danjosaint Posted 4 January, 2017 Share Posted 4 January, 2017 Anyone see the piece in the Sun today regarding us and finances, this may well have been posted already so I apologise, it was mentioned we've taken another loan out possibly ready for transfer window, I've not paper with me so can't be bit more accurate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Window Cleaner Posted 4 January, 2017 Share Posted 4 January, 2017 Anyone see the piece in the Sun today regarding us and finances, this may well have been posted already so I apologise, it was mentioned we've taken another loan out possibly ready for transfer window, I've not paper with me so can't be bit more accurate Why would we need loans ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heisenberg Posted 4 January, 2017 Share Posted 4 January, 2017 Are you sure it didnt say Southampton eyeing a loan move for Paris Saint-Germain's Hatem Ben Arfa? We wouldnt need a loan - we have sold £230m worth of players/managers + recieved over £250m from TV, league finishes and gates last 3 years We are loaded Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shurlock Posted 4 January, 2017 Share Posted 4 January, 2017 Are you sure it didnt say Southampton eyeing a loan move for Paris Saint-Germain's Hatem Ben Arfa? We wouldnt need a loan - we have sold £230m worth of players/managers + recieved over £250m from TV, league finishes and gates last 3 years We are loaded According to the reports, his wages (£65K p/w) are outside our budget. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shance Posted 4 January, 2017 Share Posted 4 January, 2017 Are you sure it didnt say Southampton eyeing a loan move for Paris Saint-Germain's Hatem Ben Arfa? We wouldnt need a loan - we have sold £230m worth of players/managers + recieved over £250m from TV, league finishes and gates last 3 years We are loaded Still need money for cash flow. It still flabbergasts me how many people consistently fail to grasp this simple concept. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ADutchSaint Posted 4 January, 2017 Share Posted 4 January, 2017 Are you sure it didnt say Southampton eyeing a loan move for Paris Saint-Germain's Hatem Ben Arfa? We wouldnt need a loan - we have sold £230m worth of players/managers + recieved over £250m from TV, league finishes and gates last 3 years We are loaded And how much is left of all that after getting in replacements, running the club, after taxes and all that stuff. I'll tell you, not as much as you think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heisenberg Posted 4 January, 2017 Share Posted 4 January, 2017 According to the reports, his wages (£65K p/w) are outside our budget. Paper lies and anti Saints agenda trying to destabilise our great club We offered Fonte 85k a week and VVD (70) Austin (70-100) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danjosaint Posted 4 January, 2017 Author Share Posted 4 January, 2017 Are you sure it didnt say Southampton eyeing a loan move for Paris Saint-Germain's Hatem Ben Arfa? We wouldnt need a loan - we have sold £230m worth of players/managers + recieved over £250m from TV, league finishes and gates last 3 years We are loaded No the Ben arfa story was on another page, this mentioned us taking out a large loan with that company (can't think of name but begins with M) that we've dealt with before, basically implying kat won't release her personal funds, fair I guess but adding debt to club Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shurlock Posted 4 January, 2017 Share Posted 4 January, 2017 No the Ben arfa story was on another page, this mentioned us taking out a large loan with that company (can't think of name but begins with M) that we've dealt with before, basically implying kat won't release her personal funds, fair I guess but adding debt to club Use of debt could just be for tax planning purposes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 4 January, 2017 Share Posted 4 January, 2017 No the Ben arfa story was on another page, this mentioned us taking out a large loan with that company (can't think of name but begins with M) that we've dealt with before, basically implying kat won't release her personal funds, fair I guess but adding debt to club Macquarie bank. Australian lot. We've used them before. Might just be for cash flow or tax reasons like others have said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OVER THE HILL Posted 4 January, 2017 Share Posted 4 January, 2017 Was it the Vibrac Corporation ? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vibrac_Corporation Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heisenberg Posted 4 January, 2017 Share Posted 4 January, 2017 No the Ben arfa story was on another page, this mentioned us taking out a large loan with that company (can't think of name but begins with M) that we've dealt with before, basically implying kat won't release her personal funds, fair I guess but adding debt to club Macquarie Bank We must be going big this window...... Brilliant James Rodríguez maybe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trousers Posted 4 January, 2017 Share Posted 4 January, 2017 This one... Was mentioned on here a while back Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gemmel Posted 4 January, 2017 Share Posted 4 January, 2017 Are you sure it didnt say Southampton eyeing a loan move for Paris Saint-Germain's Hatem Ben Arfa? We wouldnt need a loan - we have sold £230m worth of players/managers + recieved over £250m from TV, league finishes and gates last 3 years We are loaded Why do you continue with this bull**** - Read the audited accounts - It is all there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trousers Posted 4 January, 2017 Share Posted 4 January, 2017 Why do you continue with this bull**** Because he keeps getting bites? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heisenberg Posted 4 January, 2017 Share Posted 4 January, 2017 Why do you continue with this bull**** - Read the audited accounts - It is all there. Not seen last years - have you? Normally out October/ November time Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Garrett Posted 4 January, 2017 Share Posted 4 January, 2017 Thought these loans were now against premier league rules ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batman Posted 4 January, 2017 Share Posted 4 January, 2017 Thought these loans were now against premier league rules ? Yeah, we don't buy success, we take out loans against it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gemmel Posted 4 January, 2017 Share Posted 4 January, 2017 Yeah, we don't buy success, we take out loans against it Correct. Nearly 70 million pounds worth, but Glasgow insists we are money bags ozzing cash. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batman Posted 4 January, 2017 Share Posted 4 January, 2017 Correct. Nearly 70 million pounds worth, but Glasgow insists we are money bags ozzing cash. Given how much we sell. Something needs investigating Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gemmel Posted 4 January, 2017 Share Posted 4 January, 2017 Not seen last years - have you? Normally out October/ November time The latest accounts available tell you all you need to know........ but you already know that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gemmel Posted 4 January, 2017 Share Posted 4 January, 2017 Given how much we sell. Something needs investigating Not at all - It's the loans that Cortese took out through Vibrac, that were then restructured under Katrina's personal estate through Macquarie Bank, when she took back control. That was done a while ago so I would guess this is something new. I'm not 100% sure what a negative pledge actually means and I am happy to be corrected, but from a brief google, could it be that Katrina has moved the liability from her personal estate to the club ? (That's a question not a statement of fact) but could be relevant if this takeover is going through. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heisenberg Posted 4 January, 2017 Share Posted 4 January, 2017 The latest accounts available tell you all you need to know........ but you already know that. So nothing for 18 months or so? Seem odd to you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batman Posted 4 January, 2017 Share Posted 4 January, 2017 Not at all - It's the loans that Cortese took out through Vibrac, that were then restructured under Katrina's personal estate through Macquarie Bank, when she took back control. That was done a while ago so I would guess this is something new. I'm not 100% sure what a negative pledge actually means and I am happy to be corrected, but from a brief google, could it be that Katrina has moved the liability from her personal estate to the club ? (That's a question not a statement of fact) but could be relevant if this takeover is going through. **** me, we have made millions from player sales alone. How much longer are we going to have to do that to pay back 15m quid Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gemmel Posted 4 January, 2017 Share Posted 4 January, 2017 So nothing for 18 months or so? Seem odd to you? Accounts Next accounts made up to 30 June 2016 due by 31 March 2017 Last accounts made up to 31 May 2039 Confirmation statement Next statement date 21 September 2017 due by 5 October 2017 Last statement dated 21 September 2016 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gemmel Posted 4 January, 2017 Share Posted 4 January, 2017 https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/00053301/filing-history Fill your boots Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperSAINT Posted 4 January, 2017 Share Posted 4 January, 2017 My assumption about people asking where the money has gone is often that people forget just how much new contracts much cost. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gemmel Posted 4 January, 2017 Share Posted 4 January, 2017 **** me, we have made millions from player sales alone. How much longer are we going to have to do that to pay back 15m quid 15 million? Who paid for the Training ground, Ramierz, Osvaldo...... and the private toilet :lol::lol: There were two Vibrac loans - The second was significantly more than the first and the first thing that Katrina did was to restructure them against her personal estate. From memory of when Gareth Rodgers was talking how how much debt was being carried and the numbers the Swiss Rambler mentioned , I think it was nearly 70 million - But don't hold me to that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heisenberg Posted 4 January, 2017 Share Posted 4 January, 2017 https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/00053301/filing-history Fill your boots Weve seen all that before - Trousers posted the link What we haven't seen is the accounts for last year - normally out around October / November The last financial results available are for the 14/15 season and were made available October 2015. Showed we made huge pre and post tax profits Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gemmel Posted 4 January, 2017 Share Posted 4 January, 2017 The last financial results available are for the 14/15 season and were made available October 2015. Showed we made huge pre and post tax profits 14million and 26 million respectively .....but carrying this debt ................ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batman Posted 4 January, 2017 Share Posted 4 January, 2017 15 million? Who paid for the Training ground, Ramierz, Osvaldo...... and the private toilet :lol::lol: There were two Vibrac loans - The second was significantly more than the first and the first thing that Katrina did was to restructure them against her personal estate. From memory of when Gareth Rodgers was talking how how much debt was being carried and the numbers the Swiss Rambler mentioned , I think it was nearly 70 million - But don't hold me to that. didnt the owner put money into the club and converted it into equity? havent we made obscene amount from player trading alone, that is before the obscene amount of TV money how long do you think we will have to go selling everyone and having a massive positive net spend on paying back this loan? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faz Posted 4 January, 2017 Share Posted 4 January, 2017 Not at all - It's the loans that Cortese took out through Vibrac, that were then restructured under Katrina's personal estate through Macquarie Bank, when she took back control. That was done a while ago so I would guess this is something new. I'm not 100% sure what a negative pledge actually means and I am happy to be corrected, but from a brief google, could it be that Katrina has moved the liability from her personal estate to the club ? (That's a question not a statement of fact) but could be relevant if this takeover is going through. The charge to MacQuarrie is in fact an Assignment of Premier League payments, which need to be paired dirctly to the Bank. The Negative pledge is, in effect, a promise not to dispose of assets - Cant be arsed to see exactly what it relates to, but probably not to assign those proceeds elsewhere. As you say, given that the EPL monies are paid twice annually, there will be a need to have some sort of cash flow facility. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gemmel Posted 4 January, 2017 Share Posted 4 January, 2017 (edited) didnt the owner put money into the club and converted it into equity? havent we made obscene amount from player trading alone, that is before the obscene amount of TV money how long do you think we will have to go selling everyone and having a massive positive net spend on paying back this loan? didnt the owner put money into the club and converted it into equity? There was definitely some loans converted into equity, but not sure how much and the training ground went massively over budget. havent we made obscene amount from player trading alone, that is before the obscene amount of TV money. Yes but we have also spent a fair bit ... Again from memory I think we are plus nearly 50 million on transfers in and out, but that doesn't take into account the bigger contracts for the existing players and those we have bought in. how long do you think we will have to go selling everyone and having a massive positive net spend on paying back this loan. I would imagine we are all but there. The next set of accounts will be very interesting, but my guess is that we are nearly done - Which is why this latest charge is strange / relevant...... actually see FAz post above, so nothing sinister about that. Edited 4 January, 2017 by Gemmel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faz Posted 4 January, 2017 Share Posted 4 January, 2017 In the 2015 accounts, the shareholder loan went from £15m in 2014 to £30m. Of that £30m, £9m is due to be repaid in the year 2016/17, and the remainder by 2020. The only other finance outstanding was for the overdraft facility. No dividend was declared in 2015 (nor in 2014). Quite where people get the idea Kat is lining her pockets from escapes me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chez Posted 4 January, 2017 Share Posted 4 January, 2017 It's the players that are lining their pockets. The wage bill keeps rising, which is fine if the team keep getting better. That said I struggle to get my head around our debt increasing. If we are not self sufficient now when will we ever be? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bstokesaint Posted 4 January, 2017 Share Posted 4 January, 2017 Considering we have made huge amounts from player sales and spent relatively little, how have all the other small/medium teams like West Brom, Watford, Bournemouth etc survived/passed ffp?! I struggle to think of anyone else who has constantly made large profits in transfer windows? Most of the other 19 teams makes a large loss each window.... are we the only team being run without huge losses every year? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ALWAYS_SFC Posted 5 January, 2017 Share Posted 5 January, 2017 Why do you continue with this bull**** - Read the audited accounts - It is all there. For as long as he can get away with it and it brings his sheep along too... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DT Posted 5 January, 2017 Share Posted 5 January, 2017 Perhaps it's to pay the manager off... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint86 Posted 5 January, 2017 Share Posted 5 January, 2017 Honest question guys. If saints are in this kind of state financially, given the fact we've had a very low wage bill relative to most teams, made transfer profits each window, and had record tv monies coming into the club; then what kind of state are teams like West Ham, Baggies, Everton, Cherries, Palace etc in? I do not understand how we can be so badly off given the money that has been coming into the club? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heisenberg Posted 5 January, 2017 Share Posted 5 January, 2017 Honest question guys. If saints are in this kind of state financially, given the fact we've had a very low wage bill relative to most teams, made transfer profits each window, and had record tv monies coming into the club; then what kind of state are teams like West Ham, Baggies, Everton, Cherries, Palace etc in? I do not understand how we can be so badly off given the money that has been coming into the club? Questions have been asked - answers not yet recieved. http://www.saintsweb.co.uk/showthread.php?56928-Where-is-all-the-money-going Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldNick Posted 5 January, 2017 Share Posted 5 January, 2017 For as long as he can get away with it and it brings his sheep along too...sadly you are the sheeps leader, you question nothing and just go along thinking that the club is not out to make money. I admire your unquestioning loyalty, but whether the owner takes a dividend or sees the clubs worth rise year on year it is a nice little earner. She doesnt need an income from the club as she is very well heeled. There was something online the other day saying her fortune was 3.3bn (i wouldnt know if that was true but i assume they didnt pluck it out of the air)and so having a loan is not the end of the world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldNick Posted 5 January, 2017 Share Posted 5 January, 2017 Honest question guys. If saints are in this kind of state financially, given the fact we've had a very low wage bill relative to most teams, made transfer profits each window, and had record tv monies coming into the club; then what kind of state are teams like West Ham, Baggies, Everton, Cherries, Palace etc in? I do not understand how we can be so badly off given the money that has been coming into the club?This is something I brought up soem time ago, if we are not in a strong financial state with all the good money taken in, our business model must really be cack. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ALWAYS_SFC Posted 5 January, 2017 Share Posted 5 January, 2017 sadly you are the sheeps leader, you question nothing and just go along thinking that the club is not out to make money. I admire your unquestioning loyalty, but whether the owner takes a dividend or sees the clubs worth rise year on year it is a nice little earner. She doesnt need an income from the club as she is very well heeled. There was something online the other day saying her fortune was 3.3bn (i wouldnt know if that was true but i assume they didnt pluck it out of the air)and so having a loan is not the end of the world. Really .. lol Just because i dont moan, whine and ***** at everything does not mean i agree with it or don`t have questions regarding the operation of the club. I just don`t feel the need to knee jerk at every occurrence like lots do on here... I speak to and as people who actually know not get sucked in to the rabid ramblings on here The word perspective is rarely understood on here sadly and perhaps you should have a little more given your time served as a Saints fan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shurlock Posted 5 January, 2017 Share Posted 5 January, 2017 Honest question guys. If saints are in this kind of state financially, given the fact we've had a very low wage bill relative to most teams, made transfer profits each window, and had record tv monies coming into the club; then what kind of state are teams like West Ham, Baggies, Everton, Cherries, Palace etc in? I do not understand how we can be so badly off given the money that has been coming into the club? Because we've gone from the bottom of league 1 to the top 6 in a very short space of time and have built a state-of-the-art training ground/academy (for all the grumbling). It's normal for any 'growth' company. Indeed we've been lucky that we've been able to fund expansion through debt rather than equity (which isn't usually the case) given historically low interest rates, the tax benefits of debt and loss of control rights associated with equity. All things considered, KL has done exceptionally well in return given the tangible and intangible assets she's now sitting on (the value of which current financial accounting struggles with - see Lev and Gu's excellent new book). If she sold tmrw -and a PL football club is a relatively liquid asset, she'd make a very tidy profit. We are in a healthy position. People just don't understand corporate finance, valuation and the lifecycle of companies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benjii Posted 5 January, 2017 Share Posted 5 January, 2017 Honest question guys. If saints are in this kind of state financially, given the fact we've had a very low wage bill relative to most teams, made transfer profits each window, and had record tv monies coming into the club; then what kind of state are teams like West Ham, Baggies, Everton, Cherries, Palace etc in? I do not understand how we can be so badly off given the money that has been coming into the club? We are not badly off or in a "kind of state". But if you spend £30m+ on an infrastructure project you're probably going to carry some debt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitey Grandad Posted 5 January, 2017 Share Posted 5 January, 2017 Because we've gone from the bottom of league 1 to the top 6 in a very short space of time and have built a state-of-the-art training ground/academy (for all the grumbling). It's normal for any 'growth' company. Indeed we've been lucky that we've been able to fund expansion through debt rather than equity (which isn't usually the case) given historically low interest rates, the tax benefits of debt and loss of control rights associated with equity. All things considered, KL has done exceptionally well in return given the tangible and intangible assets she's now sitting on (the value of which current financial accounting struggles with - see Lev and Gu's excellent new book). If she sold tmrw -and a PL football club is a relatively liquid asset, she'd make a very tidy profit. We are in a healthy position. People just don't understand corporate finance, valuation and the lifecycle of companies. Most companies operate with some form of debt (loan) as due most individuals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldNick Posted 5 January, 2017 Share Posted 5 January, 2017 Really .. lol Just because i dont moan, whine and ***** at everything does not mean i agree with it or don`t have questions regarding the operation of the club. I just don`t feel the need to knee jerk at every occurrence like lots do on here... I speak to and as people who actually know not get sucked in to the rabid ramblings on here The word perspective is rarely understood on here sadly and perhaps you should have a little more given your time served as a Saints fan. Ok thats fair comment but my perception is that you do jump down the throats of some with valid concerns. Some posters do deserve it of course, but in the main most who come on here to voice the concerns for the club they have invested their time and life in are doing so because they care. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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