9-3 Posted 13 January, 2017 Share Posted 13 January, 2017 First there was Oscar, yesterday Payet, today Costa. The Chinese are coming. Maybe in the long, long term it could be good for the English game, let all the foreigners go off to China and stay there. They, in the first place came to the Premier League for the money, so let the mercenaries sod off to China and let's bring the British players through. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DuncanRG Posted 13 January, 2017 Share Posted 13 January, 2017 They are going to eat into the market more and more and are likely to dominate if it's sustained for long enough. But if all the best players go there, that is likely to include Englishmen. We'd all like to see more British players in the top flight but ultimately most people, myself included, want to see high quality football, so I wouldn't crack out the champagne. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heisenberg Posted 13 January, 2017 Share Posted 13 January, 2017 Its a government lead vision and will be interesting to watch it all unfold... Nice to see teams, BIG teams like Chelsea and Arsenal being unsettled like this TBH. Welcome to our world Will probably lead to the European super league as BIG teams simply wont just bend over and accept defeat without a fight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greenridge Posted 13 January, 2017 Share Posted 13 January, 2017 First there was Oscar, yesterday Payet, today Costa. The Chinese are coming. Maybe in the long, long term it could be good for the English game, let all the foreigners go off to China and stay there. They, in the first place came to the Premier League for the money, so let the mercenaries sod off to China and let's bring the British players through. Payet wants to go to Marseille, just near China. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 13 January, 2017 Share Posted 13 January, 2017 Good! Let's hope all these greedy, mercenary players clear off there and the celebrity managers with them . Then the sky money starts to disappear and it all implodes. The premier league is full of helmet players, helmet managers, helmet referees, watched by helmet fans run by helmets. Maybe if all the "stars" clear off to china and the TV money dries up then clubs will start valuing the fans a bit more and we'll have players that don't throw strops like a teenage girl on her first period. Hopefully this will also spell an end to the fancy dress, wacky, mars bar on his head bantersaurusrexes that seem to attach themselves to football these days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goatboy Posted 13 January, 2017 Share Posted 13 January, 2017 Good! Let's hope all these greedy, mercenary players clear off there and the celebrity managers with them . Then the sky money starts to disappear and it all implodes. The premier league is full of helmet players, helmet managers, helmet referees, watched by helmet fans run by helmets. Maybe if all the "stars" clear off to china and the TV money dries up then clubs will start valuing the fans a bit more and we'll have players that don't throw strops like a teenage girl on her first period. Hopefully this will also spell an end to the fancy dress, wacky, mars bar on his head bantersaurusrexes that seem to attach themselves to football these days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Katalinic Posted 13 January, 2017 Share Posted 13 January, 2017 Good! Let's hope all these greedy, mercenary players clear off there and the celebrity managers with them . Then the sky money starts to disappear and it all implodes. The premier league is full of helmet players, helmet managers, helmet referees, watched by helmet fans run by helmets. Maybe if all the "stars" clear off to china and the TV money dries up then clubs will start valuing the fans a bit more and we'll have players that don't throw strops like a teenage girl on her first period. Hopefully this will also spell an end to the fancy dress, wacky, mars bar on his head bantersaurusrexes that seem to attach themselves to football these days. Would it also spell the end of mongboard forum "characters"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doddisalegend Posted 13 January, 2017 Share Posted 13 January, 2017 How long can the Chinese league afford the kind of spending they are currently pursuing . I mean from what I can work out the league itself makes no money (they can't even fill their grounds) and I doubt there is big TV markets all over the world to exploit financial. I wouldn't lose any sleep over Sky and the PL ****ing off out of English football I just think China has its work cut out overtaking the PL as the worlds biggest football brand right now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pass the Dutchie Posted 13 January, 2017 Share Posted 13 January, 2017 Chinese Super League rules say a team is allowed to use a maximum of four foreign players on the field each game. There are 16 teams. This means a maximum of 64 foreign players could feature each matchday. It could have an impact, but there'll be enough players left, I'd think. Certainly also because not everyone would like to live and play in China. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGTL Posted 13 January, 2017 Share Posted 13 January, 2017 Chinese Super League rules say a team is allowed to use a maximum of four foreign players on the field each game. There are 16 teams. This means a maximum of 64 foreign players could feature each matchday. It could have an impact, but there'll be enough players left, I'd think. Certainly also because not everyone would like to live and play in China. I think I could manage it for a year on £500k a week Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lickierambert Posted 13 January, 2017 Share Posted 13 January, 2017 Excuse my ignorance but how do the Chinese owners expect to make money out of it? English clubs can pay big transfer fees/wages because of TV money and large competition fees/merchandising. Is the expectation to sell loads of Diego Costa branded stuff to the locals and TV packages, or is it simply a play thing for the mega rich? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pass the Dutchie Posted 13 January, 2017 Share Posted 13 January, 2017 I think I could manage it for a year on £500k a week Even if just for two weeks. I'd be there, no doubt. Too bad I can't kick a ball for ****. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 13 January, 2017 Share Posted 13 January, 2017 Would it also spell the end of mongboard forum "characters"? I'm serious. I'm absolutely sick to death of turning on the radio and hearing what "Jurgen" has said, or what Pep is doing or what Jose thinks. Bellend players earning 80 grand a week and refusing to do their jobs. Listening to pundits talk about which players one of the big five or six clubs so sign, how brilliant a 10 yard sideways pass was by Rooney. All the absolute cockend fans who follow these clubs but have never been within a hundred miles of the cities they play in, but wear the overpriced shirt and pay their sky subscription and talk about what "we" are doing and who "we" should be signing. How a defeat is softened by the knowledge that at least have got "zlatan" in their fantasy team. Go to china the lot of you and good riddance and take your celebrity refs, pundits, sh*t generic songs, banter, fancy dress, fantasy football and everything else with you! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angelman Posted 13 January, 2017 Share Posted 13 January, 2017 Well the PL "ruined" football with all the money that suddenly came in, so they can hardly whinge when someone else comes in with even more money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angelman Posted 13 January, 2017 Share Posted 13 January, 2017 I'm serious. I'm absolutely sick to death of turning on the radio and hearing what "Jurgen" has said, or what Pep is doing or what Jose thinks. Bellend players earning 80 grand a week and refusing to do their jobs. Listening to pundits talk about which players one of the big five or six clubs so sign, how brilliant a 10 yard sideways pass was by Rooney. All the absolute cockend fans who follow these clubs but have never been within a hundred miles of the cities they play in, but wear the overpriced shirt and pay their sky subscription and talk about what "we" are doing and who "we" should be signing. How a defeat is softened by the knowledge that at least have got "zlatan" in their fantasy team. Go to china the lot of you and good riddance and take your celebrity refs, pundits, sh*t generic songs, banter, fancy dress, fantasy football and everything else with you! Have to say, find it hard to disagree with any of this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cartman Posted 13 January, 2017 Share Posted 13 January, 2017 I'm serious. I'm absolutely sick to death of turning on the radio and hearing what "Jurgen" has said, or what Pep is doing or what Jose thinks. Bellend players earning 80 grand a week and refusing to do their jobs. Listening to pundits talk about which players one of the big five or six clubs so sign, how brilliant a 10 yard sideways pass was by Rooney. All the absolute cockend fans who follow these clubs but have never been within a hundred miles of the cities they play in, but wear the overpriced shirt and pay their sky subscription and talk about what "we" are doing and who "we" should be signing. How a defeat is softened by the knowledge that at least have got "zlatan" in their fantasy team. Go to china the lot of you and good riddance and take your celebrity refs, pundits, sh*t generic songs, banter, fancy dress, fantasy football and everything else with you! More! More! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cartman Posted 13 January, 2017 Share Posted 13 January, 2017 Chinese Super League rules say a team is allowed to use a maximum of four foreign players on the field each game. There are 16 teams. This means a maximum of 64 foreign players could feature each matchday. It could have an impact, but there'll be enough players left, I'd think. Certainly also because not everyone would like to live and play in China. Five actually, but at least one has to be from the AFC, so there are loads of australians there. Makes sense that they might be interested in Yoshi, I can't think of a better AFC CB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angelman Posted 13 January, 2017 Share Posted 13 January, 2017 But no foreign goalies are allowed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goatboy Posted 13 January, 2017 Share Posted 13 January, 2017 I'm serious. I'm absolutely sick to death of turning on the radio and hearing what "Jurgen" has said, or what Pep is doing or what Jose thinks. Bellend players earning 80 grand a week and refusing to do their jobs. Listening to pundits talk about which players one of the big five or six clubs so sign, how brilliant a 10 yard sideways pass was by Rooney. All the absolute cockend fans who follow these clubs but have never been within a hundred miles of the cities they play in, but wear the overpriced shirt and pay their sky subscription and talk about what "we" are doing and who "we" should be signing. How a defeat is softened by the knowledge that at least have got "zlatan" in their fantasy team. Go to china the lot of you and good riddance and take your celebrity refs, pundits, sh*t generic songs, banter, fancy dress, fantasy football and everything else with you! :lol:I'm with Turks. You can stick your f*cking kiddy video games up your stat ridden arses too! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dig Dig Posted 13 January, 2017 Share Posted 13 January, 2017 I'm serious. I'm absolutely sick to death of turning on the radio and hearing what "Jurgen" has said, or what Pep is doing or what Jose thinks. Bellend players earning 80 grand a week and refusing to do their jobs. Listening to pundits talk about which players one of the big five or six clubs so sign, how brilliant a 10 yard sideways pass was by Rooney. All the absolute cockend fans who follow these clubs but have never been within a hundred miles of the cities they play in, but wear the overpriced shirt and pay their sky subscription and talk about what "we" are doing and who "we" should be signing. How a defeat is softened by the knowledge that at least have got "zlatan" in their fantasy team. Go to china the lot of you and good riddance and take your celebrity refs, pundits, sh*t generic songs, banter, fancy dress, fantasy football and everything else with you! Did I not read on here something about a bloke in the 80's who would turn up to the Dell with celery sticks and everyone would go mental and sing a song? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aintforever Posted 13 January, 2017 Share Posted 13 January, 2017 I think it's great. It will be fantastic watching the clubs that traditionally poach our players getting a tast of their own medicine. They are only here for the money anyway so going China is no different. Hopefully Sanchez and Coutinho will be next, will be great to watch the ****** glory supporters of Arsenal and Liverpool cry like babies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisPY Posted 13 January, 2017 Share Posted 13 January, 2017 It's just going to add another level to the chain. Not sure it makes any difference to us. Our best players will still go to the bigger clubs in England with a few bypassing that and going straight to China. Nice to see the big English clubs on the back foot but it's just more money being pumped into certain clubs that will increase the gap in the levels. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patrick Bateman Posted 13 January, 2017 Share Posted 13 January, 2017 :lol:I'm with Turks. You can stick your f*cking kiddy video games up your stat ridden arses too! Massively agree too. There's not much more I can add to this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The9 Posted 13 January, 2017 Share Posted 13 January, 2017 Good! Let's hope all these greedy, mercenary players clear off there and the celebrity managers with them . Then the sky money starts to disappear and it all implodes. The premier league is full of helmet players, helmet managers, helmet referees, watched by helmet fans run by helmets. Maybe if all the "stars" clear off to china and the TV money dries up then clubs will start valuing the fans a bit more and we'll have players that don't throw strops like a teenage girl on her first period. Hopefully this will also spell an end to the fancy dress, wacky, mars bar on his head bantersaurusrexes that seem to attach themselves to football these days. Tbh you could always watch the Northern Premier, that's got a lot of the characteristics of ye olde association football. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The9 Posted 13 January, 2017 Share Posted 13 January, 2017 I'm serious. I'm absolutely sick to death of turning on the radio and hearing what "Jurgen" has said, or what Pep is doing or what Jose thinks. Bellend players earning 80 grand a week and refusing to do their jobs. Listening to pundits talk about which players one of the big five or six clubs so sign, how brilliant a 10 yard sideways pass was by Rooney. All the absolute cockend fans who follow these clubs but have never been within a hundred miles of the cities they play in, but wear the overpriced shirt and pay their sky subscription and talk about what "we" are doing and who "we" should be signing. How a defeat is softened by the knowledge that at least have got "zlatan" in their fantasy team. Go to china the lot of you and good riddance and take your celebrity refs, pundits, sh*t generic songs, banter, fancy dress, fantasy football and everything else with you! I had the pleasure of listening to Radio 5's coverage of the Saints v Liverpool post-match. The word "Southampton" was mentioned precisely once in half an hour. It was astonishing, yet so predictable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whelk Posted 13 January, 2017 Share Posted 13 January, 2017 They are going to eat into the market more and more and are likely to dominate if it's sustained for long enough. But if all the best players go there, that is likely to include Englishmen. We'd all like to see more British players in the top flight but ultimately most people, myself included, want to see high quality football, so I wouldn't crack out the champagne. Most English players would struggle to settle I'd think. Even with their xboxes, scaletrix and a golf course. Can't see many getting on with language and no dressing room banter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whelk Posted 13 January, 2017 Share Posted 13 January, 2017 :lol:I'm with Turks. You can stick your f*cking kiddy video games up your stat ridden arses too! Stats annoy me more than anything else. Especially as I find myself getting sucked into the bs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lighthouse Posted 13 January, 2017 Share Posted 13 January, 2017 Not often I agree with Turks but I think that muppet with the red and white face paints and the hat may have pushed me over the edge. Of all the role models to aspire to, that manky tramp, Westwood. That and some gimp from Winchester rubbing my nose in it when we lost 6-1 against Liverpool last year. Probably never been within 50 miles of Anfield but apparently, "we kicked your arse". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whelk Posted 13 January, 2017 Share Posted 13 January, 2017 Not often I agree with Turks but I think that muppet with the red and white face paints and the hat may have pushed me over the edge. Of all the role models to aspire to, that manky tramp, Westwood. That and some gimp from Winchester rubbing my nose in it when we lost 6-1 against Liverpool last year. Probably never been within 50 miles of Anfield but apparently, "we kicked your arse". Plastic fans isn't a PL thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whelk Posted 13 January, 2017 Share Posted 13 January, 2017 Is Chinese league broadcast in UK anywhere? Assume standard in like the conference with the odd star Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pass the Dutchie Posted 14 January, 2017 Share Posted 14 January, 2017 Is Chinese league broadcast in UK anywhere? Assume standard in like the conference with the odd star According to Wikipedia it's on SKy Sports 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angelman Posted 14 January, 2017 Share Posted 14 January, 2017 Most English players would struggle to settle I'd think. Even with their xboxes, scaletrix and a golf course. Can't see many getting on with language and no dressing room banter. And the family situation as well. Pelle's Mrs apparently didn't like it there. I wonder whether players will do 1 year or maybe 2 before coming back to Europe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Albert Posted 14 January, 2017 Share Posted 14 January, 2017 This business model currently employed by the Chinese league surely cannot be financially sustainable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angelman Posted 14 January, 2017 Share Posted 14 January, 2017 It is sustainable when you have the backing and blessing of President Xi who is pouring billions into the game so that they can dominate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shance Posted 14 January, 2017 Share Posted 14 January, 2017 It's not sustainable at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hutch Posted 14 January, 2017 Share Posted 14 January, 2017 Excuse my ignorance but how do the Chinese owners expect to make money out of it? English clubs can pay big transfer fees/wages because of TV money and large competition fees/merchandising. Is the expectation to sell loads of Diego Costa branded stuff to the locals and TV packages, or is it simply a play thing for the mega rich? Nothing more than idle speculation on my part, but I doubt if the selling clubs are collecting the transfer fees in the local Yuan, or the players being paid their wages in the local currency eiher. There is a huge witchhunt in China at the moment to get government control of illicit currency dealing and transfers. So my guess is that the payments are made in hard currency, probably US$$$$$$$, from dodgy accounts around the world that the authorities don't know about, and the revenues earned in China through ownership of the player, and all the commercial spin-offs that go with that, are legitimate and declareable to the authorities. It's been done before, and as our neighbours (remember them?) know, it doesn't end well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angelman Posted 14 January, 2017 Share Posted 14 January, 2017 It's not sustainable at all. It most certainly is, up until the the time government backing stops. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Katalinic Posted 14 January, 2017 Share Posted 14 January, 2017 I'm serious. I'm absolutely sick to death of turning on the radio and hearing what "Jurgen" has said, or what Pep is doing or what Jose thinks. Bellend players earning 80 grand a week and refusing to do their jobs. Listening to pundits talk about which players one of the big five or six clubs so sign, how brilliant a 10 yard sideways pass was by Rooney. All the absolute cockend fans who follow these clubs but have never been within a hundred miles of the cities they play in, but wear the overpriced shirt and pay their sky subscription and talk about what "we" are doing and who "we" should be signing. How a defeat is softened by the knowledge that at least have got "zlatan" in their fantasy team. Go to china the lot of you and good riddance and take your celebrity refs, pundits, sh*t generic songs, banter, fancy dress, fantasy football and everything else with you! I don't disagree with any of this! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ivan Katalinic's 'tache Posted 14 January, 2017 Share Posted 14 January, 2017 As I said on another thread yesterday, I'm finding it quite amusing watching what mega money can do to unsettle even our own biggest clubs and their star players. It's what's always happened to most so-called lesser clubs in the league and it's nice to see them get their turn now and to see how they react. It's also interesting to see which of their badge kissing stars are the first to want away when mega money is waved under their nose. It'll always happen to us; it's nice to know it may start to happen to the Uniteds & Chelseas of the world soon, too. Anyways, during the course of this post, I've received an uber money offer to spout nonsense on a Chinese forum, so I'll be seeing ya... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dalek2003 Posted 14 January, 2017 Share Posted 14 January, 2017 Real football (in the top division) began to disappear from 92 onwards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heisenberg Posted 14 January, 2017 Share Posted 14 January, 2017 Wish our government would stop giving cash to medicine and health care and unemployment and pump the cash into the premier league instead Will look carefully at party policies next time Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wurzel Posted 14 January, 2017 Share Posted 14 January, 2017 I'm serious. I'm absolutely sick to death of turning on the radio and hearing what "Jurgen" has said, or what Pep is doing or what Jose thinks. Bellend players earning 80 grand a week and refusing to do their jobs. Listening to pundits talk about which players one of the big five or six clubs so sign, how brilliant a 10 yard sideways pass was by Rooney. All the absolute cockend fans who follow these clubs but have never been within a hundred miles of the cities they play in, but wear the overpriced shirt and pay their sky subscription and talk about what "we" are doing and who "we" should be signing. How a defeat is softened by the knowledge that at least have got "zlatan" in their fantasy team. Go to china the lot of you and good riddance and take your celebrity refs, pundits, sh*t generic songs, banter, fancy dress, fantasy football and everything else with you! You, Sir, have a way with words. Couldn't have but it better myself. 100% in agreement (except for the fantasy football bit, that's the only thing tat makes MotD bearable nowadays) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angelman Posted 14 January, 2017 Share Posted 14 January, 2017 For some reason it amuses me when cockneys or southwestern folk ring up phone ins and say that they support Liverpool. I do think that there should be some personal connection (for English people) to the English club they support - that's just me though and people can support who they want. When a Brummie calls in, they generally support a Brummie team. Same with the north east. And then there are those that seem to swap teams on a season basis!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lighthouse Posted 14 January, 2017 Share Posted 14 January, 2017 For some reason it amuses me when cockneys or southwestern folk ring up phone ins and say that they support Liverpool. I do think that there should be some personal connection (for English people) to the English club they support - that's just me though and people can support who they want. When a Brummie calls in, they generally support a Brummie team. Same with the north east. And then there are those that seem to swap teams on a season basis!! My favourite was after we spanked Arsenal (I forget which time) there was some Gooner being interviewed on that fans TV show they do. Kept going on about 'Jurgen Klaaaaaap' in a thick Bristolian accent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Window Cleaner Posted 14 January, 2017 Share Posted 14 January, 2017 Payet wants to go to Marseille, just near China. Dirty, violent and corrupt....you can see why anyone could mistake the two. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SFCRedandWhite Posted 14 January, 2017 Share Posted 14 January, 2017 Its quite simple the reason why so much money is being thrown at football in China - a population of over a billion is a huge potential market. Whether they are going about it in the right way we wont know for a few years - it isn't sustainable to continue throwing money around like they are, it needs to be accompanied by development of homegrown players to some extent. For the time being its certainly entertaining to see the top clubs get a taste of their own medicine Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ericb Posted 14 January, 2017 Share Posted 14 January, 2017 I'm serious. I'm absolutely sick to death of turning on the radio and hearing what "Jurgen" has said, or what Pep is doing or what Jose thinks. Bellend players earning 80 grand a week and refusing to do their jobs. Listening to pundits talk about which players one of the big five or six clubs so sign, how brilliant a 10 yard sideways pass was by Rooney. All the absolute cockend fans who follow these clubs but have never been within a hundred miles of the cities they play in, but wear the overpriced shirt and pay their sky subscription and talk about what "we" are doing and who "we" should be signing. How a defeat is softened by the knowledge that at least have got "zlatan" in their fantasy team. Go to china the lot of you and good riddance and take your celebrity refs, pundits, sh*t generic songs, banter, fancy dress, fantasy football and everything else with you! Absolutely spot on, i couldn't put it any better myself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ultimatt Posted 15 January, 2017 Share Posted 15 January, 2017 Can draw parallel's to the Indian Premier League. Similar population, a sport that gets way better TV ratings than football does in China, and yet still most of the franchises are losing money. Not sure these Chinese team owners have a chance in hell to make their money back directly through the football. Maybe that networking thing that was touched on earlier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SW5 SAINT Posted 15 January, 2017 Share Posted 15 January, 2017 I'm serious. I'm absolutely sick to death of turning on the radio and hearing what "Jurgen" has said, or what Pep is doing or what Jose thinks. Bellend players earning 80 grand a week and refusing to do their jobs. Listening to pundits talk about which players one of the big five or six clubs so sign, how brilliant a 10 yard sideways pass was by Rooney. All the absolute cockend fans who follow these clubs but have never been within a hundred miles of the cities they play in, but wear the overpriced shirt and pay their sky subscription and talk about what "we" are doing and who "we" should be signing. How a defeat is softened by the knowledge that at least have got "zlatan" in their fantasy team. Go to china the lot of you and good riddance and take your celebrity refs, pundits, sh*t generic songs, banter, fancy dress, fantasy football and everything else with you! Hear Hear, and I imagine once the Chinese Super league has sucked in all the star players, the tv money will follow. I'm also wondering if the collapse in the value of Sterling against all the other major currencies is having it's effect on players wages now? Players who negotiated contracts when the pound was trading 20% higher! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John B Posted 16 January, 2017 Share Posted 16 January, 2017 http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/38636082 Chinese Super League reduces number of foreign players allowed to play Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now