Jonnyboy Posted 4 January, 2017 Share Posted 4 January, 2017 Fonte has been a kn8b all season by sounds of things. Not getting his dream move to Manure etc. Shame really. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AR-10 Posted 4 January, 2017 Share Posted 4 January, 2017 There is a heck of a lot of of over-shooting here (no pun intend...obviously good grief.) This is my last post as I'm maxed out today and I have nothing more to add. I do not believe Claude Puel HIMSELF has lost the dressing room, I think his job is being made infinitely harder by having "a no2" whom more than one player don't particularly like. I'm not going to name players, but I can tell you Shane Long isn't one of the more vocal ones. One HAS been mentioned on this thread and has had dust ups with Black before, which was mis-reported as being Dusan Tadic. As per this: "Some senior pros have told the club, either sort it out, which I assume means get rid of Puel, or the players will leave and some have already instructed agents to see what's available elsewhere." ^ that also confirms everything I know, seen and have heard to be true, though NOT aimed at Claude Puel. Let's just get things into a bit of perspective, Claude Puel is not a bad manager, he just needs time and under the right environment.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angelman Posted 4 January, 2017 Share Posted 4 January, 2017 Players aren't paid to like the manager Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonnyboy Posted 4 January, 2017 Share Posted 4 January, 2017 Could any of this stem from the historical allegations made against Black last year? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shroppie Posted 4 January, 2017 Share Posted 4 January, 2017 Could any of this stem from the historical allegations made against Black last year? No idea, but I think the fact that he has an awful track record is more significant. Sent from my D6503 using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pamplemousse Posted 4 January, 2017 Share Posted 4 January, 2017 When did the story about his missus being unsettled 'appear' in the press? Pre 5pm Saturday or post 5pm Saturday? Monday morning Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batman Posted 4 January, 2017 Share Posted 4 January, 2017 Did Bertrand work with black at villa? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shurlock Posted 4 January, 2017 Share Posted 4 January, 2017 Did Bertrand work with black at villa? Doubt it. Wasn't Black a Remi Garde appointment? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GGalpin Posted 4 January, 2017 Share Posted 4 January, 2017 Did Bertrand work with black at villa? Nah, joined Villa in January 2016. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
positivepete Posted 4 January, 2017 Share Posted 4 January, 2017 Rowlett for Black? He has been on our radar for some time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ericb Posted 4 January, 2017 Share Posted 4 January, 2017 There is a heck of a lot of of over-shooting here (no pun intend...obviously good grief.) This is my last post as I'm maxed out today and I have nothing more to add. I do not believe Claude Puel HIMSELF has lost the dressing room, I think his job is being made infinitely harder by having "a no2" whom more than one player don't particularly like. I'm not going to name players, but I can tell you Shane Long isn't one of the more vocal ones. One HAS been mentioned on this thread and has had dust ups with Black before, which was mis-reported as being Dusan Tadic. As per this: "Some senior pros have told the club, either sort it out, which I assume means get rid of Puel, or the players will leave and some have already instructed agents to see what's available elsewhere." ^ that also confirms everything I know, seen and have heard to be true, though NOT aimed at Claude Puel. Let's just get things into a bit of perspective, Claude Puel is not a bad manager, he just needs time and under the right environment.. What about a senior player walking into board meetings then? Or the same senior player playing up and acting like a bit of a knob around the club? And the fact his actions have led to another player not wanting to play in the same side as him anymore? I'm sure none of that is true either is it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trousers Posted 4 January, 2017 Share Posted 4 January, 2017 There is a heck of a lot of of over-shooting here (no pun intend...obviously good grief.) This is my last post as I'm maxed out today and I have nothing more to add. I do not believe Claude Puel HIMSELF has lost the dressing room, I think his job is being made infinitely harder by having "a no2" whom more than one player don't particularly like. I'm not going to name players, but I can tell you Shane Long isn't one of the more vocal ones. One HAS been mentioned on this thread and has had dust ups with Black before, which was mis-reported as being Dusan Tadic. As per this: "Some senior pros have told the club, either sort it out, which I assume means get rid of Puel, or the players will leave and some have already instructed agents to see what's available elsewhere." ^ that also confirms everything I know, seen and have heard to be true, though NOT aimed at Claude Puel. Let's just get things into a bit of perspective, Claude Puel is not a bad manager, he just needs time and under the right environment.. Thanks, but got any news that we don't already know or couldn't piece together from all the other posts ourselves? Cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Benali Posted 4 January, 2017 Share Posted 4 January, 2017 There is a heck of a lot of of over-shooting here (no pun intend...obviously good grief.) This is my last post as I'm maxed out today and I have nothing more to add. I do not believe Claude Puel HIMSELF has lost the dressing room, I think his job is being made infinitely harder by having "a no2" whom more than one player don't particularly like. I'm not going to name players, but I can tell you Shane Long isn't one of the more vocal ones. One HAS been mentioned on this thread and has had dust ups with Black before, which was mis-reported as being Dusan Tadic. As per this: "Some senior pros have told the club, either sort it out, which I assume means get rid of Puel, or the players will leave and some have already instructed agents to see what's available elsewhere." ^ that also confirms everything I know, seen and have heard to be true, though NOT aimed at Claude Puel. Let's just get things into a bit of perspective, Claude Puel is not a bad manager, he just needs time and under the right environment.. How this guy has not been banned yet is beyond me. Been proven to know jack **** time and time again... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dalek2003 Posted 4 January, 2017 Share Posted 4 January, 2017 The parallels with our downfall to relegation are a little concerning. Sturrock got some ok results but the senior pros didn't like him and we suffered a few heavy defeats then we persevered too long with Wigley (the cheap option) and we were down. If this is true let's hope the board act quickly and make the right choice re replacing him. Might make sense to make a move given two of our options (supposedly) Silva and Rowett are linked to Hull. Sturrock had lost the dressing room before he even walked into it. The players wanted Hoddle and the club needed his experiences. Some on the Board got cold feet because of the noisy but unrepresentative protest by the noisy minority. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGTL Posted 4 January, 2017 Share Posted 4 January, 2017 What about a senior player walking into board meetings then? Or the same senior player playing up and acting like a bit of a knob around the club? And the fact his actions have led to another player not wanting to play in the same side as him anymore? I'm sure none of that is true either is it? Wouldn't be Mr Fonte, would it? One particular player has stated "he came back from the Euro's and starting acting like a complete bellend" That's from the horses mouth of a current player. It's really not a happy camp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doddisalegend Posted 4 January, 2017 Share Posted 4 January, 2017 I reckon it's true. Heard about some rumblings a few weeks ago. Can't blame the players for being annoyed at the system and rotation, we can all see how bad it is. I'd rather they kicked off like this. At least it shows a level of pride in what they do. As I've said before, once a manager has lost the dressing room, it's only a matter of time.... Of course you can blame the players they are highly paid professionals who should be able to play the way the manager tells them when they are asked to play. Blaming the manager is an easy way to deflect from the fact some of them have been playing like a bad pub team players for most of the season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGTL Posted 4 January, 2017 Share Posted 4 January, 2017 Of course you can blame the players they are highly paid professionals who should be able to play the way the manager tells them when they are asked to play. Blaming the manager is an easy way to deflect from the fact some of them have been playing like a bad pub team players for most of the season. Which, unfortunately, ties in with a lot of the stuff doing the rounds. It shouldn't happen, but it does. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Give it to Ron Posted 4 January, 2017 Share Posted 4 January, 2017 Of course you can blame the players they are highly paid professionals who should be able to play the way the manager tells them when they are asked to play. Blaming the manager is an easy way to deflect from the fact some of them have been playing like a bad pub team players for most of the season. Coupled with **** tactics pathetic rotation despite how well you play. Changing 3 of the back 4 regularly - playing certain players regardless of any contribution then it's easy to blame the players too isn't it? Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doddisalegend Posted 4 January, 2017 Share Posted 4 January, 2017 Wouldn't be Mr Fonte, would it? One particular player has stated "he came back from the Euro's and starting acting like a complete bellend" That's from the horses mouth of a current player. It's really not a happy camp. So if Fonte is the issue the club should just get rid. Let him **** of to Everton or where ever he thinks he will be happy and lets move on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saint77 Posted 4 January, 2017 Share Posted 4 January, 2017 Coupled with **** tactics pathetic rotation despite how well you play. Changing 3 of the back 4 regularly - playing certain players regardless of any contribution then it's easy to blame the players too isn't it? Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Spot on Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shroppie Posted 4 January, 2017 Share Posted 4 January, 2017 The biggest problem with Puel is seeming not to realise the fitness levels needed and assumption that two games in a week is too much for anyone. But Black should know better. Sent from my D6503 using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doddisalegend Posted 4 January, 2017 Share Posted 4 January, 2017 Coupled with **** tactics pathetic rotation despite how well you play. Changing 3 of the back 4 regularly - playing certain players regardless of any contribution then it's easy to blame the players too isn't it? Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Except our tactics are practically the same as under Koeman despite people trying to make out they aren't, the rotation is totally sensible given the large number of games we had , seeing as we have constantly rotated we clearly haven't played certain players regardless of contribution unless you don't rate VVD or Romeu. So yeah its very easy to blame the players unless you think the manager is sending them out with instructions to lose concentration, **** up simple passes, miss the goal when hitting the target is easier and putting in endless **** crosses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wade Garrett Posted 4 January, 2017 Share Posted 4 January, 2017 Coupled with **** tactics pathetic rotation despite how well you play. Changing 3 of the back 4 regularly - playing certain players regardless of any contribution then it's easy to blame the players too isn't it? Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Very well said Ron. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batman Posted 4 January, 2017 Share Posted 4 January, 2017 Except our tactics are practically the same as under Koeman despite people trying to make out they aren't, the rotation is totally sensible given the large number of games we had , seeing as we have constantly rotated we clearly haven't played certain players regardless of contribution unless you don't rate VVD or Romeu. So yeah its very easy to blame the players unless you think the manager is sending them out with instructions to lose concentration, **** up simple passes, miss the goal when hitting the target is easier and putting in endless **** crosses. I think you will be in a group of about 1 if you think that tactics are the same as last season Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Give it to Ron Posted 4 January, 2017 Share Posted 4 January, 2017 (edited) Except our tactics are practically the same as under Koeman despite people trying to make out they aren't, the rotation is totally sensible given the large number of games we had , seeing as we have constantly rotated we clearly haven't played certain players regardless of contribution unless you don't rate VVD or Romeu. So yeah its very easy to blame the players unless you think the manager is sending them out with instructions to lose concentration, **** up simple passes, miss the goal when hitting the target is easier and putting in endless **** crosses. Sorry our tactics are nowhere near the same. Under Koeman we tended to play longer balls up to Pelle. How can you say rotation is sensible when you play WBA and change 3 of back 4 name me a successfully team that does that? Why is rotation only ok for some? Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Edited 4 January, 2017 by Give it to Ron Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greenridge Posted 4 January, 2017 Share Posted 4 January, 2017 Coupled with **** tactics pathetic rotation despite how well you play. Changing 3 of the back 4 regularly - playing certain players regardless of any contribution then it's easy to blame the players too isn't it? Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk I feel quite guilty that we haven't let the footballing world into our secret of mass rotation. Once they find out and it catches on then we'll be really in for it. Can't believe we've got this massive unique edge on everyone else but let's make hay while the sun shines! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doddisalegend Posted 4 January, 2017 Share Posted 4 January, 2017 I think you will be in a group of about 1 if you think that tactics are the same as last season What full backs smashing endless crosses into the box? 3 upfront trying to interchange? trying to keep it tight as a unit in our own half and pressing only occasionally? the only difference is one holding midfielder instead of two which should make us better as an attacking force but doesn't because none of our midfielders seem to have the nous to actually get in the opposition box. I'm well aware a large number of posters have selective memories, were in their minds, last season we played some sort of high tempo, high pressing attacking football but its quiet frankly bollix. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batman Posted 4 January, 2017 Share Posted 4 January, 2017 What full backs smashing endless crosses into the box? 3 upfront trying to interchange? trying to keep it tight as a unit in our own half and pressing only occasionally? the only difference is one holding midfielder instead of two which should make us better as an attacking force but doesn't because none of our midfielders seem to have the nous to actually get in the opposition box. I'm well aware a large number of posters have selective memories, were in their minds, last season we played some sort of high tempo, high pressing attacking football but its quiet frankly bollix. either way, we dont play the same as last season Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doddisalegend Posted 4 January, 2017 Share Posted 4 January, 2017 (edited) Sorry our tactics are nowhere near the same. Under Koeman we tended to play longer balls up to Pelle. How can you say rotation is sensible when you play WBA and change 3 of back 4 name me a successfully team that does that? Why is rotation only ok for some? Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Sorry but I see us lumping plenty of long balls up front this season We had to play three games in six days seems sensible to me. Edited 4 January, 2017 by doddisalegend Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Give it to Ron Posted 4 January, 2017 Share Posted 4 January, 2017 We had to play three games in six days Yes and to play the weakest team in our best chance of a win was **** poor management Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saint lard Posted 4 January, 2017 Share Posted 4 January, 2017 So frustrating....we brought Pochettino to English football.....as an unknown....and as far as I'm concerned he is the best in the league. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Give it to Ron Posted 4 January, 2017 Share Posted 4 January, 2017 Sorry but I see us lumping plenty of long balls up front this season We had to play three games in six days seems sensible to me. From Forster yes after we have passed it sideways and back 50 times. Have to disagree not similar at all for me. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doddisalegend Posted 4 January, 2017 Share Posted 4 January, 2017 Yes and to play the weakest team in our best chance of a win was **** poor management Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk The team he put out was more than capable of winning that game. Right now the manager is hamstrung by a lack of a regular goal scorer most of our so called forwards couldn't score in a ****ing brothel right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shirleysfc Posted 4 January, 2017 Share Posted 4 January, 2017 What full backs smashing endless crosses into the box? 3 upfront trying to interchange? trying to keep it tight as a unit in our own half and pressing only occasionally? the only difference is one holding midfielder instead of two which should make us better as an attacking force but doesn't because none of our midfielders seem to have the nous to actually get in the opposition box. I'm well aware a large number of posters have selective memories, were in their minds, last season we played some sort of high tempo, high pressing attacking football but its quiet frankly bollix. The way our midfield is setup this season is completely different in terms of tactics and formation. The reason our midfielders don't get in the opposition's box isn't because they lack nous, it's because they're setup to contain not attack. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedArmy Posted 4 January, 2017 Share Posted 4 January, 2017 Except our tactics are practically the same as under Koeman despite people trying to make out they aren't.Koemans tactics were fast, direct counter attacking football or long ball. Puels main tactics are slow, sideways football and lots of crosses into the box to players who aren't tall enough to compete with the centre backs, crosses often by the striker who should've been on the receiving end of said cross but is under instruction to split out wide. Definitely similar, I see your point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doddisalegend Posted 4 January, 2017 Share Posted 4 January, 2017 The way our midfield is setup this season is completely different in terms of tactics and formation. The reason our midfielders don't get in the opposition's box isn't because they lack nous, it's because they're setup to contain not attack. Don't buy that. Yes they are expected to drop back and defend but they are clearly meant to be supporting the attack we aren't playing three holding mids. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pengi Posted 4 January, 2017 Share Posted 4 January, 2017 Fonte is far more of an asset to use than Black. Bring back Sammy Lee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Give it to Ron Posted 4 January, 2017 Share Posted 4 January, 2017 (edited) The team he put out was more than capable of winning that game. Right now the manager is hamstrung by a lack of a regular goal scorer most of our so called forwards couldn't score in a ****ing brothel right now. So why not do what most clubs do....change where you have to strongest side out get the game won then substitute. Please again name me a successful side that changes 3 of back 4? If you have played in good teams you will know you build up partnerships and patterns of play. You know what your mate is doing how is that possible with 6 changes most weeks? Linekar tweeted this and MLT agreed Last season Leicester made fewer changes than any side: won league. This season Chelsea have made fewest: top of league. Rotation sucks. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Edited 4 January, 2017 by Give it to Ron Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shroppie Posted 4 January, 2017 Share Posted 4 January, 2017 The way our midfield is setup this season is completely different in terms of tactics and formation. The reason our midfielders don't get in the opposition's box isn't because they lack nous, it's because they're setup to contain not attack. And they are told to conserve energy rather than busting a gut to get onto scoring positions. Sent from my D6503 using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winnersaint Posted 4 January, 2017 Share Posted 4 January, 2017 OP has passed this on in good faith. Not the sort to post on here to just get a reaction. Merely passing on what he has picked up. In some respects I hope it's not true, but accept that it may well be the case. My personal opinion (only an opinion) is that chickens are possibly coming home to roost re Eric Black. Always seemed a strange one considering his track record. A poor fit, considering our way of doing things. Genuinely believe there is a very good manager in Puel. Problem is he is taking more time to adjust than either Pochettino or Koeman and that has given everyone the jitters. That said if CP is serious about making a go of this he has to embrace working in the EPL and not look so readily for excuses like fixture pile ups. They happen! Get a settled side and get shot of Black and things should improve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Le God Posted 4 January, 2017 Share Posted 4 January, 2017 Don't buy that. Yes they are expected to drop back and defend but they are clearly meant to be supporting the attack we aren't playing three holding mids. The midfield 3... - Under Koeman...CM, CM & AM - Under Puel... DM, CM, CM They both form triangles, but facing in different directions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doddisalegend Posted 4 January, 2017 Share Posted 4 January, 2017 Koemans tactics were fast, direct counter attacking football or long ball. Puels main tactics are slow, sideways football and lots of crosses into the box to players who aren't tall enough to compete with the centre backs, crosses often by the striker who should've been on the receiving end of said cross but is under instruction to split out wide. Definitely similar, I see your point. We scored the highest number of headed goals in the PL last season we crossed constantly from the fullbacks under Koeman we are still doing it now . We certainly didn't play loads of fast direct counter attack football last season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint_clark Posted 4 January, 2017 Share Posted 4 January, 2017 I think Long has a ****ing cheek if what you say is true 1 PL league goal all season I hope he goes soon and we can get in a decent consistent striker In fairness he has more cause to be annoyed than any if this is all true. He got well into double figures in basically half a season last season playing a more pacy, attacking style. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batman Posted 4 January, 2017 Share Posted 4 January, 2017 We scored the highest number of headed goals in the PL last season we crossed constantly from the fullbacks under Koeman we are still doing it now . We certainly didn't play loads of fast direct counter attack football last season. either way, it is still pretty different to how we play now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedArmy Posted 4 January, 2017 Share Posted 4 January, 2017 We scored the highest number of headed goals in the PL last season we crossed constantly from the fullbacks under Koeman we are still doing it now . We certainly didn't play loads of fast direct counter attack football last season.We played plenty of it, and to good effect. In fact a fair amount of those headed goals were a direct result of quickly getting the ball into good positions out wide. We havent managed that this season a) because we take too long to get up the pitch and b) we don't have the players (Pelle sold, Long lacking confidence) Being sucked into a corner and hitting weak crosses out of desperation because you've got nowhere to go is in no way comparable to overrunning a team and having the space out wide to at least try and hit a decent ball in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iansums Posted 4 January, 2017 Share Posted 4 January, 2017 So why not do what most clubs do....change where you have to strongest side out get the game won then substitute. Please again name me a successful side that changes 3 of back 4? If you have played in good teams you will know you build up partnerships and patterns of play. You know what your mate is doing how is that possible with 6 changes most weeks? Linekar tweeted this and MLT agreed Last season Leicester made fewer changes than any side: won league. This season Chelsea have made fewest: top of league. Rotation sucks. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Last season Leicester weren't in Europe and this season Chelsea aren't, if you are not in Europe there is no need to rotate the squad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Give it to Ron Posted 4 January, 2017 Share Posted 4 January, 2017 Last season Leicester weren't in Europe and this season Chelsea aren't, if you are not in Europe there is no need to rotate the squad. Agreed but is there a need for 6 changes every game? Still waiting for someone to answer the question on back four. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shroppie Posted 4 January, 2017 Share Posted 4 January, 2017 Agreed but is there a need for 6 changes every game? Still waiting for someone to answer the question on back four. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk I'd say no. The players most likely to need resting are box to box midfielders and attacking fullbacks. But we seem to have too many players with low fitness levels who can't regularly even last 90 mins. And that's plating at a low tempo. This team is far less fit than under Poch, or even Adkins or WGS! Sent from my D6503 using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lighthouse Posted 4 January, 2017 Share Posted 4 January, 2017 In fairness he has more cause to be annoyed than any if this is all true. He got well into double figures in basically half a season last season playing a more pacy, attacking style. He got just into double figures - 10 - in the whole season. He got 2 in the first half and 8 in the second. 8 in half a season is decent, not incredible, but decent. He could have scored double figures at the Emirates this season but was completely wasteful. We said that plenty of times last season too. 8 goals in half a year is not representative of his career. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greenridge Posted 4 January, 2017 Share Posted 4 January, 2017 Last season Leicester weren't in Europe and this season Chelsea aren't, if you are not in Europe there is no need to rotate the squad. We played 6 games over a near 3 month period in the Europa League. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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