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Les Reed

Heisenberg

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Les Reed - In or Out?  

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  1. 1. Les Reed - In or Out?


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Rebel

Rebel

Posted
Posted

with Les I think its more bad than good unfortunately - and a lot of taking the credit for work done by others and myths - if not actually self delusion.

 

The Black Box was actually Paul Mitchell by the looks of it - most of the the good signings seemed to happen when he was here or just after he left - Tadic, Alderweireld, Mane, Rodriguez, Clyne, Bertrand, Redmond etc - and I would guess Van Dijk was on the list. I am not sure where the Long signing comes from.

 

Ramirez and Osvaldo were Cortese vanity signings.

 

Pelle was a Koeman signing which didn't fit the black-box model but worked. Clasie and Martina were bad Koeman signings. Pied a bad Puel signing. Boufal who knows - but it hasn't worked. Austin like Hoedt was just an obvious one. Carillo a Pellegrino signing.

 

Since Mitchell left Reed's signings have been more bad than good - and lets not get in to the Alderweireld fiasco!

 

Much like the academy - its got worse under Reed not better. A lot of the success we had seems to have been down to the work done by Huw Jennings and his crew before they left - and have since repeated at Fulham.

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St Marco

St Marco

Posted
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Anyone remember this one

 

"I would have stayed at Charlton and kept them up in the Premier League. They had back to back relegations after my resignation on Christmas Eve when my position became untenable, I had never had the opportunity to sign players and took over a depleted and defeated squad. I believe if I had stayed I could have kept them up."

 

Can't doubt his own self belief can you. Problem is it shows he will stick to his own beliefs and continue in that way no matter what is happening around him.

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Daft Kerplunk

Daft Kerplunk

Posted
Posted
with Les I think its more bad than good unfortunately - and a lot of taking the credit for work done by others and myths - if not actually self delusion.

 

The Black Box was actually Paul Mitchell by the looks of it - most of the the good signings seemed to happen when he was here or just after he left - Tadic, Alderweireld, Mane, Rodriguez, Clyne, Bertrand, Redmond etc - and I would guess Van Dijk was on the list. I am not sure where the Long signing comes from.

 

Ramirez and Osvaldo were Cortese vanity signings.

 

Pelle was a Koeman signing which didn't fit the black-box model but worked. Clasie and Martina were bad Koeman signings. Pied a bad Puel signing. Boufal who knows - but it hasn't worked. Austin like Hoedt was just an obvious one. Carillo a Pellegrino signing.

 

Since Mitchell left Reed's signings have been more bad than good - and lets not get in to the Alderweireld fiasco!

 

Much like the academy - its got worse under Reed not better. A lot of the success we had seems to have been down to the work done by Huw Jennings and his crew before they left - and have since repeated at Fulham.

 

This is spot on for me. Plus both Alderweirweld and VVD signed because we had Koeman. Once the lure of Cortese’s CL ambition (however based on sand) and Koeman’s stature were gone, things have been shown for what they are.

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Saint86

Saint86

Posted
Posted
Anyone remember this one

 

"I would have stayed at Charlton and kept them up in the Premier League. They had back to back relegations after my resignation on Christmas Eve when my position became untenable, I had never had the opportunity to sign players and took over a depleted and defeated squad. I believe if I had stayed I could have kept them up."

 

Can't doubt his own self belief can you. Problem is it shows he will stick to his own beliefs and continue in that way no matter what is happening around him.

 

So what, here we go again?

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cellone

cellone

Posted
Posted
with Les I think its more bad than good unfortunately - and a lot of taking the credit for work done by others and myths - if not actually self delusion.

 

The Black Box was actually Paul Mitchell by the looks of it - most of the the good signings seemed to happen when he was here or just after he left - Tadic, Alderweireld, Mane, Rodriguez, Clyne, Bertrand, Redmond etc - and I would guess Van Dijk was on the list. I am not sure where the Long signing comes from.

 

Ramirez and Osvaldo were Cortese vanity signings.

 

Pelle was a Koeman signing which didn't fit the black-box model but worked. Clasie and Martina were bad Koeman signings. Pied a bad Puel signing. Boufal who knows - but it hasn't worked. Austin like Hoedt was just an obvious one. Carillo a Pellegrino signing.

 

Since Mitchell left Reed's signings have been more bad than good - and lets not get in to the Alderweireld fiasco!

 

Much like the academy - its got worse under Reed not better. A lot of the success we had seems to have been down to the work done by Huw Jennings and his crew before they left - and have since repeated at Fulham.

 

Hard to argue with this.

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SuperSAINT

SuperSAINT

Posted
Posted
with Les I think its more bad than good unfortunately - and a lot of taking the credit for work done by others and myths - if not actually self delusion.

 

The Black Box was actually Paul Mitchell by the looks of it - most of the the good signings seemed to happen when he was here or just after he left - Tadic, Alderweireld, Mane, Rodriguez, Clyne, Bertrand, Redmond etc - and I would guess Van Dijk was on the list. I am not sure where the Long signing comes from.

 

Ramirez and Osvaldo were Cortese vanity signings.

 

Pelle was a Koeman signing which didn't fit the black-box model but worked. Clasie and Martina were bad Koeman signings. Pied a bad Puel signing. Boufal who knows - but it hasn't worked. Austin like Hoedt was just an obvious one. Carillo a Pellegrino signing.

 

Since Mitchell left Reed's signings have been more bad than good - and lets not get in to the Alderweireld fiasco!

 

Much like the academy - its got worse under Reed not better. A lot of the success we had seems to have been down to the work done by Huw Jennings and his crew before they left - and have since repeated at Fulham.

 

I'd also add that Koeman was likely found by Mitchell as well.

 

Also, add Mayuka as a Cortese signing.

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Lord Duckhunter

Lord Duckhunter

Posted
Posted
with Les I think its more bad than good unfortunately - and a lot of taking the credit for work done by others and myths - if not actually self delusion.

 

The Black Box was actually Paul Mitchell by the looks of it - most of the the good signings seemed to happen when he was here or just after he left - Tadic, Alderweireld, Mane, Rodriguez, Clyne, Bertrand, Redmond etc - and I would guess Van Dijk was on the list. I am not sure where the Long signing comes from.

 

Ramirez and Osvaldo were Cortese vanity signings.

 

Pelle was a Koeman signing which didn't fit the black-box model but worked. Clasie and Martina were bad Koeman signings. Pied a bad Puel signing. Boufal who knows - but it hasn't worked. Austin like Hoedt was just an obvious one. Carillo a Pellegrino signing.

 

Since Mitchell left Reed's signings have been more bad than good - and lets not get in to the Alderweireld fiasco!

 

Much like the academy - its got worse under Reed not better. A lot of the success we had seems to have been down to the work done by Huw Jennings and his crew before they left - and have since repeated at Fulham.

 

Redmond a good signing????

 

 

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Saint_clark

Saint_clark

Posted
Posted
I'd also add that Koeman was likely found by Mitchell as well.

 

Also, add Mayuka as a Cortese signing.

Yep, add all the bad signings to the "bad managers favourite", Cortese and reed pile and all the good ones to the good manager pile.

Load of rubbish. People seem to think the black box is meant to be some magical thing that goes ding and shows you the perfect player to sign - it's not. It's just a database with detailed information on as many players as possible which a group of people - including reed and the current manager - then discuss and vote on whether to sign. Pelle, clasie, Tadic WOULD have all been on our database already because their stats were so outstanding at their previous clubs.

 

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SuperSAINT

SuperSAINT

Posted
Posted
Wba sack their chairman and Ceo ! Now that's decisive

 

Crikey, I just saw that:

 

@JPercyTelegraph: Brutal action taken today by West Brom owner Guochuan Lai, who has sacked chairman John Williams and chief exec Martin Goodman. Understand that head coach Alan Pardew’s job is safe, despite just picking up 1 PL win so far.. #wba
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SuperSAINT

SuperSAINT

Posted
Posted

WBA are not f*cking around.

 

CLUB STATEMENT: Changes at senior level:

 

WEST Bromwich Albion today announce changes at the senior level of the Club.

 

Chairman John Williams and Chief Executive Martin Goodman have been given notice of termination of their contracts and have been placed on garden leave with immediate effect.

 

Following his recent appointment as a director of WBA Holdings, the Club's controlling company, Mark Jenkins is returning to be the football club's CEO.

 

These changes follow Albion's poor results this season which currently sees the Club at the bottom of the Premier League.

 

A Club spokesperson said: "We would like to thank John and Martin for all their efforts since their appointments and wish them well for the future."

 

Mark, who was previously CEO of the football club for 14 years, ten of which were spent in the Premier League, said: "There is much to do but for now the focus must solely be on the remaining games of this season."

 

There will be no further comment from the Club at this time.

 

Source: https://www.wba.co.uk/news/2018/february/club-statement-changes-at-senior-level/

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doddisalegend

doddisalegend

Posted
Posted

 

 

Not sure how this them helps right now. They changed manager and that didn't have much effect. They went with Sturridge on loan to try and rescue them and he got injured after 3 games. Sacking the chairmen won't really make a difference other than making the owner feel a bit better.

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SKD

SKD

Posted
Posted
Not sure how this them helps right now. They changed manager and that didn't have much effect. They went with Sturridge on loan to try and rescue them and he got injured after 3 games. Sacking the chairmen won't really make a difference other than making the owner feel a bit better.

 

It would 1 million percent help our situation.

 

I think it is clear to everyone, but the current clowns running our club that MP isn't up top the task (no matter how nice he is and how much the players like him).

 

If we sacked Reed & Ralph tomorrow and brought in someone else who could persuade a decent manager (think Cortese persuading / selling the project to Poch) to take over, we would survive. Not to mention the long term benefits.

 

Unfortunately the owners appear to have very little drive and R & R have pretty much free reign.

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doddisalegend

doddisalegend

Posted
Posted
It would 1 million percent help our situation.

 

I think it is clear to everyone, but the current clowns running our club that MP isn't up top the task (no matter how nice he is and how much the players like him).

 

If we sacked Reed & Ralph tomorrow and brought in someone else who could persuade a decent manager (think Cortese persuading / selling the project to Poch) to take over, we would survive. Not to mention the long term benefits.

 

Unfortunately the owners appear to have very little drive and R & R have pretty much free reign.

 

 

Yeah good luck selling the current mess to a half decent manager. Maybe if we had got rid of MoPe before the transfer window we could have used that as a sweetener but know not so much...

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SKD

SKD

Posted
Posted
Yeah good luck selling the current mess to a half decent manager. Maybe if we had got rid of MoPe before the transfer window we could have used that as a sweetener but know not so much...

 

I don't know... I still think we would be pretty attractive to most managers, especially one looking for a footstep into the PL.

 

the reality is we're not down... yet and a few wins on the bounce would all but confirm safety. If we can promise funds to improve where needed / sell the 5 year CL dream (like we used to), I think we could get someone pretty decent.

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doddisalegend

doddisalegend

Posted
Posted
I don't know... I still think we would be pretty attractive to most managers, especially one looking for a footstep into the PL.

 

the reality is we're not down... yet and a few wins on the bounce would all but confirm safety. If we can promise funds to improve where needed / sell the 5 year CL dream (like we used to), I think we could get someone pretty decent.

 

 

Trying to sell the CL dream when you are staring relegation in the face would be a hard sell for anyone....

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Lord Duckhunter

Lord Duckhunter

Posted
Posted

 

(think Cortese persuading / selling the project to Poch)

 

God, I bet that was a tough sell. How on earth did he persuade him. “Well Mauricio, being out of work and pretty much unknown as a manager would you like to come to the worlds richest league”.

 

All those big clubs queuing up to employ him, and Cortese managed to get him, amazing.

 

 

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SKD

SKD

Posted
Posted
Trying to sell the CL dream when you are staring relegation in the face would be a hard sell for anyone....

 

We managed it with Poch :)

 

I'd hope that any new manager would back his ability to get us out of this situation

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Miltonaggro

Miltonaggro

Posted
Posted
Big Les calls the black box, "The Bridge of the Starship Enterprise"

 

It has live feeds to every training session and a team coding footage from all over the world.

 

Thas why our recruitment is so successful. Every aspect is covered and fully analysed :?

 

As our resident Klingon space cadet Reed would know!

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Wade Garrett

Wade Garrett

Posted
Posted

Ive been a supporter of Reed in the past. Think he's done more good than bad on balance.

 

But I have to say, I'm really starting to detest him after a sh*t transfer window, his refusal to get rid of an abysmal manager, the conflict of interest with his son being an agent of some of our players, and him not even being at the ground on Sunday.

 

At the moment, I think he's a bit of a c*nt.

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Heisenberg

Heisenberg

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Ive been a supporter of Reed in the past. Think he's done more good than bad on balance.

 

But I have to say, I'm really starting to detest him after a sh*t transfer window, his refusal to get rid of an abysmal manager, the conflict of interest with his son being an agent of some of our players, and him not even being at the ground on Sunday.

 

At the moment, I think he's a bit of a c*nt.

 

Sums it up.

 

I do wonder what his cut of transfers is?

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Ultimatt

Ultimatt

Posted
Posted
job safe for 3 years. along with Ralph and the rest of the board

 

incredible

072688d621efd9a5f1f3362b967fa93a.jpg

 

Seriously? ... This club is such a joke right now. Run like a South Coast B&B. Time and time again we seem to be rewarding people for failures and showing absolutely zero consequences for poor performances. Long contracts on and off the field as the junior teams fail and our prem team dances with relegation. On what planet do the board deserve a 3 year vote of confidence looking at our current situation?

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Give it to Ron

Give it to Ron

Posted
Posted (edited)
Romeu said MP "is not the main problem at the club." I wonder who is? Personally, I think it's Reed and if the 3 more years with the same board tweet is correct, it sounds like we're now going to be stuck with him until he's 69 years old at least, which will mean further decline.
Main problem for me is selling best players constantly and replacements being levels below. Recruitment is poor Lemina apart.

We always seem to play catch up.

I dont get this no-one will join us rubbish. Brighton signed Locardia looks a handful and 15m well in our range will score more than Long or Carillo. We **** about on 30m players never coming here.

Thats not saying we shouldn't have signed Carillo just bought both.

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Edited by Give it to Ron
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Dangermouth

Dangermouth

Posted
Posted
Romeu said MP "is not the main problem at the club." I wonder who is? Personally, I think it's Reed and if the 3 more years with the same board tweet is correct, it sounds like we're now going to be stuck with him until he's 69 years old at least, which will mean further decline.

 

But as Bertrand said: Romeu is the 'teacher's pet' so he's not going to have a go at him is he? If he's that concerned at looking at the players who are under-performing, he can look at himself.

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Saint IQ

Saint IQ

Posted
Posted
Romeu said MP "is not the main problem at the club." I wonder who is? Personally, I think it's Reed and if the 3 more years with the same board tweet is correct, it sounds like we're now going to be stuck with him until he's 69 years old at least, which will mean further decline.

 

What player in their right mind in any league anywhere would say to the press that the manager is the problem?

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Lord Duckhunter

Lord Duckhunter

Posted
Posted
Seriously? ... This club is such a joke right now. Run like a South Coast B&B. Time and time again we seem to be rewarding people for failures and showing absolutely zero consequences for poor performances.

 

 

Behave. “Time and time again”.

 

7th,6th,8th, 2 European qualifications and one cup final since Cortese left. So your “time and time again” is actually three quarters of one season. Standing by people who’ve delivered in the past on the basis of a few months struggle is not a “joke” , it’s what most employers do.

 

 

 

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Ultimatt

Ultimatt

Posted
Posted
Behave. “Time and time again”.

 

7th,6th,8th, 2 European qualifications and one cup final since Cortese left. So your “time and time again” is actually three quarters of one season. Standing by people who’ve delivered in the past on the basis of a few months struggle is not a “joke” , it’s what most employers do.

 

 

 

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If you accept that our model/strategy changed Summer 2016 then we can look at the effectiveness of this new direction.

 

Contract extensions with likely payrises to the entire squad regardless of how good they are. One particular player probably had the worst season of his career and got back to back contract extensions with 4 years still remaining. That's rewarding poor performance.

The coach in charge of that player, Dave Watson, on the back of that players worst season ever gets promoted to Head of Goalkeeping at all levels (25th July 2016). That's rewarding poor performance.

Our current manager has us in the bottom 3. Instead of being sacked we've given him full backing, having paid out our record signing to a player he used to work with. That's rewarding poor performance.

Our board moved away from the successful model that saw those 8th, 7th, 6th seasons to one that clearly isn't working. Blackmore is saying they've been given 3 years job security. That's rewarding poor performance.

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brmbrm

brmbrm

Posted
Posted
If you accept that our model/strategy changed Summer 2016 then we can look at the effectiveness of this new direction.

 

Contract extensions with likely payrises to the entire squad regardless of how good they are. One particular player probably had the worst season of his career and got back to back contract extensions with 4 years still remaining. That's rewarding poor performance.

The coach in charge of that player, Dave Watson, on the back of that players worst season ever gets promoted to Head of Goalkeeping at all levels (25th July 2016). That's rewarding poor performance.

Our current manager has us in the bottom 3. Instead of being sacked we've given him full backing, having paid out our record signing to a player he used to work with. That's rewarding poor performance.

Our board moved away from the successful model that saw those 8th, 7th, 6th seasons to one that clearly isn't working. Blackmore is saying they've been given 3 years job security. That's rewarding poor performance.

 

So this is basically "Ah, yeah, but if you ignore all the good bits then blah blah blah....". Nice work. You can't do that: you either go for it or you don't, and over the last 5-10 years its been pretty good.

 

Sorry to disappoint

 

(Is this where you normally say "pal" on this forum?)

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Dalek2003

Dalek2003

Posted
Posted
So this is basically "Ah, yeah, but if you ignore all the good bits then blah blah blah....". Nice work. You can't do that: you either go for it or you don't, and over the last 5-10 years its been pretty good.

 

Sorry to disappoint

 

(Is this where you normally say "pal" on this forum?)

 

I called it when the times were good. Yes, they were difficult to see, but I saw the cracks appearing.

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Ultimatt

Ultimatt

Posted
Posted (edited)
So this is basically "Ah, yeah, but if you ignore all the good bits then blah blah blah....". Nice work. You can't do that: you either go for it or you don't, and over the last 5-10 years its been pretty good.

 

Sorry to disappoint

 

(Is this where you normally say "pal" on this forum?)

 

Except that's not what i'm doing.

 

In the 2 years before summer 2016 we strictly targeted players regularly starting for their clubs; Mane, Tadic, Bertrand, Forster, Pelle, VVD, Clasie, Cedric, Austin, Romeu; with no out of favour/backup players (Bertrand and Romeu were out on loan and playing every match).

In the 2 years since we've almost exclusively targeted bench/backup players; Gabbiadini, Hojbjerg, Redmond, McCarthy, Lemina, Hoedt, Carillo; with only Boufal being a regular starter.

 

That change in strategy is clear as day. I can praise the approach we did pre-2016 and be super critical of this appalling strategy since.

 

Add to that the long contracts to player and staff alike in that same Summer 2016, regardless of whether they were a top player we desperately wanted to keep (VVD) or someone that's never quite been at the level of a starter. Another clear strategy shift after the club felt burned on players like Wanyama/Clyne leaving cheap. We now have a huge squad of average players, of which no club wants because half of them aren't getting any game time (we're the only club dumb enough to only sign backup players to be starters).

Edited by Ultimatt
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Pilchards

Pilchards

Posted
Posted
Except that's not what i'm doing.

 

In the 2 years before summer 2016 we strictly targeted players regularly starting for their clubs; Mane, Tadic, Bertrand, Forster, Pelle, VVD, Clasie, Cedric, Austin, Romeu; with no out of favour/backup players (Bertrand and Romeu were out on loan and playing every match).

In the 2 years since we've almost exclusively targeted bench/backup players; Gabbiadini, Hojbjerg, Redmond, McCarthy, Lemina, Hoedt, Carillo; with only Boufal being a regular starter.

 

That change in strategy is clear as day. I can praise the approach we did pre-2016 and be super critical of this appalling strategy since.

 

Add to that the long contracts to player and staff alike in that same Summer 2016, regardless of whether they were a top player we desperately wanted to keep (VVD) or someone that's never quite been at the level of a starter. Another clear strategy shift after the club felt burned on players like Wanyama/Clyne leaving cheap. We now have a huge squad of average players, of which no club wants because half of them aren't getting any game time (we're the only club dumb enough to only sign backup players to be starters).

 

Spot on.

Its shocking that our new signings have been on the bench most of the games which suggests they have not pushed the current first team forward.

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John B

John B

Posted
Posted
Spot on.

Its shocking that our new signings have been on the bench most of the games which suggests they have not pushed the current first team forward.

 

This does not make sense as Hojbjerg, Redmond, McCarthy, Lemina, Hoedt, Carillo; did play on Saturday and Boufal was injured

 

All of these seem to be first team regulars to me except for Redmond so what is your point.

 

SFC is replacing players who have left with players from top class European Clubs such as Munich Monaco Juventus and Lazio most of whom are Internationals

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