Lighthouse Posted 19 December, 2016 Share Posted 19 December, 2016 For all the talk of goal scorers, Austin's injury and J Rod's fitness issues there is another elephant in the room. Long hasn't scored this season and aside from last year has never been much more than a 5 or 6 goal a year man. People say he's not 'that kind of player', whatever that means but I'm not really sure what he offers. Redmond, Boufal, J Rod and Sims all offer decent movement upfront. What we lack is a physical Lambert, Pelle, Beattie type of forward. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lallana's Left Peg Posted 19 December, 2016 Share Posted 19 December, 2016 I'm not a fan of strikers who don't score goals but if other parts of the team are scoring then what Long brings to the table is very valuable. But if he has to score goals as others aren't then it really brings into focus his weaknesses. As this point - with a brand new deal inked only 6 months ago it doesn't make sense to move him on. At the very least I am glad he is an option off the bench. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heisenberg Posted 19 December, 2016 Share Posted 19 December, 2016 Everton would take him - Koeman knew how to play to his strengthens Not sure he will be prolific ever but under Puels style he will struggle to score many - not a match imho Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunnery Posted 19 December, 2016 Share Posted 19 December, 2016 No, he's having a bad spell, it happens as we've seen with Jay Rod and Pelle and Mane etc. He may come good yet. Too early IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benjii Posted 19 December, 2016 Share Posted 19 December, 2016 No, he's a useful squad player and, I guess, a popular character and no one would want to spend much money on him apart from some sort of desperate relegation battler, so what's the point? And I doubt he would want to leave us for a worse team when he has a decent length of contract with us so we would have to force him out, which isn't good for the dressing room. So, in short, no. I agree he doesn't suit our style that well but we would be silly to actively look to sell him when we aren't exactly blessed with striking options right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doddisalegend Posted 19 December, 2016 Share Posted 19 December, 2016 I think its a bit early to be suggesting that Jrod is back and Long is surplus to requirements. Long only came good last season after getting a run in the team, something he hasn't really had this season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colinjb Posted 19 December, 2016 Share Posted 19 December, 2016 Absolutely not. We should not deal with our shortage up front by selling an international standard striker simply because he is off-form. If Jay can return to form and fitness then Long has every chance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Troy Posted 19 December, 2016 Share Posted 19 December, 2016 in terms of the more physical presence i think that we may well see Sam Gallagher as the next in line and (given we are out of europe and 7th is likely best spot) there will be no point bringing someone in if Sam can come back from a year in the championship playing like he currently is. Who knows if thats right or if it will work but it fits in with the clear plan of getting youth through and the fact we talk to him after every game its clear we are pushing him heavily (im assuming we dont always do that with every loanee). Means we wont buy anyone like that and probably worth keeping long as he has good energy, is a good pro and if Jrod breaks down (i really hope not after his last few weeks) we'll need him Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperSAINT Posted 19 December, 2016 Share Posted 19 December, 2016 We could have just *bumped* Saint Charlie's classic thread from the past http://www.saintsweb.co.uk/showthread.php?55595-Sell-Long-in-January-to-reinvest&highlight=sell+long#.WFfaY_mzKg4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lighthouse Posted 19 December, 2016 Author Share Posted 19 December, 2016 Absolutely not. We should not deal with our shortage up front by selling an international standard striker simply because he is off-form. If Jay can return to form and fitness then Long has every chance. International is a bit of a loose term though isn't it. I think by some statistical comparisons, Stern John is the greatest international player of all time. All you're really saying is that he good enough to get into a squad with Kevin Doyle and Simon Cox. Also, what is form for Shane Long? In 5.5 years in the Prem he's only managed on average 7 goals a season. Even in the Championship he only managed double figures once. Rodriguez had been steadily improving right up until his injury and was a far better player than Long has ever been. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FriendlySaint Posted 19 December, 2016 Share Posted 19 December, 2016 No. just came from a stupid post of yours and now a stupid thread. We need Long to rotate with rodriguez and to be back up for Rodriguez. Football is a squad game I've got you comparing Mane and Rodriguez on another thread saying Rodriguez has 9 apps.... yeah 9 apps consisting of 320 total mins... the equivalent of 3 full games and 50 mins....using appearances to compare Mane and Rodriguez is ridiculously vague, this here is even stupider Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colinjb Posted 19 December, 2016 Share Posted 19 December, 2016 International is a bit of a loose term though isn't it. I think by some statistical comparisons, Stern John is the greatest international player of all time. All you're really saying is that he good enough to get into a squad with Kevin Doyle and Simon Cox. Also, what is form for Shane Long? In 5.5 years in the Prem he's only managed on average 7 goals a season. Even in the Championship he only managed double figures once. Rodriguez had been steadily improving right up until his injury and was a far better player than Long has ever been. Scoring a winning goal against the reigning world champions counts for me. Ignoring semantics about what international may constitute, I stand by my point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lighthouse Posted 19 December, 2016 Author Share Posted 19 December, 2016 (edited) No. just came from a stupid post of yours and now a stupid thread. We need Long to rotate with rodriguez and to be back up for Rodriguez. Football is a squad game I've got you comparing Mane and Rodriguez on another thread saying Rodriguez has 9 apps.... yeah 9 apps consisting of 320 total mins... the equivalent of 3 full games and 50 mins....using appearances to compare Mane and Rodriguez is ridiculously vague, this here is even stupider None of what I've posted is stupid, you've just clearly failed to grasp any of it. The Rodriguez/Mané comparison was a simple observation and a reality check for everyone asking where we'd be if we still had Mané. All you've done there is back up my point by proving J Rod spent less time on the pitch. We need somebody to rotate with J Rod but it needn't necessarily be Long. I'd rather have someone good because I personally fail to see what Long offers other than running. We don't play a high tempo, chasing game so him running around on his own doesn't really do much. Edited 19 December, 2016 by Lighthouse Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeteCampbell Posted 19 December, 2016 Share Posted 19 December, 2016 No way, he showed 2nd half of last season what he can do for us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faz Posted 19 December, 2016 Share Posted 19 December, 2016 For all the talk of goal scorers, Austin's injury and J Rod's fitness issues there is another elephant in the room. Long hasn't scored this season and aside from last year has never been much more than a 5 or 6 goal a year man. People say he's not 'that kind of player', whatever that means but I'm not really sure what he offers. Redmond, Boufal, J Rod and Sims all offer decent movement upfront. What we lack is a physical Lambert, Pelle, Beattie type of forward. Very clever. Bring out a "sell Shane Long" thread and, hey presto, his form improves and lifts us to a EL spot. Works every time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OttawaSaint Posted 19 December, 2016 Share Posted 19 December, 2016 Saying "sell him he doesn't fit Puel's tactics" is nonsense IMO. He's off form, he has missed several guilt edged chances already this season. That suggests he was in position to score, but didn't. He's low on confidence and had had a couple of injuries too. Hopefully JRod's new found confidence will rub off on him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dronskisaint Posted 19 December, 2016 Share Posted 19 December, 2016 No! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DT Posted 19 December, 2016 Share Posted 19 December, 2016 No. We need strikers, and he is a good one in terms of energy and workrate, if not hitting the net... Also good bloke to have around, morale-wise. Clearly much-liked. And how can we get rid of our singer? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maggie May Posted 19 December, 2016 Share Posted 19 December, 2016 He won't go. Missus is from the south and won't want to go up north again. He's happy here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sidney Fudpucker the 3rd Posted 20 December, 2016 Share Posted 20 December, 2016 I don't understand why he's not playing instead of Redmond??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wade Garrett Posted 20 December, 2016 Share Posted 20 December, 2016 Very decent player. His time will come. Would be stupid to sell him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5string Posted 20 December, 2016 Share Posted 20 December, 2016 No. He runs fast, so he wins the ball deep in enemy territory, which they don't like. He will score again. Keep him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SNSUN Posted 20 December, 2016 Share Posted 20 December, 2016 I don't understand why he's not playing instead of Redmond??? This. Similar pace but Long offers more at present. Redmond would be a better impact sub when opposition legs are tiring. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sammysaint Posted 20 December, 2016 Share Posted 20 December, 2016 Him and Jay Rod need to rotate, Austin is not back until late Feb so we need both here especially if we do make the league cup final or make it to the 5th round of the FA CUP. Long is a good striker who had a great goal scoring run last season but you have seen teams now defend better agaist pacey strikers with no strength and power, Vardy is even struggling, he needs a run like Jay Rod does to score goals, I would rather Jay Rod starts but have Long come off the bench every game for 20-25 mins and start the odd game. IMO Boufal Austin/Jad Rod and Tadic would be the best 3 we can have, but Redmond is Puels love child so he will want him involved every week, so I would not be surprised if it looks like Austin could come back early from his injury if Puel and Les then decided to sell Long at the end of Jan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dusic Posted 20 December, 2016 Share Posted 20 December, 2016 I don't understand why he's not playing instead of Redmond??? Because Redmond is playing as an attacking midfielder where he needs to be able to receive the ball in tight areas and keep posession and look to link with other players. That isn't Long's game. He was ****e as a wide player under Koeman. He is a striker who wants to run onto balls over the top in a direct system. We don't play like that which is why he doesn't start many games at the moment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nta786 Posted 21 December, 2016 Share Posted 21 December, 2016 Him and Jay Rod need to rotate, Austin is not back until late Feb so we need both here especially if we do make the league cup final or make it to the 5th round of the FA CUP. Long is a good striker who had a great goal scoring run last season but you have seen teams now defend better agaist pacey strikers with no strength and power, Vardy is even struggling, he needs a run like Jay Rod does to score goals, I would rather Jay Rod starts but have Long come off the bench every game for 20-25 mins and start the odd game. IMO Boufal Austin/Jad Rod and Tadic would be the best 3 we can have, but Redmond is Puels love child so he will want him involved every week, so I would not be surprised if it looks like Austin could come back early from his injury if Puel and Les then decided to sell Long at the end of Jan. Redmond isn't Puel's love child, but a player who will fetch a very very high price if he adds goals to his game. I reckon Reed almost forces Puel to play him- and the conversion to a striker in theory should increase his attempts at goal. Hence why we see Jay Rod and Redmond start more- just that English premium to it and homegrown status. That is my conspiracy anyway :lol: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DuncanRG Posted 21 December, 2016 Share Posted 21 December, 2016 What planet do you have to be on to suggest our best option right now is to SELL a striker? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Albert Posted 21 December, 2016 Share Posted 21 December, 2016 We're an injury to J-Rod away from Long becoming indispensable, so no we really should not sell him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super_Uwe Posted 21 December, 2016 Share Posted 21 December, 2016 Well whatever happens he's on course for a Beattie 99/00 season at the moment! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lighthouse Posted 21 December, 2016 Author Share Posted 21 December, 2016 What planet do you have to be on to suggest our best option right now is to SELL a striker? We're an injury to J-Rod away from Long becoming indispensable, so no we really should not sell him. Well, the implication was that we sign somebody better in his place. Long out, one in and another on loan to cover Austin's injury if need be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint IQ Posted 21 December, 2016 Share Posted 21 December, 2016 Sweet, this should been done a lot earlier to be honest. Last winter St Charlie posted something very similar and he went on that great goal scoring run. Come Shane kick the ball into the net! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Billy Posted 21 December, 2016 Share Posted 21 December, 2016 He will come good again, our current situation requires it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie Wayman Posted 21 December, 2016 Share Posted 21 December, 2016 Not a very sensible idea Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Give it to Ron Posted 24 December, 2016 Share Posted 24 December, 2016 He looked quite happy stocking up for Christmas last night in Costco. Lovely family. Was funny watching rumour go round store he was there. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Posted 24 December, 2016 Share Posted 24 December, 2016 I'd sell him. He's gone 0 goals in 21 and yet people talking about him Like he's a world beater. We need strikers yes, but not one that doesn't score. Granted he played well end of last season, but that was very much the exception to the rule with him looking at his goal scoring record. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chez Posted 24 December, 2016 Share Posted 24 December, 2016 We won't sell him. But if there was interest, what kind of figure would you be happy with? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint_clark Posted 24 December, 2016 Share Posted 24 December, 2016 We won't sell him. But if there was interest, what kind of figure would you be happy with? I think we'd take anything over £15million. Definitely not sell him for less than we paid, so anything between £12-15million only if we have someone lined up that we can get in for that amount. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lighthouse Posted 24 December, 2016 Author Share Posted 24 December, 2016 I think we'd take anything over £15million. Definitely not sell him for less than we paid, so anything between £12-15million only if we have someone lined up that we can get in for that amount. £15m?! For a player who turns 30 next month, has little to his game other than pace and doesn't score? Behave, I'd take £6m. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Give it to Ron Posted 24 December, 2016 Share Posted 24 December, 2016 £15m?! For a player who turns 30 next month, has little to his game other than pace and doesn't score? Behave, I'd take £6m. 6m for a proven Prem striker? Who could we buy for 6m you would swap for? Yes he has had an injury hit season but think your valuation is too low. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint_clark Posted 24 December, 2016 Share Posted 24 December, 2016 £15m?! For a player who turns 30 next month, has little to his game other than pace and doesn't score? Behave, I'd take £6m. You'd be surprised. A lot of clubs are still pretty thick when it comes to valuations - they go off form from a couple of years back, sometimes years and years. It's why you still see players well past their prime in their mid to late thirties getting clubs. We could get much more for him than you're saying purely off of last season performances, from a club lower down who are desperate for a striker. Palace or Swansea would be prime candidates. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Posted 24 December, 2016 Share Posted 24 December, 2016 6m for a proven Prem striker? Who could we buy for 6m you would swap for? Yes he has had an injury hit season but think your valuation is too low. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Proven. He's never scored many goals and has scored 0 in 21! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperSAINT Posted 24 December, 2016 Share Posted 24 December, 2016 We could get much more for him than you're saying purely off of last season performances, from a club lower down who are desperate for a striker. Palace or Swansea would be prime candidates. I think Swansea are desperate for a defence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Posted 24 December, 2016 Share Posted 24 December, 2016 6m for a proven Prem striker? Who could we buy for 6m you would swap for? Yes he has had an injury hit season but think your valuation is too low. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Proven. He's never scored many goals and has scored 0 in 21! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Give it to Ron Posted 24 December, 2016 Share Posted 24 December, 2016 (edited) Proven. He's never scored many goals and has scored 0 in 21! Yes how many seasons has he played in the Prem? How many goals did he score last season to get us into top 6 To add he has played for 4 teams in the Prem so yes in my eyes he is. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Edited 24 December, 2016 by Give it to Ron Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperSAINT Posted 31 December, 2016 Share Posted 31 December, 2016 http://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2016/12/31/west-ham-transfer-news-shane-long-brentfords-scott-hogan-alternative/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Viking Saint Posted 31 December, 2016 Share Posted 31 December, 2016 http://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2016/12/31/west-ham-transfer-news-shane-long-brentfords-scott-hogan-alternative/ Given how threadbare we are up front, I really can't see this happening unless we've got a replacement lined up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chez Posted 1 January, 2017 Share Posted 1 January, 2017 http://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2016/12/31/west-ham-transfer-news-shane-long-brentfords-scott-hogan-alternative/How long left on his contract? Feels like agent made news to me. By the way, Anyone seen Hogan? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shurlock Posted 1 January, 2017 Share Posted 1 January, 2017 Will always be a bang average player, even in the right system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperSAINT Posted 1 January, 2017 Share Posted 1 January, 2017 How long left on his contract? Feels like agent made news to me. By the way, Anyone seen Hogan? 6'5". Bright orange. 24" pythons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dusic Posted 1 January, 2017 Share Posted 1 January, 2017 http://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2016/12/31/west-ham-transfer-news-shane-long-brentfords-scott-hogan-alternative/ Just highlights how hard it is to find good strikers in January. Long is a poor player and would be a terrible signing for WH. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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