of our games to now winning 26%? That is a huge drop in results.

 

If we had some decent strikers we would score more goals and win more games.

 

Recruiting decent strikers for clubs our size are very difficult

[Ultimatt]

Hojberg played 30 game for Schalke on loan in the season before we bought him from Bayern Munich - and Redmond was pretty regular starter for Norwich as well.

 

Hojbjerg only had 13 league starts for Schalke: https://www.whoscored.com/Players/101859/History/Pierre-Emile-H%C3%B8jbjerg

Redmond had 24: https://www.whoscored.com/Players/86425/History/Nathan-Redmond

 

Not the kind of numbers you get from important 1st team players.

[Saint86]

 

 

I still can't understand why our fans are incapable of protesting against the board?

 

As a fanbase, we have come around and realised where the real cancer lies, and yet we'd sooner jeer the manager than those who ultimately hamstring us as a club. Madness.

[Matthew Le God]

Except that's not what i'm doing.

 

In the 2 years before summer 2016 we strictly targeted players regularly starting for their clubs; Mane, Tadic, Bertrand, Forster, Pelle, VVD, Clasie, Cedric, Austin, Romeu; with no out of favour/backup players (Bertrand and Romeu were out on loan and playing every match).

In the 2 years since we've almost exclusively targeted bench/backup players; Gabbiadini, Hojbjerg, Redmond, McCarthy, Lemina, Hoedt, Carillo; with only Boufal being a regular starter.

 

That change in strategy is clear as day. I can praise the approach we did pre-2016 and be super critical of this appalling strategy since.

 

Add to that the long contracts to player and staff alike in that same Summer 2016, regardless of whether they were a top player we desperately wanted to keep (VVD) or someone that's never quite been at the level of a starter. Another clear strategy shift after the club felt burned on players like Wanyama/Clyne leaving cheap. We now have a huge squad of average players, of which no club wants because half of them aren't getting any game time (we're the only club dumb enough to only sign backup players to be starters).

 

If players are starting regularly for Lazio, Napoli, Bayern Munich, Juventus, Monaco etc then the club and the player has little reason to go to Southampton. It would be delusional to think Saints can sign the 1st choice players from those teams. In terms of quality of recent signings there isn't much wrong, it is the way the manager is using them and stifling them that is the main issue.

[Give it to Ron]

If players are starting regularly for Lazio, Napoli, Bayern Munich, Juventus, Monaco etc then the club and the player has little reason to go to Southampton. It would be delusional to think Saints can sign the 1st choice players from those teams. In terms of quality of recent signings there isn't much wrong, it is the way the manager is using them and stifling them that is the main issue.

What about Spartak a Champs League club and Promes...delusional?

 

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[Ultimatt]

If players are starting regularly for Lazio, Napoli, Bayern Munich, Juventus, Monaco etc then the club and the player has little reason to go to Southampton. It would be delusional to think Saints can sign the 1st choice players from those teams. In terms of quality of recent signings there isn't much wrong, it is the way the manager is using them and stifling them that is the main issue.

 

So you're saying that our last 2 managers were at fault and that it had nothing to do with our clearly changed strategy of signing backup/out of favour players, while the 3 managers before them were all brilliant and it had nothing to do with our old strategy of buying successful in form players? We can agree to disagree but to me it looks like 2+2=4.

[Lord Duckhunter]

So you're saying that our last 2 managers were at fault and that it had nothing to do with our clearly changed strategy of signing backup/out of favour players, while the 3 managers before them were all brilliant and it had nothing to do with our old strategy of buying successful in form players? We can agree to disagree but to me it looks like 2+2=4.

 

I’d imagine we go for the best players available within our budgets. Do you seriously believe that if a regular starter for Celtic was available, good enough and within our price range we wouldn’t want him because of this change of strategy.

 

I can see the conversation now

 

“ Hey Les there’s this guy at Celtic, will be the next VvD, available for £15 million and his agent is open to a deal”

 

“How many games has he played this season”

 

“Every one”

 

“Sorry not interested, haven’t Malaga got a bench warmer, you know our policy has changed”.

 

Even if your ridiculous theory had some truth in it, the bench warmer policy still delivered our 4th cup final appearance in living memory and one of our best league positions in our entire history. Without looking it up, I doubt we’ve had more than a dozen seasons better than 8th.

 

The original question is why the board haven’t been sacked after delivering errors “time after time”. If you’re going to change the entire board every time the side has a poor season, regardless of what they’ve delivered previously, it’s a recipe for complete and utter mayhem.

 

 

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Edited 19 February, 2018 by Lord Duckhunter

[St Marco]

If players are starting regularly for Lazio, Napoli, Bayern Munich, Juventus, Monaco etc then the club and the player has little reason to go to Southampton. It would be delusional to think Saints can sign the 1st choice players from those teams. In terms of quality of recent signings there isn't much wrong, it is the way the manager is using them and stifling them that is the main issue.

 

I've watched Lazio a lot since I went back to Italy and in that time I think its safe to say they are a club in the same model as Saints. Get players cheap and then sell them off.

Off the top of my head they sold Candreva, Keita Balde, Biglia and obviously Hoedt recently for a lot of money. They don't spend much on one player. Rarely above £10m. Last person they spent that on was Immobile who is a quality player and can see him going at the end of the season.

Roma are the rich ones (American owners) who will spend a lot on players. Especially after selling Salah and Pjanic in recent seasons for a lot of money. Leandro Paredes was a 1st choice last season and they flogged him to a Russian club for a lot of money if I remember right.

 

I can't comment on the other leagues but finance wise Italian football is in a serious need of a financial boost. One of the main issues which I don't know if people are aware of is that most of the stadiums are actually owned by the council so very little match day money actually goes to the clubs. Even then Attendances are pretty bad overall. A lot of them don't even have shirt sponsors and I don't think any have sleeve sponsors (which I hate btw). So many of the clubs were getting into financial **** even Juve who had been dominant since they came back up.

I could be wrong but I think only maybe 3 or 4 Italian teams made it into the top 30-40 revenue list that came out recently. So Lazio for sure will sell anyone if they get enough money for them. Wages wise I would hazard a guess we would pay more. Teams such as Inter pay stupid fees/wages which is catching up with them now.

[ecuk268]

I can't comment on the other leagues but finance wise Italian football is in a serious need of a financial boost. One of the main issues which I don't know if people are aware of is that most of the stadiums are actually owned by the council so very little match day money actually goes to the clubs. Even then Attendances are pretty bad overall. A lot of them don't even have shirt sponsors and I don't think any have sleeve sponsors (which I hate btw). So many of the clubs were getting into financial **** even Juve who had been dominant since they came back up.

I could be wrong but I think only maybe 3 or 4 Italian teams made it into the top 30-40 revenue list that came out recently. So Lazio for sure will sell anyone if they get enough money for them. Wages wise I would hazard a guess we would pay more. Teams such as Inter pay stupid fees/wages which is catching up with them now.

 

Do you have to pay to watch them on TV?

[Heisenberg]

Where is ALWAYS_SFC these days?

 

Without him the Reed supporters club seems dead.

[Ultimatt]

I’d imagine we go for the best players available within our budgets. Do you seriously believe that if a regular starter for Celtic was available, good enough and within our price range we wouldn’t want him because of this change of strategy.

 

I can see the conversation now

 

“ Hey Les there’s this guy at Celtic, will be the next VvD, available for £15 million and his agent is open to a deal”

 

“How many games has he played this season”

 

“Every one”

 

“Sorry not interested, haven’t Malaga got a bench warmer, you know our policy has changed”.

 

I'm sure the board genuinely think they're going for the best available players. It's just not working. We've signed 9 players (+2 free transfers) in the last 2 seasons and not one has become a key player. Not one. Explain that to me. 8 of them weren't good enough for their old clubs to lock down starting places and lo and behold they're struggling to be good enough to lock down a place here.

 

Premier league minutes played this season:

Bertrand 2156

Romeu 2108

Tadic 1939

Cedric 1807

Forster 1800

Yoshida 1534

Hoedt 1530

Davis 1489

Redmond 1376

Stephens 1350

JWP 1283

Lemina 1271

Boufal 1162

Long 1139

VVD 993

Gabbi 948

Hojbjerg 935

McCarthy 630

 

We sold all our top players and the new ex-benchwarmers struggle to cement a place above our old backup players.

 

Even if your ridiculous theory had some truth in it, the bench warmer policy still delivered our 4th cup final appearance in living memory and one of our best league positions in our entire history. Without looking it up, I doubt we’ve had more than a dozen seasons better than 8th.

 

The new approach delivered 17 less league points in its 1st year; Redmond for Mane, Gabbi for Pelle, Hojbjerg for Wanyama; and on track for an even worse 2nd season.

 

The original question is why the board haven’t been sacked after delivering errors “time after time”. If you’re going to change the entire board every time the side has a poor season, regardless of what they’ve delivered previously, it’s a recipe for complete and utter mayhem.

 

Whether Gao sacks the board or not is one thing, but to effectively give them a 3 year contract extension while we sit in the relegation zone is just bizarre. It sends the wrong message. It sends a message that what they're doing is fine and to continue on this path.

[ALWAYS_SFC]

Where is ALWAYS_SFC these days?

 

Without him the Reed supporters club seems dead.

 

Miss me do ya?

 

Still here but bored with the same stuff posted everywhere on repeat , still a Saints fan but not anyone in particular hth

[St Marco]

Do you have to pay to watch them on TV?

 

It's the same in the UK basically. Sky Italia and Mediaset own the current rights so you need a sub to watch them. However they recently got done for pretty much being the same company (Sky own a large stake in them) and the new tv rights will come in after this season. Which look as though its going to Mediapro. Which is actually good news because it will mean all clubs 'should' get an equal share of the money making it more competitive rather than most of it going to Juve and Inter.

[Dellman]

I can't see how getting rid of Reed at this stage of the season would do anythiuing except create more disruption and chaos just when we need calm and order

[Dangermouth]

Les' bubble has burst:

 

http://www.skysports.com/football/news/11701/11260057/inside-stoke8217s-academy-why-the-clubs-long-term-future-is-bright

[Miltonaggro]

Les' bubble has burst:

 

http://www.skysports.com/football/news/11701/11260057/inside-stoke8217s-academy-why-the-clubs-long-term-future-is-bright

 

Was it ever inflated?...

[saint1977]

Les' bubble has burst:

 

http://www.skysports.com/football/news/11701/11260057/inside-stoke8217s-academy-why-the-clubs-long-term-future-is-bright

 

Fair play to him for the good work he has done but as Saints found in 2005, if the first team badly flops, the financial position unless you get back first season means the academy and all departments get cut back and you lose all the gems like we did with Theo, Bale etc

[Saint86]

I can't see how getting rid of Reed at this stage of the season would do anythiuing except create more disruption and chaos just when we need calm and order

 

Literally. The departure of a director of football should have zero effect on the first team between February and May. If it does then the situation is even more wrong than current appears. He does not pick the team or the tactics, and he has no impact on how the players train etc.... He should have been removed following Poch's exit and the summer of discontent.

[Matthew Le God]

He should have been removed following Poch's exit and the summer of discontent.

 

2013/14 - 8th

 

'Pochettino exit and summer of discontent'

 

2014/15 - 7th

 

2015/16 - 6th

 

2016/17 - 8th

[Heisenberg]

Anyone know if this utter bellend is still on his holidays? Anyone spot the muppet at todays game?

[Matthew Le God]

Anyone know if this utter bellend is still on his holidays? Anyone spot the muppet at todays game?

 

Hey Boss...!

 

 

Would you agree unless we know for certain Reed is the one with the power to sack Pellegrino, then it is harsh to blame him for not sacking him? For all we know Gao may have rejected calls from the board to sack Pellegrino.

[Saints foreva]

Where are the uncle Les supporters now?

[Crab Lungs]

Les is likely remaining relaxed and confident

[Crab Lungs]

Hey Boss...!

 

 

Would you agree unless we know for certain Reed is the one with the power to sack Pellegrino, then it is harsh to blame him for not sacking him? For all we know Gao may have rejected calls from the board to sack Pellegrino.

 

I dont think Gao wants to see his investment worth a quarter of what he paid, do you?

[Batman]

Reed is at best, on par with lowe. I'd have rupes over this ****

[Matthew Le God]

I dont think Gao wants to see his investment worth a quarter of what he paid, do you?

 

You would hope and expect not... but then why hasn't Gao insisted on a managerial change? At which point Reed's hand would be forced.

[Pamplemousse]

I'd say we should protest against the board at the next home game but we haven't got one of them for a while, so it'll be too late.

[Matthew Le God]

Reed is at best, on par with lowe. I'd have rupes over this ****

 

They aren't really comparable... due to having different jobs.

[Matthew Le God]

I'd say we should protest against the board at the next home game but we haven't got one of them for a while, so it'll be too late.

 

Even if we had another home game in midweek, a protest wouldn't make the slightest difference.

[Saint Billy]

Millions wasted on record signing who is carp , soon more millions spent on paying off another managers contract. Potential millions lost being relegated out of the Premiership and yet some state that this club is being run prudently. So glad the VVD money is being put to good use.

 

The owner must be crying in his pancake roll.

[Heisenberg]

Hey Boss...!

 

 

Would you agree unless we know for certain Reed is the one with the power to sack Pellegrino, then it is harsh to blame him for not sacking him? For all we know Gao may have rejected calls from the board to sack Pellegrino.

 

You're doing a great job on here mate. Delighted with the sponsorship.

 

Leslie is in charge of "everything" Before he lost the ability to talk he used to tell us all the time

[Topcat]

They aren't really comparable... due to having different jobs.

Just being pedantic.

 

Chairman tick

1st love is hockey tick

 

We may only get relegated under a hockey loving chairman in my lifetime.

[Matthew Le God]

Just being pedantic.

 

Chairman tick

1st love is hockey tick

 

We may only get relegated under a hockey loving chairman in my lifetime.

 

This thread is about Les Reed... not Ralph Krueger.

 

Even if it was about Krueger... Lowe was a major shareholder, Krueger is not.

[Greenridge]

Seems ol' Les is not so desperate to get in front of the media the last 18 months or so.

[Katalinic]

Happy to take the plaudits during the good times but Reed has been found wanting during the past 2 managerial debacles. Totally invisible.

[bazza]

The silence is deafening.

[Heisenberg]

Happy to take the plaudits during the good times but Reed has been found wanting during the past 2 managerial debacles. Totally invisible.

 

In fairness he did briefly appear to tell us what a top job he had done with the vvd sale.

 

Off spending his tidy salary and commission now I pressume

[Badger]

Seems ol' Les is not so desperate to get in front of the media the last 18 months or so.

 

This was said to me by a sports journalist who often covers Saints a couple of weeks ago in a chance meeting and conversation. It hasn't gone unnoticed, although none of them it seems see this as particularly newsworthy to make it a feature.

[Saint86]

Simply has to go ASAP.

[Heisenberg]

This was said to me by a sports journalist who often covers Saints a couple of weeks ago in a chance meeting and conversation. It hasn't gone unnoticed, although none of them it seems see this as particularly newsworthy to make it a feature.

 

Neil Ashton called him out recently.... https://www.thesun.co.uk/sport/football/5272291/southampton-chairman-les-reed-virgil-van-dijk/

[Saint Billy]

Neil Ashton called him out recently.... https://www.thesun.co.uk/sport/football/5272291/southampton-chairman-les-reed-virgil-van-dijk/

 

"They wanted more ambition, more drive, more personality to bridge the gap between mid-table and a return to European football.".

 

Reading that line again made me choke on my cornflakes.

[ART]

Finally realized why we're getting nowhere with Les over getting **** to Pelligrino. He's deaf!!!!

 

[hasper57saint]

Should the Man U Palace result stay the same, we are firmly fixed into the bottom three.Les Reed is totally responsible for this.No excuses.Go with the Pillock NOW!

[Dalek2003]

Should the Man U Palace result stay the same, we are firmly fixed into the bottom three.Les Reed is totally responsible for this.No excuses.Go with the Pillock NOW!

 

Man Utd win by 3-2. We are still 17th!

[Heisenberg]

This is where my blame and anger sits.

 

Les hired him, les failed to fire him.

 

Les is to blame for our situation

[Miltonaggro]

This is where my blame and anger sits.

 

Les hired him, les failed to fire him.

 

Les is to blame for our situation

 

Very lucky man to have had a career in football, currently incredibly lucky that it’s continuing due to the inept insulated fools above him in the SFC food chain. Saints fans’ luck ran out when Koeman departed!