Saints 1 Norwich 0 - For Once We Score A Late Winner!

[Whitey Grandad]

I actually thought JWP played well but by the same token also thought he would make a decent Championship player.

We could have played with a rush goalie as Harry Lewis a virtual spectator.

Respect to the 1,000 or so Norwich fans who made the trip.

What a truly awful performance from what was a Prem side last year

 

I spoke to one Norwich fan before the game. They had left Norwich at one o'clock.

[Mowgli]

@OptaJoe: 1 - Southampton have scored exactly one goal in each of their last seven home games in all competitions. Singular.

 

#wengerprotegee

[whoateallthepies]

Awful first half, one of the worst I've ever seen. Once we put Redmond and Romeu on Norwich barely got out of their half and it was only a matter of time before we scored. Thankfully it was just before the final whistle because I really didn't want to watch another 30 minutes.

 

Quick player summary:

 

Lewis - had nothing to do

Martina - awful. Slowed down play, couldn't cross, made more wrong decisions in one game than Cedric does all season.

Yoshida - decent, but relatively untroubled. A couple of bad passes, but that's par for the course

Stephens - solid enough, didn't do much wrong but had little defending to do

McQueen - got forward well, excellent cross for the goal but many other crosses were cut out by the first man

Reed - didn't do much. Game largely passed him by

Claise - A few nice passes and interceptions mixed in with some slack passes which gave away the ball

JWP - standard sideways and backwards passes. He did put in a shift though.

Sims - tried his hardest. Broke through the lines a few times with nice dribbles, had a couple of powderpuff shots.

Rodriguez - ran around a bit

Long - looked frustrated stuck out on the left, would have caused more problems if people spotted his runs

 

Romeu - drove us forward for the final 20 minutes

Redmond - ran at players, forced them back, looked threatening. Did well in the build up to the goal.

 

The perfect match summary (only cos I agree with it. Other match summaries are available). But in terms of general play, you can see how Puel wants the team to build slowly from the back with lots of possession and then go for the quick movement in the final third to open up the oppo. It's very different to the pressing game we have been used to (And typically more European IMHO). Problem is, that's the bit we're a bit crap at. Add in a lack of quality in front of goal and its not hard to see why we're struggling to win games. So either he changes the system to suit the players or he changes the players to suit the system and that's only possible with money. Seems to me that he needs to have an honest conversation with the board so that everyone is clear about the way forward.

[Saint86]

Struggling to break down a team who park the bus again, no matter what division they're in. No change there. Still need a striker.

 

If defending wasn't effective, teams wouldn't bother using it as a valid tactic. All teams struggle to break down teams that park the bus. Thats why we have the expression "park the bus".

 

But outside of that, we can't score more than once against teams that are wide bloody open. Thats the real concern.

 

Puel needs to go sadly. Its not going to improve. Not without spending big money and that means that the manager is not good enough of getting the most out of the players we have. Has to go IMHO; we are just wasting time and going backwards. One lower half table finish will undo most of the reputation we've gained in the last couple of seasons.

[Chez]

McQueen sounded like the MOTM, Wonder if you could play him and Bertrand in the same eleven.

RK played Bertrand as CB and then Targett as a totally ineffective wingback. I would suggest McQueen would do a far better job and we know Cedric is handy bombing on. That formation might help us get out of this rut as it did last year.

[Chez]

Agree about the limitations of last nights midfield, but I think you've missed the main culprit having criticised Reed and Clasie.

 

Classie is the biggest culprit in my eyes. He is a total non entity in games and offers pretty much nothing to either attack or defence. He is slow across the ground, woeful in the air, can't dribble, shoot, cross, play long balls. His touch is decent enough, but there is not enough with the ball to counter the lack of presence without it. I see one half decent pass and/or moment of pressure applied to an opponent a game and that seems to be enough for most Saints fans. At this moment in time I would pick JWP ahead of Classie, although that is saying nothing.

 

What I noticed yesterday was that we had thrtee midfielders that all pass the ball and their first though is to then drop off to give the receiving player an option. Now there is nothing wrong with that, but all three did it all the time and no one was willing to run beyond the receiving player or even level with him.

 

There were several occasions when Classie was the midfielder furthest forward and in decent positions between the lines, but he gets nose bleeds, doesn't want the ball and chose to just jog back into a deeper role. He is a limited squad player that has somehow found his way into a starting berth. We wont replace him and that is a big worry. We desperately need Hojbjerg to find his feet and solidify his game.

[Chez]

. But in terms of general play, you can see how Puel wants the team to build slowly from the back with lots of possession and then go for the quick movement in the final third to open up the oppo...Problem is, that's the bit we're a bit crap at. Add in a lack of quality in front of goal and its not hard to see why we're struggling to win games. So either he changes the system to suit the players or he changes the players to suit the system and that's only possible with money. S

 

good point. Slow build up mean defenders behind the ball all the time, so you really have to beat them with skills and tricks and stuff that the likes of Messie and Coutinho can offer. We have Boufal, when not injured, Tadic and Redmond. They do offer some tricks and ability to create something, but right now not nearly enough.

[Gunnery]

RK played Bertrand as CB and then Targett as a totally ineffective wingback. I would suggest McQueen would do a far better job and we know Cedric is handy bombing on. That formation might help us get out of this rut as it did last year.

I said on here recently that I'd like to see us try 3-5-2 again...It kick started our season last year!

[Lallana's Left Peg]

I said on here recently that I'd like to see us try 3-5-2 again...It kick started our season last year!

 

It did but the football was dire. It made us stop conceding goals and we snatched the odd one up front when we had slightly better finishing. Not sure 3-5-2 is the way to go in this case. I'd rather put one of the midfielders further forward in support of the striker and get more men in the box in addition to more of an urgency in our play.

[suewhistle]

What I noticed yesterday was that we had thrtee midfielders that all pass the ball and their first though is to then drop off to give the receiving player an option. Now there is nothing wrong with that, but all three did it all the time and no one was willing to run beyond the receiving player or even level with him.

 

That's a good observation. It's good that they don't just stand in one place after passing the ball, and I've seen plenty of that in the past when the team (any team) is playing badly. So movement is there, just not very positive movement. Maybe they feel that they don't have the pace if they burst forward and are too scared to leave space behind them, or is it just coaching. Judging by Puel's expressions and gestures I feel it may just be the players' own lack of confidence, as I'm pretty certain he doesn't want them to play _that_ safe. That's where I think Bouffal, and Sims too, the way things are going, are going to be a bit of yeast to what is a pretty heavy pudding at the moment. But if the latter open up the space the midfielders need to follow up more closely and, dare I say it, shoot occasionally?

[derry]

What a load of dross. WTF was Long doing in the left back position and stuck out wide. Three negative defensive midfielders against a makeshift Norwich team parking the bus. Martina and the midfield had countless opportunities to play the forwards through but ignored them and checked out. His crosses were poor. The team selection dictated the pattern, it turned out as toothless as expected except for us scoring, not that I wasn't relieved I didn't have to spend extra time waiting for penalties. Long was offside too often but he made some runs and the pass didn't arrive. I've got my ticket for more of the same against Arsenal but this time we'll be the team parking the bus.

[hackedoff]

WE LIMP ON

[Wes Tender]

Lay off Martina he ran more than anyone and numerous overlaps was not played in by the sideways mini midfield of Sims, JWP Clasie and Reed. Sims was awful first half I would have subbed him.

 

Martina was awful. If Koeman still wants him, I would drive him up to Everton myself. He made some overlaps rarely and when he then received the ball, his first thought was more often than not to pass it backwards or sideways. He takes too long to decide what to do and when he has made his decision, the moment has gone and the space for the pass is closed down. I don't remember him dropping his shoulder and running forwards with the ball and then putting over a decent cross. He ought to watch some videos of Cedric, Bertrand or Clyne last season to see what is required from him.

[JRM]

It's difficult to be critical of Saints as Norwich played with such negative tactics it reduced the game to Saints cautiously attacking a Norwich back 5 who were protected by deep central midfield. They offered nothing all game and were just hoping to catch is on the break.

 

Freezing cold, where i was sat in Itchen centre there was even an old lady who turned around to complain that someone was shouting too loudly, ha f*ck sake what are these people doing at live football matches if they are going to complain about someone shouting encouragement to the team, should have just turned down her hearing aid.

 

Interesting next couple of weeks, if we go out against Liverpool i think the pressure is on to still play a stronger team against Arsenal regardless of the Swansea game a few days later.

[Wes Tender]

I've got my ticket for more of the same against Arsenal but this time we'll be the team parking the bus.

 

Will we? Teams like them who like a passing and movement game suit us far better than teams like Norwich who park the bus. We can close down their players, deny them space to pass, but that doesn't mean that we need to allow them to dominate possession and the space to dictate the game.

[derry]

Will we? Teams like them who like a passing and movement game suit us far better than teams like Norwich who park the bus. We can close down their players, deny them space to pass, but that doesn't mean that we need to allow them to dominate possession and the space to dictate the game.

 

We'll just back off until we are in our own penalty area and try and break or pinch a goal from a set piece.

[Nordic Saint]

A last minute winner! The magic of the cup! And the win was all the sweeter because it was the first home game I missed this season so I didn't have to endure the awful football.

 

From the Radio Norfolk commentary and post match phone-in, it sounded as though Norwich fans thought this performance by their reserve team was even worse than their first team's 2-1 defeat to Rotherham last weekend.

[hughieslastminutegoal]

Exactly. Maybe even one new striker away from significantly more success. At the moment the problem's not with Puel.

 

People go on about how many more chances we get but don't take - so the problem is with finishing not necessarily how we play. I think back to the days of Revie's Leeds, or Graham's Arsenal who many said were boring, but they took their chances. More chances taken would give us more confidence and probably improve the overall performance.

[Lets B Avenue]

Reed, no idea what fans have been bleating on about. Slow, short (obviously, but in the smallest midfield in history it does matter) and very limited on the ball. Needs time out on loan, not the odd game here and there.

 

Agreed. We were all saying how much he has regressed since his debut against Everton. It started with that stupid sending off in the Reserve Cup Final, later that season.

 

Not quite sure how "SNSun" thought he was "composed". He certainly wasn't when he was twice running and jumping under a bouncing ball, like a demented Jack Russell. Hadn't seen that since the legend that was Lee Todd.

[Chez]

Agreed. We were all saying how much he has regressed since his debut against Everton. It started with that stupid sending off in the Reserve Cup Final, later that season.

 

Not quite sure how "SNSun" thought he was "composed". He certainly wasn't when he was twice running and jumping under a bouncing ball, like a demented Jack Russell. Hadn't seen that since the legend that was Lee Todd.

at this moment in time he looks a poor mans Ben Reeves. Still young and judging a player on a single game is folly, but I've seen all his first team outings and I'm far from convinced. Needs to be playing. No idea why we have not loaned him out.

[Whitey Grandad]

Agreed. We were all saying how much he has regressed since his debut against Everton. It started with that stupid sending off in the Reserve Cup Final, later that season.

 

Not quite sure how "SNSun" thought he was "composed". He certainly wasn't when he was twice running and jumping under a bouncing ball, like a demented Jack Russell. Hadn't seen that since the legend that was Lee Todd.

 

Yes, that was somewhat bizarre. He regularly misjudged the flight of the ball which then landed a yard or two behind him.

[Whitey Grandad]

People go on about how many more chances we get but don't take - so the problem is with finishing not necessarily how we play. I think back to the days of Revie's Leeds, or Graham's Arsenal who many said were boring, but they took their chances. More chances taken would give us more confidence and probably improve the overall performance.

 

Chances were not very common last night. Against ten packed into the penalty area there was not a lot that we could do.

[John Boy Saint]

Chances were not very common last night. Against ten packed into the penalty area there was not a lot that we could do.

But when they did come the ball was kicked like it would explode with a very scary bang if hit too hard!

[Whitey Grandad]

But when they did come the ball was kicked like it would explode with a very scary bang if hit too hard!

 

Clubbed rather than kicked.

[austsaint]

Classie is the biggest culprit in my eyes. He is a total non entity in games and offers pretty much nothing to either attack or defence. He is slow across the ground, woeful in the air, can't dribble, shoot, cross, play long balls. His touch is decent enough, but there is not enough with the ball to counter the lack of presence without it. I see one half decent pass and/or moment of pressure applied to an opponent a game and that seems to be enough for most Saints fans. At this moment in time I would pick JWP ahead of Classie, although that is saying nothing.

 

What I noticed yesterday was that we had thrtee midfielders that all pass the ball and their first though is to then drop off to give the receiving player an option. Now there is nothing wrong with that, but all three did it all the time and no one was willing to run beyond the receiving player or even level with him.

 

There were several occasions when Classie was the midfielder furthest forward and in decent positions between the lines, but he gets nose bleeds, doesn't want the ball and chose to just jog back into a deeper role. He is a limited squad player that has somehow found his way into a starting berth. We wont replace him and that is a big worry. We desperately need Hojbjerg to find his feet and solidify his game.

 

Clasie has certainly been a disappointment given his status and reputation when Koeman signed him. Just the same your description in the first part of your post could equally apply to Ward-Prowse ie nothing much in defence or attack, slow across the ground, woeful in the air etc. There have been games where Clasie has got stuck in defensively and produced attacking passes but as you say overall he hasn't lived up to expectation. One of the things that does my head in with JWP is the recent pattern of squaring a nothing pass and then sprinting into the box as if he's Austin or Pelle???

 

Hojbjerg on the other hand has shown that he can be the box-to-box midfielder we need, with the capacity to make driving runs with the ball and contribute defensively - it's just that he's gone backwards in the last month or so with the Bournmouth game an example....shocking first half but a much better second stanza. What we are left with though is a midfield relying too much on Romeu and the ageing legs of Davis. The midfield deficiencies plus the threadbare striker ranks well explain this season's mediocrity, irrespective of Puel's role.

[kitch]

Clasie has certainly been a disappointment given his status and reputation when Koeman signed him. Just the same your description in the first part of your post could equally apply to Ward-Prowse ie nothing much in defence or attack, slow across the ground, woeful in the air etc. There have been games where Clasie has got stuck in defensively and produced attacking passes but as you say overall he hasn't lived up to expectation. One of the things that does my head in with JWP is the recent pattern of squaring a nothing pass and then sprinting into the box as if he's Austin or Pelle???

 

Hojbjerg on the other hand has shown that he can be the box-to-box midfielder we need, with the capacity to make driving runs with the ball and contribute defensively - it's just that he's gone backwards in the last month or so with the Bournmouth game an example....shocking first half but a much better second stanza. What we are left with though is a midfield relying too much on Romeu and the ageing legs of Davis. The midfield deficiencies plus the threadbare striker ranks well explain this season's mediocrity, irrespective of Puel's role.

 

Agree with that, especially the Hojbjerg comments. I thought he oozed class and quality when he first played, but he does seem to have regressed. Could that be down to all the rotation? i.e. he doesn't get a chance to get a string of games together?

[Pass the Dutchie]

Lots of games, lots of rotation. Many of the players still get to play a game every week, so the 'lack of rhythm' thing seems to be not as valid as when the same amount of rotation would happen in a period of fewer games (obviously).

[Whitey Grandad]

Lots of games, lots of rotation. Many of the players still get to play a game every week, so the 'lack of rhythm' thing seems to be not as valid as when the same amount of rotation would happen in a period of fewer games (obviously).

 

Puel has never played the same team in two successive games. We are never going to get a fluid coherent team until we stop rotating.

[Chez]

Agree with that, especially the Hojbjerg comments. I thought he oozed class and quality when he first played, but he does seem to have regressed. Could that be down to all the rotation? i.e. he doesn't get a chance to get a string of games together?

Didn't seen to get enough game time when he looked good and then when he did he fell short and was effectively dropped, although still getting the odd UEFA game. Badly need him to come good. We can't continue to rely on Romeu to carry Classie, JWP and Hojbjerg.

[Chez]

Puel has never played the same team in two successive games. We are never going to get a fluid coherent team until we stop rotating.

 

If we go out of both cups I would expect you will get that wish.

[Whitey Grandad]

If we go out of both cups I would expect you will get that wish.

 

Yes. It seems a strange logic. In order to succeed we shall have to have failed. At least we shall then find out if the man has it in him to develop a team playing in the traditional Southampton way.

 

Setting aside the players for a moment, it must be very difficult for Claude on a personal level to handle all these games all over the place. He can hardly ever be at home and his poor wife cannot have found it easy living in a strange country with no family or friends. It also means that he hasn't had a consistent period at Staplewood to work on his ambitions.

[Graffito]

Yes. It seems a strange logic. In order to succeed we shall have to have failed. At least we shall then find out if the man has it in him to develop a team playing in the traditional Southampton way.

 

Setting aside the players for a moment, it must be very difficult for Claude on a personal level to handle all these games all over the place. He can hardly ever be at home and his poor wife cannot have found it easy living in a strange country with no family or friends. It also means that he hasn't had a consistent period at Staplewood to work on his ambitions.

 

TBH I feel a little bit sorry for the bloke. Aside from the lack of time he's had to prepare teams for matches and get his ideas across you wonder whether there is a communications problem, either with having to go through Black or with his language skills. I read that he works such long hours he hasn't found time for language lessons. I think he should have found time for language lessons. Communication is vital, including with the media so as to keep us whinging fans on side. The likes of Koeman understood only too well the benefits of promoting your "personal brand" before moving on to the next "project". In a way I respect that Puel has devoted his time to the squad and appears to have little time for PR. I feel the club could help him out a bit there.

[St_Tel49]

TBH I feel a little bit sorry for the bloke. Aside from the lack of time he's had to prepare teams for matches and get his ideas across you wonder whether there is a communications problem, either with having to go through Black or with his language skills. I read that he works such long hours he hasn't found time for language lessons. I think he should have found time for language lessons. Communication is vital, including with the media so as to keep us whinging fans on side. The likes of Koeman understood only too well the benefits of promoting your "personal brand" before moving on to the next "project". In a way I respect that Puel has devoted his time to the squad and appears to have little time for PR. I feel the club could help him out a bit there.

 

This.