Puel In / Out 2017 Edition

[Heisenberg]

Haha fair enough, I can only speak personally I guess and I wasn't feeling the same way this time last season. Seems some were however

 

Lets hope Puel does turn the corner like Koeman did.

 

Guess i was probably more patient as he'd built up some goodwill in his first season finishing 7th despite the £105m outgoing transfers that summer

[doddisalegend]

Cheers trousers

 

All sounds very familiar to the current threads just swap Koeman with Puel and those quotes could have been written yesterday.....

[dronskisaint]

Maybe but I don't remember Koeman to be sacked polls with more wanting him out than in

 

I don't remember one poll let alone two and let's not forget that we had already had a good season under him.

 

This second poll only really shows how knee-jerk a percentage of our supporters are in that it can swing from one 'conclusion' to another on the basis of a few days! We should probably also remember what a tiny percentage of Saints supporter base actually posts on here....and there's a very high (naturally...I understand the need for a connection for those who live away) percentage that don't attend matches - the atmosphere around where I stand at home matches (Block 39) is far more stoic, supportive and understanding than the impression you would get just from reading this and other forums.

[doddisalegend]

I don't remember one poll let alone two and let's not forget that we had already had a good season under him.

 

This second poll only really shows how knee-jerk a percentage of our supporters are in that it can swing from one 'conclusion' to another on the basis of a few days! We should probably also remember what a tiny percentage of Saints supporter base actually posts on here....and there's a very high (naturally...I understand the need for a connection for those who live away) percentage that don't attend matches - the atmosphere around where I stand at home matches (Block 39) is far more stoic, supportive and understanding than the impression you would get just from reading this and other forums.

 

 

Before the Everton game Solent interviewed a couple of saints fans at the game they seemed rather articulate and sensible in their opinions that I wasn't sure they were real saints fans after so much exposure to this place..

[Super_Uwe]

It's 25 years ago this year that I went to watch my very first Saints game at The Dell (we beat QPR 2-1). As an 8 year old, I had no idea who the hell Ian Branfoot was, but looking back now I realise that his time in charge was seriously unpopular and it probably wasn't the best time to become a Saints fan...

 

For the rest of the 90s, I used to love going to The Dell and have fond memories of the teams we had. Was also lucky enough to see Matt Le Tiss playing at his peak (although still a bit too young to really appreciate how good he was). But we were favourites for relegation pretty much every single season, with a couple of mid-table finishes in between. But we managed to survive year after year, and that was success to me as a Saints fan.

 

Towards the end of the decade and into the 00s, we finally start to establish ourselves as a mid-table Premier League team. And of course we had "that season" in 02/03 where we finished EIGHTH and got to the FA Cup Final (no I haven't forgotten Rupey!).

 

Then the wheels started to fall off big time, and we got relegated in 2005. We all hoped we'd be back in the Premier League before too long, but each year we got progressively worse (as did the finances!). Of course we managed to stay up on the last day in 2008, but one year later we were relegated to League One with the club almost going bust. Thankfully since then of course we've kind of done alright to be honest...

 

So what has this got to do with Puel? If this is supposed to be such a bad time, why don't I feel angry towards the bloke?

 

I'll tell you why - because it isn't anywhere near a bad time. This is the best period in our club's history for the past 25 years, arguably the past 30-35 years when we had our best ever finishes in Division One. If you can't see the good times now then you never will, Puel or no Puel.

[broken spoke]

What i think everyone is forgetting, last season with Koeman, we had our dips, we were still always trying to play exciting football, and it was fast, counter attacking with a high press at times. This season it is slow and miserable, and like watching paint dry.

 

We can forgive the form of the team, just give us something exciting to watch.

[shurlock]

What i think everyone is forgetting, last season with Koeman, we had our dips, we were still always trying to play exciting football, and it was fast, counter attacking with a high press at times. This season it is slow and miserable, and like watching paint dry.

 

We can forgive the form of the team, just give us something exciting to watch.

 

No it wasn't. We never pressed particularly high under RK. The football was often very direct and agricultural. What redeemed Koeman, even during sticky spells, was his pragmatism.

 

You'll find plenty of threads bemoaning our lack of creativity and lack of goals. We turned things around in the second half of the season, though that was more due to the personnel RK had at his disposal than his tactical nous or footballing philosophy.

[adrian lord]

It's 25 years ago this year that I went to watch my very first Saints game at The Dell (we beat QPR 2-1). As an 8 year old, I had no idea who the hell Ian Branfoot was, but looking back now I realise that his time in charge was seriously unpopular and it probably wasn't the best time to become a Saints fan...

 

For the rest of the 90s, I used to love going to The Dell and have fond memories of the teams we had. Was also lucky enough to see Matt Le Tiss playing at his peak (although still a bit too young to really appreciate how good he was). But we were favourites for relegation pretty much every single season, with a couple of mid-table finishes in between. But we managed to survive year after year, and that was success to me as a Saints fan.

 

Towards the end of the decade and into the 00s, we finally start to establish ourselves as a mid-table Premier League team. And of course we had "that season" in 02/03 where we finished EIGHTH and got to the FA Cup Final (no I haven't forgotten Rupey!).

 

Then the wheels started to fall off big time, and we got relegated in 2005. We all hoped we'd be back in the Premier League before too long, but each year we got progressively worse (as did the finances!). Of course we managed to stay up on the last day in 2008, but one year later we were relegated to League One with the club almost going bust. Thankfully since then of course we've kind of done alright to be honest...

 

So what has this got to do with Puel? If this is supposed to be such a bad time, why don't I feel angry towards the bloke?

 

I'll tell you why - because it isn't anywhere near a bad time. This is the best period in our club's history for the past 25 years, arguably the past 30-35 years when we had our best ever finishes in Division One. If you can't see the good times now then you never will, Puel or no Puel.

 

I think part of the problem with contemporary perceptions is because Kruger and the Club were happy to take the credit for our year on year rises and then peddle the Europa League -> top4 ->Champions League dream as the goal. Which clearly it isn't any longer, after the tepid way we threw the 2 EL campaigns and the downturn in investment quality.

[mrfahaji]

What i think everyone is forgetting, last season with Koeman, we had our dips, we were still always trying to play exciting football, and it was fast, counter attacking with a high press at times. This season it is slow and miserable, and like watching paint dry.

 

We can forgive the form of the team, just give us something exciting to watch.

 

It's amazing how "winning football" quickly morphs into "exciting football" in the giddy haze of people's memories.

[benjii]

It's amazing how "winning football" quickly morphs into "exciting football" in the giddy haze of people's memories.

 

Quite.

 

We rarely pressed high with Koeman and we often played some pretty turgid stuff.

 

If we had just scored a few more goals at home this season there wouldn't be this incessant whining about "boredom".

[bungle]

Voted In because I am not an utter moron.

 

That's my high quality response to this post. The utter disdain it deserves.

[Heisenberg]

Jeff is right this is like Brexit - the minority hating on the majority and resorting to insults to let of steam.

[Whitey Grandad]

Voted In because I am not an utter moron.

 

That's my high quality response to this post. The utter disdain it deserves.

 

Might I just ask... do you like the type of football that we have played this season?

[Lord Duckhunter]

Quite.

 

We rarely pressed high with Koeman and we often played some pretty turgid stuff.

 

If we had just scored a few more goals at home this season there wouldn't be this incessant whining about "boredom".

 

Exactly.

 

West Brom away

Watford away

Bournemouth away

Palace away

West Ham away

Norwich away

 

We're games I travelled to and was as bad as anything I've seen this season. Even Villa away was one of the sloppiest defensive performances I've seen for a number of years.

 

When you add the Everton, Villa, Stoke home games and the embarrassing cup exit 6-1 , and the FA cup lasted one home game. The EL was humiliating , the tactics as we went out were a real throwback to Branfoots days. Worse than any tactics employed by Puel .

 

All water under the bridge , but here's my main point. All the above were with Mane& Vic. Two of the leagues best players.

 

I could just about accept people saying " I wanted Koeman out & now I want Puel out". But they won't say that because they were wrong then and it also shows how fickle and knee jerk they are . Instead the wrap it up in "style of play" or " dressing room unrest" or he's " out of his depth". Laughably claiming that they " knew Ron would turn it round". Tactically Bournemouth & West Ham away were as good as anything Ron produced . What we haven't had is the barnstorming home performances, but put Mane in and maybe we would have done so.

 

Surely having a manager genuinely interested in promoting youth and making young players better is a far better way to go then somebody who wants an instant side, to further his career. Who knows we may even get him to hang around a while , rather than bugger off as soon as they receive a better offer.

 

 

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Batman]

well, it seems there is a fair amount of non-puel fans around.

outside of the mong-board loons

[Pamplemousse]

I will hold my hands up as being someone this time last year who wouldn't have been sad to see Koeman go.

 

I was wrong then and I'm confident that things will turn around in the next few league games.

 

Even under Pochettino we had our dodgy moments. QPR at home, Cardiff at home, West Brom at home

[doddisalegend]

Might I just ask... do you like the type of football that we have played this season?

 

To be honest it looks pretty much like the football we served up most of last season....

[doddisalegend]

Another thread from December 2015

 

http://www.saintsweb.co.uk/showthread.php?55635-Has-Koeman-lost-it&highlight=koeman+lost

 

just a few quotes from the first page

 

"Not saying he can't change things around but he's been poor on a number of levels recently, baffingling tactics poor subs, poor motivation of players.

 

It feels like he has run out of ideas & lost interest, def wont be staying past his contract, I think we need a change after this season."

 

" I don't think it's much to do with koeman, it's a lot to do with the personnel we have left. Morgan is a huge loss that we haven't recovered from and we don't have enough pace to scare any teams. We've tried a few things now and most of the games recently have been depressingly similar and boring."

 

"He says we're taking too many risks, I say we're not taking enough. At one point today I saw the ball go into Long who was ahead of his man out on the wing, but instead of running on past him he took a touch and laid it off to Davis. Just strange.

Also bizarre is the fact that Mane is played so deep, he takes it past 2, 3 sometimes 4 players when he gets it - so stick him up front, let him take it past one and be through on goal!

 

There were some very good passing moves from Saints today and some very good chances created. Biggest plus - Gazzanigas confidence will absolutely skyrocket and we may start to see more from him. I'd keep him in goal for Spurs." #

 

"Get a grip seriously mate.

 

This is a result of the board flogging the spine of the team every season.

 

I have zero time for people on discussing "Koeman out" style topics, utter joke and an unreal level of bedwetting"

 

"I don't want rid of Koeman, but he has been abysmal this season. I think he's been easily pleased, not taken responsibility, made too many changes, weird tactics and got most decisions badly wrong.

 

But sacking him would be a short term fix and make us just like every other club. I can handle a sh1t season, but he needs to learn from it, sort it out and move forward. I don't mind finishing 13th or 14th if we try and play some decent creative football, give some attacking players a chance, but right now it's just tedious dross."

 

not to many signs of people praising Koeman's exciting attacking football

[adrian lord]

Jeff is right this is like Brexit - the minority hating on the majority and resorting to insults to let of steam.

 

Uncanny, isn't it?

[Unbelievable Jeff]

Jeff is right this is like Brexit - the minority hating on the majority and resorting to insults to let of steam.

 

It's because we cannot fathom how people can be THAT stupid.

[Saint86]

I'm just checking here in the hope that something has changed. Puel is gone, the board have gone, or some sign that we have some actual ambition other than for the owners and board to just make money out of the club.

 

Sadly i've not seen anything to offer excitement.

[Whitey Grandad]

I'm just checking here in the hope that something has changed. Puel is gone, the board have gone, or some sign that we have some actual ambition other than for the owners and board to just make money out of the club.

 

Sadly i've not seen anything to offer excitement.

Either on the pitch or off it?

[SOTONS EAST SIDE]

I think its Puel's constantly implying the amount of Good Possibilities and team spirit, (or lack of, plus lack of goals, shots on target, Crab like negative style), and the not needing to go into the transfer market (or maybe they are. and its a secret. or they are blind to obvious). And the boards deafly silence on the current situation ( Or Silence is golden). Which riles people up!!!!

[Dark Munster]

For the first 20 minutes or so against Spurs the team played some breathtaking football, with an early lead (by a defender from a corner). Then Spurs got an equaliser against the run of play, and the wheels fell off. My point is that we've potentially got a good team and manager, but unless the club brings in a quality striker pronto the confidence will continue to go down, with players knowing any excellent approach play likely won't be rewarded, and any mistake in defence will likely be fatal since we'll unlikely be able to come back with our impotent "strike force".

Edited 4 January, 2017 by Dark Munster

[St Marco]

Too early to judge for me. One thing is for sure though we are now an ultra defensive team set up not to get beat. When we need a goal to chase a game we never change style. That is my main gripe. It is such boring football and so predictable. Unless we can sort out how to attack soon we will slip further down the table. It is one thing playing well and getting beat, it is something else when you play bad and still get beat.

[Foxstone]

Caught in two minds here... I am very disappointed with our attacking style (or rather lack of it), and I guess that really hit home and still lives with me after the Beer'Sheva match in which we did not trouble a limited side at all and went crashing out of Europe.

 

On the flip side, I cannot see an obvious replacement should Puel go. I greatly admire Gary Rowett but I'm unsure if he can cut a big job such as ours with some pretty big egos to manage.

 

So at the moment, I am just erring towards holding tight for the next 3 games or so to see if much required improvements follow. However, my own instincts tell me it won't.

[mrfahaji]

For the first 20 minutes or so against Spurs the team played some breathtaking football, with an early lead (by a defender from a corner). Then Spurs got an equaliser against the run of play, and the wheels fell off. My point is that we've potentially got a good team and manager, but unless the club brings in a quality striker pronto the confidence will continue to go down, with players knowing any excellent approach play likely won't be rewarded, and any mistake in defence will likely be fatal since we'll unlikely be able to come back with our impotent "strike force".

 

Agree with this, our morale and corresponding energy levels seem to fall off a cliff easily at the moment, but are not necessarily bad from the off.

 

I voted in, but worth noting that if we lose to Burnley we could find ourselves in 15th. Looking at the fixtures, only Leicester have a game you'd be surprised to see them win, so 14th is more than possible, and as much as Burnley are a side we would naturally hope to beat, at home they are a tricky outfit.

 

Just seen Puel's down to between 7 and 10/1 on oddschecker for next manager to be sacked. The next, as yet unappointed Hull manager is 6th favourite Imagine that.

[Cartman]

Too early to judge for me. One thing is for sure though we are now an ultra defensive team set up not to get beat. When we need a goal to chase a game we never change style. That is my main gripe. It is such boring football and so predictable. Unless we can sort out how to attack soon we will slip further down the table. It is one thing playing well and getting beat, it is something else when you play bad and still get beat.

 

When your goalkeeper lets in any shot on target that isn't hit straight at him, then your biggest concern will be to ensure the other team don't take any shots even if that means that you will create fewer chances yourself, more so when you know your players would have missed most of them anyway.

[Whitey Grandad]

When your goalkeeper lets in any shot on target that isn't hit straight at him, then your biggest concern will be to ensure the other team don't take any shots even if that means that you will create fewer chances yourself, more so when you know your players would have missed most of them anyway.

 

I can't believe that you're blaming Forster. In other news, I see that Petr Cech has let in the last 13 penalties that were taken against him.

[badgerx16]

What would the outcome be if we held an 'Eric Black - in or out ?' poll ?

[eurosaint]

With a heavy heart and against my better judgement, I voted OUT !

Normally I would opt for stability BUT from the very beginning I have never been able to understand what Claude is on about and I'd be surprised if the players do either (I realise that his English is limited but I don't that is the main issue) ! He reminds me of a former French colleague who also talked gibberish and although unintentional it caused serious disharmony within the working group!

I've no idea whether he has lost the dressing room but if he has then I'd cut and run !

[The Fat Controller]

Simple to see is Saints have no plan b

 

Personally I think that the Les Reed PR stuff over the last couple of years have been farcical

Alderweireld - kept saying we were in talks

Koeman - similar false hopes being raised

 

Now no word from Senior board, dressing room bust up, Puel not cutting it

 

This list is endless

 

Selling the Rolls Royce cheaply and replacing it with a skoda don't wash.

The average bloke in the stand at St Mary's earns £300 ave take home and we pay over 10% of that for premier home games

 

So much for the Southampton Way - back now to being in the gutter like The Lowe days

 

For the sake of the club Krueger and Liebherr need to get rid of Les Reed, Eric Black , and Claude Puel immediately

 

Hoddle is who we need now - premier league knowledge , good with youth, and English

[St.JonB]

Just voted out. We used to keep the bad news to the summer transfer window but now we have stared in January as well it's really worrying. There is something really wrong with the club at the moment, a change of manager might not help but I'm sure Puel is not the man to move us on.

[Dusic]

Puel in. He has been dealt a tough hand in many ways with limited possibilities.

 

Give him a chance to mould his own side.

[Shance]

Hearing rumors he's resigned??

[SKD]

Hearing rumors he's resigned??

 

Where? Can't imagine this is true

[Heisenberg]

Hearing rumors he's resigned??

 

I expect that to be the way he goes TBH. Sacking him is an acknowledgement from Reed that he made a mistake

 

"Resigning" with a nice BIG payoff means less egg on Reeds face.

[Patrick Bateman]

Hearing rumours that Shance has deleted his Saintsweb account!!

[Badger]

Hearing rumors he's resigned??

 

Where does that come from, this time of night ?

[simo]

Where does that come from, this time of night ?

 

His imagination

[shurlock]

Hearing rumors he's resigned??

 

 

You utter helmet

[Ultimatt]

In.

 

He's inherited the weakest squad we've had in years.

Our best 2 attacking players (Boufal and Austin) have both played less than half the season and barely played together.

He's been undermined by Fonte and possibly other players.

He's given our academy players a chance again.

Our attackers can't score, our keeper can't save. Despite at times creating a lot of chances, and consistently conceding very few chances against, No goals, no clean sheets.

 

He deserves until the end of the season to see where we end up. Going down to 1 week a game will make a huge difference in letting him pick what he thinks is his best team; then we can judge him if his choices don't work.

[Batman]

Reed says Puel is the right man for the job

 

Similar situation last season

Have sat did with claude and the coaching team to discuss where we are

we are confident that we have learned a lot from the quick turn around of games recently

after january, the number of games even out as first half of the season was incredible, 3 games a week mostly

Claude has not had much opportunity to do much coaching to impress his way on the team

The ability to have the players to do functional training sessions has been very limited

Claude is the long term future of this club

We picked claude for his european experience, which we hope to use on a regular basis

has has produced world class players like Thierry Henry

He himself feels excited about working with our young players

it takes time

Look at the great work he has done with McQueen, Sims and Clasie

That is why we bought Hoijberg

We expect to be 'best of the rest' but claude needs time

 

 

 

 

So, we got puel to have regular european experience, to produce world class players and we expect to be 'best of the rest' under him

How much of the above can be added to Reed's Spin sheet in the near future?

[Saints foreva]

Shame Blackmore or Leitch didn't get an opinion on the dull as **** football Puel has us playing.

[Heisenberg]

Once bitten twice shy......

 

Reed/Southampton has dated the babes (Mopo/Koeman) and has been badly hurt when they left us/him, now Reed is being cautious - want an easy life, get an ugly wife!!

 

Stick with Puel as he is the equivalent of the chick nobody wants, but you try and convince all your mates that she’s got a great personality and that’s all that counts.

[Sour Mash]

In.

 

He's inherited the weakest squad we've had in years.

Our best 2 attacking players (Boufal and Austin) have both played less than half the season and barely played together.

He's been undermined by Fonte and possibly other players.

He's given our academy players a chance again.

Our attackers can't score, our keeper can't save. Despite at times creating a lot of chances, and consistently conceding very few chances against, No goals, no clean sheets.

 

He deserves until the end of the season to see where we end up. Going down to 1 week a game will make a huge difference in letting him pick what he thinks is his best team; then we can judge him if his choices don't work.

Pretty much this. Would be ridiculous to overreact and get rid now.

[Patrick Bateman]

Reed says Puel is the right man for the job

 

Similar situation last season

Have sat did with claude and the coaching team to discuss where we are

we are confident that we have learned a lot from the quick turn around of games recently

after january, the number of games even out as first half of the season was incredible, 3 games a week mostly

Claude has not had much opportunity to do much coaching to impress his way on the team

The ability to have the players to do functional training sessions has been very limited

Claude is the long term future of this club

We picked claude for his european experience, which we hope to use on a regular basis

has has produced world class players like Thierry Henry

He himself feels excited about working with our young players

it takes time

Look at the great work he has done with McQueen, Sims and Clasie

That is why we bought Hoijberg

We expect to be 'best of the rest' but claude needs time

 

 

 

 

So, we got puel to have regular european experience, to produce world class players and we expect to be 'best of the rest' under him

How much of the above can be added to Reed's Spin sheet in the near future?

 

All sounds like a sensible plan to me. I think we'll all take the 'best of the rest' as being a sensible & realistic target - but a cup final will be nice! Actually, a win as I'm sure it'll be more likely we'll get back into Europe that way than finishing 7th (best of the rest position)?

[John Boy Saint]

I have to admit in light of recent rumours, where this poll is concerned I have splinters in my backside.

I think Puel is capable of doing the job, and as mentioned before I have watched him on the sidelines doing his nut especially when the team on the pitch has repeatedly played the ball the same route up the pitch and it's just produced the same breaking down and coming back at us result.

This Eric Black business though, the guy was brought in, from recollection, primarily to help Claude out with his English because Black speaks fluent French. As has been said and backed up with results his coaching record is pretty turgid. When you see the guy he always looks a bit sour faced, even in that Telegraph exposé I don't think he cracked a smile once. But going back to this translator business, made me think of a situation we have at work where we deal with Chinese factories and have a Chinese national working for us here in the UK, at a trade show in China last year we blagged a bit of lunch off a supplier negotiated through our Chinese person when we sat down only 2 items of the 6 ordered where there, when we asked our person made excuses about the missing items and they said they were not available, which we knew was not right. This got us thinking that as we went round the show and asked them to ask a supplier a particular question, whether that actual question was asked as our own Manderin was nowhere near possible of knowing for sure.

With this in mind and the "primary purpose" of Blacks position, how much of Claude's instruction is translated to how Black thinks it should be done.

Might explain why Boufal sparkles as he speaks French so understands exactly what Claude wants, without the instruction being lost in translation.

 

As an aside to my musings here, if Black is the translator AND assistant, strange how you very rarely see him come to the line in games to bark out an instruction, whereas under the Koemans Dave Watson was often out in the technical area barking out instruction.

[Wade Garrett]

I have to admit in light of recent rumours, where this poll is concerned I have splinters in my backside.

I think Puel is capable of doing the job, and as mentioned before I have watched him on the sidelines doing his nut especially when the team on the pitch has repeatedly played the ball the same route up the pitch and it's just produced the same breaking down and coming back at us result.

This Eric Black business though, the guy was brought in, from recollection, primarily to help Claude out with his English because Black speaks fluent French. As has been said and backed up with results his coaching record is pretty turgid. When you see the guy he always looks a bit sour faced, even in that Telegraph exposé I don't think he cracked a smile once. But going back to this translator business, made me think of a situation we have at work where we deal with Chinese factories and have a Chinese national working for us here in the UK, at a trade show in China last year we blagged a bit of lunch off a supplier negotiated through our Chinese person when we sat down only 2 items of the 6 ordered where there, when we asked our person made excuses about the missing items and they said they were not available, which we knew was not right. This got us thinking that as we went round the show and asked them to ask a supplier a particular question, whether that actual question was asked as our own Manderin was nowhere near possible of knowing for sure.

With this in mind and the "primary purpose" of Blacks position, how much of Claude's instruction is translated to how Black thinks it should be done.

Might explain why Boufal sparkles as he speaks French so understands exactly what Claude wants, without the instruction being lost in translation.

 

As an aside to my musings here, if Black is the translator AND assistant, strange how you very rarely see him come to the line in games to bark out an instruction, whereas under the Koemans Dave Watson was often out in the technical area barking out instruction.

 

Cant see that. Black wasn't brought in as a translator. He goes way back with Puel and Reed seemed to rate him. It would have been considerably cheaper to just appoint a translator rather than Black.

[adrian lord]

Reed saying Puel is the man. Let's hold that. No mention of Black, which is interesting.

 

Doesn't make sense that Black was employed largely as a translator for Puel. Much cheaper to hire a sessional translator as we did with Poch. Black's role and influence clearly substantial and possibly damaging.

 

If Black's the problem rather than Puel, sack him. Then strongly and publicly back Puel, and sell persistent trouble-makers in the team, whoever they are.