What is so difficult to understand?

[meatball]

I'll keep it short. We sign very promising players on the basis that, should they perform well for us, they will have the opportunity to move on and play for a top side, earn top money and win medals.

 

Here are the players I believe would not have signed for us had we not been a "shop window" for bigger clubs.

 

VVD

Boufal

Mane

Wanyama

Tadic

Cedric

Martina (only joking)

Forster (maybe)

Lovren

Bertrand

Romeu

Clyne

Clasie

Ramirez

 

There are more I'm sure, and obviously some have not quite made the grade, but all this talk about us having a title challenging team if we didn't sell our best players, i disagree. If we didn't sell our best players, the majority of our best players would never have come here in the first place.

 

It's not a perfect model but it is rather watch Boufal turn people inside out whilst learning his trade with us, than watch Chris Brunt or Ryan Shawcross dry hump people in the penalty area for 90 minutes.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[CB Fry]

100% correct but it won't go down well in these parts. Well done for trying though.

[hypochondriac]

Oh I agree and I think most people have got used to this. It was a lot easier to handle though when the football was better and we didn't throw away our chance for more European games in such a pathetic manner. If we are going to play like we have this season then frankly I'd rather give some lesser players like brunt a go.

[cellone]

Players are going to have to really stand out if we're expecting top dollar and they're waiting for the big move. I agree that being a stepping stone/shop window club is the reason we persuade players that would usually bypass us to come here.

[Singapore Saint]

The club should hire you as Public Relations Officer, you do make a very good case.

[Toomer]

Since we have been back in the Prem we have been seen as a stepping stone club for players and for managers in some cases.

[ally_uk]

What is hard to understand? In comparison to the big Boys we are small time. Put yourself in the shoes of Virgil for example.

Do you stay at saints achieving mid table / top 7 where the majority of fans are a bunch of drips. Playing dull uninspired football / carrying the rest of the team or do you got to a bigger club with better opportunities better management / triple your wages sorry lads it's a nobrainer...... Unless we can offer these players better wages it will continue.

[Heisenberg]

You make it sound like we are being given a unique opportunity to showcase the world's top footballing talent and we should be eternally grateful - we are not and I'm not.

 

We are doing nothing particularly different to any team our size. Buying players from smaller clubs/leagues.... the difference between us and say Stoke or Everton is we then sell again at the first opportunity. We are financially not honours obsessed.

 

Our managers/players are not moving to Europes elite clubs (Real, Barca, Bayern, PSG) we sell to Liverpool and Everton and Spurs our closest league rivals

 

Wanyama for example isnt world class - hes just a decent premier league midfielder and wanted a payrise and chance to win a medal or two in his career. He didnt want 250k a week, no he signed for Spurs on 70k a week a reasonable wage in our league now - same as clubs like Middlesbrough and Palace and WBA pay.

 

If you simply bend over as soon as super clubs like Spurs and Liverpool come calling how do you ever close the gap and become the new Liverpool or mighty spurs?

[CB Fry]

You make it sound like we are being given a unique opportunity to showcase the world's top footballing talent and we should be eternally grateful - we are not and I'm not.

 

We are doing nothing particularly different to any team our size. Buying players from smaller clubs/leagues.... the difference between us and say Stoke or Everton is we then sell again at the first opportunity. We are financially not honours obsessed.

 

Our managers/players are not moving to Europes elite clubs (Real, Barca, Bayern, PSG) we sell to Liverpool and Everton and Spurs our closest league rivals

 

Wanyama for example isnt world class - hes just a decent premier league midfielder and wanted a payrise and chance to win a medal or two in his career. He didnt want 250k a week, no he signed for Spurs on 70k a week a reasonable wage in our league now - same as clubs like Middlesbrough and Palace and WBA pay.

 

If you simply bend over as soon as super clubs like Spurs and Liverpool come calling how do you ever close the gap and become the new Liverpool or mighty spurs?

Wincing as I read this effort. You'll never get snapped up to the wind-up merchant big five with dross like that. All over the place. 0.5/10.

[benjii]

Wincing as I read this effort. You'll never get snapped up to the wind-up merchant big five with dross like that. All over the place. 0.5/10.

 

Agreed. Disappointing

[whelk]

Hey if we didn't sell Lovren we'd have never seen VVD

[Convict Colony]

After a decent sleep I have reflected that the 1st half of our season "could" be an unfair representation of how our team and manager could perform.

 

Manager in a new league, lots of Europa games, playing more total games than we have every had to and having to rotate like it is going out of fashion has meant our quality has erroded over time by fatigue/unbalanced teams to lead to us becoming a poor pedestrian team.

 

If I step back to how we played in Aug/Sept before we really started to get the fixture pile ups (but we were playing claudes style) we were creating a lot of chances and were just frustrated that we needed so many chances to scored the below are our first 6 EPL games (yes I know shots isnt the best metric given what a "shot" can constitute).

 

V Watford - 24 shots (most)

v (A) Man U - 13 shots (most)

v Sunderland - 16 shots (most)

v (A) Arsenal - 11 shots

V Swansea - 19 shots (most)

v (A) West ham - 18 shots (most)

 

Average - 16.8 per game

 

Now the below for comparision are our last 3 EPL games

 

v Spurs - 9 shots

v WBA - 10 shots (most)

v (A) Everton - 12 shots

 

Average shots - 10.3 per game

 

So what do I hope happens now.

 

With no Europa and getting back to weekly games Claude reverts back to a more agressive approach to playing football as we no longer need to manage games with a possession based style of football.

 

He starts with a perferred team and manages the workload of the key players and limits the changes to normal game subs/injuries and our tempo of game play increases significantly.

 

If we do that then I think we have a good chance to go on a run but if we continue down the same path of the 1st half of the season then I think we will drop down the table and lurk around the bottom half for the rest of the season.

[Fan The Flames]

I want us to be honours obsessed like Stoke.

[OldNick]

I want us to be honours obsessed like Stoke.

or Leicester, and Stoke are playing better football than us.They also haven't had 10ms of income on player sales

[Unbelievable Jeff]

After a decent sleep I have reflected that the 1st half of our season "could" be an unfair representation of how our team and manager could perform.

 

Manager in a new league, lots of Europa games, playing more total games than we have every had to and having to rotate like it is going out of fashion has meant our quality has erroded over time by fatigue/unbalanced teams to lead to us becoming a poor pedestrian team.

 

If I step back to how we played in Aug/Sept before we really started to get the fixture pile ups (but we were playing claudes style) we were creating a lot of chances and were just frustrated that we needed so many chances to scored the below are our first 6 EPL games (yes I know shots isnt the best metric given what a "shot" can constitute).

 

V Watford - 24 shots (most)

v (A) Man U - 13 shots (most)

v Sunderland - 16 shots (most)

v (A) Arsenal - 11 shots

V Swansea - 19 shots (most)

v (A) West ham - 18 shots (most)

 

Average - 16.8 per game

 

Now the below for comparision are our last 3 EPL games

 

v Spurs - 9 shots

v WBA - 10 shots (most)

v (A) Everton - 12 shots

 

Average shots - 10.3 per game

 

So what do I hope happens now.

 

With no Europa and getting back to weekly games Claude reverts back to a more agressive approach to playing football as we no longer need to manage games with a possession based style of football.

 

He starts with a perferred team and manages the workload of the key players and limits the changes to normal game subs/injuries and our tempo of game play increases significantly.

 

If we do that then I think we have a good chance to go on a run but if we continue down the same path of the 1st half of the season then I think we will drop down the table and lurk around the bottom half for the rest of the season.

 

I think this just shows we should go back to the diamond.

[Charlie Wayman]

I'll keep it short. We sign very promising players on the basis that, should they perform well for us, they will have the opportunity to move on and play for a top side, earn top money and win medals.

 

Here are the players I believe would not have signed for us had we not been a "shop window" for bigger clubs.

 

VVD

Boufal

Mane

Wanyama

Tadic

Cedric

Martina (only joking)

Forster (maybe)

Lovren

Bertrand

Romeu

Clyne

Clasie

Ramirez

 

There are more I'm sure, and obviously some have not quite made the grade, but all this talk about us having a title challenging team if we didn't sell our best players, i disagree. If we didn't sell our best players, the majority of our best players would never have come here in the first place.

 

It's not a perfect model but it is rather watch Boufal turn people inside out whilst learning his trade with us, than watch Chris Brunt or Ryan Shawcross dry hump people in the penalty area for 90 minutes.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

This sort of thinking shows how low the expectations of some of our so-called fans have fallen. Quite depressing to read. Cheer up for goodness sake, we'll still have a club to support in 10 years time whoever comes or goes. Who is still here from 10 years ago upstairs or downstairs? Only US!

 

Try to keep some perspective even in rough times.

[shurlock]

You make it sound like we are being given a unique opportunity to showcase the world's top footballing talent and we should be eternally grateful - we are not and I'm not.

 

We are doing nothing particularly different to any team our size. Buying players from smaller clubs/leagues.... the difference between us and say Stoke or Everton is we then sell again at the first opportunity. We are financially not honours obsessed.

 

Our managers/players are not moving to Europes elite clubs (Real, Barca, Bayern, PSG) we sell to Liverpool and Everton and Spurs our closest league rivals

 

Wanyama for example isnt world class - hes just a decent premier league midfielder and wanted a payrise and chance to win a medal or two in his career. He didnt want 250k a week, no he signed for Spurs on 70k a week a reasonable wage in our league now - same as clubs like Middlesbrough and Palace and WBA pay.

 

If you simply bend over as soon as super clubs like Spurs and Liverpool come calling how do you ever close the gap and become the new Liverpool or mighty spurs?

 

7/10 clearly hit a nerve.

[shurlock]

Edit

Edited 3 January, 2017 by shurlock

[shurlock]

Edit

[Saint Billy]

Nothing new here, every club below the top 6 is a stepping stone club.

 

Unfortunately this club trys to have us believe that thats not the case, with this plan and that plan and the infamous 5 year plan.

 

What they can't seem to do is get a manager to buy into their plan because a decent manager wants success which he aint gonna get if his best players keep getting sold.

 

Simples.

[Saint Garrett]

Agree thats the model, and I have no problem if we are playing good football to watch, being proud of my team, and we're still winning games.

 

When it goes the other way, the football is dull and we're not getting results, then you have to question the board/manager. We may have replaced Mane with Boufal, and he looks a really good talent, but changing the system away from the norm for the last 4/5 years has caused us huge problems. We seem to be stuck between what the players seem to want to do (press) and what the manager seems to want to do (sit off). Losing Pelle has been catastrophic too as we have no focal point and no one to get on the end of crosses.

[meatball]

This sort of thinking shows how low the expectations of some of our so-called fans have fallen. Quite depressing to read. Cheer up for goodness sake, we'll still have a club to support in 10 years time whoever comes or goes. Who is still here from 10 years ago upstairs or downstairs? Only US!

 

Try to keep some perspective even in rough times.

 

I'm not sure who this is aimed at? Your response is a little confusing. Are you saying that my (and many other fans) expectations have fallen?

Au contraire, mine have never been higher, I am the eternal optimist when it comes to most things, especially saints. I really do believe we have another top six finish in our locker within the next few years.

 

Why was my post depressing to read!? I am a strong supporter of how our club is set up and despite feeling a little glum about recent results, I believe we will turn it around and have a good season. I've never seen a team suffer from the luck we have and the refereeing has been nothing short of terrible. To the point where you would be forgiven for thinking there was something fishy going on.

 

Call me a so called fan if you please, but I have had a season ticket for as long as I could afford one, I never boo my team, never jeer any of our players and I will always be this way as long as I feel the club and its players are being ethical and trying as hard as they can.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Fan The Flames]

or Leicester, and Stoke are playing better football than us.They also haven't had 10ms of income on player sales

 

Do you really think that Leicester's success was due to an honours obsessed policy? The Leicester win will be offered up in moronic arguements for years to come.

[Dangermouth]

There is nothing to 'misunderstand'. The question is whether or not it is palatable to the fan base. How many of us enjoy seeing those we have groomed go on to do much better than we are? How many of us at this point in time care so much about the fact that we went into liquidation in view of the situation with which we are now faced? The point about this is that those who still hark on about that come across as the type of person who lost their first love when they were 13, will never find the same again and now, aged 75 still go on about it. Or those who blather on about a questionable world cup win in 1966. Consign it to history.

 

Saints fans, at least those who saw the team back in the Dell days can remember some extremely good football. They can remember a team that could, on its day, play scintillating football and destroy the opposition and they can remember a team that had a form of pride in what it was and a club that had a certain feel to it.

 

The model you have described is short-term and subject to failure at any time as just a few decisions gone awry can bring it down; it is passionless, cynical, unloveable and frustrating and if it reflects the views of those who espouse it as a good model it reflects quite closely both the quite appalling tenure of Mr Lowe and a great deal that is indicative of the wrongs of what is deemed 'modern society' and those that support it. To use a phrase in a different manner than it is normally used in, it is 'anti-football'.

 

By and large a proper football fan, and that is not someone who cares too much about a balance sheet because they do not **** over numbers, cares about the things that are intangible and involve the things that human beings (not those who **** over numbers) care about. So in some ways those fans would probably rather see the youth fail than the current business model or players that did give their all. That has to be tempered with the desire to see good football (and even the many good players you have quoted have failed to do that) which is what many want to see and winning because that is now deemed a necessity because some (usually for reasons of gross stupidity) 'need' the club to be in the top tier.

 

Turning to the pronouncements of the club et al it seems to be the case that they wish to emulate the more successful clubs of the current era and the fans both want this and would like it (who would not) and there are many indications that this has had an effect on how the fans view the club. It could be that behind the scenes the new direction alluded to by Guan was one of simply looking to tread water by way of bringing through the youth players (many of whom, to be fair have shown signs of being players capable of playing at this level once they have found their feet over the next season or two) but that is unlikely to both satisfy the newer football fan who has more interest in things other than football (which is almost now a fashion accessory to many) or those who want to be competitive. And this is competitive sport after all.

 

I would suggest that it is you who misunderstands. What you misunderstand is football and football fans. If, ultimately, you cannot 'get' what I have said perhaps another pastime might provide you with more satisfaction. If you do then you will understand that to effectively do all the hard work, produce the goods and then be ignored and have others take the credit and reap the rewards (this current business model in many ways) is, or ought to be, deeply unsatisfying to anyone with any degree of self-respect and understanding of what constitutes good and bad, right and wrong.

[Forester]

I'm not sure who this is aimed at? Your response is a little confusing. Are you saying that my (and many other fans) expectations have fallen?

Au contraire, mine have never been higher, I am the eternal optimist when it comes to most things, especially saints. I really do believe we have another top six finish in our locker within the next few years.

 

Why was my post depressing to read!? I am a strong supporter of how our club is set up and despite feeling a little glum about recent results, I believe we will turn it around and have a good season. I've never seen a team suffer from the luck we have and the refereeing has been nothing short of terrible. To the point where you would be forgiven for thinking there was something fishy going on.

 

Call me a so called fan if you please, but I have had a season ticket for as long as I could afford one, I never boo my team, never jeer any of our players and I will always be this way as long as I feel the club and its players are being ethical and trying as hard as they can.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Well said meatball, you make perfect sense to me

[lobbster]

I am far from happy about the result and performances but lets have some perspective. We have been spoiled over the last 5-6 years. and have over performed over the last 3. Yep we are in a slump but ive seen another in a number of performances which i believe show we can not only start picking up results again but can play exciting attacking football.

 

I really don't know what people who are complaining about the perceived 'lack of ambition' from the board really expect. We aren't a top 6 club, we will always struggle to keep our top players if they are performing well.

 

Name me a team who have successfully kept its stars after interest from one of the top clubs has been shown? Look at the likes of Leicster, they have given Vardy, marhez new contracts and both are a shadow or the players they were past year. Even they couldn't keep their player of the season (Kante) and Leicester are now in a relegation battle. Wet brom refused to sell Berahino and 2 seasons later his career is in tatters and will go on a free in the summer (He was a £25m player 2 years ago), West Ham- Payet could have gone after a great first season, has been poor this year after signing a mega contract

 

 

The board always get top money for them when they are sold and they do dig thier heels in and get another season from them when we need to (Morgan, Victor, Pelle etc)

Its the way of the world when the bigger boys come calling we will always have to sell eventually. On the the whole they have always recruited well

 

The board have got it right alot more than they have got it wrong in recent years and for that they deserve allot more patient and faith than is been shown by most of the clowns on this forum. Most seem to want us to spend money for the sake of spending money. The Same people who were probably moaning that we didn't sign Zaza in the summer

[Poolesaint]

I am far from happy about the result and performances but lets have some perspective. We have been spoiled over the last 5-6 years. and have over performed over the last 3. Yep we are in a slump but ive seen another in a number of performances which i believe show we can not only start picking up results again but can play exciting attacking football.

 

I really don't know what people who are complaining about the perceived 'lack of ambition' from the board really expect. We aren't a top 6 club, we will always struggle to keep our top players if they are performing well.

 

Name me a team who have successfully kept its stars after interest from one of the top clubs has been shown? Look at the likes of Leicster, they have given Vardy, marhez new contracts and both are a shadow or the players they were past year. Even they couldn't keep their player of the season (Kante) and Leicester are now in a relegation battle. Wet brom refused to sell Berahino and 2 seasons later his career is in tatters and will go on a free in the summer (He was a £25m player 2 years ago), West Ham- Payet could have gone after a great first season, has been poor this year after signing a mega contract

 

 

The board always get top money for them when they are sold and they do dig thier heels in and get another season from them when we need to (Morgan, Victor, Pelle etc)

Its the way of the world when the bigger boys come calling we will always have to sell eventually. On the the whole they have always recruited well

 

The board have got it right alot more than they have got it wrong in recent years and for that they deserve allot more patient and faith than is been shown by most of the clowns on this forum. Most seem to want us to spend money for the sake of spending money. The Same people who were probably moaning that we didn't sign Zaza in the summer

 

Well said

 

 

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[Bstokesaint]

I am far from happy about the result and performances but lets have some perspective. We have been spoiled over the last 5-6 years. and have over performed over the last 3. Yep we are in a slump but ive seen another in a number of performances which i believe show we can not only start picking up results again but can play exciting attacking football.

 

I really don't know what people who are complaining about the perceived 'lack of ambition' from the board really expect. We aren't a top 6 club, we will always struggle to keep our top players if they are performing well.

 

Name me a team who have successfully kept its stars after interest from one of the top clubs has been shown? Look at the likes of Leicster, they have given Vardy, marhez new contracts and both are a shadow or the players they were past year. Even they couldn't keep their player of the season (Kante) and Leicester are now in a relegation battle. Wet brom refused to sell Berahino and 2 seasons later his career is in tatters and will go on a free in the summer (He was a £25m player 2 years ago), West Ham- Payet could have gone after a great first season, has been poor this year after signing a mega contract

 

 

The board always get top money for them when they are sold and they do dig thier heels in and get another season from them when we need to (Morgan, Victor, Pelle etc)

Its the way of the world when the bigger boys come calling we will always have to sell eventually. On the the whole they have always recruited well

 

The board have got it right alot more than they have got it wrong in recent years and for that they deserve allot more patient and faith than is been shown by most of the clowns on this forum. Most seem to want us to spend money for the sake of spending money. The Same people who were probably moaning that we didn't sign Zaza in the summer

 

Well said

 

We have been spoilt rotten since Markus turned up. Since getting back to the premier league we've been a selling club (same as everyone outside top 5/6) but we've still been lucky enough to have played great football under top managers.

 

This season our sales/recruitment hasn't been as good and our new manager has struggled with a weakened squad playing more games than previously and it's caught up with us. Simple

 

Let's see how we get on with one game per week and fingers crossed a signing or two

[kitch]

I am far from happy about the result and performances but lets have some perspective. We have been spoiled over the last 5-6 years. and have over performed over the last 3. Yep we are in a slump but ive seen another in a number of performances which i believe show we can not only start picking up results again but can play exciting attacking football.

 

I really don't know what people who are complaining about the perceived 'lack of ambition' from the board really expect. We aren't a top 6 club, we will always struggle to keep our top players if they are performing well.

 

Name me a team who have successfully kept its stars after interest from one of the top clubs has been shown? Look at the likes of Leicster, they have given Vardy, marhez new contracts and both are a shadow or the players they were past year. Even they couldn't keep their player of the season (Kante) and Leicester are now in a relegation battle. Wet brom refused to sell Berahino and 2 seasons later his career is in tatters and will go on a free in the summer (He was a £25m player 2 years ago), West Ham- Payet could have gone after a great first season, has been poor this year after signing a mega contract

 

 

The board always get top money for them when they are sold and they do dig thier heels in and get another season from them when we need to (Morgan, Victor, Pelle etc)

Its the way of the world when the bigger boys come calling we will always have to sell eventually. On the the whole they have always recruited well

 

The board have got it right alot more than they have got it wrong in recent years and for that they deserve allot more patient and faith than is been shown by most of the clowns on this forum. Most seem to want us to spend money for the sake of spending money. The Same people who were probably moaning that we didn't sign Zaza in the summer

 

Spot-on there.

[Nordic Saint]

Complete and utter rubbish. Most of those players were unknowns when Paul Mitchell spotted them and would have been happy to come to any Premier League club. Mitchell was, admittedly, a brilliant head of recruitment and that's how we got them.

 

If Les and Kat weren't so desperate to cash in on them at the earliest opportunity, the players would be with us for longer and we might actually win something. But, Paul Mitchell, the creator of the black box, has gone and nowadays we're getting the mediocre signings that other clubs don't want like Nathan Redmond and Jeremy Pied and equally poor managerial appointments like Eric Black.

 

Van Dijk was the last of the players Paul Mitchell identified for Saints. Meanwhile in Spurs' last game, there were 6 of Mitchell's players in the starting lineup : Dele Alli, Son Heung-Min, Wanyama, Alderweireld, Wimmer and Trippier.

 

The good news is Mitchell has handed in his notice at Tottenham and he would be the ideal replacement for Les Reed when he retires at 65 this year.

[SW5 SAINT]

Hey if we didn't sell Lovren we'd have never seen VVD

 

Or rather if we hadn't let Toby slip through our fingers................

[DuncanRG]

Complete and utter rubbish. Most of those players were unknowns when Paul Mitchell spotted them and would have been happy to come to any Premier League club. Mitchell was, admittedly, a brilliant head of recruitment and that's how we got them.

 

If Les and Kat weren't so desperate to cash in on them at the earliest opportunity, the players would be with us for longer and we might actually win something. But, Paul Mitchell, the creator of the black box, has gone and nowadays we're getting the mediocre signings that other clubs don't want like Nathan Redmond and Jeremy Pied and equally poor managerial appointments like Eric Black.

 

Van Dijk was the last of the players Paul Mitchell identified for Saints. Meanwhile in Spurs' last game, there were 6 of Mitchell's players in the starting lineup : Dele Alli, Son Heung-Min, Wanyama, Alderweireld, Wimmer and Trippier.

 

The good news is Mitchell has handed in his notice at Tottenham and he would be the ideal replacement for Les Reed when he retires at 65 this year.

 

You'll note the players we didn't sell at the earliest opportunity - that is, almost all of them.

Edited 3 January, 2017 by DuncanRG

[adrian lord]

I'll keep it short. We sign very promising players on the basis that, should they perform well for us, they will have the opportunity to move on and play for a top side, earn top money and win medals.

 

Here are the players I believe would not have signed for us had we not been a "shop window" for bigger clubs.

 

VVD

Boufal

Mane

Wanyama

Tadic

Cedric

Martina (only joking)

Forster (maybe)

Lovren

Bertrand

Romeu

Clyne

Clasie

Ramirez

 

There are more I'm sure, and obviously some have not quite made the grade, but all this talk about us having a title challenging team if we didn't sell our best players, i disagree. If we didn't sell our best players, the majority of our best players would never have come here in the first place.

 

It's not a perfect model but it is rather watch Boufal turn people inside out whilst learning his trade with us, than watch Chris Brunt or Ryan Shawcross dry hump people in the penalty area for 90 minutes.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

Ralph's Europa and Champion's League ambitions:

 

"With continual growth and the opening up of the league and the parity of the league everybody has a shot at the Champions League....that we are striving for that over time is logical.

 

There are many different paths there, from winning the Europa League to finishing in the top four in the English Premier League...."

 

How does the Academy-Club model fit those lofty aims?

[cellone]

Or rather if we hadn't let Toby slip through our fingers................

 

Or we could have ended up with TA and VVD. dreams

[VectisSaint]

Let's see how we get on with one game per week and fingers crossed a signing or two

Indeed, another month and we could be entering into that scenario, assuming we exit the EFL and FA Cup. Meanwhile 7 games (at least) in the 28 days that follow Norwich means we will be playing twice a week until early February at least. At least as often if not more than we did when we were still in the EL. By February we could be well and truly buggered.

[CB Fry]

Indeed, another month and we could be entering into that scenario, assuming we exit the EFL and FA Cup. Meanwhile 7 games (at least) in the 28 days that follow Norwich means we will be playing twice a week until early February at least. At least as often if not more than we did when we were still in the EL. By February we could be well and truly buggered.

 

This time last year you were predicting that we would only win one more game in the season, meaning Newcastle would overtake us and we would be relegated because 40 points wouldn't be enough to stay up, as it was one of those seasons where 40 wouldn't be enough to stay up.

 

In fairness, you were only spectacularly wrong about every single thing you said then, but clearly you know much better this time round. How buggered are we going to be? Do you think we can scrape a draw or two before mid-May?

[ALWAYS_SFC]

I am far from happy about the result and performances but lets have some perspective. We have been spoiled over the last 5-6 years. and have over performed over the last 3. Yep we are in a slump but ive seen another in a number of performances which i believe show we can not only start picking up results again but can play exciting attacking football.

 

I really don't know what people who are complaining about the perceived 'lack of ambition' from the board really expect. We aren't a top 6 club, we will always struggle to keep our top players if they are performing well.

 

Name me a team who have successfully kept its stars after interest from one of the top clubs has been shown? Look at the likes of Leicster, they have given Vardy, marhez new contracts and both are a shadow or the players they were past year. Even they couldn't keep their player of the season (Kante) and Leicester are now in a relegation battle. Wet brom refused to sell Berahino and 2 seasons later his career is in tatters and will go on a free in the summer (He was a £25m player 2 years ago), West Ham- Payet could have gone after a great first season, has been poor this year after signing a mega contract

 

 

The board always get top money for them when they are sold and they do dig thier heels in and get another season from them when we need to (Morgan, Victor, Pelle etc)

Its the way of the world when the bigger boys come calling we will always have to sell eventually. On the the whole they have always recruited well

 

The board have got it right alot more than they have got it wrong in recent years and for that they deserve allot more patient and faith than is been shown by most of the clowns on this forum. Most seem to want us to spend money for the sake of spending money. The Same people who were probably moaning that we didn't sign Zaza in the summer

 

Very good and sensible post but the highlighted word is rarely put in practice or understood by the lynch mob on here

[Mosin]

I am far from happy about the result and performances but lets have some perspective. We have been spoiled over the last 5-6 years. and have over performed over the last 3. Yep we are in a slump but ive seen another in a number of performances which i believe show we can not only start picking up results again but can play exciting attacking football.

 

I really don't know what people who are complaining about the perceived 'lack of ambition' from the board really expect. We aren't a top 6 club, we will always struggle to keep our top players if they are performing well.

 

Name me a team who have successfully kept its stars after interest from one of the top clubs has been shown? Look at the likes of Leicster, they have given Vardy, marhez new contracts and both are a shadow or the players they were past year. Even they couldn't keep their player of the season (Kante) and Leicester are now in a relegation battle. Wet brom refused to sell Berahino and 2 seasons later his career is in tatters and will go on a free in the summer (He was a £25m player 2 years ago), West Ham- Payet could have gone after a great first season, has been poor this year after signing a mega contract

 

 

The board always get top money for them when they are sold and they do dig thier heels in and get another season from them when we need to (Morgan, Victor, Pelle etc)

Its the way of the world when the bigger boys come calling we will always have to sell eventually. On the the whole they have always recruited well

 

The board have got it right alot more than they have got it wrong in recent years and for that they deserve allot more patient and faith than is been shown by most of the clowns on this forum. Most seem to want us to spend money for the sake of spending money. The Same people who were probably moaning that we didn't sign Zaza in the summer

 

 

You do know Vardy, Mahrez and slimani have scored more goals between them than we have all season right? and are sitting just 3 points behind us in the league? so if they are in a relegation fight, we must be too, but i know what forward line i would rather have or what tactics i would rather are team be playing, and it is not like they are out of europe, i mean only through to the knock out stages of the champions league, we couldnt even manage to finish 2nd in a group we was far far favs for against some very very poor teams in the Europa league, but as you said, lets have some perspective, they will stil finish higher than we will by end of season and least there fans are happy at the performance's of the team, same cant be said for Saints.

 

Just for the record, i dont want us to buy any one, i just want are manager to inspire confidence both on and off the field, has us playing exciting football with more than 2 shots on target a game ( honestly that is not much to ask is it? )

 

As for Berahino, This is the stand we should take when are want away players try force a move, let them rott... bad buisness yeah, but least West brom dont have a queue of players waiting to leave, and dont try say they have a rubbish team, after all they beat us quite easy........

[VectisSaint]

This time last year you were predicting that we would only win one more game in the season, meaning Newcastle would overtake us and we would be relegated because 40 points wouldn't be enough to stay up, as it was one of those seasons where 40 wouldn't be enough to stay up.

 

In fairness, you were only spectacularly wrong about every single thing you said then, but clearly you know much better this time round. How buggered are we going to be? Do you think we can scrape a draw or two before mid-May?

 

**** me you continue to be pathetic who cannot deal with speculation and what if scenarios. Why you continue to highlight what a thick s**t you are God only knows.

[Greenridge]

Jordi Clasie £5.8K p/w at Feyenoord, £40K at Southampton. There's your reason he's here, nothing to do with 'shop window'.

 

I don't doubt that some came here as a stepping stone, in fact I'm sure they did but to use this to justify all those names you've given? Sorry.

[ErwinK1961]

You do know Vardy, Mahrez and slimani have scored more goals between them than we have all season right? and are sitting just 3 points behind us in the league? so if they are in a relegation fight, we must be too, but i know what forward line i would rather have or what tactics i would rather are team be playing, and it is not like they are out of europe, i mean only through to the knock out stages of the champions league, we couldnt even manage to finish 2nd in a group we was far far favs for against some very very poor teams in the Europa league, but as you said, lets have some perspective, they will stil finish higher than we will by end of season and least there fans are happy at the performance's of the team, same cant be said for Saints.

 

Just for the record, i dont want us to buy any one, i just want are manager to inspire confidence both on and off the field, has us playing exciting football with more than 2 shots on target a game ( honestly that is not much to ask is it? )

 

As for Berahino, This is the stand we should take when are want away players try force a move, let them rott... bad buisness yeah, but least West brom dont have a queue of players waiting to leave, and dont try say they have a rubbish team, after all they beat us quite easy........[/QUOTE]

 

Staggering.

[shurlock]

Jordi Clasie £5.8K p/w at Feyenoord, £40K at Southampton. There's your reason he's here, nothing to do with 'shop window'.

 

I don't doubt that some came here as a stepping stone, in fact I'm sure they did but to use this to justify all those names you've given? Sorry.

 

Agree.

 

On one level, the argument is utterly vacuous. Name me a (young) footballer who doesn't want to climb to the top of his profession and play for a top club. By default, unless you're at the top of the foodchain, every club is a stepping stone. But that ambition is a vague one. In the here and now players move because they earn more money, play at a more competitive level or restart their career (we seem to like to take punts on players who've come through prestigious academies but not quite made it).

 

The stepping stone argument, if it is not to become a banal truism, only makes sense when a player has had real interest from bigger clubs; but has decided to trade that off for opportunities for regular football. The Clyne signing might be an example of that (contrast that with the trajectory of Zaha's career).

Edited 4 January, 2017 by shurlock

[lobbster]

perfectly sums up the problem a lot of our fans have.... delusions of grander and no PERSPECTIVE

 

'Couldn't finish 2nd in a group we were we was far far favs for' So now we are better than Milan and Champions league regulars Sparta Prague? Deluded!

 

If the club adopted your business model of 'letting them rott' we would already be playing championship football. Nothing good comes of making a player stay why can people see that?

 

Why cant you see that its the clubs model and decisions that have got us to where we are in a ridiculously short pace of time? I guess you believe these things just happen. Be leave it or not we are the envy of the the majority of teams and are perceived as a well run club that go about things the right way, with great academy, good scouting etc

 

Again I agree things need to improve but people wanting the board to sell the club and the manger to go after a few bad results are embarrassing and coming across as spoilt children.

 

I don't remember this anger towards the manager after Koeman failing to get us into Europe (against genuine european minows!), the awful run he had in November/ December and a 6-1 hammering in a league cup 1/4 final. Short memory's

[Mowgli]

There is nothing to 'misunderstand'. The question is whether or not it is palatable to the fan base. How many of us enjoy seeing those we have groomed go on to do much better than we are? How many of us at this point in time care so much about the fact that we went into liquidation in view of the situation with which we are now faced? The point about this is that those who still hark on about that come across as the type of person who lost their first love when they were 13, will never find the same again and now, aged 75 still go on about it. Or those who blather on about a questionable world cup win in 1966. Consign it to history.

 

Saints fans, at least those who saw the team back in the Dell days can remember some extremely good football. They can remember a team that could, on its day, play scintillating football and destroy the opposition and they can remember a team that had a form of pride in what it was and a club that had a certain feel to it.

 

 

Oh the irony...

 

You could have saved yourself typing by just saying if you don't agree with me you're not a proper fan FFS.

 

I was there at the Dell. For many years. And your memory is deceiving you. As today, we beat some of the best teams. We lost to some of the worst teams. We played good football. We played dross. We had players passing through on their way to better clubs. We had donkeys. Occasionally some outstanding loyalty. We are Southampton. We take the good with the bad and choose to remember the good.

 

We're in a bad run. We'll get through it.

[Mosin]

perfectly sums up the problem a lot of our fans have.... delusions of grander and no PERSPECTIVE

 

'Couldn't finish 2nd in a group we were we was far far favs for' So now we are better than Milan and Champions league regulars Sparta Prague? Deluded!

 

If the club adopted your business model of 'letting them rott' we would already be playing championship football. Nothing good comes of making a player stay why can people see that?

 

Why cant you see that its the clubs model and decisions that have got us to where we are in a ridiculously short pace of time? I guess you believe these things just happen. Be leave it or not we are the envy of the the majority of teams and are perceived as a well run club that go about things the right way, with great academy, good scouting etc

 

Again I agree things need to improve but people wanting the board to sell the club and the manger to go after a few bad results are embarrassing and coming across as spoilt children.

 

I don't remember this anger towards the manager after Koeman failing to get us into Europe (against genuine european minows!), the awful run he had in November/ December and a 6-1 hammering in a league cup 1/4 final. Short memory's

 

you trying to say west brom are a poorly run club? how do you figure that considering they are the only club in the midlands to make profit last few years with out selling top stars have a less income than Saints, and laid out more on transfers than Saints ( Remember we have in theory spent 0 on transfers as we always end the transfer window in profit from Sales ).

 

I dont want the club to sack the manager, would rather he stayed and proved to be a good manager, but if i am dissapointed in the way we are playing then frustrations are going to show, and as it seems we have a few players who are also unhappy with the managers style, tactics and resting or what ever it seems fans are not the only ones concerned?, Never in a million years woud i want KL to sell the club, but, if she does not want the club, then its best she sells to the right buyer which i know she will try her best to do.

 

as you seem to think selling are best players every year to make a profit is good, remind us how we got relegated to championship? was it from selling are best players? yep, did we need to? yep, are we in the same situation now? Yep, so what has really changed from Saints in 15 years? nothing, we got relegated and got back to where we belong, trying to say any other owners would not have managed this with one of the best acadamys ( Take note some of are best players had been brought through the youth before ML took over the club ( EG Lallana, Bale, Walcott and list is quite big tbh ) in the UK is daft, remember we have been producing top players for a long long time, before ML even thought about buying a football club.....

 

We was the favs to win are group, i know cause i placed a bet on it as we was favs to win the group just like we was favs to win every single home game, and was expected to win or draw away from home, are hardest game was against sparta, are easiest game was meant to be H beer sheva and the biggest fixture was inter and they are hardly a force in todays game, if any thing they are a shadow of the club they used to be, which was said during the build up to are first game against them, Inter are no longer a force in Europe.

 

If leaving a player in the reserves will make a club go into the championship, then explain how this has not happened to United, Gunners, Liverpool, City, Chelsea, West brom, Stoke, infact nearlly all teams have had some one forced to stay once they have handed in transfer requests / asking to leave, every club has held a player when they wish to leave, we do it, Morgan, we forced him to stay for an extra year, Wanyama, Forced to stay, are we in the championship? no.......... are you smoking some thing? can i have some?

 

Saints v H Beer Sheva was the first time ever to win on English soil, who did they beat? Saints, in all the history of football, first time they won on English soil, even though they have been playing loads of friendly againts Championship clubs, League 1 clubs in the last few years, we are the first to lose on home soil to them, Congratulations, really? come on...... We was favs and you know it other wise Fans (Like you and me ) would not have been so annoyed at not getting into the next round? and remind me. where did milan finish? 4th bottem of the group?...... yeah they where so favs to win it by miles cause there rich history means so much, they finished bottom, but where the best team in the group, great logic right there .

 

We did then and are still playing poorly and under performing, any one who says differently are wearing rose tinted glasses.

[Mosin]

i know we are better run than we was when we got relegated, but most of are income comes from selling players and tv money, if Lowe had the same resources, would it have happened if he had 100 + million tv money? dont think it would have, i dont hold nothing aginats current owner and im greatfull they took over the club and brought us back to where we are now, but to suggest no other owner could do so, go and ask Bmouth how they managed league 2 to prem in just a little longer than we did ( with out huge investment ) and try tell me are owners are some how miles better than any one else's.

[Fan The Flames]

Our not are

[Crab Lungs]

We're almost a real life Football Manager save. Thing is, the policy of buy low, sell high works most of the time on the game but it can be seriously destabilising in the real world.

 

I was kind of expecting a low key season so I'm not too perturbed but I think it's the manner of the displays which concerns me the most. Anyway, I'm not paid to make the big decisions at the club but I do believe we're headed towards a crossroads - if we're not already at them now.

 

What do the club want to do? Stick to the plan or revise it? I guess we'll find out in time

[OldNick]

Do you really think that Leicester's success was due to an honours obsessed policy? The Leicester win will be offered up in moronic arguements for years to come.

it is a fact thoug, so they did have an honours policy ( not obsessed) as it actually happened. Not the 'we are going to be in the CL' and then go and sell the quality you have to get you there.

[CB Fry]

it is a fact thoug, so they did have an honours policy ( not obsessed) as it actually happened. Not the 'we are going to be in the CL' and then go and sell the quality you have to get you there.

Leicester did not have a policy to win the league.