Puel - In or Out?

[baggytrousers]

Eric Black for me is the issue here.

 

I'm sticking my neck out a bit, but we have Eric Black, that has come from a club as toxic as Villa was

to here...and let's face it, I'm being extremely candid here, he shouldn't be here.

 

When there was talk of Black coming, it was brushed off by pretty much everyone I know, NOBODY believed

it would happen, I'm TOLD the players themselves only found out about Black 2 days before the guy arrived.

 

(at the club, not before it was announced).

 

Nobody knew.

 

And it was a shock then and it's still hard to wire together now, the guy wasn't massively

liked at Villa to start with, which was not footballs biggest secret.

 

I think, and I say this as a fan, equally disappointed, even p**ssed off with what's happened, but I just think,

if we take Black out of the picture and let Puel do his thing and then see.

 

For me, I just look at Villa last season and I look at us now, there isn't a great deal of difference,

with one common denominator.

 

Puel might not speak with the greatest clarity but he is fluent enough, which was as I understand it, the motivating

factor and logic behind Black being recruited.

 

He should have gone with the recent scandle and it was "nailed on" that he was gone.

 

For me, I think it was a HUGE gamble bringing in Black.

 

It really was. It was a massive gamble.

 

Thanks for that post. Very interesting.

 

I must admit to being a bit concerned about Black's appointment myself when it happened. Puel has a good reputation within the game but Black ? Not so much I fear.

 

If he genuinely is the problem then the club ought to get rid now and get someone in who compliments Puel better.

 

I still believe Puel is a good coach but am a little concerned by our inconsistency and some lacklustre performances of late.

 

We badly need to get some momentum back as I believe we have the makings of a talented squad who could go a long way with a bit of confidence and a fair wind.

[JRM]

I think the biggest indicator that the fan base are not behind him are the pitiful ticket sales for the Liverpool semi final, what should be one of the biggest games of our recent history has not captured the imagination, mainly because no one believes we've got a chance of progressing.

 

I don't blame Puel completely though, I think Black was a strange appointment and certain players are not pulling their weight. Forster looks like a table football goalkeeper at the moment.

[Heisenberg]

Agree Eric Black was an odd appointment too.... But cheap no doubt

 

Again how does he get the job? No history of ever working with Puel so unlikely Puel hand picked him?

 

Awful CV including being John Barnes no.2 at Celtic a period still ridiculed here in Glasgow. Then short spells at lower league clubs - does nothing impressive.

Then apoointed Villa no.2 and villa are relegated after 25 years in the top flight

 

I think Reeds only motivation was cost surely?

[Wade Garrett]

Eric Black for me is the issue here.

 

I'm sticking my neck out a bit, but we have Eric Black, that has come from a club as toxic as Villa was

to here...and let's face it, I'm being extremely candid here, he shouldn't be here.

 

When there was talk of Black coming, it was brushed off by pretty much everyone I know, NOBODY believed

it would happen, I'm TOLD the players themselves only found out about Black 2 days before the guy arrived.

 

(at the club, not before it was announced).

 

Nobody knew.

 

And it was a shock then and it's still hard to wire together now, the guy wasn't massively

liked at Villa to start with, which was not footballs biggest secret.

 

I think, and I say this as a fan, equally disappointed, even p**ssed off with what's happened, but I just think,

if we take Black out of the picture and let Puel do his thing and then see.

 

For me, I just look at Villa last season and I look at us now, there isn't a great deal of difference,

with one common denominator.

 

Puel might not speak with the greatest clarity but he is fluent enough, which was as I understand it, the motivating

factor and logic behind Black being recruited.

 

He should have gone with the recent scandle and it was "nailed on" that he was gone.

 

For me, I think it was a HUGE gamble bringing in Black.

 

It really was. It was a massive gamble.

 

So it's not the manager, it's down to the bloke who puts the cones out for training.

 

Laughable.

[Maggie May]

Told you

[James]

If we were guaranteed to get someone better in then I'd be in the "out" camp but I'm not sure who is out there. Whilst I don't want the instability of changing the manager I'm not sure I can put up with watching us much longer. The football being served up is just awful and boring to watch. Surely even the staunch defenders of Puel have to admit our style is not enjoyable to watch? I don't really buy the arguments in favour of rotation either, some is fine but not over half the outfield team and certainly not 3/4 defenders. That's just poor management. Also, if rotation is so important then how come Virgil and Romeu play every game but the others can't?

 

Would be tempted to give Rowett a chance as his Brum teams played some decent stuff but would probably be too big a game Le.

[Bstokesaint]

Puel is the boards perfect man. He's doesn't rock the boat and will do enough to keep us away from the relegation zone. Bring another manager in and they will demand that the fonte situation is sorted, want a top striker signed and no players sold in January. That's not the les reed way.....

[IOWSaintDaz]

Agree Eric Black was an odd appointment too.... But cheap no doubt

 

Again how does he get the job? No history of ever working with Puel so unlikely Puel hand picked him?

 

Awful CV including being John Barnes no.2 at Celtic a period still ridiculed here in Glasgow. Then short spells at lower league clubs - does nothing impressive.

Then apoointed Villa no.2 and villa are relegated after 25 years in the top flight

 

I think Reeds only motivation was cost surely?

 

Eric Black is a fluent speaker in french apparently and Puel knows him from his time playing for Monaco in the french league in the late 80's early 90's while Black was a player for Metz

[Mr X]

I cant watch his interviews.

Do you notice how many times he uses the words "important" & "possiblities" literally every other word is an important or a possibility...... He droans on & on about how important it is for us to do this & that & then next game does nothing that he said was important! & We go back to being dull & predictable

 

1) get ball to halfway line

2) Pass ball sideways to a teammate

3) teammate must always then pass back to defence & keeper

4) repeat step 1

 

This has been our play all season

 

 

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[adrian lord]

Do you notice how many times he uses the words "important" & "possiblities" literally every other word is an important or a possibility...... He droans on & on

 

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Those 2 words are just oratorical tics he employs to disguise a lack of articulacy in English. It is becoming embarrassing after all these months.

[Wade Garrett]

Do you notice how many times he uses the words "important" & "possiblities" literally every other word is an important or a possibility...... He droans on & on about how important it is for us to do this & that & then next game does nothing that he said was important! & We go back to being dull & predictable

 

1) get ball to halfway line

2) Pass ball sideways to a teammate

3) teammate must always then pass back to defence & keeper

4) repeat step 1

 

This has been our play all season

 

 

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Strachan labelled this style of play as 'propaganda football'.

 

Aside from what we do when we have the ball, we are a worse team now when we don't have the ball. Very little pressing.

[Fitzhugh Fella]

Eric Black is a fluent speaker in french apparently and Puel knows him from his time playing for Monaco in the french league in the late 80's early 90's while Black was a player for Metz

 

Which is why it made sense to appoint him plus he would have contacts and knowledge within the British game which Puel would not. I think his appointment to have been a sound one and to criticise him is a bit like blaming John Prescott for Tony Blair's mistakes.

 

There is no point calling for Puel's head, we must stick with him for at least the rest of this season and give him money in January - he deserves that at least but he needs to buck his ideas up and try at least to up his interviewing technique - it is so painful listening to him, it's like finger nails on a blackboard.

[Harry_SFC]

I'm not exactly in the Puel out camp yet but a few more poor results/performances and that'll be it for me. I'm not enjoying our football under him one bit. We don't seem to get midfielders into the area, the build up play is slow and predictable, other than Boufal none of our players seem to be taking risks. The tactics are so negative it seems like he is holding the players back. Apart from Romeu I cannot think of another player who has improved under Puel. Switching 3 of the back 4 is a complete recipe for disaster - no other team would do that and I can't see any benefits from it. Martina wouldn't get into my Sunday league side yet Puel still regularly uses him.

 

Why did he bring Jay Rod on yesterday and stick Long out on the wing where he is half as effective? Very odd decision indeed. Stick 2 up top ffs. His overall demeanour is dull and uninspiring and I think that is shown by our style of play and this is clearly translating to the players. A number of players just aren't performing at their levels - Forster doesn't look interested and Tadic has gone backwards extremely quickly. The only positives I can find is that we are still pretty solid defensively although we have made a few individual mistakes in the last two games which haven't helped. We are in a league cup semi-final (which I expect us to lose) and we aren't exactly in the worst position in the league currently. Let's see what January brings..

[Wade Garrett]

Which is why it made sense to appoint him plus he would have contacts and knowledge within the British game which Puel would not. I think his appointment to have been a sound one and to criticise him is a bit like blaming John Prescott for Tony Blair's mistakes.

 

There is no point calling for Puel's head, we must stick with him for at least the rest of this season and give him money in January - he deserves that at least but he needs to buck his ideas up and try at least to up his interviewing technique - it is so painful listening to him, it's like finger nails on a blackboard.

 

Once the players lose faith in the manager, there is only ever one outcome. Going to be a tedious second half of the season.

[Webby]

We'll see if the board have faith in this guy cos clearly we need to make a couple of signings regardless of anybody going out, so if the board have faith they'll back him with the old cheque book won't they.

 

Not doing so will say a lot imo.

[bpsaint]

Wish people would stop making it seem that getting to the league cup semi final is some sort of miraculous achievement by Puel, when the reality is we beat a **** poor Palace side, needed a worldly by Boufal to beat an awful Sunderland, and beat a seriously weakened Arsenal, honestly look at their line up and subs for that match, it was borderline reserve team. 3 games to get to the semis, that's it. Now however we have a serious test against the same team that tore us a new one in this competition last year, and I don't see the result being much different.

[Batman]

any chance this poll can be re-opened and pinned as a sticky?

[ALWAYS_SFC]

any chance this poll can be re-opened and pinned as a sticky?

 

Why, have you not voted?

[Fabrice29]

Do you notice how many times he uses the words "important" & "possiblities" literally every other word is an important or a possibility...... He droans on & on about how important it is for us to do this & that & then next game does nothing that he said was important! & We go back to being dull & predictable

 

1) get ball to halfway line

2) Pass ball sideways to a teammate

3) teammate must always then pass back to defence & keeper

4) repeat step 1

 

This has been our play all season

 

 

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Nothing to do with playing with 10 men every week because our strikers are so non existent and ****. No coincidence that we've good most threatening this season with Austin up top who has some sort of ability to compete with defenders physically. Without a striker we lack an out ball when under pressure (Spurs) and we lack someone to hit when teams have figured out our only threat is our wide players. We also lack someone our midfield can use.

 

Honestly cant stress enough how non existent Rodriguez and Long are when playing. They offer nothing and when they do offer something it's because they've come so deep they're no longer a threat. We need someone to play off, someone to hold it up and bring our attacking players into the game, Pelle was excellent at bullying defenders, winning headers, chests and allowing the midfielders the chance to get close to him. Right now we don't keep the ball any longer than 2 passes if it goes over the half way line, that's why it comes back.

 

At times towards the end of yesterdays game both are going short to Boufal and Sims instead of being a threat in the box. Sims was the only player who competed for a header in the box second half. It's a joke how bad they are.

 

I'd go with Redmond, Tadic and Boufal/Sims tomorrow. Sack those two off, try something a little different for one game and get striker in asap. Then I feel we can judge Puel if we're still **** but at the moment he's hindered massively by playing without a striker.

[nta786]

Why, have you not voted?

 

what a stupid response.

 

A lot of us would love to know whether there has been a shift in the Puel in or out camp after 2 horrific home results.

 

On an aside, I've always been in the I don't care what type of football we play unless we get positive results, but this guy isn't getting us either

[Jonnyboy]

Give him until the end of the season. Then see.

[simo]

I voted in but if he is our manager next season I won't be forking out for a season ticket again to spend another season watching turgid football !

[saintant]

Isn't it time Puel conducted his interviews via an interpreter? His english is so poor and as a result it is almost impossible to tell what points he's trying to make so he could well be getting away with talking absolute nonsense - in fact, I'm almost sure he is!

[Heisenberg]

I think the club needs to swallow its pride and acknowledge Puel was a cost saving gamble too far

 

Then drive down to Bournemouth and persuade Eddie Howe to join us.

 

Its time we flexed our limited muscle and start taking talent from clubs like Palace, Swansea and Bournemouth

[Whitey Grandad]

I think the club needs to swallow its pride and acknowledge Puel was a cost saving gamble too far

 

Then drive down to Bournemouth and persuade Eddie Howe to join us.

 

Its time we flexed our limited muscle and start taking talent from clubs like Palace, Swansea and Bournemouth

 

Good idea. We've got 30 days to get it sorted.

[MarkSFC]

After yesterday's debacle of a game I'm now in the "need for a serious change" camp. This means of course that Puel (and his staff) must go. Having said that and although it couldn't happen, Puel strikes me as someone who is better suited to Development coaching, i.e. the U21s / U18s.

I was quite hopeful when we appointed him but never truly convinced by what I read about him despite all the connections to some excellent players. Our football has gone from basically having one plan under Koeman and playing counter-attack football with Mane and Long, to a very slow paced, controlled and almost routine method. It's very boring. When Romeu is not at his very best then we become vulnerable and there is no one else who can do the role, we need to get back to a more 4-2-3-1 type of formation and move the ball much quicker. I'm not convince don't the Puel will do this and will rely on being in a "comfortable" league position to see the season out - very boringly.

The only credit I would give him is his integration of more youngsters and the fact that even with the many changes he makes virtually every game (understandable to some extent but overall probably too many too often) has meant that the levels are very similar regardless of the team selected. But it's just not good enough.

The question exists though, who to get instead and the main candidate I would like is working 35 miles down the road, the other inNewcastle. Both wouldn't leave mid-season and only Howe is realistic for us now.

Les Reed as good as he has been has banged on about our succession planning......maybe now is the time for his successor to come aboard....

[saintroyt]

Really feel it should reed in or out if a business employees the best available and then shackles them who's fault is it?

After yesterday's debacle of a game I'm now in the "need for a serious change" camp. This means of course that Puel (and his staff) must go. Having said that and although it couldn't happen, Puel strikes me as someone who is better suited to Development coaching, i.e. the U21s / U18s.

I was quite hopeful when we appointed him but never truly convinced by what I read about him despite all the connections to some excellent players. Our football has gone from basically having one plan under Koeman and playing counter-attack football with Mane and Long, to a very slow paced, controlled and almost routine method. It's very boring. When Romeu is not at his very best then we become vulnerable and there is no one else who can do the role, we need to get back to a more 4-2-3-1 type of formation and move the ball much quicker. I'm not convince don't the Puel will do this and will rely on being in a "comfortable" league position to see the season out - very boringly.

The only credit I would give him is his integration of more youngsters and the fact that even with the many changes he makes virtually every game (understandable to some extent but overall probably too many too often) has meant that the levels are very similar regardless of the team selected. But it's just not good enough.

The question exists though, who to get instead and the main candidate I would like is working 35 miles down the road, the other inNewcastle. Both wouldn't leave mid-season and only Howe is realistic for us now.

Les Reed as good as he has been has banged on about our succession planning......maybe now is the time for his successor to come aboard....

[Saints4everChris]

What do people expect? We're doing fine in the Premier League, semi-finals of the cup, how anyone thinks Puel is doing badly is beyond me. We are not Barcelona, some people writing here are totally unrealistic in what they expect a club like Saints to achieve. We will always be a stepping stone to bigger and better things and I would much prefer us to achieve what we have done over the last three years and maintain that level than risk all by overspending, breaking wage structures and changing managers that really don't need to be changed. Stability is the key........

[Batman]

What do people expect? We're doing fine in the Premier League, semi-finals of the cup, how anyone thinks Puel is doing badly is beyond me. We are not Barcelona, some people writing here are totally unrealistic in what they expect a club like Saints to achieve. We will always be a stepping stone to bigger and better things and I would much prefer us to achieve what we have done over the last three years and maintain that level than risk all by overspending, breaking wage structures and changing managers that really don't need to be changed. Stability is the key........

one thing the success since the Leibher's took over hangs on is .......... stability

 

[Matthew Le God]

After 19 games...

 

Koeman 2015/16 = 12th

Puel 2016/17 = 9th & a League Cup semi final

[trousers]

After 19 games...

 

Koeman 2015/16 = 12th

Puel 2016/17 = 9th & a League Cup semi final

Yes, but all that's academic as there's zero possibility of emulating the performances of the second half of last season...

[Lord Duckhunter]

Yes, but all that's academic as there's zero possibility of emulating the performances of the second half of last season...

 

So we get rid of him based on future results?

 

 

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[S-Clarke]

So we get rid of him based on future results?

 

 

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He didn’t say that at all, did he? It’s just that people cannot really use ‘’this season we’re 9^th at this stage’’!! as a reason to suggest we’re doing better. We’re doing no better than we did at this same stage last year, and to get us to this stage last year we just went through 1 win in 10.

It’s best to wait until the end of the season before comparing anything with last season.

[Heisenberg]

He didn’t say that at all, did he? It’s just that people cannot really use ‘’this season we’re 9^th at this stage’’!! as a reason to suggest we’re doing better. We’re doing no better than we did at this same stage last year, and to get us to this stage last year we just went through 1 win in 10.

It’s best to wait until the end of the season before comparing anything with last season.

 

Comparisons to last season will dry up very soon

 

Think we were W12 D3 L3 after week 20 - zero chance we will match that under Puel

[Lord Duckhunter]

It’s best to wait until the end of the season before comparing anything with last season.

 

So if somebody posts that "we've gone backwards" you can't use the fact that were higher in the league than this time last season to disprove that. Perhaps you should tell the "we've gone backwards" brigade ,to wait until the end of the season , rather than the people pointing out the inconvenient fact that we haven't if you use league placing or cup run as a measure. I know the measure they want to use is their opinion, but that's subjective.

 

 

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Edited 1 January, 2017 by Lord Duckhunter

[LGTL]

After 19 games...

 

Koeman 2015/16 = 12th

Puel 2016/17 = 9th & a League Cup semi final

 

Quite possibly the most ridiculous justification of a poor campaign so far.

[Lord Duckhunter]

Quite possibly the most ridiculous justification of a poor campaign so far.

 

What, league position? I can't think of a better one to judge how a teams getting on.

 

What should we use, your opinion?

 

 

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[simo]

Am I the only one who isn't massively bothered about league position at this stage ? It's the type of football and some of the performances that are killing me like someone else has said he's more worried about getting hit on the counter attack than he is our own attack !

[Saint Billy]

So if somebody posts that "we've gone backwards" you can't use the fact that were higher in the league than this time last season to disprove that. Perhaps you should tell the "we've gone backwards" brigade ,to wait until the end of the season , rather than the people pointing out the inconvenient fact that we haven't if you use league placing or cup run as a measure. I know the measure they want to use is their opinion, but that's subjective.

 

 

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You base it on how we are playing, the quality of the side, injuries, players form, future plans to strengthen the team, and most importantly, whether or not you think the manager has the ability to change things around.

[landford.saint]

Bored rigid....

We have gone from a team that last season on our day could give any team in the league a good game, to a team that can't even give West Brom a good game.

Slow, boring, predictable, negative football. That is easy to defend against.

Where are the 16 points we need to save us from relegation coming from, if we lose to The Baggies at home...

Had 3 very easy games to get us to a semi- final that a lot of people are not bothering to attend, because they know the first decent team we will meet in this cup, will rip us a new one.

Puel has taken a quick, counter attacking, threatening team, and turned it into a lethargic one dimension turgid @@@@@.

[LGTL]

What, league position? I can't think of a better one to judge how a teams getting on.

 

What should we use, your opinion?

 

 

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I look forward to us finishing 6th come May then, with 63 points and a +18 goal difference.

 

If anyone thinks this has been a positive campaign so far, on a par with last season, then they are blind.

[Fitzhugh Fella]

What do people expect? We're doing fine in the Premier League, semi-finals of the cup, how anyone thinks Puel is doing badly is beyond me. We are not Barcelona, some people writing here are totally unrealistic in what they expect a club like Saints to achieve. We will always be a stepping stone to bigger and better things and I would much prefer us to achieve what we have done over the last three years and maintain that level than risk all by overspending, breaking wage structures and changing managers that really don't need to be changed. Stability is the key........

Ostrich

[Pat from Poole]

After 19 games...

 

Koeman 2015/16 = 12th

Puel 2016/17 = 9th & a League Cup semi final

 

I bet you do great Powerpoint presentations.

[danjosaint]

Fair play to Swansea for seeing the problem and rectifying early if only that egomaniac Les had the balls to admit he made the wrong appointment

[Whitey Grandad]

Am I the only one who isn't massively bothered about league position at this stage ? It's the type of football and some of the performances that are killing me like someone else has said he's more worried about getting hit on the counter attack than he is our own attack !

 

You're not alone.

[MarkSFC]

Getting rid of Puel yesterday or today would of been tough given the game tomorrow but then we basically have 10 days until the thrashing by Liverpool and two weeks until the next Prem game. It's the start of the window too so tomorrow night, Tuesday morning will be the best time to get rid.

[Lord Duckhunter]

I look forward to us finishing 6th come May then, with 63 points and a +18 goal difference.

 

If anyone thinks this has been a positive campaign so far, on a par with last season, then they are blind.

 

Anyone who thinks that without mane , Vic & Pelle we are as good a squad as last season is deluded. Puel didn't sell them, so it's not really his fault. Even the blind can see Puel has been given a worse set of players than Ron had. To be in a similar position after half the season is a pretty decent achievement. You Puel out clowns don't seem to acknowledge that.

 

 

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[LGTL]

Anyone who thinks that without mane , Vic & Pelle we are as good a squad as last season is deluded. Puel didn't sell them, so it's not really his fault. Even the blind can see Puel has been given a worse set of players than Ron had. To be in a similar position after half the season is a pretty decent achievement. You Puel out clowns don't seem to acknowledge that.

 

 

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Except i'm actually 'Puel in' for the moment.

 

Comparisons with last season are pathetic, which was the original point I was making, and you seem to now agree with me. So thanks.

[Whitey Grandad]

Anyone who thinks that without mane , Vic & Pelle we are as good a squad as last season is deluded. Puel didn't sell them, so it's not really his fault. Even the blind can see Puel has been given a worse set of players than Ron had. To be in a similar position after half the season is a pretty decent achievement. You Puel out clowns don't seem to acknowledge that.

 

 

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It's not a matter of the quality of the players, it's the style of play. There are plenty of teams in much lower divisions who play with more spirit, verve and cohesion than I have seen all season.

[kermitsaint]

Anyone who thinks that without mane , Vic & Pelle we are as good a squad as last season is deluded. Puel didn't sell them, so it's not really his fault. Even the blind can see Puel has been given a worse set of players than Ron had. To be in a similar position after half the season is a pretty decent achievement. You Puel out clowns don't seem to acknowledge that.

 

 

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Yet when Koeman was at this point last season he also wasn't deemed to be a success .

The Puel In brigade love ignoring that part .

 

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