Les Reed

[StAndy1970]

Rather and jump on bandwagon, facts are adding up. 5 points off of a relegation spot.

If anyone says this is bed wetting, then they need to wake up. No goals means a struggle.

 

 

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That was ‘rather than, damn predictive text

 

 

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[Saint_Tony]

The Southampton Way can only now be summed up as 'f$uck1ng clueless' . Les Reed has run out of steam. He has done great things for this club but it has now come to and end. Someone new has to come in and change things up.

 

Also time for Tadic to leave. I remember one of the ITKs confirming he was one of 5 due to leave in the summer two seasons back. Unfortunately he wasn't good enough for anyone to bid for him.

 

Not enough of the players give a ****. Get rid of Bertrand and VVD and with the right management coming in we can sort out this mess in January before it's too late.

 

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[saint1977]

The club was in its strongest ever position at the end of the 15/16 season and Les Reed allowed our manager, target man and best player to leave. Him and his transfer recruitment team then went and replaced them with cheap options, or in Pelle's case - not at all.

 

Couldn't have put it better. Add that to last year's January transfer window centre back debacle, leaving only 3 strikers for EL/PL in Summer 2016 and the debacle of the last 2 managers, including sacking one manager who was dull but looks like Johann Cryuff compared with this joker, who has to be on a par with Ian Branfoot as Saints worst ever manager.

 

If you are a very senior figure within any high profile company, the sack is always going to be the result. Trouble is, with the Gaos' lack of knowledge of UK Football, who else might they bring in? They have to try something majorly different though, even if today's result puts us odds on favourite for relegation. We'll be bottom anyway if we stay as we are, as we were in 04/05, having wasted a string of winnable home games with Rupert's moronic Wigley experiment.

 

Reed, Pellegrino, Watson, Eric Black, Ross Wilson all need to go this evening - self-serving and doing SFC huge harm. Need a night of the long knives, Kelvin and Nigel can hold the fort but first we need a Director of Football/Head of Transfers before we have a new manager.

 

Gary Rowett probably won't leave Derby so soon but we need someone who understands English football and preferably how SFC fans expect to see us play - high tempo, high energy, on the deck.

[Miltonaggro]

The club was in its strongest ever position at the end of the 15/16 season and Les Reed allowed our manager, target man and best player to leave. Him and his transfer recruitment team then went and replaced them with cheap options, or in Pelle's case - not at all.

 

Spot on.

[Simon3737]

Les Reed deserves massive credit for his contribution to Saints over the last 7 years, but maybe it’s now time for someone else to take over with some fresh ideas and a new strategy.

 

I don’t believe the players aren’t good enough, although Mane was a huge loss obviously. Our players are better than performances suggest and our recruitment (Redmond excepted) is pretty good (Lemina, Hoedt etc). I think buying black-box bargains rather than proven ‘names’ is the only sustainable strategy for a club our size and we’ve had more hits than misses (and Les deserves great credit for establishing our recruitment infrastructure).

 

However, I think we have to accept (unfortunately) that most modern Premier League players are pampered millionaire prima donnas used to getting what they want and many of them have been very unhappy since the summer of 2016 and this has impacted on the pitch.

 

I think the reason they’re unhappy is because Les radically changed our strategy for player contracts in early 2016. I think we have to conclude that this strategy has failed. We have gone backwards ever since.

 

His strategy was to get the players and manager to commit to long-term contracts. At the time, I thought this was a very sensible idea to stop the constant loss of our players.

 

It seems pretty clear that Koeman wanted to see out the third year of his contract, then leave us for a bigger club, and Fonte wanted to move to Manchester United after winning the Euros.

 

Letting these things happen was against Les’s new strategy so he insisted Koeman extend his contract or leave immediately (and earn us a transfer fee/compensation) and Fonte was denied his one last chance to move to a top club. This destabilised many of the players.

 

In a normal business, the strategy was very sound. We didn’t want to risk players and managers running down their contracts and leaving for low transfer fees or for nothing.

 

Unfortunately, this is not a normal business, the players are pampered millionaire prima donnas! Koeman and Fonte clearly refused to act ‘professionally’ and caused trouble when they couldn’t get what they wanted.

 

Despite this, many of the other players then signed-up for long contract extensions in exchange for big pay rises without appearing to have realised that committing to longer contracts meant they were delaying their chances of getting the dream move to a big club that they feel entitled to.

 

In a functioning market, the players agents would have explained to their clients that the ‘price they were agreeing to pay’ for their big pay rises was to delay their next career move.

 

Unfortunately, the agents get bonuses every time a new contract gets signed, so they have an incentive not to explain these pitfalls to the players.

 

Keeping van Dyke this summer has clearly woken up the players on extended contracts to what they signed up for and many of them seem (unjustifiably) furious about it. I think this damaged morale is what has primarily gone wrong for us this season (that and persisting with Nathan Redmond and Fraser Forster!).

 

It’s extremely unprofessional of players to behave this way and the idea of reducing player power by getting them to commit to long contracts was a nice idea, but it has caused our team to go backwards fast since Koeman left and Les Reed has caused this. He tried to defeat player power, but is losing the battle.

 

Finally, I think it’s interesting that (apparently) the ‘non-millionaire’ staff disliked Cortese, but the millionaire players and Pochettino thought he was fantastic. I don’t think it’s a coincidence that Cortese’s background was as a Swiss banker specialising in High Net Worth Individuals (like Marcus). I’m guessing he was very good at massaging the egos of pampered millionaire prima donnas.

 

My conclusion is that our team won’t improve until the (poor unloved) players are happy. Either this means changing half the players or changing the strategy. What these players want (and feel entitled to) is for Saints to embrace being a stepping-stone club and shop window for Champions League Clubs. This strategy was working pretty well until 2016 (on reflection) and the key is the club getting a good return on investment in the form of high transfer fees and using those funds to develop and recruit suitable replacements.

 

I don’t see Les agreeing to change strategy, so I think it’s now time for a new Director of Football. I’m sure the Black Box has identified dozens of potential replacements because Les has told us the Southampton Way is bigger than any one individual!

 

Now that’s off my chest!

[Dark Munster]

It does appear that player power is now a major problem. I think it was the main reason Claude was forced out. Maybe the players want a nice pal like Eric Black in charge (competence be damned).

 

We need a seasoned manager who wont take any shit from them. And Black and Watson out.

[Ultimatt]

Les Reed deserves massive credit for his contribution to Saints over the last 7 years, but maybe it’s now time for someone else to take over with some fresh ideas and a new strategy.

 

I don’t believe the players aren’t good enough, although Mane was a huge loss obviously. Our players are better than performances suggest and our recruitment (Redmond excepted) is pretty good (Lemina, Hoedt etc). I think buying black-box bargains rather than proven ‘names’ is the only sustainable strategy for a club our size and we’ve had more hits than misses (and Les deserves great credit for establishing our recruitment infrastructure).

 

However, I think we have to accept (unfortunately) that most modern Premier League players are pampered millionaire prima donnas used to getting what they want and many of them have been very unhappy since the summer of 2016 and this has impacted on the pitch.

 

I think the reason they’re unhappy is because Les radically changed our strategy for player contracts in early 2016. I think we have to conclude that this strategy has failed. We have gone backwards ever since.

 

His strategy was to get the players and manager to commit to long-term contracts. At the time, I thought this was a very sensible idea to stop the constant loss of our players.

 

It seems pretty clear that Koeman wanted to see out the third year of his contract, then leave us for a bigger club, and Fonte wanted to move to Manchester United after winning the Euros.

 

Letting these things happen was against Les’s new strategy so he insisted Koeman extend his contract or leave immediately (and earn us a transfer fee/compensation) and Fonte was denied his one last chance to move to a top club. This destabilised many of the players.

 

In a normal business, the strategy was very sound. We didn’t want to risk players and managers running down their contracts and leaving for low transfer fees or for nothing.

 

Unfortunately, this is not a normal business, the players are pampered millionaire prima donnas! Koeman and Fonte clearly refused to act ‘professionally’ and caused trouble when they couldn’t get what they wanted.

 

Despite this, many of the other players then signed-up for long contract extensions in exchange for big pay rises without appearing to have realised that committing to longer contracts meant they were delaying their chances of getting the dream move to a big club that they feel entitled to.

 

In a functioning market, the players agents would have explained to their clients that the ‘price they were agreeing to pay’ for their big pay rises was to delay their next career move.

 

Unfortunately, the agents get bonuses every time a new contract gets signed, so they have an incentive not to explain these pitfalls to the players.

 

Keeping van Dyke this summer has clearly woken up the players on extended contracts to what they signed up for and many of them seem (unjustifiably) furious about it. I think this damaged morale is what has primarily gone wrong for us this season (that and persisting with Nathan Redmond and Fraser Forster!).

 

It’s extremely unprofessional of players to behave this way and the idea of reducing player power by getting them to commit to long contracts was a nice idea, but it has caused our team to go backwards fast since Koeman left and Les Reed has caused this. He tried to defeat player power, but is losing the battle.

 

Finally, I think it’s interesting that (apparently) the ‘non-millionaire’ staff disliked Cortese, but the millionaire players and Pochettino thought he was fantastic. I don’t think it’s a coincidence that Cortese’s background was as a Swiss banker specialising in High Net Worth Individuals (like Marcus). I’m guessing he was very good at massaging the egos of pampered millionaire prima donnas.

 

My conclusion is that our team won’t improve until the (poor unloved) players are happy. Either this means changing half the players or changing the strategy. What these players want (and feel entitled to) is for Saints to embrace being a stepping-stone club and shop window for Champions League Clubs. This strategy was working pretty well until 2016 (on reflection) and the key is the club getting a good return on investment in the form of high transfer fees and using those funds to develop and recruit suitable replacements.

 

I don’t see Les agreeing to change strategy, so I think it’s now time for a new Director of Football. I’m sure the Black Box has identified dozens of potential replacements because Les has told us the Southampton Way is bigger than any one individual!

 

Now that’s off my chest!

 

The strategy of long contracts to keep players leaving is great on the assumption that the players are wanted by big clubs.

 

Long contract extensions on players VVD/Bertrand? Great idea.

Implementing this strategy 2/3 years ago when most of our first team was wanted by big clubs? Great idea.

Implementing it now to players that are at the highest level they'll ever get? Awful.

 

The board had this great idea to tie everyone down and build a team going forward, except their timing was abysmal. What we have now is the majority of our players not good enough for CL football and on wages that other clubs won't beat, which drives out most of their incentive to perform and improve. Why work your ass off when you're already locked in for £4m/year for the next 5 years and won't be getting a better deal. What a life. Better yet, have the worst season of your career and get a 1 year contract extension when you still had 4 years left. Our boards gone mad.

 

Spurs put in the same strategy; young team, long contracts. Right now it looks to be paying dividends but that's because their players are actually quality and wanted by big clubs. IMO it's not going to stop their team getting picked apart as their players still want out but they'll get great transfer fees from the long contracts.

[ALWAYS_SFC]

Les Reed deserves massive credit for his contribution to Saints over the last 7 years, but maybe it’s now time for someone else to take over with some fresh ideas and a new strategy.

 

I don’t believe the players aren’t good enough, although Mane was a huge loss obviously. Our players are better than performances suggest and our recruitment (Redmond excepted) is pretty good (Lemina, Hoedt etc). I think buying black-box bargains rather than proven ‘names’ is the only sustainable strategy for a club our size and we’ve had more hits than misses (and Les deserves great credit for establishing our recruitment infrastructure).

 

However, I think we have to accept (unfortunately) that most modern Premier League players are pampered millionaire prima donnas used to getting what they want and many of them have been very unhappy since the summer of 2016 and this has impacted on the pitch.

 

I think the reason they’re unhappy is because Les radically changed our strategy for player contracts in early 2016. I think we have to conclude that this strategy has failed. We have gone backwards ever since.

 

His strategy was to get the players and manager to commit to long-term contracts. At the time, I thought this was a very sensible idea to stop the constant loss of our players.

 

It seems pretty clear that Koeman wanted to see out the third year of his contract, then leave us for a bigger club, and Fonte wanted to move to Manchester United after winning the Euros.

 

Letting these things happen was against Les’s new strategy so he insisted Koeman extend his contract or leave immediately (and earn us a transfer fee/compensation) and Fonte was denied his one last chance to move to a top club. This destabilised many of the players.

 

In a normal business, the strategy was very sound. We didn’t want to risk players and managers running down their contracts and leaving for low transfer fees or for nothing.

 

Unfortunately, this is not a normal business, the players are pampered millionaire prima donnas! Koeman and Fonte clearly refused to act ‘professionally’ and caused trouble when they couldn’t get what they wanted.

 

Despite this, many of the other players then signed-up for long contract extensions in exchange for big pay rises without appearing to have realised that committing to longer contracts meant they were delaying their chances of getting the dream move to a big club that they feel entitled to.

 

In a functioning market, the players agents would have explained to their clients that the ‘price they were agreeing to pay’ for their big pay rises was to delay their next career move.

 

Unfortunately, the agents get bonuses every time a new contract gets signed, so they have an incentive not to explain these pitfalls to the players.

 

Keeping van Dyke this summer has clearly woken up the players on extended contracts to what they signed up for and many of them seem (unjustifiably) furious about it. I think this damaged morale is what has primarily gone wrong for us this season (that and persisting with Nathan Redmond and Fraser Forster!).

 

It’s extremely unprofessional of players to behave this way and the idea of reducing player power by getting them to commit to long contracts was a nice idea, but it has caused our team to go backwards fast since Koeman left and Les Reed has caused this. He tried to defeat player power, but is losing the battle.

 

Finally, I think it’s interesting that (apparently) the ‘non-millionaire’ staff disliked Cortese, but the millionaire players and Pochettino thought he was fantastic. I don’t think it’s a coincidence that Cortese’s background was as a Swiss banker specialising in High Net Worth Individuals (like Marcus). I’m guessing he was very good at massaging the egos of pampered millionaire prima donnas.

 

My conclusion is that our team won’t improve until the (poor unloved) players are happy. Either this means changing half the players or changing the strategy. What these players want (and feel entitled to) is for Saints to embrace being a stepping-stone club and shop window for Champions League Clubs. This strategy was working pretty well until 2016 (on reflection) and the key is the club getting a good return on investment in the form of high transfer fees and using those funds to develop and recruit suitable replacements.

 

I don’t see Les agreeing to change strategy, so I think it’s now time for a new Director of Football. I’m sure the Black Box has identified dozens of potential replacements because Les has told us the Southampton Way is bigger than any one individual!

 

Now that’s off my chest!

 

That is a very good post

[Saint86]

That is a very good post

 

Yeah.

[eelpie]

As evidenced by that ****ing awful song that gets played before the game - we certainly are doing it "our way" and it's ****.

 

My Way OUT

[Heisenberg]

Fresh delivery of humble pie for Lesley Reed today???

[Saint86]

Fresh delivery of humble pie for Lesley Reed today???

 

I think so.

 

Frustrates me that some fans are so quick to turn on the players and/or manager; whilst leave the true head remains unscathed of any criticism.

 

The classic comment from this weekend being that James Warde Prowse isn't good enough for a Championship club; we really do have some right nob jockeys for fans.

[SKD]

I like Les, think hes done a good job with us as DOF.

 

However... He currently has way to much power at club. He's become very arrogant following the success from Koeman and I think it's probably time he steps down.

 

He won't be sacked though as he continues to make money for Kat...

[Nordic Saint]

I've never really trusted him and I doubt that the managers or players do either. He is like a cuckoo in the nest. The staff turnover since he arrived has been phenomenal. Most of our talent has disappeared to other clubs and we now seem to be left with a pool of players and coaches who are only still here because nobody else wants them: https://www.sportlineng.com/2016/07/12/les-reed-southampton-best-pool-midfielders-premier-league/

[Professor]

My humble opinion of course, but a thoroughly pointless thread trying to whip up discontent against the Board member who has overseen our rise from L1. Reed has recruited players and managers who have been good enough to be coveted by others. For a club of our size it's inevitable that some will want to move on and short of bankrupting the club people can't be forced to renew contracts. While we've been sorry that many have used us to further their careers, the club has also benefitted from the profits that have gone back into squad building. WE currently have some exceptionally good players in the squad, many who could easily be playing for top 6 teams. The team appears to be failing because ball possession isn't creating enough scoring chances, chances are not being taken, or a combination of the two. Solving this is a matter for the coaching staff who need to decide whether the problem is with individual players or with overall tactics. One thing is certain, it isn't because the Board are instructing the manager or the players how to do their jobs. If a change of personnel is needed it will be at the coaching level, not at Board level.

[Heisenberg]

I think so.

 

Frustrates me that some fans are so quick to turn on the players and/or manager; whilst leave the true head remains unscathed of any criticism.

 

The classic comment from this weekend being that James Warde Prowse isn't good enough for a Championship club; we really do have some right nob jockeys for fans.

 

The game has changed but fans have not.

 

Used to be very easy to blame the manager as they would typically be instrumental in player signings, appointing coaching team ect.

 

Now they are not - they are predominantly just coaches.

 

Nowadays if the coach isn't given the tools then the tool buyer needs to answer.

 

Will take a while for people to grasp this. Fans are generally quite slow.

[Heisenberg]

I've never really trusted him and I doubt that the managers or players do either. He is like a cuckoo in the nest. The staff turnover since he arrived has been phenomenal. Most of our talent has disappeared to other clubs and we now seem to be left with a pool of players and coaches who are only still here because nobody else wants them: https://www.sportlineng.com/2016/07/12/les-reed-southampton-best-pool-midfielders-premier-league/

 

The wages being paid now is incredible.

 

On one hand hes managed to build a very average squad.

 

The worrying thing is that the average wage is now 70k per week each. (£3m each per season on average)

 

Given the "talent" he's signed that seems incredibly high.

 

The comments about the midfield :lol: classic clueless Reed

[Nordic Saint]

Reed has been very good at the PR game, taking the credit when anything goes right at the club and deflecting the blame onto managers and players when anything goes wrong. That's why it's very hard to trust him.

[Pamplemousse]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-5047913/Premier-League-club-chiefs-plan-stop-agent-power.html

 

Three working groups based in the north, south and Midlands have been tasked with proposing ways to ensure agents cannot grow ever richer at the expense of football.

 

Those involved in the initial agent discussions include Southampton vice-chairman of football Les Reed, Crystal Palace chairman Steve Parish, Chelsea director Marina Granovskaia and Stoke chief executive Tony Scholes.

 

[Lord Duckhunter]

Reed has been very good at the PR game, taking the credit when anything goes right at the club and deflecting the blame onto managers and players when anything goes wrong. That's why it's very hard to trust him.

 

When has he ever deflected any blame. We keep getting this line trotted out, perhaps you could point me in the direction of an incident, interview or statement that proves he’s done this. Thanks

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[Doctoroncall]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-5047913/Premier-League-club-chiefs-plan-stop-agent-power.html

 

Les is vice chairman. Who is technical director? Is that Ross?

 

I see Emenalo has resigned at Chelsea. A well liked and knowledgeable bloke.

[SuperSAINT]

Les is vice chairman. Who is technical director? Is that Ross?

 

Martin Hunter

[Saint 76er]

Can someone please confirm if Les Reed is actually still alive? I do hope that nothing has happened to him, but for the Football Director of a PL team, and one performing way below the expectations of its fan base (customers), it has to be said that Les is conspicuous by his absence. He appears to only bob up a couple of times a year with a diatribe praising himself, but when things go bad where is he? Where is the leadership from anyone within the club when fans are so obviously demanding answers? They do know we exist, right?

[Heisenberg]

Can someone please confirm if Les Reed is actually still alive? I do hope that nothing has happened to him, but for the Football Director of a PL team, and one performing way below the expectations of its fan base (customers), it has to be said that Les is conspicuous by his absence. He appears to only bob up a couple of times a year with a diatribe praising himself, but when things go bad where is he? Where is the leadership from anyone within the club when fans are so obviously demanding answers? They do know we exist, right?

 

Reconcile his previous motivational performances and youll see that he really only says hello after a good run of good results.

 

Hes probably had a load of videos made the last 18 months but been unable to release due to our prolonged poor form.

 

I guess his last message was to say last season was all Puels fault (ala sacking)

[Batman]

When has he ever deflected any blame. We keep getting this line trotted out, perhaps you could point me in the direction of an incident, interview or statement that proves he’s done this. Thanks

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

He only appears during a season when in a position of strength.

You reckon Adam Blackmore or anyone can get a word from his at all at the moment? neither do i

[scotty]

He only appears during a season when in a position of strength.

You reckon Adam Blackmore or anyone can get a word from his at all at the moment? neither do i

 

He did interviews during the great clearout, and in its wake. Hardly a position of strength.

[rooney]

He only appears during a season when in a position of strength.

You reckon Adam Blackmore or anyone can get a word from his at all at the moment? neither do i

 

Perhaps Adam can organise a Fans Forum at SMS. Whatever happened to them?

[Saint86]

He did interviews during the great clearout, and in its wake. Hardly a position of strength.

 

No, but it was one of desperation.

 

"Please buy season tickets, we promise not to sell anyone"...

[Batman]

Perhaps Adam can organise a Fans Forum at SMS. Whatever happened to them?

 

they will return as soon as Cortese leaves the club.......

[shurlock]

Does the Footballers Football Show still air? Uncle Les is always good value for a wise-old-man cameo on that.

[ALWAYS_SFC]

http://www.lesreed.com/

[Heisenberg]

No, but it was one of desperation.

 

"Please buy season tickets, we promise not to sell anyone"...

 

Poch, he was comfortable with same with clyne

same with Toby (remember when we shouted about taking legal action, ffs)

 

No bids for Shaw

 

Black with international pedigree

 

Best midfield options in the country

 

Leicester have copied us

 

break through the glass ceiling and into the champions league

 

Everything is going very positively, Koeman leaves few days later

 

when he compared the black box to "Bridge of the Starship Enterprise"

 

Puel was top choice on "very impressive" Southampton shortlist

 

"the next addition will be down in reception with the trophy cabinet.”

[shurlock]

Poch, he was comfortable with same with clyne

same with Toby (remember when we shouted about taking legal action, ffs)

 

No bids for Shaw

 

Black with international pedigree

 

Best midfield options in the country

 

Leicester have copied us

 

break through the glass ceiling and into the champions league

 

Everything is going very positively, Koeman leaves few days later

 

when he compared the black box to "Bridge of the Starship Enterprise"

 

Puel was top choice on "very impressive" Southampton shortlist

 

"the next addition will be down in reception with the trophy cabinet.”

 

Where's everyone favourite "aim to be playing champions league in 5 years but important to be established as a top-six side over that period".

[Saint86]

My humble opinion of course, but a thoroughly pointless thread trying to whip up discontent against the Board member who has overseen our rise from L1. Reed has recruited players and managers who have been good enough to be coveted by others. For a club of our size it's inevitable that some will want to move on and short of bankrupting the club people can't be forced to renew contracts. While we've been sorry that many have used us to further their careers, the club has also benefitted from the profits that have gone back into squad building. WE currently have some exceptionally good players in the squad, many who could easily be playing for top 6 teams. The team appears to be failing because ball possession isn't creating enough scoring chances, chances are not being taken, or a combination of the two. Solving this is a matter for the coaching staff who need to decide whether the problem is with individual players or with overall tactics. One thing is certain, it isn't because the Board are instructing the manager or the players how to do their jobs. If a change of personnel is needed it will be at the coaching level, not at Board level.

 

You are wrong in the first sentence. Les Reed did not oversee our rise through the leagues, NC and ML did. Its a farcical claim that really needs to be laid to rest. The core of our promotion squad (and source of all our upwards momentum) was at the club before Reed ever joined saints!! And all of that core cited the importance of Cortese at some point over this period.

 

The cult of Reed really need to stop trying to take credit for the actions of those who came before him; he is bad enough at that himself. It like the claim that Les Reed took Poch to saints. Just utterly farcical rewriting of history.

 

Lallana, Hammond, Fonte, Lambert, Kelvin, Morgan, Puncheon, Harding... you can go on and on! But these players all joined saints before Les Reed or the current board. Stop claiming this man was pivotal in our rise. He wasn't.

 

His major achievements have been losing the best two managers we've had in the premier league (granted he hired one), dismantled both their teams, lied to the fanbase regarding players sales, convincing some of the fanbase that he was pivotal in our rise, and managing to take credit for everything his predecessors laid in place.

 

Not a great track record.

 

And oh, yeah, we came 6th... Imagine where we'd have come if we'd kept NC and Poch!

Edited 9 November, 2017 by Saint86

[Dangermouth]

Nicked from RAWK, so thank them if they come knocking: a bit like what Minsk does but a bit better (sorry Minsk).

 

It's the graph at the bottom of the page.

[shurlock]

Nicked from RAWK, so thank them if they come knocking: a bit like what Minsk does but a bit better (sorry Minsk).

 

It's the graph at the bottom of the page.

 

What does it show?

[Saint86]

What does it show?

 

7 clubs finishing below 38 points, with us 3rd from bottom. Why is it posted to this thread though?

https://i.imgur.com/C4obzXl.png

 

So Crystal Palace, Swansea and us to get relegated on that chap's workings. I agree with 2 of them.

Edited 9 November, 2017 by Saint86

[shurlock]

7 clubs finishing below 38 points, with us 3rd from bottom. Why is it posted to this thread though?

https://i.imgur.com/C4obzXl.png

 

So Crystal Palace, Swansea and us to get relegated on that chap's workings. I agree with 2 of them.

 

Thanks - how is it calculated?

[Saint86]

Thanks - how is it calculated?

 

Honestly, I have no real idea!

 

There is some description in the thread dangermouth posted:

https://www.redandwhitekop.com/forum/index.php?topic=336191.160

 

But skimming it is not sufficient to understand; I tried that already

[sotonist]

Honestly, I have no real idea!

 

There is some description in the thread dangermouth posted:

https://www.redandwhitekop.com/forum/index.php?topic=336191.160

 

But skimming it is not sufficient to understand; I tried that already

 

I looked at this when we were up at the top of that table a few years ago. iirc it's based on your previous years results and how you have done this season in relation to the corresponding fixtures, then extrapolated to the fixtures you have remaining.

 

sort of a table based on form.

[sotonist]

I looked at this when we were up at the top of that table a few years ago. iirc it's based on your previous years results and how you have done this season in relation to the corresponding fixtures, then extrapolated to the fixtures you have remaining.

 

sort of a table based on form.

 

edit: second thoughts might be no extrapolation. just points for exceeding your previous season's results.

 

again i'm just operating from memory. no desire to read up on it again.

[sadoldgit]

I've never really trusted him and I doubt that the managers or players do either. He is like a cuckoo in the nest. The staff turnover since he arrived has been phenomenal. Most of our talent has disappeared to other clubs and we now seem to be left with a pool of players and coaches who are only still here because nobody else wants them: https://www.sportlineng.com/2016/07/12/les-reed-southampton-best-pool-midfielders-premier-league/

 

Probably just as well nobody else wants them because if the wrist slitters are to be believed we will sell anything that moves. Don't you find it strange that people were moaning when we sold our best players and now people are moaning because no one wants them. People are even moaning now that we didn't sell Virgil in the summer. Happy days.

[sotonist]

edit: second thoughts might be no extrapolation. just points for exceeding your previous season's results.

 

again i'm just operating from memory. no desire to read up on it again.

 

well ****... it nagged my brain and my memory of it was completely wrong.

 

points based on difficulty of fixtures related to last year's finishes. yeah that's a hole in the concept. you'd have to look at their previous season's tables at the same time to see how close to the final table they got and give it a credibility score on that basis.

[Saint86]

well ****... it nagged my brain and my memory of it was completely wrong.

 

points based on difficulty of fixtures related to last year's finishes. yeah that's a hole in the concept. you'd have to look at their previous season's tables at the same time to see how close to the final table they got and give it a credibility score on that basis.

 

Cheers Sotonist, in that case I'll treat is as an indication of how our season is going vs the previous season (and I think it does provide a fair indication). However I don't think we're in for relegation just yet so will be interesting to see how the season pans out.

 

I think i vaguely recall seeing this done for saints previously, which I assume was you then? I remember it being interesting at the time.

[Dangermouth]

Right. Let’s explain the RAWK graph a bit. Longish post.

Divide the division into three: those you expect to be your direct competitors, those you expect to be in no-man’s land, and those you expect to prop up the table.

In our case we’re in the middle so it’s a case of better teams, similar teams, worse teams. You decide this simply by taking the final position of the team at the end of the season. This means that in 2 years we have gone from the top group to the middle group and (now) potentially to the bottom group so there is a slide already evident.

Now you expect to win your home games against your competitors and teams against you so doing so gets you 3 points but against your expected outcome you come up as a par result. You expect to either lose or draw against the better teams. Let’s say it’s lose to keep it simple. So we would expect from our home games to get 0 x 6 against the top 6 and 13 x 3 = 39 against the rest. Away games we expect to lose against the top 2 groups but win against the lower group. So we get 7 x 3 = 21 points. In total, 60. And that’s not a particularly good season.

Then you compare results on a like for like basis e.g. expected win against Watford = 0 against actual result = -3 points. Then you take into account the teams we’ve played and who we have to play and simply see how many expected points we get. Promoted teams replace those relegated so they automatically fall into the worst group.

So we play (remaining games only) and expect to get:

Man City – expect 0 points

Man Utd – 0 points

Spurs – 0 points

Chelsea – 0 points

Liverpool – 0 points

Arsenal – 0 points

Burnley – 3 points (remember it’s based on where they finished last season)

Brighton – 3 points

Watford – 3 points

Huddersfield – 3 points

Newcastle – 3 points

Leicester – 3 points

Stoke – 3 points

Everton – 3 points

WBA – 0 points

Bournemouth – 3 points (remember they finished on the same points as us last season)

West Ham – 0 points

Swansea – 3 points

Crystal Palace – 3 points

Total 33 points which takes us to 46 points (same as last season) but we are likely to struggle at Newcastle away, Burnley away, Swansea away at least. This could take us down to 39 points assuming we still win those games we ‘expect to’.

Now the point of the lines is to take it that 48 points should guarantee safety but the lower line is likely to be the realistic points total required to reach safety. This will change like Redslo’s points total calculations that he used to post before his job took off but we are on course for a difficult season if we can only match what we ‘expect’ to based on the above. It can change if we win a couple of away games or get a few unexpected points but we’ve already dropped points e.g.

Swansea home – dropped 2 points

Huddersfield away – dropped 2 points

Watford - dropped 3 points

Man Utd – par (expected loss against a top 6 side)

Stoke – par (expected away loss against a direct competitor)

Newcastle – dropped 2 points

West Brom – par (expected home win)

Brighton – dropped 2 points

Burnley – dropped 3 points

Total dropped points vs expected based on the above = 14. And again, that’s par, not a good season.

[Nordic Saint]

Probably just as well nobody else wants them because if the wrist slitters are to be believed we will sell anything that moves. Don't you find it strange that people were moaning when we sold our best players and now people are moaning because no one wants them. People are even moaning now that we didn't sell Virgil in the summer. Happy days.

 

Presumably 'wrist slitters', 'bedwetters' and 'entitled fans' are fans who actually care whether we win or lose and would, therefore, rather we sold our worst players and kept our best ones, rather than the other way round. I remember someone posting the club's accounts figures on here, which showed we spent more in transfer fees for players over the last 3 years than we received for those we sold so logically you would expect it to be the other way round and as a consequence for us to have a stronger squad, winning more games.

[Saint86]

Presumably 'wrist slitters', 'bedwetters' and 'entitled fans' are fans who actually care whether we win or lose and would, therefore, rather we sold our worst players and kept our best ones, rather than the other way round. I remember someone posting the club's accounts figures on here, which showed we spent more in transfer fees for players over the last 3 years than we received for those we sold so logically you would expect it to be the other way round and as a consequence for us to have a stronger squad, winning more games.

 

I remember the good old days when we could look forward to games knowing we could get points of anyone

[CB Fry]

I remember the good old days when we could look forward to games knowing we could get points of anyone

Good old days being a handful of seasons in our entire history.

[Heisenberg]

I remember the good old days when we could look forward to games knowing we could get points of anyone

 

We had started to build a decent reputation for giving the BIG boys a tough game.

 

Even our fisrt season back in the top flight we had wins over Man City, Liverpool and Chelsea.

 

Last season was the first full blank for long long time.

 

Even our relegation season (2004) we had a few wins over the big 6.

[Nordic Saint]

Good old days being a handful of seasons in our entire history.

 

We've been in the top flight for 41 of the last 50 years. We finished in the top 10 in 15 of those and our average position the top flight is 11th. We have been in the top flight more than we have been in any other division and we have also been in 14 FA Cup & League Cup semi-finals and 6 finals.

 

As our resident misery, you obviously prefer to ignore the good times.