Losing Cork does it Matter?

[John B]

People were upset last week when Cork went to Watford.

 

 

But now we have Saeijs who seems to have a physical presence will Cork be seriously missed in defence I know he was more than a decent player but not a CB perhaps

 

In the summer Wright was not signed and fans were disappointed but Davis has been awesome.

[Thedelldays]

of course it matters..if he was one of our best players then we will miss him....we did win and I am happy..but by the sounds of it...it could have easily been another story..

 

but today, the lads did well and I will take wins no matter how they come

[ottery st mary]

Champers to-day....Drink from the bottle the cork has been thrown away......more of the same next week.

 

COYR

[um pahars]

Personally yes.

 

With the exception of Davies he was our best player for the first half of the season, so unless his replacement can live up to that, then I would rather he was still here.

 

Additionally, I also preferred him when he was centre of the park any way.

 

We've been lacking a presence at centre half for the whole season (and that includes when Cork played there) so I'm happy we have tried to address that situation. Hopefully Size can fill the gap.

[Plumstead_Saint]

People were upset last week when Cork went to Watford.

 

 

But now we have Saeijs who seems to have a physical presence will Cork be seriously missed in defence I know he was more than a decent player but not a CB perhaps

 

In the summer Wright was not signed and fans were disappointed but Davis has been awesome.

Don't you think you are jumping the gun a bit - after ONE game?

I'd like to think you were right, but opinions of Cork were not based on a single performance.

Agree about Kelvin though - what a star.

[ALWAYS_SFC]

Don't you think you are jumping the gun a bit - after ONE game?

I'd like to think you were right, but opinions of Cork were not based on a single performance.

Agree about Kelvin though - what a star.

 

Ignore John B he just loves to justify all Lowe`s decisions.

[graymalkin33]

He was good. Not great.

Shame he went to Watford rather then someone else. Id rather he were playing for us or someone higher up the league than Watford. But hey beggers cant be choosers.

[John B]

Ignore John B he just loves to justify all Lowe`s decisions.

 

I put it on for a discussion that is what a forum is for

 

I just thought we may not have got a large CB if Cork had not gone and wondered if others agreed

 

But as you mention it not all of SFC's decisions are wrong some are some are not.

Edited 10 January, 2009 by John B

[ALWAYS_SFC]

I put it on for a discussion

 

But as you mention it not all of SFC's decisions are wrong some are some are not.

 

Letting Cork go clearly is..

 

He is a good player and will be a big loss.

[ottery st mary]

John oh oh John...Why oh why do you do this to Saints supporters...Enjoy the win..us Saints supporters are as happy as pigs in Loweys pig ****.

 

You and a few of the special ones on here...not really interested in the results we have been seeking..

 

A better man than Lowey would have allowed JP to bring in sum big guy like one size way back when.....Maybe your man has been told to take a back seat and let the coach/s have a go.

 

If your a true Saints fan enjoy the football and forget yer man Lowey he has never supported or cared for Saints....HE does not get the glow most of us fans have to-day after this result...Hope you get that feel other than Loweys.

 

Happy new YEAR jOHN

[CHAPEL END CHARLIE]

Cork's certainly a promising young player but hardly the junior Bobby Moore some on here believe , no one's irreplaceable - unless your names Matt LeTissier that is .

[John B]

John oh oh John...Why oh why do you do this to Saints supporters...Enjoy the win..us Saints supporters are as happy as pigs in Loweys pig ****.

 

You and a few of the special ones on here...not really interested in the results we have been seeking..

 

A better man than Lowey would have allowed JP to bring in sum big guy like one size way back when.....Maybe your man has been told to take a back seat and let the coach/s have a go.

 

If your a true Saints fan enjoy the football and forget yer man Lowey he has never supported or cared for Saints....HE does not get the glow most of us fans have to-day after this result...Hope you get that feel other than Loweys.

 

Happy new YEAR jOHN

 

And to you Mary

 

Not bad so far I think

 

Where do you think Lallana fits into the team if he is not transfered

[ottery st mary]

And to you Mary

 

Not bad so far I think

 

Where do you think Lallana fits into the team if he is not transfered

 

John...Firstly I get fed up and angry that when we win we still have the Lowey gang only gloating as if Lowey orchestrated the win...He did not...by some good play by the team some luck and whatever else...We are in the main not interested in Lowey....We reserve our attention for him when we are losing.#

Enjoy the day with us...Few and Far between. You know what the vast majority want on here from our beloved Saints....We do not need Lowey gloating..that is our preserve.

 

Adam Lallana to me is still a great flourishing talent and if used correctly would be an asset to the side/squad.....He has been misused by some poor coaches/Lowey.

To-day hopefully the coach is going to perservere with what we have been crying out for...Experience at the front and in the middle at the back.

 

2 more good experienced pros needed.

I am sure others will go.

Loans in very important with right selections/srategy/substitutions AND

Lowey to stay away from the footballteam/coaches...Totally old fashioned football from now and for the rest of the season.

 

Tell Lowey to stay away and we have half a chance.

 

By the way prefer if you would call me Gladys.

[John B]

John...Firstly I get fed up and angry that when we win we still have the Lowey gang only gloating as if Lowey orchestrated the win...He did not...by some good play by the team some luck and whatever else...We are in the main not interested in Lowey....We reserve our attention for him when we are losing.#

Enjoy the day with us...Few and Far between. You know what the vast majority want on here from our beloved Saints....We do not need Lowey gloating..that is our preserve.

 

Adam Lallana to me is still a great flourishing talent and if used correctly would be an asset to the side/squad.....He has been misused by some poor coaches/Lowey.

To-day hopefully the coach is going to perservere with what we have been crying out for...Experience at the front and in the middle at the back.

 

2 more good experienced pros needed.

 

I am sure others will go.

Loans in very important with right selections/srategy/substitutions AND

Lowey to stay away from the footballteam/coaches...Totally old fashioned football from now and for the rest of the season.

 

Tell Lowey to stay away and we have half a chance.

 

By the way prefer if you would call me Gladys.

 

Right Gladys I agree with most of what you are saying I know you are not on Lowe's Christmas card list neither am I so I excuse you for usual Lowe ramblings

 

 

How about selling Lallana pay off some of our debt and get in two good experienced pros but good is the important word

[ottery st mary]

Right Gladys I agree with most of what you are saying I know you are not on Lowe's Christmas card list neither am I so I excuse you for usual Lowe ramblings

 

 

How about selling Lallana pay off some of our debt and get in two good experienced pros but good is the important word

 

Prefer to keep Adam if possible....But being a good old pro will I do for now.

Can't speak for you....Apologies for my Lowey ramblings.....Will have a go at Askey for a while and leave Lowey in peace until Monday.

 

HAVE A GOOD WEEKEND....We can turn you into a Saints supporter yet.

[John B]

Prefer to keep Adam if possible....But being a good old pro will I do for now.

Can't speak for you....Apologies for my Lowey ramblings.....Will have a go at Askey for a while and leave Lowey in peace until Monday.

 

HAVE A GOOD WEEKEND....We can turn you into a Saints supporter yet.

 

Of course I am a Saints supporter who does not care who is in the boardroom as long as the team looks as it can be successful

[ottery st mary]

Onwards and upwards Saints...More of the same please.

Off down the pub to drink some orange juice to our great result, Cheers John.

[NickG]

Letting Cork go clearly is..

 

He is a good player and will be a big loss.

 

we didn't let him go -we wanted him to stay -he left.

 

Good player and real shame he went but if this new guy is a solid presence at CB we have missed for last few years then its a good swap. New guy more solid at CB, with Schniederlin more skillful as a holding midfielder -however as we lack any sort of depth would much rather both!

Edited 10 January, 2009 by NickG

[John B]

we didn't let him go -we wanted him to stay -he left.

 

Good player and real shame he went but if this new guy is a solid presence at CB we have missed for last few years then its a good swap. More solid at CB, with Schniederlin more skillful as a holding midfielder -however as we lakc any sort of depth would much rather both!

 

Yes I agree but losing Cork may not turn out as bad as was originally thought

[Greenridge]

It really irks to see a thread like this on a day where a bit of unity wouldn't go amiss and enjoying a much needed win but there you go. It could quite easily have been added to the existing thread on Cork in any case.

 

Losing our best outfield player so far this season? yes I'd see that as a negative. He was not a centre half by choice either so comparing him to Size is not particularly relevant although of course he played in many positions which maybe indicates what JP thought of his importance to us. I'd rather have seen us not sign Gasmi / Pulis / Forecast etc etc and bung a few more bob towards Cork if that's what it needed to keep him.

 

But we are where we are and let's hope we can build on this.

[aintforever]

It depends if this Size is better or worse - simple as that.

[John B]

It really irks to see a thread like this on a day where a bit of unity wouldn't go amiss and enjoying a much needed win but there you go. It could quite easily have been added to the existing thread on Cork in any case.

 

Losing our best outfield player so far this season? yes I'd see that as a negative. He was not a centre half by choice either so comparing him to Size is not particularly relevant although of course he played in many positions which maybe indicates what JP thought of his importance to us. I'd rather have seen us not sign Gasmi / Pulis / Forecast etc etc and bung a few more bob towards Cork if that's what it needed to keep him.

 

But we are where we are and let's hope we can build on this.

 

Surely this forum is for discussions I thought Cork was a loss but if his move allows us to get in Size a big CB it may not be a bad thing.

 

Thats all

 

Not getting what fans want ie Richard Wright who in my opinion saved us from relegation has not turn out to be that bad.

 

Of course I would like to have Wright Davies John and Cork in our squad but that does not appear to be possible.

 

I also cannot see why Pulis and Gasmi were signed but that is another question

[alpine_saint]

People were upset last week when Cork went to Watford.

 

 

But now we have Saeijs who seems to have a physical presence will Cork be seriously missed in defence I know he was more than a decent player but not a CB perhaps

 

In the summer Wright was not signed and fans were disappointed but Davis has been awesome.

 

Why couldnt we have had the Dutchie at CB and Cork at RB ?

[alpine_saint]

I put it on for a discussion that is what a forum is for

 

I just thought we may not have got a large CB if Cork had not gone and wondered if others agreed

 

But as you mention it not all of SFC's decisions are wrong some are some are not.

 

Jesus, you make it sound like this has turned out this way by design, rather than a scramble to negate the effects of the latest arrogant management cokk-up.......

[ALWAYS_SFC]

we didn't let him go -we wanted him to stay -he left.

 

Good player and real shame he went but if this new guy is a solid presence at CB we have missed for last few years then its a good swap. New guy more solid at CB, with Schniederlin more skillful as a holding midfielder -however as we lack any sort of depth would much rather both!

 

Gloss it over if you like but by the account from Cork himself

we did not do enough to keep him...

 

And yes, we would and indeed should have both...

[saint_stevo]

he didnt always play at CB anyway, so no.

 

He is not our player, deal with it

[CB Fry]

Gloss it over if you like but by the account from Cork himself

we did not do enough to keep him...

 

And yes, we would and indeed should have both...

 

 

And I take it you also believed Jermaine Defoe when he said today that "Portsmouth didn't really want me".

 

Unbelivable the lengths at which dumb football fans will lap up any old fanny doled out by a football player making his excuses for switching clubs for perfectly understandable financial (Watford offered more money) and personal (managed by the manager who had him as captain of the Chelsea youth team) reasons.

 

Seriously, there was nothing going to stop Jack Cork going to Watford. Get the f u ck over it.

 

[ALWAYS_SFC]

And I take it you also believed Jermaine Defoe when he said today that "Portsmouth didn't really want me".

 

Unbelivable the lengths at which dumb football fans will lap up any old fanny doled out by a football player making his excuses for switching clubs for perfectly understandable financial (Watford offered more money) and personal (managed by the manager who had him as captain of the Chelsea youth team) reasons.

 

Seriously, there was nothing going to stop Jack Cork going to Watford. Get the f u ck over it.

 

 

Could not give a flyin` about Defoe...

 

After all the ******** that come out of this club i choose not to believe

what they say very much and took the players view over the club and still do.

 

Its all about opinions mush,you have yours,i have mine

so get the f u c k over it.

[saintwarwick]

Could not give a flyin` about Defoe...

 

After all the ******** that come out of this club i choose not to believe

what they say very much and took the players view over the club and still do.

 

Its all about opinions mush,you have yours,i have mine

so get the f u c k over it.

 

Yep it's all about opinions and I agree with CB Fry, it was all about money and personal. We couldn't match either so get the f u c k over it.

[saintbletch]

Unbelivable the lengths at which dumb football fans will lap up any old fanny

[Jonnyboy]

Letting Cork go clearly is..

 

He is a good player and will be a big loss.

 

I would rather have players on contracts than loan players

[VectisSaint]

I put it on for a discussion that is what a forum is for

 

I just thought we may not have got a large CB if Cork had not gone and wondered if others agreed

 

But as you mention it not all of SFC's decisions are wrong some are some are not.

I think we got Seijs because Pearce was recalled, not because Cork went. Pearce's loan had been extended to end January because Killer is still not fit. When he was recalled suddenly JP had a problem. Cork's departure has meant that Wotton is back in the squad and with Spiderman fit again Cork has been adequately replaced (really not clear what happened with Wotton, thought he had gone to Brighton, but looking at their site there is no mention).

[ALWAYS_SFC]

Yep it's all about opinions and I agree with CB Fry, it was all about money and personal. We couldn't match either so get the f u c k over it.

 

 

Where does it say about the money?

 

If you don`t like my opinion that`s tough...

 

but it remains different to yours and CB`s so get the F u c k over it.

[ALWAYS_SFC]

I would rather have players on contracts than loan players

 

Me too..

 

But apparently we are beggars and they are not allowed to be choosers

[brmbrm]

"Losing Cork does it Matter?"

 

Totally bizarre. Lose one of the 3 or 4 best players and you say "does it matter?". i could give you 10 or 20 names it would be better to lose. A bit of cajoling, persuasion, sweet-talking, lovey stuff and he would stay here in a settled environment.

 

Nah, thats too much for the smug "leadership" in this club.

[ALWAYS_SFC]

"Losing Cork does it Matter?"

 

Totally bizarre. Lose one of the 3 or 4 best players and you say "does it matter?". i could give you 10 or 20 names it would be better to lose. A bit of cajoling, persuasion, sweet-talking, lovey stuff and he would stay here in a settled environment.

 

Nah, thats too much for the smug "leadership" in this club.

 

Well said...we should go all out to keep quality at the club...

[saintwarwick]

And I take it you also believed Jermaine Defoe when he said today that "Portsmouth didn't really want me".

 

Unbelivable the lengths at which dumb football fans will lap up any old fanny doled out by a football player making his excuses for switching clubs for perfectly understandable financial (Watford offered more money) and personal (managed by the manager who had him as captain of the Chelsea youth team) reasons.

 

Seriously, there was nothing going to stop Jack Cork going to Watford. Get the f u ck over it.

 

 

Where does it say about the money?

 

If you don`t like my opinion that`s tough...

 

but it remains different to yours and CB`s so get the F u c k over it.

 

Please see CB Fry's post above, perhaps if you read it properly in the first place it would of enabled you to understand what I was replying to

[ALWAYS_SFC]

Please see CB Fry's post above, perhaps if you read it properly in the first place it would of enabled you to understand what I was replying to

 

And i meant where does it say about

Cork not getting offered enough money from himself or the club.

 

Crossed wires i suspect...

Edited 10 January, 2009 by ALWAYS_SFC

[saintwarwick]

Well said...we should go all out to keep quality at the club...

 

Absolutely agree but he has gone and there is nothing we can do about it. He's spent a lot of games in midfield recently and we have enough cover in that department, it's defenders we need so the capture of Saeijs is a step in the right direction considering his age and experience.

[up and away]

Originally Posted by ALWAYS_SFC

Gloss it over if you like but by the account from Cork himself

we did not do enough to keep him...

 

And yes, we would and indeed should have both...

And I take it you also believed Jermaine Defoe when he said today that "Portsmouth didn't really want me".

 

Unbelivable the lengths at which dumb football fans will lap up any old fanny doled out by a football player making his excuses for switching clubs for perfectly understandable financial (Watford offered more money) and personal (managed by the manager who had him as captain of the Chelsea youth team) reasons.

 

Seriously, there was nothing going to stop Jack Cork going to Watford. Get the f u ck over it.

 

 

And if anyone had bothered to read through what Cork actually said it was obviously about money. Just throw in the fact that Jan stated the reason was down to money and you have the full set.

 

When the player is stating about all the good friends he made in Southampton, that he enjoyed it down here and we wanted to keep him, then to follow that up with Watford wanted me more. It was either about getting a / more bonus or getting his knob polished. But when you a firing off on alternative agendas, it does not really come into the thinking.

 

Cork will always be a loss because he was a good player. The question will come down to what effective use have we made of the money available to us? Only time will tell on that one, but it could be a double whammy because he has gone to Watford.

[The Godfather]

Cork is just a good player at this level. Centre half is not his best position, its just he can play several position very well. Of course we still miss him. I'd rather him at right back than lloyd james.

[saintwarwick]

And i meant where does it say about

Cork not getting offered enough money from himself or the club.

 

Crossed wires i suspect...

 

It doesn't say anything about wages from the clubs or the player, Cork like ALL players are not going to admit they left for more money, that would be admitting to greed. The players have agents who help them say the right things hence Cork's reference to "Watford wanted me more than Southampton".

[AndyNorthernSaints]

Cork's best position was in central midfield IMO and he is missed. Surman and Morgan cannot tackle and leave us vulnerable against decent sides.

[Fowllyd]

Cork was on loan here; he's now on loan at Watford. As far as I know, loan players are paid what they would be paid by their parent club if they weren't on loan. After all, their contract is with their parent club; the loan is simply an arrangement between the two clubs. If this is the case, then Cork will be earning exactly the same at Watford as he was here, and as he would be if he were at Chelsea and not on loan. The only potential monetary difference would be what proportion of his wages Watford are paying, compared to what we were paying.

 

I'm quite prepared to believe that the presence of a man he'd worked with before (and clearly has a good deal of respect for) at Watford was a major part of his decision. But I can't see how money comes into it.

 

On the original topic - yes, it does matter. He's a very good young player, and I'd love to see him playing in the centre of our midfield. It's notable I think that in the Guardian's write-up of last night's match, he was the only Watford player mentioned as being a regular threat to Reading. And he was playing in central midfield in that match.

[jam]

Gloss it over if you like but by the account from Cork himself

we did not do enough to keep him...

 

And yes, we would and indeed should have both...

 

Do you mean the account by Cork himself where he said that Southampton wanted him to stay? We didn't let him go, he (or Chelsea, see below) chose to - he was a loan player and out of contract, aint much more to add to that.

 

I think we got Seijs because Pearce was recalled, not because Cork went. Pearce's loan had been extended to end January because Killer is still not fit. When he was recalled suddenly JP had a problem. Cork's departure has meant that Wotton is back in the squad and with Spiderman fit again Cork has been adequately replaced (really not clear what happened with Wotton, thought he had gone to Brighton, but looking at their site there is no mention).

 

As VectisSaint (and Alpine_Saint) say, Seijs is a replacement for Pearce, not Cork - we could easily have both in the team. So until we get a good midfield replacement then losing Cork DOES matter.

 

It doesn't say anything about wages from the clubs or the player, Cork like ALL players are not going to admit they left for more money, that would be admitting to greed. The players have agents who help them say the right things hence Cork's reference to "Watford wanted me more than Southampton".

 

saintwarwick, I think ALWAYS_SFC was responding to CB's comment about Watford paying more money and asking what that was based on. As in where did CB get that from.

 

On that subject, if Watford WERE offering more money, how much say does the player have in the deal and how much does the parent club have? I ask because it seems to be the case that Chelsea are looking to recoup money and cut spending where they can at the moment.

[buctootim]

On that subject, if Watford WERE offering more money, how much say does the player have in the deal and how much does the parent club have? I ask because it seems to be the case that Chelsea are looking to recoup money and cut spending where they can at the moment.

 

That hadn't occurred to me before. Maybe Cork had NO say in the move. Its possible Chelsea simply loaned him to Watford instead of Saints because they were prepared / able to pay a higher percentage of his wages.

[saintwarwick]

Cork was on loan here; he's now on loan at Watford. As far as I know, loan players are paid what they would be paid by their parent club if they weren't on loan. After all, their contract is with their parent club; the loan is simply an arrangement between the two clubs. If this is the case, then Cork will be earning exactly the same at Watford as he was here, and as he would be if he were at Chelsea and not on loan. The only potential monetary difference would be what proportion of his wages Watford are paying, compared to what we were paying.

 

I'm quite prepared to believe that the presence of a man he'd worked with before (and clearly has a good deal of respect for) at Watford was a major part of his decision. But I can't see how money comes into it.

 

 

saintwarwick, I think ALWAYS_SFC was responding to CB's comment about Watford paying more money and asking what that was based on. As in where did CB get that from.

 

On that subject, if Watford WERE offering more money, how much say does the player have in the deal and how much does the parent club have? I ask because it seems to be the case that Chelsea are looking to recoup money and cut spending where they can at the moment.

 

That hadn't occurred to me before. Maybe Cork had NO say in the move. Its possible Chelsea simply loaned him to Watford instead of Saints because they were prepared / able to pay a higher percentage of his wages.

 

 

Some very good points here as highlighted in the posts above, well picked up Fowllyd and jam.

[NickG]

Gloss it over if you like but by the account from Cork himself

we did not do enough to keep him...

 

And yes, we would and indeed should have both...

 

that's not what he said, think it was "Watford wanted me more" that's hardly a damning condemnation is it? More like someone he knew presuaded him to join up again, or offered a signing on fee or something, not glossing over it at all just going on what both parties have said rather than making stuff up!

[ALWAYS_SFC]

that's not what he said, think it was "Watford wanted me more" that's hardly a damning condemnation is it? More like someone he knew presuaded him to join up again, or offered a signing on fee or something, not glossing over it at all just going on what both parties have said rather than making stuff up!

 

Which ever way you look at it we did not do enough to convince

this seasons second best player to stay and ****ty piece of management

by our chairman/board/coach as per normal...

 

To say Watford wanted me more proves we did not prove or show

we wanted him enough...

[NickG]

who knows? none of us.