Les Reed

[Simon3737]

Leicester's squad is better than ours; their past problems were a hangover from winning the title two seasons ago. They also have owners with very different financial aspirations for their club.

 

Massive TV revenues and transfer profits mean nothing if other clubs have bigger budgets to play with. I cannot think of one of the players that have left in recent times who would have been persuaded to stay. I thought it was bold to fight to keep Van Dyke when it would have been easier to pocket £60m - if you agree then should Les not get the credit. (As it happens I think it has turned out to be a mistake because VVD would appear to have lowered the overall morale of the dressing room). If we lost good players to teams of similar or slightly higher stature than ourselves then I would be put out.

 

I appreciate that Les has a formula that has allowed us to punch above our weight in recent seasons. That formula at least provides a system to follow and gives some form of stability. Stability is preferable to instability in the middle of a season when we might well end up with a relegation scrap.

 

Unless our budget changes I would stick with what we have got because it is stable and proven. You need to judge Les on his long term tenure not on a few months. What will be more influential is the approach of our new owners. I am prepared to give them a chance but there are definitely some anxieties.

 

I think the problem is that Les changed the successful formula 18 months ago. His decision to start signing players (and Koeman he hoped) up to long contracts was a fairly radical change in his ‘formula’.

 

Unfortunately, this change in approach has been a disaster as it’s demotivated the players. They want playing for Saints to be a stepping-stone/shop window.

 

I wish they wanted to commit to us for 5/6 years when they signed extended contracts, but their agents just encouraged them to sign, take the pay rise, and still move to a big club after a season or two.

[Nordic Saint]

At least Les Reed has a long established plan. I have never really bought into this 'We March On' ****** because there was always going to be a ceiling that we could reach and that plan took us to that level and I salute that. Those thinking of sacking Les should firstly ask themselves;

 

What would an alternative plan look like with the same budget?

So, what is Old Les's plan then? To keep taking the club's money until he's 70 or 80 and just using his pension to pay to have his Bentley serviced?

He seems to have got rid of all the people who really brought us success while trying to claim all of the credit for their work and wasting millions on bringing in increasingly mediocre, overpriced managers, coaches and players. When he made those other hangers on, Eric Black and Dave Watson, his favourites, it was already obvious he was doing bloody awful job. If we want to stay up, we need to replace all 3 of them now. The alternative to Old Les is to bring back the man who was largely responsible for our success, Paul 'the Black Box' Mitchell.

[Heisenberg]

The decline is strong with this one.

 

Les Reed :facepalm: :facepalm:

[Miltonaggro]

So, what is Old Les's plan then? To keep taking the club's money until he's 70 or 80 and just using his pension to pay to have his Bentley serviced?

He seems to have got rid of all the people who really brought us success while trying to claim all of the credit for their work and wasting millions on bringing in increasingly mediocre, overpriced managers, coaches and players. When he made those other hangers on, Eric Black and Dave Watson, his favourites, it was already obvious he was doing bloody awful job. If we want to stay up, we need to replace all 3 of them now. The alternative to Old Les is to bring back the man who was largely responsible for our success, Paul 'the Black Box' Mitchell.

 

If Reed has a personal plan it is indeed likely to be to hang on for as long has he can. Talk of him ‘doing the honourable thing’ is meaningless as there is no honour. Saints would likely be in the relegation mire before he pulls the trigger on the current manager, and it will take action by the owners to remove him. Echos of the relegation season are genuine right now, an incredible decline will be his legacy to SFC.

[DuncanRG]

an incredible decline will be his legacy to SFC.

 

That incredible decline in full: League One to Europe.

[CB Fry]

That incredible decline in full: League One to Europe.

Les Reed only responsible for the bad things that happen. Surely you know that now?

[Greenridge]

That incredible decline in full: League One to Europe.

 

That's not it in full though is it. Europe was a year ago.

[Dangermouth]

That incredible decline in full: League One to Europe.

 

That's rather stupid isn't it? We are very clearly now in trouble as we are an ineffective team, the decline has been since the end of the season where we did get into the Europa League and we still only got that because of a number of other reasons. Your argument could be applied to the fact that we fell from our highest position of 2nd some years ago to fall further to then rise. If you take the lowest point as the starting point then anything is 'up' and so on.

 

What is clear is that this manager seems to have been not only ineffective, but negatively so i.e. he has helped with the poor results due to his ineptitude and intransigence and reticence to adknowledge this and its unsuitability in the current climate and play and so he should be got rid of and should have been got rid of a long time ago. Indeed, he should never have been hired but that does now seem to be a political decision (possibly KL stating she didn't want to spend any money at all, possibly Reed thinking he can then climb on the back of MP's 'assumed success' and make out he's great when all he is is a PR mouthpiece) as it certainly wasn't a footballing one. Ballague's lovely piece bigging up another Spanish speaking manager as he did (and so often does) was a piece of fluff at the time and shows him now to have as much credibility as MLG does when it comes to being objective about certain things.

 

Let's look at MP's 'wins'. A lucky one against a sleeping CP defence and then nothing for most of the rest of the game. 2 penalties awarded in the same game against the same team. Very rare indeed unless you are the likes of the monied teams and it's rare enough for them. A game where we lost a 2 goal lead. A nice goal from Boufal that 'came out of nowhere' that otherwise was a 0 -0 and a game in which the mighty sprinter and all-round beast Dusan Tadic got a lucky bounce from a slack pass/bit of control and rather than it being cleared as it would be 999 times out of a thousand he was allowed by an unmoving Everton defence to 'sprint' (he's not fast now, is he?) past 4 of them and get in a free cross onto Austin's head as the team in question seemed to have no capability to play football at all. Had we not been lucky in all of those games we would very likely be looking at at best 4 draws and we would be the team on less than 10 points.

 

I'm sure LR is looking around for another manager. I do expect one soon: his cushy job is on the line and he has been found out. So he wrote a book for the FA? What was it about? FA? Have the coaches on here read it? Has anyone (with any sense)? Is it so good that Guardiola has several copies of it so he can lay his hands on it wherever he is? Did world football honour LR for his irreplicable contribution to the beautiful game? Was it one of those things that 'look good' as LR likes to trot out from time to time when it seems opportune? I agree with those who say he's hanging on but he probably is on borrowed time as he's got a different type of boss to deal with now. Might be why he had a shouting match with MP (if what was reported on here is true); he feels a bit insecure and as Gao apparently had to witness the 4-1 capitulation to Leicester he might have been under a bit of stress.

 

And as for Kruger - well it seems his soundbites have dropped off. Let's be thankful.

 

For those who talk about teams 'worse' than us, and I think we're as bad as about 4 or 5 it's more about who can get the required points than who can 'look good' on paper. At this moment in time we look like we will get about 1 point a game and we need about 1.3 in order to survive. That means we need wins to address the balance and this team doesn't have enough about it, especially in a physical battle and certainly once January is done and we continue to struggle and then have to rely on character and mental strength as well.

 

We need a clear-out now and a whole lot of work over the next season and a half.

[DuncanRG]

That's rather stupid isn't it? We are very clearly now in trouble as we are an ineffective team, the decline has been since the end of the season where we did get into the Europa League and we still only got that because of a number of other reasons. Your argument could be applied to the fact that we fell from our highest position of 2nd some years ago to fall further to then rise. If you take the lowest point as the starting point then anything is 'up' and so on.

 

When assessing Les Reed's legacy, the only starting point is the moment he arrived - League One. Since then we've had six years of ascent, some of the most enjoyable in our club's history, followed by a year where things dropped off and now this season, where things are in reverse. That's the record.

 

The board are starting to eat into the vast amount of credit they earned during the rise, but that credit is still due. 'Incredible decline' from League One is the conference.

[danjosaint]

I completely agree but the clappers will say ' I'll raise u ur lucky for our unlucky ' what if we held on at city or even gone 2 up, what if Bertie had scored against arsenal, what if Bertie had scored at Huddersfield, chances missed against Swansea Burnley and Stoke and so on. MP IS completely out of his depth and has no idea and I'm one who also wants him and Reed gone but there will always be the happy clapper Les Reeds the best but he believes his own hype and until now realises he's been untouchable, maybe he is, we will soon see

Edited 17 December, 2017 by danjosaint

[beatlesaint]

That incredible decline in full: League One to Europe.

 

At the end of the day this is absolutely true. Its been an incredible journey BUT the problem is that the club, and whether this is Les Reed steering it or not, have believed their own publicity a little too much.

They have got to the stage like a gambler on a winning streak who thinks he can bet on anything and never lose. He always does eventually.

The last two years have shown this. Now whether Koeman saw it coming or not obviously I dont know but his timing was excellent for getting out.

Since his departure we have gone backwards. We have appointed two managers who are average at best when we should have been looking for another established name. Our stock was high, higher than it has ever been probably but bad appointments and bad signings have wiped that away. You take a long time to build up a reputation, its a far shorter timescale to wipe it out.

 

That old Southampton mentality of doing things on the cheap reared its ugly head again and has put us where we are now. Too much emphasis on the Academy that hasnt produced a really top player for a few years now and this ridiculous insistence that 50% of the first team will be made up of Academy players. Not going to happen if you want to maintain a top ten Premier League finish.

 

If we arent there already then we will soon be at the point we were throughout the 90's whereby we just hope to survive in the Premier League season by season. Thats fine in its own way, there are what ? 72 clubs outside the Premier League would happily swap places with us.

 

The problem with that is throughout our great escapes we had that guy from the Channel Islands to save us year after year. There arent too many of him around, certainly not at Southampton right now.

[DuncanRG]

At the end of the day this is absolutely true. Its been an incredible journey BUT the problem is that the club, and whether this is Les Reed steering it or not, have believed their own publicity a little too much.

 

I'm confused by this trope. They might be making mistakes or even repeating them, but I don't understand what that has to do with the club PR. It's the sort of connection that can only be made by fans on the outside because the PR is what they see. There's no reason senior executives should pay it any regard and no evidence that they do.

 

We're not doing things on the cheap like the old days - we've broken our transfer record twice in a year - but a few missteps in the transfer market, a big squad with fewer games to play and a slower academy supply have all combined to hurt us. There are questions to be asked about that.

Edited 17 December, 2017 by DuncanRG

[pluto]

Les Reed xyz, when its Ross Wilson calling the shots this year.

[captainchris]

I think the problem is that Les changed the successful formula 18 months ago. His decision to start signing players (and Koeman he hoped) up to long contracts was a fairly radical change in his ‘formula’.

 

Unfortunately, this change in approach has been a disaster as it’s demotivated the players. They want playing for Saints to be a stepping-stone/shop window.

 

I wish they wanted to commit to us for 5/6 years when they signed extended contracts, but their agents just encouraged them to sign, take the pay rise, and still move to a big club after a season or two.

 

Simon - Longer contracts is not the problem.

[captainchris]

I'm confused by this trope. They might be making mistakes or even repeating them, but I don't understand what that has to do with the club PR. It's the sort of connection that can only be made by fans on the outside because the PR is what they see. There's no reason senior executives should pay it any regard and no evidence that they do.

 

We're not doing things on the cheap like the old days - we've broken our transfer record twice in a year - but a few missteps in the transfer market, a big squad with fewer games to play and a slower academy supply have all combined to hurt us. There are questions to be asked about that.

 

Sorry but lots of people are missing the point here. We are not getting the most from the squad we have.....

Whilst we continuously chop and change the team to the point of utter confusion pointlessly dropping players who play well and playing players out of position with zero coaching we will continue to go backwards...

It’s the management and lack of coaching to the players that is hurting us and nothing deeper or more meaningful than that....

[Saint86]

That incredible decline in full: League One to Europe.

 

League 1 to Prem was not Les Reed ffs. This rewriting of history needs to stop. Les Reed wasn't even at the club to sign the key players in that squad... And it was NC praised by all the key players and managers, not balding uncle les.

 

We had momentum when this board got control of the club, and they duly rode it like the crest of a wave, pocketed loads of money, and with little idea what they were doing from a football perspective. Now after a fair period of reflection we are facing very much the wrong way... And they have lost two of the best recent premier league managers, and they have so far sold a champions league and arguably title challenging team of players.

 

Every day there are now non stop calls for the manager out and half the squad to go with him... 3 transfer windows ago we just missed champions league and were the 6th best team in the county!!

 

Yet despite this dire turn of events, we have people defending one of the key protagonists in our tale, and rewriting history by claiming Les Reed man managed our rise from league 1. Its fecking ridiculous. The man is bang average at his job, and currently that is looking kind. He wasn't even at the club when the core of our promotion team were signed. He didn't hire adkins or pardew, he didn't sack adkins, he didn't hire poch. Its just laughable. Fonte, Lambert, Harding, puncheon, Hammond... it just goes on and on. Nada to do with Leslie.

 

How many managers do the fans want out? How many players are we going to turn on? How long will we just forget and ignore where we were 18months ago? How much can the man running the football side of the club get away with before the fans wake up. FFS. Or for the rest of our club's history, will we live the fantasy that Les Reed guided the club to back to back promotions?!?!

Edited 17 December, 2017 by Saint86

[saint1977]

Rather than this thread, how about the club give the new manager more control over first team duties and they decide if they are happy to have Les working for them? Because it isn't working any longer the other way around.

[corky morris]

I dont think he should be fired. However, I do believe when you start to believe your own hype you set yourself up for a fall.

All the videos about the Southampton way have come back to bite. Quite a few times this season we have started without an academy product & that is clearly not the Southampton way.

It was/is also inevitable that we cant keep producing academy players as we have & then finding Mane's, VVD's & Pelle's.

For me, its been the last 2 managers that have not bought out the best of what we have. Add that to just how poorly some of players have played this season (Tadic, Redmond, Forster) & you have a recipe for failure.

We fired Pardew & Adkins. Potch & Koeman left for the dosh, We fired Puel & I think if we lose this weekend we will fire Pelegrino. But we want do that until we have a replacement lined up. Not sure who that would be, but someone more pragmatic than Puel & Pelegrino.

Anyone remember how bad pre Christmas was for Koeman then he switched to 3 at the back with Bertrand on the left of the 3. Changed our season.

Reed needs many accolades for what he has achieved, but he also needs to man up now & start taking some responsibility.

[aintforever]

League 1 to Prem was not Les Reed ffs. This rewriting of history needs to stop. Les Reed wasn't even at the club to sign the key players in that squad... And it was NC praised by all the key players and managers, not balding uncle les.

 

We had momentum when this board got control of the club, and they duly rode it like the crest of a wave, pocketed loads of money, and with little idea what they were doing from a football perspective. Now after a fair period of reflection we are facing very much the wrong way... And they have lost two of the best recent premier league managers, and they have so far sold a champions league and arguably title challenging team of players.

 

Every day there are now non stop calls for the manager out and half the squad to go with him... 3 transfer windows ago we just missed champions league and were the 6th best team in the county!!

 

Yet despite this dire turn of events, we have people defending one of the key protagonists in our tale, and rewriting history by claiming Les Reed man managed our rise from league 1. Its fecking ridiculous. The man is bang average at his job, and currently that is looking kind. He wasn't even at the club when the core of our promotion team were signed. He didn't hire adkins or pardew, he didn't sack adkins, he didn't hire poch. Its just laughable. Fonte, Lambert, Harding, puncheon, Hammond... it just goes on and on. Nada to do with Leslie.

 

How many managers do the fans want out? How many players are we going to turn on? How long will we just forget and ignore where we were 18months ago? How much can the man running the football side of the club get away with before the fans wake up. FFS. Or for the rest of our club's history, will we live the fantasy that Les Reed guided the club to back to back promotions?!?!

 

Les Reed joined the season before we got promoted from League 1 so he played a role on our back-to-back promotions and it's hard to criticise his record up until this season.

[Saint Benali]

Les Reed joined the season before we got promoted from League 1 so he played a role on our back-to-back promotions and it's hard to criticise his record up until this season.

 

Indeed but as pointed out the vast majority of the squad that got us those promotions was put together before Reed was brought in.

Reed obviously played some role in our promotions but to think he played a bigger part than Cortese is a joke.

Regardless of history he has done some good at this club and to forget that is silly. But the decline was well and truly started under his guidance. Question is can he stop making poor decisions that continue to take us backwards? Guess we will find out.

[Heisenberg]

Les Reed bought Fonte and Lambert.

 

Cortese didn’t even play football

[Wade Garrett]

Les Reed's next move, regarding our manager, will define his time with the club.

[aintforever]

Indeed but as pointed out the vast majority of the squad that got us those promotions was put together before Reed was brought in.

Reed obviously played some role in our promotions but to think he played a bigger part than Cortese is a joke.

Regardless of history he has done some good at this club and to forget that is silly. But the decline was well and truly started under his guidance. Question is can he stop making poor decisions that continue to take us backwards? Guess we will find out.

 

Unless you worked there at the time I guess it’s impossible to say how much input Reed had. The only thing for sure is that by far the biggest reason for success is Marcus’ millions, Cortese and other employees did their bit but it’s cash that got us where we are.

[Pamplemousse]

I dont think he should be fired. However, I do believe when you start to believe your own hype you set yourself up for a fall.

All the videos about the Southampton way have come back to bite. Quite a few times this season we have started without an academy product & that is clearly not the Southampton way.

It was/is also inevitable that we cant keep producing academy players as we have & then finding Mane's, VVD's & Pelle's.

For me, its been the last 2 managers that have not bought out the best of what we have. Add that to just how poorly some of players have played this season (Tadic, Redmond, Forster) & you have a recipe for failure.

We fired Pardew & Adkins. Potch & Koeman left for the dosh, We fired Puel & I think if we lose this weekend we will fire Pelegrino. But we want do that until we have a replacement lined up. Not sure who that would be, but someone more pragmatic than Puel & Pelegrino.

Anyone remember how bad pre Christmas was for Koeman then he switched to 3 at the back with Bertrand on the left of the 3. Changed our season.

Reed needs many accolades for what he has achieved, but he also needs to man up now & start taking some responsibility.

 

I think this was the season before the one you're referring to, but I remember there was a game against Everton in December where everyone was expecting us to get smashed, we had injuries everywhere, and we somehow won 3-0

 

December always seems to be bad for us. The club should investigate why really, because it seems to happen every season.

[larry12]

[quote=Sergei Gotsmanov

I appreciate that Les has a formula that has allowed us to punch above our weight in recent seasons.

You need to judge Les on his long term tenure not on a few months.

 

He has had 4 years + which could be construed as "Long term". We can therefore safely deduce that he is shiiite at his job, as we now have the worst squad since we came back up,

Also, IF Saints got relegated this year, it wouldn't surprise at all, if that pompous midget didn't put any salary reduction clauses in those contract extensions he was throwing around like confetti at a wedding.

[Dangermouth]

This is where we were about a month ago:

 

https://www.standard.co.uk/sport/football/epl-table-latest-201718-premier-league-standings-for-gameweek-13-a3701416.htmlhttps://www.standard.co.uk/sport/football/epl-table-latest-201718-premier-league-standings-for-gameweek-13-a3701416.html

 

Now look at today's table. We are clearly dropping in terms of points gained and an upturn in results and there looks to be nothing much to arrest it. We just have to hope that Swansea, West Brom, Stoke, Bournemouth and Newcastle all continue to be as bad as they have been but we said that about Palace not too long ago. I think Huddersfield might well beat us. I think Les' formula is a dud.

[Super_Uwe]

I dont think he should be fired. However, I do believe when you start to believe your own hype you set yourself up for a fall.

All the videos about the Southampton way have come back to bite. Quite a few times this season we have started without an academy product & that is clearly not the Southampton way.

It was/is also inevitable that we cant keep producing academy players as we have & then finding Mane's, VVD's & Pelle's.

For me, its been the last 2 managers that have not bought out the best of what we have. Add that to just how poorly some of players have played this season (Tadic, Redmond, Forster) & you have a recipe for failure.

We fired Pardew & Adkins. Potch & Koeman left for the dosh, We fired Puel & I think if we lose this weekend we will fire Pelegrino. But we want do that until we have a replacement lined up. Not sure who that would be, but someone more pragmatic than Puel & Pelegrino.

Anyone remember how bad pre Christmas was for Koeman then he switched to 3 at the back with Bertrand on the left of the 3. Changed our season.

Reed needs many accolades for what he has achieved, but he also needs to man up now & start taking some responsibility.

 

I agree with you. I think overall he has done a fantastic job, but I get the feeling we have lost our way a bit.

 

It is always going to be difficult for any club to sustain what we have managed to do over the past 8 years. I do worry about us at the moment because we are not a team that is prepared for a relegation scrap like we were in the 90s, for example. We have come a long way since those days, but once things start to snowball it's going to be hard to turn it around.

[Nordic Saint]

So those of you who want to keep Old Les, how much longer should we keep him for? 70, 80 or until he dies? He's already past retirement age.

[Fan The Flames]

We should keep him after he is dead. Put a fruit machine wheel in his mouth with a series of yes nos on it, ask him a question and press a button which spins the wheel and sends a little electric charge to his lips opening then up monkey smile style to reveal the answer with a accompanied little monkey s******.

[CB Fry]

So those of you who want to keep Old Les, how much longer should we keep him for? 70, 80 or until he dies? He's already past retirement age.

At least 80. At very least. And then move him to the role of honourary life president. My only wish would be he is still about at 90 to see the unveiling of his statue.

 

I'd make it different because Les is a different kind of Saints legend to Ted Bates .

 

I'd put him on a plinth with small figures of the key players of the Les era all around him, listening at his feet. Les era players like Fonte, Lambert, Morgan, Lallana, Billy Sharp, Tadic, Pelle, Virgil. The kind of players when you say their name you immediately think "thanks, Les".

[Heisenberg]

We could stuff him and pop him next to that trophy cabinet he purchased a few years ago.

[Saint Billy]

At least 80. At very least. And then move him to the role of honourary life president. My only wish would be he is still about at 90 to see the unveiling of his statue.

 

I'd make it different because Les is a different kind of Saints legend to Ted Bates .

 

I'd put him on a plinth with small figures of the key players of the Les era all around him, listening at his feet. Les era players like Fonte, Lambert, Morgan, Lallana, Billy Sharp, Tadic, Pelle, Virgil. The kind of players when you say their name you immediately think "thanks, Les".

 

I think a cartoon statute ala the original Ted Bates statute would be more applicable for our Les.

[Heisenberg]

Few "ITKs" on Facebook saying he is on very thin ice.

 

Hoping he "resigns" soon like his pal Black

[kermitsaint]

Few "ITKs" on Facebook saying he is on very thin ice.

 

Hoping he "resigns" soon like his pal Black

We can only hope .

 

Sent from my SM-G925I using Tapatalk

[Suhari]

Few "ITKs" on Facebook saying he is on very thin ice.

 

Hoping he "resigns" soon like his pal Black

 

Any chance of copying the text? Would like to see it first hand!

[trousers]

Any chance of copying the text? Would like to see it first hand!

 

Difficult to get something as simple as a screen grab whilst stuck in the bunker on hole #7

[ALWAYS_SFC]

]Few "ITKs" on Facebook[/b] saying he is on very thin ice.

 

Hoping he "resigns" soon like his pal Black

 

[Heisenberg]

Time to earn your huge wage packet Leslie

[Suhari]

Time to earn your huge wage packet Leslie

 

This.

 

Some big decisions to be made in the next few weeks.

[Pamplemousse]

He’s got huge power at the club. I think that might be part of the problem, where’s the oversight?

[Heisenberg]

Can we get a Reed out poll?

 

Always good to confirm whose still sleeping

[ally_uk]

Bring back the don ......

[Pamplemousse]

Wilson is the other issue. Recruitment the past two seasons has been very poor.

[Roger]

Les Reed is useless. Please get rid of him.

[James]

Wilson is the other issue. Recruitment the past two seasons has been very poor.

 

Agree with this - our ability to replace the players we sell really has diminished.

[Wade Garrett]

Time to earn your huge wage packet Leslie

 

Nutshell.

[St Marco]

Sorry but he has to go. He is to blame for all of this imo.

[Viking Saint]

Agree - time to go Les

[Portugalsaint]

They won’t sack him though, he is unsackable. As they are saying on Solent, Saints are disorganised and well beaten. Next stop Man Utd God help us.

[simo]

Reed out poll vote from me too, maybe if he feels the pressure on himself he may pass it on !